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Subject: submission tournament - dream team Author: Shawn F. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 20:27:17 09/18/04 Sat what do youguys think about think about a local dream team? If we could get a team of top level guys together to compete at a national level in the team division. Not sure about weight classes though. Joe Hurst Greg Thompson Guy Pendergrass (I hope I spelled the last name right!) Scott Shields Luis Togno Jeff Jimmo Aitor (this guy is awesome!) Scott (from Joe's place) All TOP LEVEL GUYS! what do you guys think, of course the trick is getting these guys in the same place and getting the to agree to compete. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: submission tournament - dream team Author: Guy [Edit] Date Posted: 10:18:50 09/19/04 Sun First of all thanks for the compliment, for even placing me on such a list. I think it's a good thought, having the local guys represent NC as a whole. Several of these guys have known each other for a long time. However, the barrier is not only geography but also the fact that these guys represent different teams. Like you said, the hard part would be getting together and commit to training to prepare for such an endeavor. I'll definetly think several other local NC guys could be added to this list! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: submission tournament - dream team Author: Shawn F. [Edit] Date Posted: 23:29:12 09/19/04 Sun congrats to all you guys that got promoted. this is what i'm talking about though. there is so much talent here in nc. i know that you guys don't live close by, but it sure would be great if you all could go and represent in a national naga tournament. everyone on my list are incredible grapplers. Guy, i have never trained with you but your are supposed to be fantastic. i have seen greg, joe and Aitor fight...wow! i have trained with jeff jimmo and scott shields and luis togno. all top level guys in every way! don't you fellas think that they should form a nc team? anyone? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Add me to the list..... Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 09:32:16 09/22/04 Wed .......as a waterboy. Seriously....I'll hand out towels and high quality H20 in those little cone shaped cups. =) On the real...all those guys have solid reputations as great competitors. And since you haven't seen Guy compete, you should really check him out sometime. I had the honor of officiating a match between him and his twin at the MAGA event in 2003. It freaked me out watching a mirror image trying to tap itself out. Those guys are so slick on the mat that it made me sick. I literally broke down into tears after the match and had to go to the bathroom and throw up. It made me realize that I will never be that fluid on the mat. In closing, you need to see those brothers roll. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Add me to the list..... Author: Brad [Edit] Date Posted: 12:02:51 09/22/04 Wed I roll with Rob and Guy at least twice a week, and from experience, i don't believe there is anyone in the state that can beat them in there weight class. But at most of the tournaments around here in NC, most of the time they are forced to bump up to higher weight classes, because of the lack of competitors there size. At there weight they would be tough for anyone to beat. I think if we had a dream team there would be a few more people to add. People off the top of my head that won't mentioned include. Billy Dowey, very tough competitor,. only a purple, but rolls like a black belt. Another really tough guy is Jacob Whitfield, i would deffiantly include him, if there was such a team. Whitfield is a very skilled in wrestling and jiu jitsu, and has some awesome takedowns. Also i might include Ro Brower on this list, does more of the NHB, but also is a great grappler, very strong guy. Brad [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Add me to the list..... Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 13:55:13 09/22/04 Wed If it's Honeybun eating contest........Im a 12th degree Blackbelt.....My dream team would be Myself Fat Albert The Big Show Emmanule Yarbourgh (UFC 3 ) And any Fat lady that Sings (I can hear Billy now....."Your Mom") But that's how the cookie crumbles [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Add me to the list..... Author: Ryan Hoover [Edit] Date Posted: 13:55:53 09/22/04 Wed What's their weight class? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Weight? Author: Guy [Edit] Date Posted: 14:09:32 09/22/04 Wed If you are referring to guy and rob, we weigh 150lbs. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Weight? Author: Ryan [Edit] Date Posted: 14:20:27 09/22/04 Wed Cool, just curious. Ses, I finally got the tape (package was mangled, but intact.) I'll let you know my thoughts ASAP. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Add me to the list..... Author: Guy [Edit] Date Posted: 14:05:26 09/22/04 Wed Thanks for the compliment steve! I remember that match up in Greenville, you did an execellent job reffing :) As for brad, this guy keeps getting better all the time. In 2004 he has jump to the challenge and faced some awesome guys in competiton. Guys like marcos avellan, nakapan, and Efrain Ruiz. But, I would have to agree with brad and say that several guys could be added to the list like billy, whitfield, and ro. Not to mention brad himself. And spencer canup was very impressive at the last Holy Grail. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Dream Team-Team ROC! Author: Rubin [Edit] Date Posted: 17:13:47 09/22/04 Wed Dream Team-Team ROC! It occurs to me that allot the these guys that should be on the “Dream Team” is on Team Roc’s Team. and they do a good job of representing “Team Roc” “Royce Gracie” and “North Carolina” on their own. Our teams may get along, go to each others seminars and not pee publicly(most of the time) on each others schools. But competitions is something different, and training styles are different, and loyalty is important. And do you think that Royce Gracie, Gustavo Machado , Daniel Morales, and who knows more to approve of a combined team. Has this been done in other states? And we are not talking about a team like most would consider a team, this would be a North Carolina All-Star Team. kind of like getting the South Carolina All-Star Baseball Team enter in to an regular, though national, Baseball Tournament. If you win the event, everybody would say, “Damn they had to combine all the teams in NC to beat our other “Real” School Teams.” it would be great to see our NC guys roll, but at expense of being “discounted.” and could you trust the other teams to show up. if someone didn’t show up form your own team you could take them out back and beat them with a big stick. well in some counties you can do that, but if some of the others don’t show up you have put your life, training, and reputations on the line. I think the word “Dream” is the ideal word of this team. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dream Team-Team ROC! Author: Shawn F. [Edit] Date Posted: 21:50:25 09/22/04 Wed yeah well of course this is ideal. it's a "dream team". i was only saying that it would be great "if" all these guy could get together and compete on the same team. i know it don't look like that is goin happen. there so many really talented guys out there i had to pick just a few that i know best. nc is full of really tough guys, i just hate that guys around here don't get the respect that others do. just a dream, that's it [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dream Team-Team ROC! Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 09:34:56 09/23/04 Thu Shawn, You sound like you have a passion for NC fighters as I do. I've train pro boxers since 1995 and when I first started going to some of the big shows (PPV, Showtime, HBO-mainly undercards) I would hear some of the other trainers refer to NC fighters in a negative way.......this made me angry (although, I was raise in Plainfield, NJ till 15) this is where Ive made my home for the last 20yrs. Here in Sanford a newspaper reporter once wrote story about how Sanford would never produce a world champion in individual sports, like tennis, boxing, wrestling and so on. This fueled my passion to see NC fighters do well. In my world I already have a dream team I call it NC Elite.....NC=North Carolina. Elite=Taken from Greg Thompson's / Brent Pearce show E.V.T. Elite Vale Tudo. This is Where I met some of the most talented groups in NC......funny we all had to go to Va to find home. I met Team R.O.C. in full, Triangle BJJ in full, Mario Larosa (Greensboro), Danny Daniels (Durham), Joe Hurst, Dean Pyles (MT.Airy), Several Groups from Ft. Bragg (no real team name). My very own personal Goal is to help anyone in NC become a world champion....and they don't have to be from my gym. I feel that it is healthy for us to compete against one another without personal feelings involved. And I also think it's natural that we support one another. Ex: Ringskilz Vs. Team R.O.C. (Various Gyms) GregThompson and Brent Peirce have both corned me Personally at two diffrent events. Billy Dowey and Myself 4 weeks ago taught at Robbie Adams School in Fuquay while he was out of town. Rob and Guy Pendergrass, have trained, Fought and Taught workshops to my guys (Even helped one fighter get ranked in BJJ under Gustavo) Mario Larosa and his Guys have competed against us and yet have come over for training in yrs past. (After one training camp one of his fighters Won the E.V.T. middleweight Championship) Dean Pyles in the past has showcased my fighters on his show as the Main Event....as well as Team R.O.C. (Risky move for a promoter with fighters on the card but a classy gesture.) The point is we should go to eachother's workshop's and seminar's when there is NO Conflict of Intrest and team up when there is No conflict of Intrest. And hold Competitions when there is No Conflict of Intrest......John Reece has merged his Muay Thai team with Team R.O.C. about 1 yr and a half ago.....we challenged eachother We provided the Rules, the Place and Ring. They provided the Ref, Headgear and Gloves......They won 1, we won 1 and had one Draw....it was an In-house event.....but we got what we needed out of it.....One of Reece's Guy's went on to win his Division at the WKA trials shortly after that event. If you look at the big Picture this is the Dream Team, because we train together and compete against one another we actually raise the bar and standards for acheivement. NC is becoming a hot bed for MMA and Grappling training There about 5 forums that I check out.....and every once in awhile, I hear good things about different NC schools, some I didn't even know existed. I got nuthin but Love for NC. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dream Team-Team ROC! Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 00:34:53 10/12/04 Tue my thanks to everyone that mentioned me above... but to put me in the same class as greg or billy is pretty ridiculous... but then again, to put greg into the same class within anyone not named graice is pretty ridiculous [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dream Team-Team ROC! Author: Twister [Edit] Date Posted: 15:14:12 10/15/04 Fri All of you guys are bastards! No one mentioned me. Just cause I am old just broke both arms and no one mentions me. I see how you guys are. A guy stays off the forum and you guys forget all about him.............:-) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: submission tournament - dream team Author: Billy D. [Edit] Date Posted: 18:02:02 09/23/04 Thu I agree that there are alot of talented guys around NC,but not all of them compete.Even on the list that Shawn F made,only Guy and Aitor compete regularly, to my knowledge.Greg Thompson only gets to compete when his schedule allows witch unfortunatly is not often (I wish it was more often but he's all resonsible and shit).I've seen Joe Hurst compete one time and heard of him competing two other times.The only time I've ever heard of Luis Togno competing was a couple of years ago at the Mundials (he did'nt do very well).I don't believe Scott Shields competes any more.Jeff Jimmo,I know nothing about him,but have heard good things.I think I met Scott last weekend(if he's the guy that trains with Mike and Snake that just got his brown belt),tough guy,really good on the mat,and a nice guy.In oder to judge some one as a competitor,you have to see them compete.Most of the guys on the list do not. I train with guys that don't do very well at the gym,and win every competition they go to.I also train with guys that kick everybodys ass at the gym and never do well in competition.Competing is totaly different from training. I tell you what,my dream tournament would be every school in NC bringing a team to compete.Instructors competing and everything.I'm not just talking about once a year,regularly. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: submission tournament - dream team Author: Shawn F. [Edit] Date Posted: 22:51:01 09/23/04 Thu you are right. most of those guys don't compete anymore but i wish they would. i understand they all have responsiblies and are getting older. i know jeff jimmo used to compete years ago, same as scott shields. now they just train and teach and do seminars. i have never seen luis togno compete either but he is a handfull with the gi on. i know that greg is a very busy guy and doesn't have much time. guys like aitor and guy p. are awesome to watch. i think they are going to make big names for themselves in a few years. having everyone get together and compete would be great, although i know this would not happen, but one can dream. i'm just a big fan of martial arts and wish that all of these guys, as well as the others mentioned before would get the respect they deserve. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Who will be the dream team of tomorrow? Next 5 to 10 years? Author: Brian [Edit] Date Posted: 15:53:23 09/29/04 Wed Who will be the dream team of tomorrow? Next 5 to 10 years? We have listed some great talent in their own right, but who is training the BJJ/Submission grappling guys of tomorrow. Who is training the athletes that appear to be able to take the top spots in the next 5 to 10 years? I’m not really talking about having a good kid’s program at a school, those athletes come and go. I am asking re there any families that are doing it the “Gracie Way” when it is coming to training their son’s and daughters too? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: dream team of tomorrow? Good Question. Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 08:35:01 09/30/04 Thu On a Local level, Aito Canup Ro Brower Jake Whitfield John Gardner Brandon Garner *These guy's I know are Active MMA fighters, that's where my predjudice begins and ends..........but you can really say that anybody who Under age 35 can possibly be the team of tommorrow : look at Randy Couture, Mario Sperry and Bustamante. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: dream team of tomorrow? Good Question. Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 14:25:30 09/30/04 Thu Jake Whitfield is VERY impressive. Just don't tell him I said that. Also, whatever happened to Seth Horn? He was tearing stuff up in amateur MMA and then dropped out of sight. He was awesome. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Those are still today's dream team, I mean tommorow. Author: Brian [Edit] Date Posted: 20:16:29 09/30/04 Thu Those are still today's dream team, we listed them, I mean tommorow. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Who's Making Noise Author: SES [Edit] Date Posted: 08:31:36 10/01/04 Fri The biggest problem here in NC is the Seperation we have in terms of distance and intrest. Many of the Gyms compete on different circuts, so we don't recognize many of the potential young lions in our area. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who's Making Noise Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 17:27:23 10/13/04 Wed jay speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who's Making Noise-Who is jay speight? Author: Brian [Edit] Date Posted: 15:18:56 10/14/04 Thu Whitfield i have never heard of him? Who is jay speight? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who's Making Noise-Who is jay speight? Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 15:34:06 10/14/04 Thu Jay Speight is the son of James Speight. James runs/owns the Extreme Gym and All American Martial Arts in Greenville, NC. Jay is around 10-11 years old and is one of the most fluid youth grapplers I have ever seen. To be a kid, he sure does seem to handle his mat experience well. I know he has won some regional and national titles. If I am not mistaken, he has a world title (NAGA) in there as well. As a matter of fact, Jay's youth teammates are pretty good as well. Tom Leavy has a rubber guard like a young Eddie Bravo and Christy Speight (Jay's sister) is very good on the mat as well. It helps to have good training partners. James Speight came outta no where and has produced some of the best youth grapplers in the country. They are definitely the future of Submission Grappling in not only NC, but the USA as well. Just my humble opinion. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who's Making Noise-Who is jay speight? Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 15:36:34 10/14/04 Thu Dang......I made a typo in the last message. It's Tim Leavy, not Tom Leavy. That's what I get for typing so fast. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who's Making Noise-Who is jay speight? Author: Brian [Edit] Date Posted: 16:45:16 10/14/04 Thu I did a search for these kids on the net; I noticed that they were the #1 & #2 in the nation last year (source) mma.tv. Do they still compete, much? Don't see anything this year on mma.tv? I saw on the internet that jay got 3rd at the grail? and that Tim got 2nd at the grail? Who beat them? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not making excuses but.... Author: James Speight [Edit] Date Posted: 10:40:04 10/15/04 Fri Two brothers from Royce Gracie Henderson NC, beat Jay & Tim. Not making excuses but the kid that beat Jay did out weigh him by 20 pounds. When you are 79 pounds that makes a difference. And the divisions were set up by grade level, that means a possible 4 to 6 year age difference, depending on if you started early or late. Jay started early in school. And no we didn’t compete as much this year as we did last year. and will not much more next year other than local events. I watched my son compete and I watched him get sick before a big event and I watched him lose to extremely underweight 13 & 14 year olds. And I just had enough. He was only 10 years old. He loves to train so much and I feel he will have so much to offer to this sport. But not at the expense of his childhood. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not making excuses but.... Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 12:27:00 10/15/04 Fri jay is a tremendous grappler and if he continues to improve at the rate he is now, he will be THE man by the time he's 16... ok maybe not, i'll still be around, but he'll be damn good! and i agree with james, we were at almost all the same tournaments last year and like jay i won the mma.tv ranked thing last year, but it was just so a pain in the butt and i got so drained from traveling and competing all the time [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not making excuses but.... Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 08:51:35 10/16/04 Sat James, as a dad, I completely understand what you mean about Jay losing some of his childhood. You can't force the kids to do anything. If you do, then it'll take the fun out of it for sure. At that point, what is it all worth anyways? I want to get my sons into training, but they just don't have the drive for commitment at this point. We wrestle around every now and then, but it is mainly for fun. They just don't have the patience for regular training. What they really like to do is skateboard. And honestly, I had never paid much attention to it before. But the other day I had a chacne to relly watch what they could do and I was impressed. I mean...I would've busted my rump just trying to stand on the freaking thing! My boys were doing all kinds of turns and flips and stuff. Geez! And I never knew. Now I know what they like and I am gonna support them on it. And before this turns into the NC Parenting forum....LOL....... Well guys, it looks like the NC scene is heating up so much that you won't have to travel so far to get good competition anymore. The only thing is that there isn't a solid system of unified rules for these grappling events. However, from the exposure that these events are beginning to get, I don't think that's gonna hurt to bad. That's what sets our area apart from the northeast. NAGA and GQ are pretty dominant in that area. Their ruling and ranking systems are pretty much the norm. It is rare that they do make it down here, and when they do, people tend to like it. BUT, you can't really be a "contender" in their circuits unless you travel all the time. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Steve do you let your sons dress like the skate bums, I see around town? Author: James Speight [Edit] Date Posted: 17:45:59 10/16/04 Sat Steve do you let your sons dress like the skate bums, I see around town? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Steve do you let your sons dress like the skate bums, I see around town? Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 10:48:06 10/17/04 Sun Only if the skate bum clothes come from Wal-Mart. ;) Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Steve do you let your sons dress like the skate bums, I see around town? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 00:47:43 10/18/04 Mon i would personally prefer rorions igjjf rules above all the others [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Rules? Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 09:27:42 10/19/04 Tue What are the Rules?????? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 17:05:08 10/21/04 Thu 30 minute time limit... matches end by submission or when one fighter scores a total of 12 points. no advantages, 3 points for passing the guard, four points for mount or rear mount, one point for a sweep. no takedown points. if a fighter is on top for three minutes and cannot pass the guard, the two fighter switch positions and the bottom man gets to be on top inside the guard. if two fighters are standing for more than three minutes, the referee flips a coin to decide who starts on top and who starts on bottom. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 19:47:40 10/21/04 Thu Sounds fair!!!! but it also sounds like one long tournament if you don't get the submission.....that being said it would seem to encourage submission and not stalling. Is that the theory behind it??? In addition it would also suggest that you increase your technical skills, endurance and patience. Set me straight Jacob if Im wrong. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 00:39:18 10/22/04 Fri nope you've understood exactly, the point is that you cant stall, you have to go out there and go for the submission and try to finish the fight because if not you're just going to get tired and be on the mat all day [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: Scott Shields [Edit] Date Posted: 10:15:53 10/22/04 Fri Very Interesting rules! I was talking with Erik Paulson yesterday and he is thinking about putting together a tournament as well. The rules are quite different though. 2 points for the takedown, 3 points for the takedown (if both of your opponents legs come off the ground (big throw), and 4 points for submission! That's it! If you get the submission then you must start back on your feet. This seems to favor the wrestlers quite a bit, but Erik says that BJJ guys need to improve their takedowns and this would force them to do so. What do you guys think about them rules! LOL Personally, I don't care much for them but I understand what he is going for. Thanks, Scott Shields [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 15:45:33 10/22/04 Fri i think thats absolutely idiotic... next your going to tell me he's holding a kickboxing tournament and they get 4 points for a ko then have to start over... no way, a submission ends the match [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: Scott Shields [Edit] Date Posted: 18:50:15 10/22/04 Fri I think it favors the wrestler quite a bit but it would be very interesting. I agree with you that submission should end the match also. It would be nice to see the BJJ guys having to work harder at takedowns though. Too much pulling guard in BJJ and submission tournaments. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 00:59:11 10/23/04 Sat i definitely agree with that [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 20:58:24 10/24/04 Sun Paulson's rules seem to resemble Pro Judo rules -- Usually in Judo a clean Throw ends the match but several years ago Espn hosted a Pro Judo event where you racked up point within a certian time frame to declare the winner. May not be what you're used to but I think any set of rules brings out a unique strategy to achieve victory. Continuous rules like that may be fun for the casual (not serious) competitor but unattractive for the spectator. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 23:02:55 10/24/04 Sun i just dislike the idea that a submission doesnt end the match [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules? Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 07:25:53 10/25/04 Mon Noticed I said Serious competitor.......I tend to hear the voices of real MMA fighters and trainers..but I feel there are some guys out there who like grappling but don't compete due to certian problems....don't like paying to grapple once, lack confidence, or just don't train adequately. NOT that I would want to watch a tourney like this but I think it would be good for weekend warrior types. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: pulling guard & submission not ending the match Author: James Speight [Edit] Date Posted: 13:25:01 10/25/04 Mon I agree that pulling guard for the point of pulling guard is a white flag that says “I Can’t throw!!!!” now if you try a takedown and get to guard that is different. I think that is you pull guard, and don’t try a takedown you should be deducted some points. And the submission not ending the match only really makes sense when you have striking point sparring added, like the way the AAU use to do the Freestyle Jujitsu (light point sparring, throws, Positions & Submissions) the idea behind it was that the strikers couldn’t end the match by a knockout, so the grapplers couldn’t end the match by a submission. It was fun; I think some grapplers got like 5 submissions in a 3 minute match. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulling guard & submission not ending the match Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 02:02:02 10/26/04 Tue i dont think theres anything wrong with pulling guard as long as you are active. i dont think there should be a pulling guard penalty, there should be a stalling penalty that applies to the top and the bottom [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulling guard & submission not ending the match Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 07:35:41 10/26/04 Tue Jake is right about being active, I saw a team about 8 yrs ago work a strategy in a BJJ match where they all pulled guard after getting a good grip and ended up winning all their matches and 80% were by submission. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulling guard & submission not ending the match Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 08:37:29 10/26/04 Tue Yeah, there's a big difference in pulling guard and "just lying there" versus pulling guard and attempting to attack. Sometimes, you have to pull guard. In certain situations, you may be hurt or virtually unable to take your opponent down. In those instances, I can see where it would benefit. I would not penalize for it, but I sure as heck wouldn't award any takedown points for it. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: pulled guard, won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. Author: James Speight [Edit] Date Posted: 15:16:43 10/26/04 Tue Now guys if a team pulled guard, then then won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. If you have to pull guard then do it, just know that your will be down on points. And have to make up the difference with a sweep or mount of submission. I have seen people pull guard every time, even when they don’t have to. I give my kids one try on pulling guard from the standing then I discount their matches. And Whitfield most of your pulling guard I have seen was with a shoot attempt for a take down that went wrong, and I don’t consider that a pulling guard. Pulling guard is jumping up on to the other grappler. And I don’t believe in slamming but a lot can be said if you put your self-in that situation. If you can’t slam you shouldn’t pull guard (with out trying a takedown) I saw someone jump up in Guard in an AAU National match, they stopped the match and restarted. You could only pull guard if the other guy was on the way down. Not jumping in mid-air. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulled guard, won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 07:54:16 10/27/04 Wed So if I go for a Flying Arm-bar or triangle attack, that is defended against then I take it Im justified for being in the Guard......but will these counters count as points for my opponent in terms of takedown points..(an opponent who did not initiate) and what about attempting a leg lock attack from underneath....do I get any type of credit for my attacks. Pulling guard to rest,stall,or admire the scenery, I might get with you on that. But you will have a difficult time keeping up with scores by trying to identify who didn't attack with a guard pull and who did push the action. Are you planning to do this in your Tourney. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulled guard, won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 08:11:17 10/27/04 Wed With the standard MACS ruling system, you will get NO credit for a takedown if your opponent tries a flying armbar/triangle and you get them to the mat from there. The only time you will be credited for a takedown is if it is initiated as such. And in that particular case you may be awarded a minor or major advantage depending on how much control you have with that takedown. As for takedown points for performing a flying armbar/triangle...you will get no takedown credit for that. However, you will get credit for a submission attempt. Again, as with the takedown listed above, you will be awarded either a major or minor advantage depending on much control you have over the submission attempt. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulled guard, won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. Author: ses [Edit] Date Posted: 08:39:18 10/27/04 Wed Cool beans. So it would seem to suggest that control should be the key issuse when pulling guard. Similar to Wrestling - you can get points for taking your man down outside the ring as long as you have your feet inside and control over him. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: pulled guard, won their matches “80% were by submission” then the penalty don’t matter. Author: whitfield [Edit] Date Posted: 11:46:32 10/27/04 Wed have i mentioned how much i hate the points game? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]