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Date Posted: 17:35:14 12/18/05 Sun
Author: Go...'gate
Subject: Re: Marist or Duquesne
In reply to: Coffee 's message, "Time to Debate Conference Membership Again!" on 10:44:43 11/19/05 Sat

I guess you could call me one of the 'elitist' posters on this board, but your point is well taken; if there is going to be an eighth team, Marist and Duquesne are among the options. However, I think the Johns Hopkins option is a possibility. I also think an approach should be made to VMI and Gettysburg. Whoever joins, it must be as an all-sports member which probably eliminates Duquesne

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[> [> If So... -- DFW HOYA, 20:28:19 12/18/05 Sun [1]

If all-sports membership is the driver, why hasn't American been pushed to add football, then?

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[> [> [> Re: If So... -- Go...'gate, 20:46:54 12/18/05 Sun [1]

Let's face it, if they don't have a program they don't have a program. Kind of like Colgate with Baseball (or Lafayette, Lehigh and Bucknell, Navy and American with Hockey). In general, I believe the PL is stressing the addition of all-sports members over one-sport affiliates.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Stony Brook going I-AA Independent as of 2007 -- Go...'gate, 16:06:13 04/10/06 Mon [1]

Seems to me this could create a reincarnation of the old Yankee Conference, with Stony Brook, URI, Albany, Maine, UNH and UMass (and possibly Northeastern and Hofstra). With the addition of Old Dominion and Georgia State to the CAA, IMHO, this is even more likely. This leaves Villanova in the lurch.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Stony Brook going I-AA Independent as of 2007 -- Lafalum, 07:21:21 04/11/06 Tue [1]

There are rumblings that RPI is about to go 1AA as well and is interested in te Patriot League. I would really like us to take another crack at Villanova,William and Mary and Richmond. Maybe Johns Hopkins as well??

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Intrigued by the RPI rumors... -- Go...'gate, 13:56:33 04/11/06 Tue [1]

Because they might be a very nice fit. Did you get this from any media source?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Intrigued by the RPI rumors... -- Lafalum, 23:18:42 04/11/06 Tue [1]

Heard it from an RPI alumnus

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: RPI is size - and - academically compatible -- Go...'gate, 14:41:38 04/12/06 Wed [1]

Their football history is consistent with most schools their size - they were a College Division program under the old NCAA designation and are now a very competitive Division III program with Division I ice hockey (in which they are VERY competitive).

In football, they play many NESCAC schools and are a member of the Liberty League, which is a pretty strong Division III conference though mostly public schools. RPI is also in the middle of a heavy-duty Strategic Plan for the whole school.

Hope your friend speaks for many RPI students/alumni!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: RPI is size - and - academically compatible -- lafalum, 15:02:08 04/12/06 Wed [1]

I actually wasn't aware of their Div 1 Hockey program.
My friend is pretty well connected to the school so....we'll see.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: RPI is size - and - academically compatible -- LUHawker, 15:56:41 04/12/06 Wed [1]

Nothing against RPI as an academic institution, but I hope they aren't invited to the PL. No rivalries exist that I can think of that would make RPI a value-added member. From a football standpoint, I think RPI detracts from the quality and interest of the league. Maybe they have a beautiful stadium or a big following in the upper Hudson Valley that I don't know about, but I just don't see the appeal. I'd rather be status quo than add a school like RPI.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: RPI is size - and - academically compatible -- UAalum72, 23:52:47 04/14/06 Fri [1]

RPI plays on a field with about 3,000 bleachers surrounded by academic buildings - tho there might be room to build a decent grandstand for their artificial-turf lacrosse field.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> cncYbDLKYKC -- odikfnmbxk (phDidRqrncUq), 23:34:33 03/01/11 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Status Quo?? -- DFW HOYA, 21:31:16 04/12/06 Wed [1]

Isn't "status quo" the PL motto? It seems that other than schools which really, really want to join (American, Georgetown football) there is little outward interest by the PL in adding any schools.

There are some solid Div. I candidates out there that, with some prodding to add or revive football, fit the PL model of academic and athletic excellence in the Northeastern footprint--Boston University is one example, Fairfield another.

There's a reason why Div. III schools don't go Div. I--they don't have to. I just can't expect to see Hopkins or RPI or Hobart making a move, but the PL has to be more aggressive in recruiting schools.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> agreed -- colgate13, 08:44:22 04/13/06 Thu [1]

If we want the PL to move and grow, we can't go with the status quo. Staying still in a market where people are moving means losing your ground.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: agreed -- KenZ, 14:25:37 04/13/06 Thu [1]

13, we already know we are in agreement that the PL has a great future. i don't recall ever hearing (seeing) your take on likely schools to be added to the mix. if you have already done so, humor me and provide your list of candidates again and the likelihood you would estimate on their joining.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> my opinion only -- colgate13, 15:56:49 04/13/06 Thu [1]

I don't think at this time there are ANY likely schools to be added. The PL IMO has to do three things:

1 - approve football scholarships
2 - improve our OOC and playoff records once we do so we become an attractive conference
3 - expand our success in basketball

Without doing any of that, I don't think we've got another member coming down the pike. Both of our opinions on the future of the PL hinge on at least 2 out of 3 of those things happening.

IF we approve football scholarships, we now can be a safe harbour for the break up of a conference like the CAA should the time come that they have too many members and tell the affiliates to go hiking. We also become an option for a team looking to ramp up from either D-III or nonscholarship I-AA.

Schools in the mix IMO: Richmond (80%), Villanova (50%), Marist (20%), Duquense (20%), Monmouth (20%), RPI (5%), John Hopkins (5%)

IF we approve scholarships AND start making serious noise OOC and in the post-season, we lose the 'safe harbour' status and instead now enjoy the possibility of just being a conference a school wants to associate with.

Schools in the mix IMO: Richmond (90%), Villanova (80%), VMI (60%)

IF we approve scholarships AND we get better in football AND we get better in basketball, well then, the sky is the limit. If the PL became a solid mid-major basketball conference, we could start having some very interesting conversations with schools to become FULL members in the PL. The list here? Who knows.

I personally think the PL is going to be fairly stable for the next 4-5 years or so. The key is that we increase the level of our play and make our league as attractive as possible for future opportunities. We missed Richmond this past summer because we don't offer scholarships. If we had made the decision to offer them at the same time we allowed other sports, IMO Richmond would be playing in the PL next fall.

We can't let that opportunity pass us by again.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: my opinion only -- Lafalum, 18:35:27 04/13/06 Thu [1]

You left out William and Mary. If Richmond were to come along with VMI wouldn't that be an attractive league for a Southern division with Navy American William and Mary and VMI. Maybe at that point a VCU and Hopkins could be inthe mix even though it doesn't excite our football fans.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> William and Mary is not an option -- colgate13, 19:30:53 04/13/06 Thu [1]

They are wedded to the CAA. They would only be an option if the state schools (JMU, Delaware) in the CAA decided on BCS football.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: my opinion only -- KenZ, 09:28:59 04/14/06 Fri [1]

thanks, and in my view a reasonable analysis.

the key is patience along with the key improvements you cited. i hope we don't jump to quick just to expand.

you know football better than i, but the conference objectives can only be met by improving both the product and the perception.

on the basketball front, i am confident in continued significant improvement of the league as a whole. the question is where we settle in. mid teens, which is a solid mid-major is almost a given in my book, and possibly a few notches higher than that.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Stony Brook going I-AA Independent as of 2007 -- LUEngineer, 22:21:34 04/24/06 Mon [1]

If RPI were to make a serious commitment to Division 1 sports then they would be a very good fit with the league. They are a quality academic institution ranked only slightly behind Lehigh in the top tier of US News. They have a very similar academic profile with the PL schools and geographically fit well.

The other Division III school that fits the League is Johns Hopkins and new Lafayette President has some pull at that institution. Other than those two schools, I agree with Lafalum that continual solicitation of Richmond, William & Mary and Villanova is appropriate. Our football OOC performance has to certainly be turning some heads combined with scholarships in other sports is making PL more attractive each year. Only a matter of time before limited merit scholarships are awarded in football IMO.

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[> [> Re: Marist or Duquesne -- Sader Fan, 09:39:52 04/14/06 Fri [1]

Just a correction re RPI. They don't play NESCAC schools in football, NESCAC schools only play 8 games and they are all in conference.

Speaking of NESCAC, I always thought that Trinity College in Hartford, CT would be a good PL candidate. Their football team is way ahead of all the other NESCAC schools in terms of size and talent (they have not lost a game in 2 or 3 years)and they are more ambitious athletically. Its a great academic school about the size of HC or Colgate student body wise and I think they could ramp up in all sports to the PL level. It would be great for HC to have a more geographically close rival.

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[> [> [> Re: Marist or Duquesne -- bump, 17:13:29 07/18/06 Tue [1]


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