Create a New Forum Admin Login Member Login Contribute to Voyager Search VoyForums Help Desk VoyForums Exchange VoyForums Directory/Categories VoyForums Homepage VoyForums News FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, [7], 8, 9, 10 ]

Subject: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 20:56:27 10/21/12 Sun I just posted the first chapter of Susan. There are 27 chapters, so this one is going to get us up close to Christmas. Sales on Lulu for hardcovers, epubs, and PDFs have also been enabled. RTF files, mobis, epubs, and PDFs are also available from the Spearfish Lake Tales Store. As the holidays approach and you're looking to give someone a new e-book reader, you might want to consider including some of the stories from Spearfish Lake Tales. I'll be announcing some special deals as the holidays get closer. (In other words, it just happened to cross my mind as I typed the word "Christmas" above!) Very often when I put up a new story there are html bugs that don't show up when I tested it locally. I found several when I put the story up as it is -- they just hadn't shown up here, or if they did, I missed them. I'll be up until about midnight local time, so if you notice something let me know and I'll try to get it fixed. Also, if you want to order a copy of Susan in one of the available formats, I'll be available. Like many stories, there is something of a story behind the story for Susan, but I think I'll hold off on telling it until we've let a few chapters get past and the story is established. With that much said, I'm going to get back to writing. It's a new Bradford Exiles story, by the way, but it will be a while before it gets posted. -- Wes [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Bill [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:15:24 10/21/12 Sun Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the background is located in the state of Bavaria and was one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit.

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:53:39 10/21/12 Sun >Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the >background is located in the state of Bavaria and was >one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit. Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something elaborate! -- Wes

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Arthur Keith [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:36:37 10/21/12 Sun >>Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the >>background is located in the state of Bavaria and was >>one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit. > >Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something >elaborate! > >-- Wes Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect that would be today considered any form of German. You must know that we suffered tremendously under the German occupation and that it often is safer to speak to a Dutchman in any language other than German. Our language is germanic but there has been a separate development of the language since the middle of the 17th century. Arthur.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:52:40 10/21/12 Sun >Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as >being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that >is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect >that would be today considered any form of German. >You must know that we suffered tremendously under the >German occupation and that it often is safer to speak >to a Dutchman in any language other than German. >Our language is germanic but there has been a separate >development of the language since the middle of the >17th century. You're probably right; it sounds strange to me, too, not that I know anything about it other than what I picked up off various websites researching it. I seem to recall the impression I got was that it was pretty much a dying dialect anywhere, and it could well be that only tiny pockets of older people still spoke it in the Netherlands, and probably close to the German border. I just don't know, or at least don't remember now. I do remember that there is some kind of an organization devoted to the preservation of Plattdeutsch in Germany, so it's obviously a dying language there as well. Susan's grandmother's knowledge of it probably predated the widespread language dilution present in the modern era. I do know that Europe can be very complex in terms of languages and dialects, with some spoken in very small areas. It is something we Americans can find difficult to comprehend. -- Wes

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:13:29 10/25/12 Thu >>>Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the >>>background is located in the state of Bavaria and was >>>one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit. >> >>Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something >>elaborate! >> >>-- Wes >Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as >being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that >is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect >that would be today considered any form of German. >You must know that we suffered tremendously under the >German occupation and that it often is safer to speak >to a Dutchman in any language other than German. >Our language is germanic but there has been a separate >development of the language since the middle of the >17th century. > >Arthur. Curious, I speak German and discovered years ago that I could understand people from one corner in the NE of the Netherlands - possibly one of the islands - when they were speaking to each other. They told me where they were from but this is so long ago. Luxembourg also used to speak a German dialect. Parts still do but a lot less than before WW2. I have heard it and don't remember understanding much at all. Parts of the Black Forest area (and probably Switzerland as well) have dialects which vary slightly from village to village.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Arthur Keith [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:30:34 10/28/12 Sun All of these languages are Germanic languages, so there is a certain amount of similarities. But no one will call Dutch a form of German. There is 400+ years of separate development. By the way there are five islands, two of them are part of the province of Noord Holland, two of Friesland, and the last one Groningen. Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a Germanic language. >>>>Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the >>>>background is located in the state of Bavaria and >was >>>>one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit. >>> >>>Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something >>>elaborate! >>> >>>-- Wes >>Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as >>being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that >>is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect >>that would be today considered any form of German. >>You must know that we suffered tremendously under the >>German occupation and that it often is safer to speak >>to a Dutchman in any language other than German. >>Our language is germanic but there has been a separate >>development of the language since the middle of the >>17th century. >> >>Arthur. > >Curious, I speak German and discovered years ago that >I could understand people from one corner in the NE of >the Netherlands - possibly one of the islands - when >they were speaking to each other. They told me where >they were from but this is so long ago. > >Luxembourg also used to speak a German dialect. Parts >still do but a lot less than before WW2. I have heard >it and don't remember understanding much at all. > >Parts of the Black Forest area (and probably >Switzerland as well) have dialects which vary slightly >from village to village.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Allen [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:32:47 10/29/12 Mon >Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion >of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a >Germanic language. No they didn't, they spoke Norman French! Why do you think there are so many outright French words and derived French words in English? While the Normans did originally come from Northern Europe and probably spoke a Germanic language, by 1066 they were totally "Frenchified" [if there is any such word!] and spoke Norman French which is considered a dialect of French. Just as an aside the nearest living language to English is Friesian, from the Friesian Islands in the Northern Netherlands. Allen

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:47:07 10/30/12 Tue >>Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion >>of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a >>Germanic language. > >No they didn't, they spoke Norman French! Why do you >think there are so many outright French words and >derived French words in English? > >While the Normans did originally come from Northern >Europe and probably spoke a Germanic language, by 1066 >they were totally "Frenchified" [if there is any such >word!] and spoke Norman French which is considered a >dialect of French. > >Just as an aside the nearest living language to >English is Friesian, from the Friesian Islands in the >Northern Netherlands. > >Allen Allen, Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had been in England and the rest of the British Isles for well over a thousand years before the Norman French arrived with William the Bastard. Prior to the Angles and Danes most of the people in England were Druids, Celts and Brits, with another set of languages. There were also a lot of Romans left wandering around to from the times of Big Julius. BTW England is derived from Anglesland named after the Angles as they were the most prolific in that area. Ernest

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Allen [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:57:43 11/03/12 Sat > >Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had >been in England and the rest of the British Isles for >well over a thousand years before the Norman French >arrived with William the Bastard. Of course they were! What is your point? The post that I replied to said that the Normans spoke a Germanic language, which by 1066 was not so, they spoke Norman French, as is still spoken in Normandy & Louisiana! Allen

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:50:01 11/04/12 Sun >> >>Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had >>been in England and the rest of the British Isles for >>well over a thousand years before the Norman French >>arrived with William the Bastard. > >Of course they were! What is your point? The post that >I replied to said that the Normans spoke a Germanic >language, which by 1066 was not so, they spoke Norman >French, as is still spoken in Normandy & Louisiana! > >Allen G'day, The statement you responded to was talking about what the English spoke, not the French - quote Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a Germanic language. end quote It speaks of what is spoken in England being a Germanic language prior to the Norman invasion. Ernest

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Skip [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:41:16 10/22/12 Mon >Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the >background is located in the state of Bavaria and was >one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit. As long as you don't try to walk up to it. That's a climb that for me was as bad as the climb to Katadan.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Philip Roberts [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:25:11 10/21/12 Sun Off to a good start, One name error I noticed "... Americans often were, not as Kirsten’s mother was right now." I believe "Kristen's" should be "Susens'" Philip

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:56:57 10/22/12 Mon >Off to a good start, > >One name error I noticed "... Americans often were, >not as Kirsten’s mother was right now." I believe >"Kristen's" should be "Susens'" > >Philip You mean "Susan's" right? Rob

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:00:01 10/22/12 Mon “Ja, Ich eine . . . ” That can't possibly start a German sentence. In place of "eine", you need a verb. “Alles ist in Ordnung,” Idiomatic use here would be to lose that verb, probably because there are too many syllables as is. Of course, these days, and with that age group, "OK" would work just fine in German! (For some real German-English puzzler, consider "Handy" as the canonical German term for a mobile phone - with a nice Englis pronunciation.)

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Gauthier [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:03:03 10/22/12 Mon Great Start. The links to the glossary within chapter one do not work (404). The space before the # need to be removed.

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:14:23 10/22/12 Mon >The links to the glossary within chapter one do not >work (404). >The space before the # need to be removed. Nuts. That's one of those things that works locally but not online. Will get it fixed, but probably not till later today. -- Wes

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:17:43 10/26/12 Fri Zehn und zwansig Ugh. That's not even remotely close. Try "Zwanzig nach zehn", exactly as in English. she didn’t always think in German but she did a lot. That was a habit that was going to take some breaking, if she really wanted to break it at all Thinking in English all the time doesn't bother me all that much, and I never lived there ... Sic transit gloria mundi.” “Huh?” “The glory is departed,” Susan shrugged. “It’s Latin.” And it actually means "thus passes the worldly glory".

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:34:34 10/26/12 Fri Hmm. I hear overweight is more of a problem in the US than in Germany. Plattdeutsch is not an accent. There's a northern Germany kind of accent, but it's nothing like Plattdeutsch - Plattdeutsch is almost a different Language, with significant differences in vocabulary and grammar. Not like central or southern Germany, where the local dialect is much closer to an accent. (Don't know about the East.) At the Dutch-German border regions, there's a lot of Frisian - I don't know how that relates to Plattdeutsch. Up north (where I was born) Danish doesn't relate, I believe. There is a small bit of overlap with English in northern Plattdeutsch, however, I think. Not much here at what I believe is the southern end of Plattdeutsch (Münster/Westfalen). I never learned to speak it, and frankly, reading Dutch (which I also never learned) is much easier!

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Arthur Keith [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:08:46 10/29/12 Mon Reading Dutch is easier than German since we do not hold to grammatical rules any longer. Ever since the 1950's there have been little rules in place, just about the only real one is where to place the verb in a sentence. Arthur Keith >Hmm. I hear overweight is more of a problem in the US >than in Germany. > >Plattdeutsch is not an accent. There's a northern >Germany kind of accent, but it's nothing like >Plattdeutsch - Plattdeutsch is almost a different >Language, with significant differences in vocabulary >and grammar. Not like central or southern Germany, >where the local dialect is much closer to an accent. >(Don't know about the East.) > >At the Dutch-German border regions, there's a lot of >Frisian - I don't know how that relates to >Plattdeutsch. Up north (where I was born) Danish >doesn't relate, I believe. There is a small bit of >overlap with English in northern Plattdeutsch, >however, I think. Not much here at what I believe is >the southern end of Plattdeutsch (Münster/Westfalen). >I never learned to speak it, and frankly, reading >Dutch (which I also never learned) is much easier!

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:36:25 10/31/12 Wed >Reading Dutch is easier than German since we do not Not to this German it isn't. It is, however, probably the easiest language for me to read that I never learned. It's really *very* close to German. Closer than Plattdeutsch.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:54:09 10/29/12 Mon Actually, the separation is between 4th and 5th class, nominal age 10 (with 1st class at nominally 6). You're correct that a number of experts say that's too early, and ought to be maybe two years later. There are more school models than the three traditional ones, and there's usually political strife about creating more such schools (generally the left side of the spectrum) and not (right side). Probably the best known of those is the Gesamtschule, which, as the name suggests, doesn't separate at all, and seems to be fairly popular, that is, I've often heard that the demand there is higher than the supply. "my body _his_ no idea"

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:36:15 11/05/12 Mon “Ah, yes,” Susan shook her head. “Alles ist in Ordnung. That may be the German mantra.” Hmm. This is definitely wrong, but it is not obvious what the right version would be. I can't think of an idiom that would fit here. Approving idioms about bureaucracy? Well, maybe some survived from the fifties ...

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Drommy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:08:00 11/07/12 Wed Wes, What a great story! I love both the overall theme and initial plot twists. Looking forward to the subsequent developments. There's only one minor snag from my standpoint: "Alles ist in Ordnung" is a very formal turn of phrase that I would not associate with a young adult, even when they're speaking Hoch Deutsch. I would see it more as what a policeman would say after they stopped someone, checked their documents and couldn't find anything to take exception to. A more colloquial way of conveying the same meaning would be "Alles klar" (i.e. "I understand and agree") All the rest is fine. Regards, Drommy

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wexwiz543 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:01:58 11/07/12 Wed The term was learned from her Grandmother. Consequently would be from a more formal generation. Wexwiz >Wes, >What a great story! I love both the overall theme and >initial plot twists. Looking forward to the subsequent >developments. > >There's only one minor snag from my standpoint: >"Alles ist in Ordnung" is a very formal turn of >phrase that I would not associate with a young adult, >even when they're speaking Hoch Deutsch. I would see >it more as what a policeman would say after they >stopped someone, checked their documents and couldn't >find anything to take exception to. > >A more colloquial way of conveying the same meaning >would be "Alles klar" (i.e. "I understand and agree") > >All the rest is fine. > >Regards, > >Drommy

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Drommy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:59:49 11/07/12 Wed >The term was learned from her Grandmother. >Consequently would be from a more formal generation. > >Wexwiz > Wexwiz, the point is that no one fluent in German would use it colloquially, irrespective of generational barriers. It just sounds artificial. In any case, the actual expression is "Alles in Ordnung" (you don't need the "ist"). Don't take my word for it, just ask a native German. Anyway, that was my 0.02 Euro contribution to this wonderful story. Keep up the great work! Drommy

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:36:49 11/07/12 Wed >>The term was learned from her Grandmother. >>Consequently would be from a more formal generation. >> >>Wexwiz >> > >Wexwiz, the point is that no one fluent in German >would use it colloquially, irrespective of >generational barriers. It just sounds artificial. In >any case, the actual expression is "Alles in Ordnung" >(you don't need the "ist"). > >Don't take my word for it, just ask a native German. Or in fact, read what this native German has already commented on that topic.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Boyd Percy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:33:05 11/07/12 Wed >>>The term was learned from her Grandmother. >>>Consequently would be from a more formal generation. >>> >>>Wexwiz >>> >> >>Wexwiz, the point is that no one fluent in German >>would use it colloquially, irrespective of >>generational barriers. It just sounds artificial. In >>any case, the actual expression is "Alles in Ordnung" >>(you don't need the "ist"). >> >>Don't take my word for it, just ask a native German. > >Or in fact, read what this native German has already >commented on that topic. This interesting conversation has prompted me to recall two older books by Wes. No profound observations though. In "Absent Friend", six men from Spearfish Lake return to Vietnam in 1990-91 to search for the remains of Henry Toivo, the dead fiancee of Susan's mother. They are accompanied by a Vietnamese-American woman,Binky Augsberg who goes as an interpreter. While in Vietnam, one of Vietnamese helpers the group hires remarks to Binky that she speaks Vietnamese with an American accent though it is not as bad as her American husband, Steve. In "Blue Beauty", Trey arrives in Florida driving a car with Kansas license plates. Buddha, who has a good ear for dialect, is a little confused by Trey's speech. He detects a Kansas dialect overlaying someone from Indiana or Ohio. It makes one wonder how much the German accent of Susan's grandmother was corrupted by all the American English and Yopper going on around her.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:24:32 11/16/12 Fri >>>The term was learned from her Grandmother. >>>Consequently would be from a more formal generation. >>> >>>Wexwiz >>> >> >>Wexwiz, the point is that no one fluent in German >>would use it colloquially, irrespective of >>generational barriers. It just sounds artificial. In >>any case, the actual expression is "Alles in Ordnung" >>(you don't need the "ist"). >> >>Don't take my word for it, just ask a native German. > >Or in fact, read what this native German has already >commented on that topic. "In Ordnung", "Alles Paletti". I have never been to Regensburg though so I can't say what would be in use there.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:34:18 11/07/12 Wed I think the only real problem with the Abi - and I'm not completely certain that part hasn't changed since I took it around 1980 - is that the points don't just come from the exams, but also from courses in the last two years, making it pretty hard to get there with only one year available. Back then, the exam consisted of two written and two oral ones, in four subjects selected before those last two years - typically the two one likes best ("Leistungskurs", with double the normal hours, sort of an AP course, and the written tests at the end) and whatever two others fill out the necessary requirements. For me, that was maths, physics, Latin, and religion (avoiding sports) - I'm told the rules got changed so those would no longer actually fill the requirements in later years (probably need something like German in there, too, I don't recall the details; the rules were already somewhat arcane back then). In fact, the English Wikipedia article on Abitur seems to have more details on this than the German one (see under "Scoring").

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:21:57 11/09/12 Fri Ok, next chapter ... if it’s Alles ist in Ordnung with you.” This one should clearly just be "in Ordung".

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:57:58 11/14/12 Wed Ok, chapter 11 ... “Alles ist in Ordnung,” Susan told her. Not impossible, though I'd think it significantly more likely to hear something like "Alles bestens" (everything (of) the best), or even just "Bestens". “Alles ist in Ordnung, I can do it,” Susan told him. Now this is again one of the ones where you want NO VERB. (Just like above, I didn't write "It is not impossible".)

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:37:46 11/16/12 Fri And another chapter. only interested in kinder, kirke, und küche. At the very least, that'd be "Kinder, Küche, Kirche" (Kaiser Wilhelm II); however, these days, it's commonly called "die drei K" ("the three K's"), and usually from people opposed to the concept. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche - it's seen much like "barefoot and pregnant". After all, the current conservative-libertarian Bundesregierung (German federal cabinet) has 6 women to 10 men (not exactly following the three K's), including a female chancellor and conservative party leader. (And the lib party leader and minister of economics and technology and vice chancellor was born in South Vietnam, and the lib foreign minister and former party leader and vice chancellor is openly gay. Sure sounds like our right side is left of the US left side. But then, the current pope is also German, and he seems pretty close to the US right.) For that matter, we also have two conservative female governors (and one female social democrat, and on male green) among sixteen states. Not that that keeps conservatives from trying to subtly push women back to the three K's, but they tend to get a lot of push-back. But I think this has gotten log enough, so I'll stop before this turns into a PhD discussion.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Drommy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:40:39 11/23/12 Fri Wes, Another little thing from today's Chapter 15: "yonsei" actually means 4th generation (the root word "yon" means four) away from the home country. So the explanation in the tooltip is actually incorrect. In this case it would be Mizuki that is the 5th generation descendant or "gosei". Now digging into my schoolbook Japanese.... :-) Drommy

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:34:01 11/24/12 Sat [Hmm, seems I forgot to actually post this?] Another day, another chapter. Macht nichts: Literally, “It means nothing.” No, actually, it's literally "_makes_ nothing". You know, like in "makes no difference" (which over here would be "macht keinen Unterschied"). But, macht nichts – Riverside would do This works, though I'd probably use "egal" there (I don't think there's an exact equivalent, the usage is somewhat different, but it's close to "equal").

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:05:57 11/30/12 Fri Wes, Around which chapter will you be posting the "story behind the story" for Susan? This story has touched some issues I'm somewhat familiar with - but of course not as bad as Susan faced. Then again, considering it's Spearfish Lake, it would not have surprised me for there to be a minor international incident as a result of events already posted on your site. Rob

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:43:01 11/30/12 Fri It just slipped my mind. It is this: At one point I'd envisioned a whole series of books with Susan being the major character -- i.e, Susan in College, Susan in China, and so forth. At the time my daughter was in the Peace Corps in China we'd sort of worked out a deal where I'd supply the plot and characterization, and where she'd supply the local color. Sadly, it didn't work out; she met her future husband there and helping her dad write a book sank well down on her priority list. I have since tried to enlist her help, but she now says that Susan's experiences would have to mesh with hers so much that she's uncomfortable about it -- and my daughter is a very private person so I understand. Bummer, since I think it could be a very good book, but I don't want to try to write it without my daughter's cooperation. I'm not ruling out a future book on Susan that tells college and China experiences as back story, but I haven't started it yet. -- Wes >Wes, >Around which chapter will you be posting the "story >behind the story" for Susan? > >This story has touched some issues I'm somewhat >familiar with - but of course not as bad as Susan >faced. Then again, considering it's Spearfish Lake, >it would not have surprised me for there to be a minor >international incident as a result of events already >posted on your site. > >Rob

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:03:40 12/07/12 Fri [cell phone] She’d never had one, and it would have been useless to her in Germany anyway. But that was then. Now that she was back in the States things were different. Given teenage cell phone culture (which I believe was already strong around 2004), it would seem to me that far from being useless, she'd most likely consider it essential. Of course, to be able to use it on both sides of the pond without going broke, she'd need to have plans with local providers ... and presumably a phone capable of doing both GSM and whatever the US system was (I forget and there seems to be no reference from the Wikipedia GSM article) or at least both EU and US GSM frequency bands. As for uni selection, I could be mistaken, but my impression is that unless you're into something a bit exotic, or maybe you specifically want a job in academia, the exact choice of uni is much less important over here in Germany. One aspect of that is ... let's just say that I'd never heard about diploma mills before I got much contact with US people, and it took me a while to believe they're real.

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:00:51 12/07/12 Fri I suspect that Susan wasn't often in situations where she would need to make a call in Germany that she was away from her friends an/or there wasn't a phone she could use. If Germany had no contract prepaid cell phones then it might have been advantageous to get one there - and probably a lot easier (and possibly cheaper) than trying to bring a phone from the USA and get service there. To me that last would almost be the same as bringing hot dogs to eat at a pizza place. As for the reason she hasn't gotten a cell phone yet ... She's been either to busy or not thinking about it. Rob >[cell phone] > >She’d never had one, and it would have been useless to >her in Germany anyway. But that was then. Now that she >was back in the States things were different. > >Given teenage cell phone culture (which I believe was >already strong around 2004), it would seem to me that >far from being useless, she'd most likely consider it >essential. > >Of course, to be able to use it on both sides of the >pond without going broke, she'd need to have plans >with local providers ... and presumably a phone >capable of doing both GSM and whatever the US system >was (I forget and there seems to be no reference from >the Wikipedia GSM article) or at least both EU and US >GSM frequency bands. > > >As for uni selection, I could be mistaken, but my >impression is that unless you're into something a bit >exotic, or maybe you specifically want a job in >academia, the exact choice of uni is much less >important over here in Germany. One aspect of that is >... let's just say that I'd never heard about diploma >mills before I got much contact with US people, and it >took me a while to believe they're real.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Deadly Ernest [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:59:14 12/07/12 Fri G'day Wes, I know you're like me and don't start to post until AFTER the story is all said and done. I really like that as both a writer and a reader, however it sometimes gets me in the rear. Like this ongoing internal war Susan has about what to do for a living. I know Australia is not the same as the USA, but a lot like it it in many ways, and even harder to get to Europe from as far as work is concerned. Yet I know a few people who looked at this and ended up spending most of their lives travelling because they did just as Cat does in Cattail, they're qualified English teachers and also qualified linguists with German, French, and one or more other languages. They usually work overseas teaching English as a second language and sometime working as translators. One even works part time as a tour guide for tourists in Europe. Anyway, at the moment I really feel like writing to Susan and telling her to become an English teacher and translator. Damn you for making her seem so real. Ernest

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:02:38 12/10/12 Mon and I never even heard of German being taught in high school.”and I never even heard of German being taught in high school.” Hmm. I'm anything but an expert on Japan, but I seem to recall hearing something about that ... but the only two Japanese I ever met professionally - OK, one was a representative for a Japanese business to Britain, and spoke fairly good English; the other came from Japan, and it seems his English was so bad, not only could I not understand him, but neither could the other. Still, I do know that German classical composers are big in Japan - it almost seems more Japanese learn to play their music than Germans! On the other hand, a Chinese prof who once rented a room from us did speak German - probably doesn't say much. On the third hand, Germany does a lot of business with China. And Japan does a lot of business with us. I don't know ... Well - speaking of yesterday - at least they're all metric :-) As for ESL, duh! I should have thought of that myself - I've heard from several of those over time. Other ideas: journalist working for German media internationally, might work. Or development aid worker.

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: khms [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:24:55 12/19/12 Wed Interesting. First, in the last chapter, Albburg sounded completely atypical from any German public uni I ever heard about (and I don't think we have enough snobby nobility left to fill even a small uni, let alone the very idea of a public uni that sounds like an US religious college), and now the concept of a jock-free US uni ... some tough suspension-of-disbelief stuff there!

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:42:27 12/19/12 Wed >Interesting. > >First, in the last chapter, Albburg sounded completely >atypical from any German public uni I ever heard about >(and I don't think we have enough snobby nobility left >to fill even a small uni, let alone the very idea of a >public uni that sounds like an US religious college), >and now the concept of a jock-free US uni ... some >tough suspension-of-disbelief stuff there! There are actually a few jock free colleges although their number is dwindling. I went to one myself, but they've since sold themselves down the river. But come on, this is fiction, after all -- and in this area, maybe even fantasy . . . -- Wes

[> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Boyd Percy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:00:53 12/21/12 Fri >I just posted the first chapter of Susan. There >are 27 chapters, so this one is going to get us up >close to Christmas. > >Sales on Lulu for hardcovers, epubs, and PDFs have >also been enabled. RTF files, mobis, epubs, and PDFs >are also available from the >target=_blank >href="http://www.spearfishlaketales.com/store.htm">Spea >rfish Lake Tales Store. > >As the holidays approach and you're looking to give >someone a new e-book reader, you might want to >consider including some of the stories from Spearfish >Lake Tales. I'll be announcing some special deals as >the holidays get closer. (In other words, it just >happened to cross my mind as I typed the word >"Christmas" above!) > >Very often when I put up a new story there are html >bugs that don't show up when I tested it locally. I >found several when I put the story up as it is -- they >just hadn't shown up here, or if they did, I missed >them. I'll be up until about midnight local time, so >if you notice something let me know and I'll try to >get it fixed. Also, if you want to order a copy of >Susan in one of the available formats, I'll be >available. > >Like many stories, there is something of a story >behind the story for Susan, but I think I'll >hold off on telling it until we've let a few chapters >get past and the story is established. > >With that much said, I'm going to get back to writing. >It's a new Bradford Exiles story, by the way, but it >will be a while before it gets posted. > >-- Wes This was another good story. It would be good to read about Susan a few years down the road. Being out on your own has a way of shifting one's priorities without a safety net of parents or family to pick you up when life knocks you down.

[> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:40:46 12/21/12 Fri >This was another good story. It would be good to read >about Susan a few years down the road. Being out on >your own has a way of shifting one's priorities >without a safety net of parents or family to pick you >up when life knocks you down. Ditto. I have had some experiences of changing schools between two countries. In a few cases, I had to do extra projects and take some tests since the curriculum for one country included some subjects that were not included in the other one. Most of the time, for those courses I actually took, I had to get an official translation of my transcript - along with an explanation of exactly what was covered in a particular course. Most of the time it was arranged that the official translation would be done by someone approved by an consulate from the country I needed the grades. Gingrich not wanting to accept Susan's grades overseas was a type of situation I didn't encounter personally. I do know of one exchange student who went to class, but they just sat quietly in her chair reading or writing some letters. In remembering conversations with them, I got the impression they had fulfilled most of the graduation requirements by the end of her sophomore year. I later met other former exchange students who were better equipped to function in another country. In Brazil there is a test called Vestibular that serves as an entrance exam for all universities. When enrolling for that test you have to declare a major. For each major there are a predefined number of slots, and only the top candidates for each major can enroll. For instance, one year in a certain university there were 35 slots but over 350 candidates for a certain major. The first phase of the Vestibular eliminated all but the top 105 candidates by testing their general knowledge of the high school curriculum using a multiple choice type test in covering ten subjects. The remaining candidates were tested in three subjects that were more related to that particular major, and they had to write an essay about an given topic "Artificial insemination creates fatherless children" for instance. The results of both rounds of testing were then used to place the candidates in order, with the first 35 candidates being accepted into the program. The candidate that scored 36th on the list would have a chance to enroll if one of the first 35 informed the university that they were going elsewhere. One year, in one of the most competitive programs one of the candidates who got in was a former exchange student from the US. Rob

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Doug [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:54:55 12/24/12 Mon it was bad enough changing schools between provinces in Canada several times - I would have had to do that between countries ;) and I did it 4 times

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting Author: Doug [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:56:24 12/24/12 Mon >it was bad enough changing schools between provinces >in Canada several times - I would have had to do that >between countries ;) and I did it 4 times I should look at what I type .. I would have hated to do that between countries ...........