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Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: mikey [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 04:47:32 07/22/12 Sun In reply to: Greg B 's message, "Modern Steam Locomotives" on 16:57:13 07/20/12 Fri >In chapter 18 of Hannegan's Cove, the idea of a modern >steam locomotive is mentioned in passing. The idea >struck me as very interesting for two reasons: 1. >modern diesel locomotives use the diesel engine to >generate electric power, which drives electric motors; >2. the late-generation steamships, especially naval >vessels, used steam turbines to generate electricity >which drove electric motors (basically one step from >current nuclear subs and carriers). > >So it seems that steam-turbine electric locomotives >are technically feasible and might have clear >environmental advantages. Maybe if they burn hydrogen >to produce the steam? > >Did anybody else think along these lines? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Ronald McKenzie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 05:08:15 08/26/12 Sun >In chapter 18 of Hannegan's Cove, the idea of a modern >steam locomotive is mentioned in passing. The idea >struck me as very interesting for two reasons: 1. >modern diesel locomotives use the diesel engine to >generate electric power, which drives electric motors; >2. the late-generation steamships, especially naval >vessels, used steam turbines to generate electricity >which drove electric motors (basically one step from >current nuclear subs and carriers). > >So it seems that steam-turbine electric locomotives >are technically feasible and might have clear >environmental advantages. Maybe if they burn hydrogen >to produce the steam? > >Did anybody else think along these lines? Steam engines of their day could go a long distance on the coal they carried, but only a short distance between taking up water to have for steam. Unlike on a ship or sub, the train has no way to cool the steam back to water, so only gets to use the water once. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:05:11 08/26/12 Sun >>In chapter 18 of Hannegan's Cove, the idea of a modern >>steam locomotive is mentioned in passing. The idea >>struck me as very interesting for two reasons: 1. >>modern diesel locomotives use the diesel engine to >>generate electric power, which drives electric motors; >>2. the late-generation steamships, especially naval >>vessels, used steam turbines to generate electricity >>which drove electric motors (basically one step from >>current nuclear subs and carriers). >> >>So it seems that steam-turbine electric locomotives >>are technically feasible and might have clear >>environmental advantages. Maybe if they burn hydrogen >>to produce the steam? >> >>Did anybody else think along these lines? > >Steam engines of their day could go a long distance on >the coal they carried, but only a short distance >between taking up water to have for steam. Unlike on a >ship or sub, the train has no way to cool the steam >back to water, so only gets to use the water once. That fact would probably make things difficult for a modern transcontinental steam engine to be profitable, but it could be a viable idea for switcher engines. In some cases those could also be used for short trips. Another possibility would be possibly disguising the workings of a modern steam locomotive in the body of an antique - using that as the motor power for nostalgic/historical train rides. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:51:20 08/26/12 Sun > >Steam engines of their day could go a long distance on >the coal they carried, but only a short distance >between taking up water to have for steam. Unlike on a >ship or sub, the train has no way to cool the steam >back to water, so only gets to use the water once. There were some steam loco's with condenser stems to se the water over. I remember reading in "TRAINS" Magazine about such engines being used in South Africa, but don't remember details. I will search over the next few days and try to get more info. I believe one of the main problems was the loss of forced draught from the steam exhausting up the stack. Lew [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:06:03 08/26/12 Sun >> >>Steam engines of their day could go a long distance on >>the coal they carried, but only a short distance >>between taking up water to have for steam. Unlike on a >>ship or sub, the train has no way to cool the steam >>back to water, so only gets to use the water once. > >There were some steam loco's with condenser stems to >se the water over. I remember reading in "TRAINS" >Magazine about such engines being used in South >Africa, but don't remember details. I will search >over the next few days and try to get more info. I >believe one of the main problems was the loss of >forced draught from the steam exhausting up the stack. > > >Lew Here are a couple items I found. The Yahoo search has many good hits. Lew [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:07:48 08/26/12 Sun >>> >>>Steam engines of their day could go a long distance >on >>>the coal they carried, but only a short distance >>>between taking up water to have for steam. Unlike on >a >>>ship or sub, the train has no way to cool the steam >>>back to water, so only gets to use the water once. >> >>There were some steam loco's with condenser stems to >>se the water over. I remember reading in "TRAINS" >>Magazine about such engines being used in South >>Africa, but don't remember details. I will search >>over the next few days and try to get more info. I >>believe one of the main problems was the loss of >>forced draught from the steam exhausting up the stack. >> >> >>Lew > > >Here are a couple items I found. The Yahoo search has >many good hits. > > >Lew Hear are the hits I got OOPS! Yahoo Search: http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-hptb5&p=condensing%20steam%20locomotives&type= Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensing_steam_locomotive Lew [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: K Pelle aka dotB [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:09:14 08/26/12 Sun Unfortunately condensing locomotives usually managed to do any cooling of the exhaust steam by running the condenser pipes through the water tanks. That would soon heat the water in the tanks to near boiling point, at which time the injectors on the engine would not function so they had to use steam powered pumps in order to refill the boilers. Not only that, but there are many other problems which crept into the situation, so often they lost any benefit in travel between watering points. All in all condensing locomotives were seldom a viable solution to the problem - instead most railroads tried to use the largest possible water tank they could and suffered with the inconvenience of frequent water stops. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:49:48 08/26/12 Sun >Unfortunately condensing locomotives usually managed >to do any cooling of the exhaust steam by running the >condenser pipes through the water tanks. That would >soon heat the water in the tanks to near boiling >point, at which time the injectors on the engine would >not function so they had to use steam powered pumps in >order to refill the boilers. Not only that, but there >are many other problems which crept into the >situation, so often they lost any benefit in travel >between watering points. All in all condensing >locomotives were seldom a viable solution to the >problem - instead most railroads tried to use the >largest possible water tank they could and suffered >with the inconvenience of frequent water stops. Or else pull extra water tanks (N&W called them 'Thermos Bottles')to extend the range between water stops. Lew [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Modern Steam Locomotives Author: K Pelle aka dotB [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:17:07 08/26/12 Sun >>Unfortunately most railroads tried to use the >>largest possible water tank they could and suffered >>with the inconvenience of frequent water stops. > >Or else pull extra water tanks (N&W called them >'Thermos Bottles')to extend the range between water >stops. > >Lew And the operating department got belly ached at because that extra tank of water was 'dead' weight, bringing no revenue to the railroad - just one more loss of profit that the financial department hated. kp [ Post a Reply to This Message ]