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Subject: Grand Canyon raft trips shutdown


Author:
Jon
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Date Posted: 20:32:37 10/02/13 Wed

NPR's "All Things Considered" has been running a story today (Wednesday, 2 October) about a private party that is blocked from getting to the put-in at Lee's Ferry due the shutdown of the National Parks System as part of the Federal Government shutdown.

Gentleman in the story said armed NPS Rangers are stationed at a chain & padlocked gate. The report indicated the gate is at the top of the hill, far away from the parking lot and ramp on the Colorado River.

The gentleman had pulled his son from elementary school for the 20 day trip scheduled to start today. He indicated the Rangers guarding the gate had no information about the fees paid (around $2,000) to the Park Service for this private trip. He estimated the group had around $30,000 in equipment and supplies to make the trip. IIRC, the trip had 18 people in the group.

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[> Subject: Re: Grand Canyon raft trips shutdown


Author:
Jack
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Date Posted: 00:09:59 10/04/13 Fri

Our tax dollars at work...NOT ! Congress has stopped a lot of us from enjoying the national parks. My family will be going to Tennessee next week. The trip has been planed for months. The grand kids were looking forward to seeing the Great Smoky Mountains National Park hopefully congress will work to fund the government by then.

Here is the transcript from the NPR about the grand canyon shut down...


Transcript

MELISSA BLOCK, HOST:

Scott Lee can look down the limestone cliffs and see the Colorado River cutting through the Grand Canyon. But what's maddening is he can't get on the river. Today, Lee was planning to get in a raft and launch a 20-day trip down the Colorado. But his group of 16, including his 13-year-old son, whom he pulled out of school in New Hampshire for this trip of a lifetime, can't get started.

The government shutdown has closed all 401 national parks, including the Grand Canyon. Permits to float through the canyon are notoriously hard to come by. Lee says he'd been trying to get one for at least 10 years. He talked to us earlier today not far from the barricade that now stands between him and his vacation.

SCOTT LEE: The planning for a Grand Canyon river trip is extensive. Not only is it the logistics of gear and boats and food and who's going to go on the trip, but it's the logistics of pulling your kids out of school and how you're going to deal with your job and, you know, how you're going to deal with your house and your pets and everything else that gets involved with, you know, 20 days away from home.

BLOCK: And how much expense is wrapped up in this trip?

LEE: Oh, you know, I mean, I think I've been able to calculate that the 16 of us, just in fees and rental gear and some flights, at a minimum, $30,000 so far.

BLOCK: Well, your group was supposed to be putting in on the Colorado River today. What happened?

LEE: So the national park system has closed and they closed the gates to all the parks. And so, right now, at the entrance to Lee's Ferry, there are park rangers at the gate with a temporary blockade up, that they put up yesterday, keeping American citizens and many other patrons of the park out of the park. So they are not letting us go to the put-in of the river or to the river level to rig our boats and be on our way.

Now, keep in mind, once they let us go down the river, they don't have to deal with us anymore. So all they have to do is let us drive down to the river, but they won't do that.

BLOCK: We should explain, Mr. Lee, that there's no other way for you to get to the river with your boats, right? You have to go through this entrance point.

LEE: That's correct. There's no other way to get to the river. The road of Lee's Ferry goes down to the river level. And we have a lot of boats and we have a lot of equipment, as you can imagine, for 20 days. You know, this is the way we have to go.

BLOCK: So when you got to the entrance to where you need to go put in on the river, what did you hear, what did they tell you?

LEE: There is just a barricade and rangers with guns and they said, sorry, the federal government is closed. We have no more information, but you are not going past this entrance. They won't tell us what the future holds. They won't tell us what's going to happen with our permit. We had prepaid $2,000 to the National Park Service for this permit.

They haven't told us if we're going to get our money back.

BLOCK: You know, it's possible, Mr. Lee, that the rangers just don't know the answers to those questions that you have, right? They're not making the rules.

LEE: No doubt. These rangers here are just doing their job. They're nice people, you know, they're affected by this like everybody else.

BLOCK: We mentioned that you pulled your 13-year-old son out of school to take this trip. Is this a teachable moment in any way? What are you talking about with him?

LEE: Yeah. You know, we're talking about all kinds of things. I think the first thing is patience. But we're also talking about the government. We're talking a lot about the government and how the government runs and how the government's funded and how the government is represented. And in many of our opinions, how the government is not working right now.

You know, certainly the kids are very, very disappointed right now. Will it be a learning experience? I hope so. What we're all going to learn, I'm not sure yet. That's still to be determined.

BLOCK: Well, Mr. Lee, best of luck to you. Thanks for talking with us.

LEE: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

BLOCK: That was Scott Lee of Conway, New Hampshire. He and his son were supposed to begin a 20-day river trip through the Grand Canyon today, but because of the government shutdown, they're camping out in a nearby parking lot.
[> [> Subject: Re: Grand Canyon raft trips shutdown


Author:
Dmitri
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Date Posted: 21:09:24 10/20/13 Sun

I just got back from almost a month in Utah all of which (so far) included the national parks closure period.

I was supposed to do a run on the Green River (a headwaters feeder stream to the Colorado flowing into it above Lake Powell) through Canyonlands National Park starting two days after the Federal shutdown began.

Before that run I did a 7-day 4WD trip in the park and came out on the day the Feds shut down and I was notified that I wouldn't be able to do the river run unless the Feds approved a budget in time. It obviously didn't happen. We found out just a couple days later that we'd be getting a refund of our permit fees. I'm pretty sure that the people in the story below will also get refunds, but not for all the other expenses involved, some of which are even greater than the permit fees. Our river permit expenses were cheap in comparison, about $70, if I remember right. The thousand mile drive to Utah and then the same back home after that cost quite a bit more.

I also had an alternate river to run, just did the section of the Green River down to where I was supposed to put in, using it as a takeout rather than a put in. The section isn't as nice but is still quite similar. The people in the story below didn't have that option.

Utah has I think 5 national parks and lots more national monuments, and much of the area is totally dependent on tourist income from park visitation. I think they were the first to do state funding of the parks (though not all the national monuments) for a 10-day period while the feds got over their squabbles. Arizona did the same for the Grand Canyon, and I think a few other states also followed suit. Unfortunately, it didn't help those who were scheduled to run before the parks reopened -- like me, the people in the story, and many others. I had a very apologetic offer on the phone message machine and in e-mail when I got back home letting me know that I'd be able to reschedule the trip if I want to or get a permit fee refund instead, and I'm sure that the people in the story below probably got that same offer also. Of course, it still doesn't make up for all those other expenses mentioned. But they'll probably get to go soon if they want to. I plan to reschedule for my Green River run, but then I've already done that same exact stretch numerous times already, so it's not as big of a deal to me.

This is not the Park Service's fault, certainly not the employees who have to follow the rules and disallow us entry. They were off work unpaid and most (if any) couldn't collect unemployment for that time, either.

It's just one problem with our "perfect" political system. I plan to do what I can to impeach or recall every last one of my congressmen, senators and house of reps, because of this. They (the fat cats) didn't have any repercussions from this at all other than invective, which is easy for them to ignore. It was a problem only for citizens who elected them, as well as visitors to our country wanting to spend money while here. I don't yet know what I can do to possibly initiate the process of replacing them all, suggestions are welcome.

Dmitri


>Our tax dollars at work...NOT ! Congress has stopped a
>lot of us from enjoying the national parks. My family
>will be going to Tennessee next week. The trip has
>been planed for months. The grand kids were looking
>forward to seeing the Great Smoky Mountains National
>Park hopefully congress will work to fund the
>government by then.
>
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Grand Canyon raft trips shutdown


Author:
Leo
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Date Posted: 21:27:54 10/20/13 Sun

I know what you mean; I'm a great deal closer to "ground zero," in that I work in a Museum on the National Mall, a little closer to the White House than to the Capital. We were down for eighteen days, and even on a "quiet" time like now, we still typically get about 2000 people through the doors, which sounds like 36,000 people just to my building alone.

Unfortunately, it seems like anything useful (read: radical!) would involve something being passed through Congress. I seem to recall it being a pretty ugly thing to try to get a Constitutional Amendment through starting from the States; even worse than trying to get one through by starting it in Congress.

Leo
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Grand Canyon raft trips shutdown


Author:
Dmitri
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Date Posted: 11:19:20 10/23/13 Wed

Leo,

I think it could be done through individual local "grass-roots" recall efforts rather than an all-inclusive "en-mass" attempt, but it would have to be a significant portion of congress critters that it happens to to be very effective. There would be publicity even if just one or two recall events were initiated, especially if successful, but the change of just a few house and/or senate members wouldn't help much in telling the rest that they're not at all serving their constituents' interests with their shenanigans. It takes a mass replacement of a significant number of them to do that and possibly scare the rest into line. Some coordination would possibly help, but organization efforts that are not my strong suit. We need Emily Holst to start it.

>I know what you mean; I'm a great deal closer to
>"ground zero," in that I work in a Museum on the
>National Mall, a little closer to the White House than
>to the Capital. We were down for eighteen days, and
>even on a "quiet" time like now, we still typically
>get about 2000 people through the doors, which sounds
>like 36,000 people just to my building alone.
>
>Unfortunately, it seems like anything useful (read:
>radical!) would involve something being passed through
>Congress. I seem to recall it being a pretty ugly
>thing to try to get a Constitutional Amendment through
>starting from the States; even worse than trying to
>get one through by starting it in Congress.
>
>Leo


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