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Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Leo Kerr
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Date Posted: 20:11:35 05/11/15 Mon
In reply to: Wes 's message, "Forgotten anniversaries" on 14:34:02 05/11/15 Mon

Because of where I work, I had heard about the anniversaries of Lincoln's death, and the Salk vaccine. I think I had heard somewhere about the Civil War surrender; not sure if it was conversation or what.

VE got note in DC given the overflight. Not that I realized until later it was just a part of a ceremony at the WWII memorial..

History is.. oddly challenging. In high school and college, I was not required to take any "world history" classes. High school had two years of "American History" that were a vague, fast highlights tour of.. well, sort of about 1750-1950. And a big chunk of "here's how to take one of the state mandated tests for graduation." (HS class of 1990, before the big heaps of "high stakes testing.")

My various history classes were either superficial or made deadly by the instructor. Some instructors.. get tired. 30 years of teaching American History and Government to bored teenagers? Yeah, right.

My most interesting history lessons were actually in middle school English classes, when one of the regular substitute teachers basically ignored any lesson plans, hand-outs, or anything like that, and talked about his experiences in Europe in the early 1940s. I can't remember if he was infantry or artillery in the Battle of the Bulge. But that was about it.

Later, I've read more histories, but they're (a) books, and (b) very narrow. I just finished an interesting one on the influence of photography on astronomy and what became "astrophysics," from, what, about 1780 to 1932.

I guess from my perspective: how do you teach history? Or, rather, how *should* you teach history?

Leo

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
wexwiz543
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:24:06 05/11/15 Mon

I teach at a Jr College and try to bring in current events and history into my classes. It is very discouraging on Veterans Day when I ask my students what happened at 11am on 11 Nov 1918. Most can't even tell me what was going on in 1918. If we do not have an understanding of history, how are we to get along in this life.

Wex

>Another column picked up from the paper. I was
>going to post this last week but I got sidetracked.

>
>I spend a fair amout of time following the national
>news, mostly on the Internet, and then mostly because
>I can pick and choose which stories interest me,
>rather than hearing more useless stuff about the
>Karadashians, which doesn't strike me as news at all.
>
>At least catching news on the Internet allows me to
>avoid some of the more obnoxious television
>commercials, although the popups and addons in the
>Internet are getting to be just about as irritating
>and useless.
>
>But I digress.
>
>Several times in the past few days I've been impressed
>about things that haven't made the news, or if they
>have, they're barely been mentioned.
>
>For example, last Thursday, April 30, was the 70th
>anniversary of Hitler's death, one of the important
>landmarks of the twentieth century. I saw a grand
>total of one story on the subject.
>
>I did see a couple of very brief mentions of April 12
>being the anniversary of FDR's death, but that was
>about it.
>
>The only lesson I can draw out of that is that neither
>Hitler nor Roosevelt mean much of anything to most
>people, especially those in the news media.
>
>April 15 was the one hundred fiftieth anniversary of
>Lincoln's death. Barely a mention on the news. I did
>see a little more coverage of the anniversary of Lee's
>surrender at Appomatox Court House, but only because I
>know a Civil War re-enactor who was there and had to
>report on the interesting time he had.
>
>Yeah, but that was the Civil War, a hundred and fifty
>years ago, so who cares?
>
>How about a more recent landmark date: April 12, 1955,
>sixty years ago, when Dr. Jonas Salk announced that
>field trials of the polio vaccine were a huge success?
>I'm just barely old enough to remember it. You have to
>be at least as old as I am to remember the annual fear
>that came when polio season arrived -- but not a
>mention of the commemoration of this event did I see
>in the news. Yet, those of us in those days learned an
>important lesson, one that appears to have disappeared
>from the common sense of people today.
>
>It's all in the past, and I guess that means in this
>so-called modern day and age the past doesn't mean
>much of anything any more. Philosopher George
>Santayana is remembered for saying, "Those who cannot
>remember the past are condemned to repeat it." He is
>right, but there aren't many people who remember who
>Santayana was. He was in the past, after all, so
>therefore irrelevant.
>
>I guess I'm just being crabby and in a bad mood. We
>are all results of what happened in the past, and we
>wouldn't be here if the past had not happened.
>
>I for one think that knowledge and respect of where we
>came from and what happened in the past are important.
>Granted, things are changing, and what was important
>to us or to our ancestors, sixty or seventy or a
>hundred and fifty years ago may not have a great deal
>of relevance to us today. But still, there is some
>relevance, some lessons learned by our ancestors that
>we would do well to take to heart.
>
>Now, all that said, May 8 -- Friday -- is the
>seventieth anniversary of V-E Day, the day World War
>II ended in Europe. Naturally, I've seen very little
>news coverage of this story except for some minor
>stories out of Europe, where the story probably had
>more impact than in the US in 1945, where we used to
>celebrate VJ Day on August 16 -- not that we do any
>more. After all, it's in the past, and not relevant to
>people in the modern world.
>
>Or is it?
[> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Boyd Percy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 00:12:59 05/12/15 Tue

>I teach at a Jr College and try to bring in current
>events and history into my classes. It is very
>discouraging on Veterans Day when I ask my students
>what happened at 11am on 11 Nov 1918. Most can't even
>tell me what was going on in 1918. If we do not have
>an understanding of history, how are we to get along
>in this life.
>
>Wex


Not to worry!

We'll whip out our smart phone or tablet and "google" any issue we're confronted with these days. Or even better yet, hold up our new Apple or Android watch and find any answer we need but only if our eyes can see something that small.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
wexwiz543
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:50:15 05/12/15 Tue

No electronic devices allowed in my classes. Too many students using them for things other than class work.
FYI electronic devices are also banned in classes at MIT and Harvard.

Wex

>>I teach at a Jr College and try to bring in current
>>events and history into my classes. It is very
>>discouraging on Veterans Day when I ask my students
>>what happened at 11am on 11 Nov 1918. Most can't even
>>tell me what was going on in 1918. If we do not have
>>an understanding of history, how are we to get along
>>in this life.
>>
>>Wex
>
>
>Not to worry!
>
>We'll whip out our smart phone or tablet and "google"
>any issue we're confronted with these days. Or even
>better yet, hold up our new Apple or Android watch and
>find any answer we need but only if our eyes can see
>something that small.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Boyd Percy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:31:41 05/12/15 Tue

>No electronic devices allowed in my classes. Too many
>students using them for things other than class work.
>FYI electronic devices are also banned in classes at
>MIT and Harvard.
>
>Wex
>

In June of this year, it will be 50 years since I started college. We didn't have any electronics available, just the written word. I remember at registration we had to collect IBM punch cards for our classes so I know there were computers involved. A daylong hassle. The first year I thought the toughest thing about college was registration process and the interminable waiting in long lines. This fall my grandson will start college and I wonder sometimes if he could survive without a smartphone.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
byte mangler
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:31:07 06/27/15 Sat

>In June of this year, it will be 50 years since I
>started college. We didn't have any electronics
>available, just the written word. I remember at
>registration we had to collect IBM punch cards for our
>classes so I know there were computers involved. A
>daylong hassle. The first year I thought the toughest
>thing about college was registration process and the
>interminable waiting in long lines. This fall my
>grandson will start college and I wonder sometimes if
>he could survive without a smartphone.

Computers were definitely a part of the picture in 1965. At that time there was NO interactive interface, but the punch cards were almost definitely destined for a computer system running batch programs.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Ian
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:29:45 06/29/15 Mon


>Computers were definitely a part of the picture in
>1965. At that time there was NO interactive
>interface, but the punch cards were almost definitely
>destined for a computer system running batch programs.

Absolutely. In May 1965 I started as a trainee programmer. IBM 1401 system, 16000 (yes, decimal 16K) character (6 bit characters) memory, 2 disk drives each with 1 million characters of storage on removable disk packs, 4 tape drives, card reader and card punch. All programs were loaded from cards. Input data originated as cards too.

Ian
[> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Dmitri
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:12:41 05/16/15 Sat

There's an awful lot of "history." Some of it interests me. The things that interests me don't always interest everyone else (or even anyone else?). What interests everyone else (including teachers) doesn't always interest me. The Battle of Hastings? (That was in 1066 AD.) No interest for me. Bastille Day? (1789, French Revolution.) Again, no interest here. The Big Thompson Canyon flood? (1976 -- July 31 in Colorado if you really want to know.) Now that interests me. Anyone else reading this ever heard of it? Probably not.

Different interests for different people.

Of course there are some general events that teachers (or school curriculums) think need to be taught. Learn 'em for the tests and forget 'em immediately afterward. History does teach us generalities. Like Santayana's "Forget history and you'll repeat it," it will happen again and again even if the exact details of an event are remembered or just that inequities cause differences of opinion that lead to wars. How many battles have been fought now and over the exact same issues? I think it's the way humans work (or don't work, depending on your viewpoint).

Dmitri

>I teach at a Jr College and try to bring in current
>events and history into my classes. It is very
>discouraging on Veterans Day when I ask my students
>what happened at 11am on 11 Nov 1918. Most can't even
>tell me what was going on in 1918. If we do not have
>an understanding of history, how are we to get along
>in this life.
>
>Wex
>
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Leo Kerr
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:39:47 05/16/15 Sat

it almost sounds like you're proposing... a systemic method of... exploring history.

For an explanatory example, I'm a geography major (not that it shows,) and there were two major ways presented as "how to teach geography" -- one being the style very often taught in middle school: Brazil is the largest country in South America, and it's principal exports are X, and it's principal imports are Y, and the population is Z, and the GDP, is...

Where I went for my degree, "systemic" geography, that of "why" are things there. How does a river (in general) work, that can be applied to, say, that specific river? What sorts of businesses tend to end up at corners, versus mid-block? How far from the city center? And all that jazz. Need to know the number of strawberries exported from California in 2004? Know where/how to find out. (Wow: I was a college junior when Mosaic started showing up in some of the computer labs.. not that there was a lot that could be done with it.)

Applied to history might be interesting. Confusing, difficult, but interesting. Not a collection of names, facts, and dates, but looking at causes, and then being able to try and find such things in, for example, the Battle of Hastings?

Could that *work?* It's a very interesting, curious idea.

Although I have to admit, I'm very cautious about charging, full speed ahead, in to educational experiments. I went through middle and high school as our region was swinging into "whole language". I still had learned the phonic based reading and such, but my learning of base grammar has been dodgy. (Fortunately, at least locally, whole language seems to have been discredited, but I don't know if grammar is making its way back in.)
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Dmitri
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:00:21 05/19/15 Tue

>it almost sounds like you're proposing... a systemic
>method of... exploring history.
>

I'm not sure method matters a whole lot, and that will depend on teacher or curriculum requirements (or the committee stipulating such) at the school.

What I was questioning was content. I do agree that something probably needs to be taught, but teachers or curriculum committees also have to realize that interests differ in students. In teachers, too. And many students won't care at all about any aspect of history.

As I said before, there's an awful lot of history, more than can be learned by any one person, and more is happening all the time to be added to the whole. What portion of it to cover for a "history course?" Contrary to belief, they can't teach it all. It is always specifics that are taught, though some may be more general than others.

For instance, here in the USA, American History is the concentration. How much history of Thailand or Russian Georgia is taught here? Not much, if any at all. How much American History is taught in those and other countries, much less Michigan specific, or that of Chicago or Peru, Indiana? (That's "PEEE-Roo" by the way, not pronounced there like the country in South America.)

Looking at it that way, it's always some portion of a systemic whole in method or content, more specific than the term definition of "covering the whole system" (total world history?) would require.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
K Pelle aka dotB
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:50:07 05/21/15 Thu


>For instance, here in the USA, American History is the
>concentration. How much history of Thailand or
>Russian Georgia is taught here? Not much, if any at
>all. How much American History is taught in those and
>other countries, much less Michigan specific, or that
>of Chicago or Peru, Indiana? (That's "PEEE-Roo" by the
>way, not pronounced there like the country in South
>America.)
>

Hmm, I think this article says a lot about most of the educational system in the USA;
http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/one-third-of-american-8th-graders-think-canada-is-a-dictatorship-1.3082239

I read that and was stunned at the results.

kp
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Boyd Percy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:34:02 05/22/15 Fri

>
>>For instance, here in the USA, American History is the
>>concentration. How much history of Thailand or
>>Russian Georgia is taught here? Not much, if any at
>>all. How much American History is taught in those and
>>other countries, much less Michigan specific, or that
>>of Chicago or Peru, Indiana? (That's "PEEE-Roo" by the
>>way, not pronounced there like the country in South
>>America.)
>>
>
>Hmm, I think this article says a lot about most of the
>educational system in the USA;
> >href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/one-third-of-amer
>ican-8th-graders-think-canada-is-a-dictatorship-1.30822
>39">http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/one-third-of-americ
>an-8th-graders-think-canada-is-a-dictatorship-1.3082239
>

>
>I read that and was stunned at the results.
>
>kp



I'm not surprised at all. I daresay that many middle and high school students in the U.S. probably have no idea where Canada is located.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Forgotten anniversaries


Author:
Mikey
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:37:41 07/01/15 Wed

>Hmm, I think this article says a lot about most of the
>educational system in the USA;
> >href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/one-third-of-amer
>ican-8th-graders-think-canada-is-a-dictatorship-1.30822
>39">http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/one-third-of-americ
>an-8th-graders-think-canada-is-a-dictatorship-1.3082239
>

>
>I read that and was stunned at the results.
>
>kp

Likewise.
My dad grew up in Canada and had a number of
interesting stories about his teenage years
in Toronto.


>I'm not surprised at all. I daresay that
>many middle and high school students in
>the U.S. probably have no idea where
>Canada is located.

True.
The teachers teach the exit exams and no
more than they have to.

After getting my amateur radio license I learned
a lot of world Geography ... because I had an
interest in doing so.
Every station is assigned a callsign by their
local radio authority. You are identified by
that callsign when on the air.
Anyway, one winter morning I asked the teacher
where Samoa was, as I'd talked to a radio
operator there the previous night - but it
was daytime and summer for him. The teacher
accused me of lying (she'd never heard of
ham radio) and sent me to the principal.
Fortunately the principal's uncle had been
a ham and had a clue.
The end result was that the teacher got
an education (what a concept!), and I
learned where Samoa was.


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