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Subject: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 02:59:43 03/29/10 Mon The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of story areas" page. Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are now sorted. ** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the original. ** Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and myself. It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it is probably because there is a differing description in another book or because Wes's words didn't match his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will have noted the map has been extended northwards, this is again required for future publications. In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing to the compressed web version the colours change, I will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to try and make it ebook monotone compatible. Andy [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:42:35 03/29/10 Mon >The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >story areas" page. >Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >now sorted. > >** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >original. ** > >Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' >and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and >myself. > >It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >is probably because there is a differing description >in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >is again required for future publications. > >In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to >a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >to the compressed web version the colours change, I >will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to >try and make it ebook monotone compatible. > >Andy G'day Andy, Both looked very good on my 19 inch monitor. A good job well done, I think. In regards to the change of colours in the web version, that can happen if you are using colours set for Internet Explorer that aren't part of the industry standard colour set. And it will sometimes happen when you use the numeric format and not the standard colour names - it's something to do with faults within IE that don't interpret the colours correctly. On the web pages I design, I tend to use the standard colour names system as they display properly in all browsers. Regards, Ernest

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:57:23 03/29/10 Mon >G'day Andy, > >Both looked very good on my 19 inch monitor. A good >job well done, I think. > >In regards to the change of colours in the web >version, that can happen if you are using colours set >for Internet Explorer that aren't part of the industry >standard colour set. And it will sometimes happen when >you use the numeric format and not the standard colour >names - it's something to do with faults within IE >that don't interpret the colours correctly. On the web >pages I design, I tend to use the standard colour >names system as they display properly in all browsers. > >Regards, > >Ernest There probably lies the problem, I have only done a small amount of work that was to go directly as a web page. I was an electronics engineer that got diverted down the training route, where I had to produce paper training material. That led me into technical publications and training. There again it is mainly for book format, usually locked down PDF's on A4 paper, although 95% is sent to clients on DVD and never printed. (For the Americans I just change to letter size and adjust the margins, they never notice.)

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:00:05 03/29/10 Mon >>G'day Andy, >> >>Both looked very good on my 19 inch monitor. A good >>job well done, I think. >> >>In regards to the change of colours in the web >>version, that can happen if you are using colours set >>for Internet Explorer that aren't part of the industry >>standard colour set. And it will sometimes happen when >>you use the numeric format and not the standard colour >>names - it's something to do with faults within IE >>that don't interpret the colours correctly. On the web >>pages I design, I tend to use the standard colour >>names system as they display properly in all browsers. >> >>Regards, >> >>Ernest > >There probably lies the problem, I have only done a >small amount of work that was to go directly as a web >page. > >I was an electronics engineer that got diverted down >the training route, where I had to produce paper >training material. That led me into technical >publications and training. There again it is mainly >for book format, usually locked down PDF's on A4 >paper, although 95% is sent to clients on DVD and >never printed. (For the Americans I just change to >letter size and adjust the margins, they never notice.) G'day, I often write in plain html - heck all my stories, and some of friends, go up at ASSTR and SOL in plain html. If you want, I'll cast an eye over the stuff you're doing for Wes and see if I can spot any issues or potential problems. However, I don't use Java or Flash as I prefer simple, low maintenance, and low download web site Some examples are at: www.bywater.net.au http://www.asstr.org/~cazna/ http://www.asstr.org/~ebywater/ and all our stories at SOL are submitted in html, but they convert to Bcode. The issue with colours I mentioned comes out when you sue the numeric codes like ##FF0034 etc - but the named older 256 named colour standards go back before IE deviated and use things like - steelblue, darkgreen, etc - lists of these are available in most html books or on the internet. There are a couple of later added colours which are not universal, but they are usually marked as such. regards, Ernest

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: mallory [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:52:05 03/29/10 Mon Great map. Looks brilliant and feels right. A VERY good attempt at mapping a complex subject. You wanted reader input, Here goes. A possible minor issue, in Dawnwalker I am pretty positive Randy drives into Spearfish Lake from Marquette via Warsaw/ Hoselton etc. I don't have time to look for the reference now but I'm convinced it's when he returns to Spearfish Lake after his degree is over. While there are very minor roads on your map I would have thought this needed something bigger? Hopefully I'm not making this up! Also a couple of points I'm a lot hazier about. You have the railroad by Lordston labelled as LH. Shouldnt that be LN for Lordston and Northern or am I getting confused? Finally didnt they relay the tracks north of Haley - I very vaguely seem to recall reading that in one of the books. Facing the Storm I think?

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:12:55 03/29/10 Mon >Great map. Looks brilliant and feels right. A VERY >good attempt at mapping a complex subject. > >You wanted reader input, Here goes. A possible minor >issue, in Dawnwalker I am pretty positive Randy drives >into Spearfish Lake from Marquette via Warsaw/ >Hoselton etc. I don't have time to look for the >reference now but I'm convinced it's when he returns >to Spearfish Lake after his degree is over. While >there are very minor roads on your map I would have >thought this needed something bigger? > >Hopefully I'm not making this up! > >Also a couple of points I'm a lot hazier about. You >have the railroad by Lordston labelled as LH. Shouldnt >that be LN for Lordston and Northern or am I getting >confused? > >Finally didnt they relay the tracks north of Haley - I >very vaguely seem to recall reading that in one of the >books. Facing the Storm I think? Have to admit did not use Dawnwalker as reference material for the map. Main books used were Snowplow extra, which is what this map was initially used for, so reflects that period of railroad ownership and condition. And Josh's Warsaw race description in Runner's Moon. Well spotted on the LH, it should be LN. Always had to leave something for the editor's to spot or they would have been out of a job ;-) The track was re-instated as you say, and the track north of there was sold to Bud and upgraded so he could do the K-pit traffic and have a route to Camden D & O track as the D & O never did fix the bridge over the Marshall River.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: mallory [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:24:56 03/29/10 Mon >Have to admit did not use Dawnwalker as reference >material for the map. Main books used were Snowplow >extra, which is what this map was initially used for, >so reflects that period of railroad ownership and >condition. And Josh's Warsaw race description in >Runner's Moon. > >Well spotted on the LH, it should be LN. Always had to >leave something for the editor's to spot or they would >have been out of a job ;-) > >The track was re-instated as you say, and the track >north of there was sold to Bud and upgraded so he >could do the K-pit traffic and have a route to Camden >D & O track as the D & O never did fix the bridge over >the Marshall River. As to the road from the north, the reference is Chapter 49 Dawnwalker. Also you have the Railroad from Walsenburg to Kremling marked as 'Engaged'. Do you mean Embargoed? Just a query.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:37:37 03/29/10 Mon Andy; If further updates are done, could the location of the 'West Turtle Lake Club' be shown. I have trouble figuring it out from books descriptions. Lew

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:51:05 03/29/10 Mon >Andy; > >If further updates are done, could the location of the >'West Turtle Lake Club' be shown. I have trouble >figuring it out from books descriptions. > >Lew Me too. That's a question for Wes.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:53:46 03/30/10 Tue >>Andy; >> >>If further updates are done, could the location of the >>'West Turtle Lake Club' be shown. I have trouble >>figuring it out from books descriptions. >> >>Lew >Me too. > >That's a question for Wes. You see where 919 goes between the two hills. The WTLC is to the south of the right-hand hill. Yes, I know east and west are flipped -- that happened in the great Snowplow Extra storm fix. The location will come up in a future story and I'll dream up an explanation. Maybe there was once a Turtle Lake to the east when the club was named, but Colonel Matson built a dam to raise the level which inundated the distinction, so the name held. Or something. -- Wes

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Brian [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:25:22 03/30/10 Tue >>>Andy; >>> >>>If further updates are done, could the location of >the >>>'West Turtle Lake Club' be shown. I have trouble >>>figuring it out from books descriptions. >>> >>>Lew >>Me too. >> >>That's a question for Wes. > >You see where 919 goes between the two hills. The WTLC >is to the south of the right-hand hill. Yes, I know >east and west are flipped -- that happened in the >great Snowplow Extra storm fix. The location will come >up in a future story and I'll dream up an explanation. >Maybe there was once a Turtle Lake to the east when >the club was named, but Colonel Matson built a dam to >raise the level which inundated the distinction, so >the name held. Or something. > >-- Wes Wes: On both maps there are 2 lakes (called Turtle Lakes on the Spearfish Lake map). Are these different from what you have suggested - or did our mapmaker anticipate future history? If the WTLC were south and slightly west of the bottom point of the right hill shown on the RR map wouldn't that fit with your proposed location of the club? Brian Also, on the Spearfish Lake map there is a hill shown south & east of where 919 curves to the east which doesn't seem to be on the RR map.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Hal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:23:21 03/29/10 Mon Andy the map is wonderful! Thank you very much. It helps me figure out what the heck is going on when my imagination can't quite cope ;) Hal

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: jayess [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:04:35 04/01/10 Thu >The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >story areas" page. >Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >now sorted. > Thanks - I always like seeing maps of stories. My map question is where is the sewage plant that was a major character in BAR? Maybe if I read the book again it will be clearer, but I think it would be a useful addition to a map.

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:06:47 04/01/10 Thu > >My map question is where is the sewage plant that was >a major character in BAR? Maybe if I read the book >again it will be clearer, but I think it would be a >useful addition to a map. It's near Clark Plywood. -- Wes

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:47:11 04/01/10 Thu Where is the terminus for all that rock? I had the sense that it went on lake freighters but no port visible

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:42:51 04/01/10 Thu >Where is the terminus for all that rock? > >I had the sense that it went on lake freighters but no >port visible G'day, A couple of the books mention the rock from the quarries being taken to the river docks in Camden, where they get loaded onto barges to be taken down the river. The dock area has a certain amount of storage, and one book mentions about the end of the rock carting early due to them having enough in storage at the dock to carry them until the winter freeze shuts the river traffic down. I expect there's a private spur for the dock that comes off the line just before the broken bridge over the river. Ernest

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:58:34 04/01/10 Thu Am I correct in assuming that the site of the white water activities is located at the end of the abandoned rail line near the Albany River. The little green marks look like marsh (a) ;-), so maybe I'm wrong

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:52:11 04/01/10 Thu >Am I correct in assuming that the site of the white >water activities is located at the end of the >abandoned rail line near the Albany River. The little >green marks look like marsh (a) ;-), so maybe I'm wrong The White water action is either on the Little Spearfish river or below the dam on the Albany river.

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:54:05 04/02/10 Fri >Am I correct in assuming that the site of the white >water activities is located at the end of the >abandoned rail line near the Albany River. The little >green marks look like marsh (a) ;-), so maybe I'm wrong In Chapter 18 of "DawnWalker", Randy and Joe McGuinness go white water boating on the Little Spearfish River described as so: (QUOTE): On that warm early May afternoon Randy and Joe McGuinness were headed to a spot on the Little Spearfish northeast of the Turtle Hills, where the river takes several big steps down from the swamps of the plateau it drains. Randy had always known it was a fairly steep in this area, but he'd never associated it with whitewater -- but then, until recently, he'd never thought much about whitewater, either. (ENDQUOTE):

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:28:34 04/01/10 Thu Both maps feature references to the "North Country Trail" which when I look at the trail maps on their website it is a lot farther north than I thought Spearfish lake really was.

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:56:54 04/01/10 Thu >Both maps feature references to the "North Country >Trail" which when I look at the trail maps on their >website it is a lot farther north than I thought >Spearfish lake really was. The only person who knows where spearfish lake is is Wes, and I am not totally convinced that he really knows. Its probably like Easter, movable, depending on phases of the moon, and probably blue, or maybe runners, moons at that.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:45:24 04/02/10 Fri The first two questions in the FAQ on the website address the true location of Spearfish Lake. If Spearfish Lake is to far south to actually be on the main trail, it could be located near a southern side trail, or a previous route that has kept it's name locally. Rob >>Both maps feature references to the "North Country >>Trail" which when I look at the trail maps on their >>website it is a lot farther north than I thought >>Spearfish lake really was. >The only person who knows where spearfish lake is is >Wes, and I am not totally convinced that he really >knows. Its probably like Easter, movable, depending on >phases of the moon, and probably blue, or maybe >runners, moons at that.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:00:18 04/02/10 Fri I am re-reading Runner's Moon to try and naswer my own question but thanks very much for your insights. Another questions that has arisen: Is Norm Niven's cabin at Riverbend Camp? Is there is list of items to be added to the new map?

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:41:37 04/02/10 Fri >I am re-reading Runner's Moon to try and naswer my own >question but thanks very much for your insights. > >Another questions that has arisen: Is Norm Niven's >cabin at Riverbend Camp? > >Is there is list of items to be added to the new map? George; I think River Bend Camp is where Mark and Mike camped while researching their rout for the first Warsaw run, and again later when the river was frozen. I would put Norm's cabin somewhere near the top of Turtle Hill which I believe is the hill just to the right and above the 919 crossing. Seems to fit in with the descriptions in Chapters 9 and 10 of "Runner's Moon"

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Hal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:22:25 04/02/10 Fri And the map is handy again, for today's chapter. Thanks again, Andy! And I am laughing about the earnest discussion about exactly where Spearfish Lake is. I don't think Wes had a GPS unit on his desk as he wrote the story, but it is certainly neat that there is that much interest!

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:35:26 04/02/10 Fri Thanks for all the comments, and keep them coming. We need a map that matches the quality of Wes's writing. I think Wes has "plans" for the extra space at the top of the map, but as these have not been published yet, I am as much in the dark as you are. I have noted your requests and at a suitable time will have an email conversation with Wes about them. What I really want is a map of Warsaw, I get horribly confused when reading Snowplow Extra. Unfortunately Wes cannot locate his sketch. No doubt he will stumble upon it sometime, but I hope it is not too long in the future.

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:57:31 04/02/10 Fri Surely the infamous "West Turtle lake club" warrants a mention unless it is purposely left off for security reasons

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:42:26 04/02/10 Fri Another idea may be to add in the route of the sled dog trail for the race to Warsaw and back

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:45:50 04/02/10 Fri >Another idea may be to add in the route of the sled >dog trail for the race to Warsaw and back I have to admit that I am not even sure that I know where the race starts and that could be on the maps too!

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:52:47 04/02/10 Fri Even more confused In Chapter 13 of Runners Moon the following is written They went by Busted Axle Road -- that wasn't its real name; officially it was County Road 542. but on both maps it seems to be CR 427 Save me!

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:27:38 04/26/10 Mon >Even more confused > >In Chapter 13 of Runners Moon the following is written > >They went by Busted Axle Road -- that wasn't its real >name; officially it was County Road 542. > >but on both maps it seems to be CR 427 > >Save me! Found the problem on Saturday, but suddenly I lost my ISP, just after I sent email to Wes. Visit by "engineer" booked for Wed pm. But found it was back about an hour ago. Oh yeah, Busted Axle Road CR number. If you read BAR then it is CR427, but if you read RM or FTS then it is CR542. So again we have a Wes brain fade problem. There are some others which the eagle eye'd good memory people might spot. Andy

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:32:31 04/26/10 Mon >Oh yeah, Busted Axle Road CR number. If you read BAR >then it is CR427, but if you read RM or FTS then it is >CR542. > >So again we have a Wes brain fade problem. There are >some others which the eagle eye'd good memory people >might spot. Hey, if the locals can't keep it straight how do you expect me to? I did finally get the pointer to the map fixed over the weekend. -- Wes

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:38:45 04/27/10 Tue >>Oh yeah, Busted Axle Road CR number. If you read BAR >>then it is CR427, but if you read RM or FTS then it is >>CR542. >> >>So again we have a Wes brain fade problem. There are >>some others which the eagle eye'd good memory people >>might spot. > >Hey, if the locals can't keep it straight how do you >expect me to? > >I did finally get the pointer to the map fixed over >the weekend. > >-- Wes You're meant to commision a cartoon, illustrating the confusion caused to the local populus, and publish it in your newspaper.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:40:31 04/02/10 Fri >>Another idea may be to add in the route of the sled >>dog trail for the race to Warsaw and back > > >I have to admit that I am not even sure that I know >where the race starts and that could be on the maps >too! I believe that the race start was on the frozen lake about where the name "Lakeshore Drive" appears on the village map, goes across the lake to the road (trail?) right above where the name " Hannegan's Cove " appears on the same map; up that trail and up Broken Axle Rd to the C&SL ROW (Right of Way), then east on the rail line. Switching to the area map, the bridge crossing theSpearfish River was where they had to descend off the ROW and use the crossing below it, then back up to the ROW and on past Hoselton to Warsaw. The map doesn't have the detail there, but after the rest period they took the trail spur back to the North Country Trail and west on it to the side trail down to the C&SL ROW and across it to the lake and across he lake to the Start/Finish line on the shore line. Any comments on my ideas? Lew

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:07:34 04/02/10 Fri Mostly agree but it gets tricky a couple of times. I thought they agreed to get on the ROW earlier so they didn't have to cross the highway. That discussion takes place when they are discussing 7-10 dogs and Tiffany's age. That should negate a bunch of comments about turn offs as they would be on the ROW There is no use of the ROW on the way out of Warsaw as per Not far past Horton's house, the street narrowed to a single lane, obviously plowed out just for the race. It continued northward like that for about half a mile, where another yellow blinker light was flashing. There, Josh knew, the plowing would come to an end, at the turn onto the North Country Trail.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:53:29 04/02/10 Fri OK I'm on a roll The Pine barrens The Puppy Trail The spot where Tiffany takes the dogs to the lake to avoid the fire The Turtle Lakes nor the Turtle Lakes hills are not even marked on the large map The comments about the 200 projected mile race probably bear incorporating as well Mark's airstrip deserves to be noted as it would on a real map The Riverbend Campground get a mention here (C14) as a stop on the way back from Warsaw on the North Country Trail so you have only to figure out the wat to Warsaw

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:48:26 04/02/10 Fri Another spot due map recognition The Turtle Hill Astronomy Emporium and Submarine race Course!

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: George Thecar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:11:20 04/03/10 Sat On that warm early May afternoon Randy and Joe McGuinness were headed to a spot on the Little Spearfish northeast of the Turtle Hills, where the river takes several big steps down from the swamps of the plateau it drains. Randy had always known it was a fairly steep in this area, but he'd never associated it with whitewater reference for the spring rapids

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: George Thecar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:16:29 04/03/10 Sat Even has a name! "This is Quaker Falls," Need some more bumps on the map reference C18 Dawnwalker 1

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:21:28 04/03/10 Sat >Even has a name! > >"This is Quaker Falls," > >Need some more bumps on the map > >reference C18 Dawnwalker 1 You're not getting more bumps at this scale. Even if Quaker Falls is 100ft high it is insignificant compared to the length of the Little Spearfish river shown on the map, >20 miles as the crow flies.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: George Thecar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:47:44 04/04/10 Sun Snake Hill ski area aka Snow Snake Hill C30 It wasn't far off the state road west of Turtle Hill

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Dmitri [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:24:47 04/04/10 Sun >Snake Hill ski area aka Snow Snake Hill > >C30 It wasn't far off the state road west of Turtle >Hill There are a couple mentions of Snow Snake in the story if I remember right. I think this is left over from the flux of when Wes was moving Spearfish Lake around. There is a real Snowsnake Mtn ski resort in the lower peninsula near the little town of Harrison, not far north of Mt. Pleasant, MI where Central Michigan University is located. It's much too far from NMU for a day trip there. Dmitri

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Rick [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:27:29 04/04/10 Sun >The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >story areas" page. Andy--Very nice work. Thanks. What software did you use? I keep thinking an actual track map -- showing all of the switchws and sidings would be interesting. Can you guess that I'm a railroader??

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Dang Fool [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:19:06 04/05/10 Mon Thanks for all the work! Very good. I hate to sound like a complainer. Is there a reason some road numbers where left off? US-4 from Moffatt to Lordston SR-42 Frontier to Whiteport SR-93 Spearfish Lake to Frontier I thought using US-4 was a brilliant sleight of hand. (Like Wes's mention of I-67). It implies it's south of US-2, which runs through the UP of Michigan and on to Duluth, yet north of US-6 running just south of Chicago and through northern Indiana and Ohio. It fits with the ambiguity on whether Spearfish Lake is in Minnesota, Wisconsin or Michigan.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Mike Harlan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:46:36 04/15/10 Thu The map looks good. I like the colors and labels and everything, but what I would like to know is where is the club? It has to be fairly large to get privacy, but near enough for people to commute to work from there. >The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >story areas" page. >Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >now sorted. > >** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >original. ** > >Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' >and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and >myself. > >It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >is probably because there is a differing description >in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >is again required for future publications. > >In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to >a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >to the compressed web version the colours change, I >will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to >try and make it ebook monotone compatible. > >Andy

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: carlton [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:28:58 04/16/10 Fri If I remember correctly it is off of 919 >The map looks good. I like the colors and labels and >everything, but what I would like to know is where is >the club? It has to be fairly large to get privacy, >but near enough for people to commute to work from >there. > >>The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >>updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >>story areas" page. >>Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >>me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >>now sorted. >> >>** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >>original. ** >> >>Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' >>and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and >>myself. >> >>It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >>distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >>if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >>is probably because there is a differing description >>in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >>his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >>flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >>some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >>to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >>have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >>is again required for future publications. >> >>In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >>i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >>realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to >>a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >>Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >>to the compressed web version the colours change, I >>will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to >>try and make it ebook monotone compatible. >> >>Andy

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Lew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:11:06 04/16/10 Fri Look at the post from Wes dated 12:53:46 03/30/10 Tue . He answers this same question for me. Lew >If I remember correctly it is off of 919 > >>The map looks good. I like the colors and labels and >>everything, but what I would like to know is where is >>the club? It has to be fairly large to get privacy, >>but near enough for people to commute to work from >>there. >> >>>The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >>>updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >>>story areas" page. >>>Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have >kept >>>me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >>>now sorted. >>> >>>** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >>>original. ** >>> >>>Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in >progress' >>>and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes >and >>>myself. >>> >>>It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >>>distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >>>if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >>>is probably because there is a differing description >>>in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >>>his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >>>flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >>>some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >>>to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >>>have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >>>is again required for future publications. >>> >>>In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >>>i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >>>realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor >to >>>a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >>>Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >>>to the compressed web version the colours change, I >>>will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need >to >>>try and make it ebook monotone compatible. >>> >>>Andy

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:30:55 04/27/10 Tue I have read all your msg's, and made a consolidated list. Some items have been actioned, and some have been sent to WES for his comments and hopefully decisions. The county road number for Busted Axle road, AKA Dog Town Road, will stay at CR427. The map is "dated" as at the start of Snowplow Extra (SX). I leave it you how you deal with changes, even in SX there are changes, such as the embargoed track, and the ownership of track etc. To have an attached list of changes, or "later dated" map(s) is not going to work as readers are going to want more and more additions from the subsequent tales, some of which haven't been released yet. And I only get to read them at the same time as everybody else. If you want to see how much I have missed off, print off a copy of the map. Then read SX slowly and pencil in all the detail of swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings, embankments and bridges that are missing. Then read Josh's description of the Warsaw run from Runners moon and add in that detail. Then consider that Wes flipped the map east/west at some stage, but some of the detail in the books is still in its original state. e.g. From BAR "and then east up County Road 427." [you notice how I killed two birds with one stone there] The Town map is similar, location of the sewage plant, the houses of John and Candice, Brandy and Phil, the newspaper offices new and old, Josh and Tiffany's outfitters etc etc etc. Think about the present tale "Square One" the appliance shop is where ? and it looks like Danny has plans, could there be a new larger store selling appliances, lighting, furniture and furnishings, possibly but I don't know and even less of an idea where it might be located.

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: carlton [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:29:11 04/27/10 Tue Andy the map is great. As you stated it is dated as of SNOWPLOW EXTRA. In my opion it was used as a guide by Wes to write SX. Not to be a set in stone for everything else. thanks for a great map for SNOWPLOW EXTRA. >I have read all your msg's, and made a consolidated >list. Some items have been actioned, and some have >been sent to WES for his comments and hopefully >decisions. > >The county road number for Busted Axle road, AKA Dog >Town Road, will stay at CR427. The map is "dated" as >at the start of Snowplow Extra (SX). > >I leave it you how you deal with changes, even in SX >there are changes, such as the embargoed track, and >the ownership of track etc. > >To have an attached list of changes, or "later dated" >map(s) is not going to work as readers are going to >want more and more additions from the subsequent >tales, some of which haven't been released yet. And I >only get to read them at the same time as everybody >else. > >If you want to see how much I have missed off, print >off a copy of the map. Then read SX slowly and pencil >in all the detail of swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings, >embankments and bridges that are missing. Then read >Josh's description of the Warsaw run from Runners moon >and add in that detail. >Then consider that Wes flipped the map east/west at >some stage, but some of the detail in the books is >still in its original state. e.g. From BAR "and then >east up County Road 427." > >[you notice how I killed two birds with one stone >there] > >The Town map is similar, location of the sewage plant, >the houses of John and Candice, Brandy and Phil, the >newspaper offices new and old, Josh and Tiffany's >outfitters etc etc etc. > >Think about the present tale "Square One" the >appliance shop is where ? and it looks like Danny has >plans, could there be a new larger store selling >appliances, lighting, furniture and furnishings, >possibly but I don't know and even less of an idea >where it might be located.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: GeorgeTheCar [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:09:12 04/27/10 Tue Might you clarify the purpose of the map? Is it a replica of the original map or is it a companion to all of Wes' stories based around Spearfish Lake? It will certainly affect the way I look at it and the comments I make.

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: SPLTWikiSysop [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:25:00 04/27/10 Tue Can't figure out where the loading dock is in Camden. (or isn't it there?) -There isn't a big body of water on the map there -There doesn't seem to be a place where the rock trains can be backed down anywhere and the empties picked up. Of course these leads to the question how do the cars move over a dumping spot here and what is the loading mechanism in both pits - moving under a conveyor (with what power) or front end loader? >The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >story areas" page. >Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >now sorted. > >** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >original. ** > >Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' >and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and >myself. > >It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >is probably because there is a differing description >in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >is again required for future publications. > >In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to >a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >to the compressed web version the colours change, I >will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to >try and make it ebook monotone compatible. > >Andy

[> [> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:13:17 04/27/10 Tue >Can't figure out where the loading dock is in Camden. >(or isn't it there?) > It's not specifically noted, but it's easy to tell where it is. >-There isn't a big body of water on the map there >-There doesn't seem to be a place where the rock >trains can be backed down anywhere and the empties >picked up. > We're told in a couple of stories that the rocks go down RIVER so the loading docks are clearly on the river. If you look at the big map, you see the C&SL track ends in Camden at a point near the junction of two rivers. that is obviously intended to be a goods and shunting area and is probably on the wrong side of the broken bridge. We are told in SX that there are two goods yards at Camden, one on each side of the river and that they continue to operate to the one on their side of the broken bridge. Thus, the rock docks is either at the end of the CS&L line or at the point just before it crosses the river in Camden itself. We don't have a map of the fine detail of Camden, so we can't say. >Of course these leads to the question how do the cars >move over a dumping spot here and what is the loading >mechanism in both pits - moving under a conveyor (with >what power) or front end loader? > We're not told, and it doesn't really matter. >>The Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad map has been >>updated, and available by scrolling down the "Maps of >>story areas" page. >>Apologies for the delay but 'Family matters' have kept >>me very busy for over 6 months. Hopefully these are >>now sorted. >> >>** Wes. The Snowplow Extra link is still to the >>original. ** >> >>Take note this is to be regarded as 'work in progress' >>and any comments will be read and discussed by Wes and >>myself. >> >>It is probably the 'best fit' as far as locations and >>distances are concerned, that I can come up with. So >>if you think somewhere might be in the wrong place it >>is probably because there is a differing description >>in another book or because Wes's words didn't match >>his initial sketch. Plus as previously stated Wes has >>flipped a few items. (and forgot that he didn't flip >>some others, and therefore with a few mutterings had >>to revise future book(s)). On that the observant will >>have noted the map has been extended northwards, this >>is again required for future publications. >> >>In one of my drafts I did try to put in more detail >>i.e. swamp, forest, scrub, cuttings etc. but then >>realised when shrunk from my 24" widescreen monitor to >>a 17" normal it didn't work. Also as I noted on the >>Spearfish Lake map going from the full detail drawing >>to the compressed web version the colours change, I >>will, given time, do a few experiments. I also need to >>try and make it ebook monotone compatible. >> >>Andy

[> Subject: Re: Camden and Spearfish Lake Railroad Map Author: Andy Haworth [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:16:23 04/28/10 Wed In answer to GeorgeTheCar last, The option to reply directly isn't there. Curious!! I volunteered primarily to draw the Spearfish lake map first, then to re-draw the SX map. Redrawing the SX map was problematical, as Wes had flipped some items East - West. As previously posted location/distance problems occured. If I had done the SX map as a general SFL area map then the ownership, enbargoed section and the LH damaged section could not be marked. And presumably would cause some confusion to first time readers of SX. Having said that Wes has asked for various extra details, like extending north and showing the Little Spearfish river and its associated campsite These I regard as permanent items. Obviously CR# are not, nor is dwelling place ownership, i.e. - Norm Nivens cabin, when did he occupy and when will he move out? Obviously occupied after Next Generation but will he die there or will he be persuaded to move to Judith's in his old age? And could that be before the Spearfish Lake area tales conclude?