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Subject: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Stan the Man [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 14:17:38 09/27/04 Mon I saw a similar post on MMA.tv, and was wondering, does it matter if you can or can't? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Shawn F. [Edit] Date Posted: 22:36:02 09/27/04 Mon i don't think that makes any difference at all. i mean, if you are in high school and want to take track. does your track coach have to out run you? does the 65 year old boxing coach have to out box and knock out his boxing trainee? that is stupid! take out the ego, some people can be valuable teachers, but not always good fighters. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 13:24:22 09/28/04 Tue Shawn hit the nail right on the head with that one. A good fighter doesn't necessarily make a good trainer and a good trainer doesn't necessarily make a good fighter. However, what both of these individuals need to be successful is experience. A trainer should know his way around the ring, mat, etc. and be able to assess the progress of his athletes. The trainer should be able to develop a specific program tailored to each of his charges and implement that on the basis of sound techniques and fighting strategy. I've only been coaching for about two years, but I can tell you this...coaching is a lot harder than competing. It is a lot more rewarding as well. You have the responsibility of taking on the safety and well being of the members of your camp. They trust you to make sure of this. So what if you tap your trainer? If they teach you right, you will be able to do it eventually. If it gets to the point when you feel you need to move on to another trainer and challenge yourself, I say go for it. But, but, but, but, but, BUT..... never EVER forget where you got started. Just my 2 cents. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Shawn F [Edit] Date Posted: 13:55:24 09/28/04 Tue AMEN Steve! maa and submission/jiujitsu can be so ego based. any other sport or art acknowledges that the coach/trainer or in this case,sensei, does not need to be able to "tap" his students. if you have trained your students correctly they SHOULD be able to tap you out. people need to understand the difference bewteen competition and training. in training, it doesn't matter how many time you get tapped or takedown down or knock down. it's only training. the real test is either a competition OR a real fight, the latter being a real test, the former only being a simulated version. i'm not sure where this mentality came from in the maa/submission/grappling world but i hope it goes away soon. it's just stupid and ego based. just my 2 cents too [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 07:29:54 09/29/04 Wed More men compete in MMA/ Submission and BJJ.......so the instinct is natural. King of the hill, Pecking order, alpha male type thing = testosterone. Men have it in Large amounts and control it the least effective. It easy for us to always measure ourselves by someelse's abilities and achievements. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Shawn F. [Edit] Date Posted: 09:09:23 09/29/04 Wed good point Ses. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Brandon Weaver [Edit] Date Posted: 12:03:20 09/29/04 Wed I would say when it comes to tapping your trainer it is relative to alot of things. Some guys come into the gym as athletic monsters right off the bat. A good athlete with a good brain (learns to rely on technique and allows it to enchance his attributes rather than rely on said attributes) is going to be hard to deal with in a fairly short time. But if a trainer is tapping to alot of his guys in a fairly shor time in a live grappling exercise then I would wonder why the trainer isnt getting on the mat more and training as well. Grappling and its training is very hands on, and eventually the mark of a great teacher is taking the pupil past him; but at the same time if a guy is getting housed by lots of students I would wonder a bit. plus we always hear stories about the top BB guys who were tapping brown and black belts when they were blue belts. Why does this happen? Because there is a world of difference in being a very competent trainer with very good knowledge and skills and being a worldclass athlete who trains all day every day and learns very fast. I think way too much emphasis was put on who taps who way back mid 90's because anyone with a blue or purple belt thought he should auto tap anyone with a white belt;and since so many of the guys teaching were blues or purples they felt their credibility would be shot by getting tapped in front of students. But as the art and sport grow those guys who were blue and purple learn that tapping isnt really a huge deal at all, and sometimes a given technique must be modified agaisnt certain body types or styles of grappling. And Ses is dead on men are competitive, and everyone wants to feel like they progress and improve and tapping out someone is the measuring stick. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Ses [Edit] Date Posted: 12:39:42 09/29/04 Wed Brandon Weaver, Good to hear from ya,......your point about guys who train all day long and world class athletes makes a lot of sense, As a trainer (meaning that I am putting more emphasis on developing someoneelse's skills) I tend to either Spar with the guys or go through the training phases with them.......but not both on the same day due to the fact that Im a little older and prone to injuries and I don't put in the flight time to prepare for a fight as they do......but Im there the whole time measuring the level of success and failure in the gym........Brandon give Robbie Adams a call at 919 805 9023 he opened up a gym in Fuquay and he's been trying to find you since August....I e-mailed you two day's ago just to have it returned....hit me back with a good addy..........good to hear from you. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: James Speight [Edit] Date Posted: 14:06:47 09/29/04 Wed A student shouldn't only learn from my ability, they should learn from my knowledge. If I get tapped out, by a student, it is when I am at 25% or 50% and the student is at 125%. And most studnets know that. It takes time for new students to relax and work on technique. And my job is not to beat down the new students. It is to train them, so next time someone get up after tapping out your trainer, ask your self “did he do everything he could have” And a lot of time new students want to get to the “advanced” stuff, too quick, that they see others do, and I have to keep them focused on the basics. Some see that as limiting on the trainers part but I have at ask, how many times have you seen those “Advanced” stuff work in a tournament, or MMA event and most of the “Advanced” stuff only work with somewho has a great mastery of the basics [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Brandon Weaver [Edit] Date Posted: 16:27:18 09/29/04 Wed weaverstile@yahoo.com - that would be the good one. I read on here last month about Robbie and I live right down 42 (well a bit down 42) from his place. Sounds like your guys have been doing well, hope they continue to do so. Ha I live probably within 5 miles of Billy too and havent gotten up with him yet. Been outta shape and not motivated for the past year, but the past month I started back and who knows I may even fight again, But mostly I realize how much I miss it now. By the way Mr. Freak should you read this feel free to hit my email with a phone #. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Billy D. [Edit] Date Posted: 23:36:02 09/29/04 Wed First and formost;WOW,BRANDON WEAVER IS ALIVE!!!!!Check your email bro. Anyway,I've had acouple of the guys I train tap me befor.When I role with my guys,I put myself into bad positions to allow them to work and so I can work on escaping.There has been more than one time that I let someone get a little bit to far and had to tap.I'm pretty sure there will plenty be more too. What does that mean?Well for one it shows the improvment of the guy I'm training.Maybe even more importantly,it shows me the weak link in my game.Getting tapped out is one of the most important parts of training.But in all actuallity,it doe'nt mean shit. Another thing is that tapping in training does'nt mean anything.It's just training,getting ready for the real thing.Training is the place to get your tapping out of the way.Tapping someone in a competion is the only time it really counts. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Tapping out your Trainer Author: Steve Loftin [Edit] Date Posted: 14:32:33 09/30/04 Thu "What does that mean?Well for one it shows the improvment of the guy I'm training.Maybe even more importantly,it shows me the weak link in my game.Getting tapped out is one of the most important parts of training.But in all actuallity,it doe'nt mean shit." More people should heed this statement. It holds a volume of truth. As a coach, you can better yourself and your pupil at the same time by putting yourself in bad positions. I like to roll with new guys and only use one certain move at a time. I'll have in my mind that "I'm gonna only go for sweeps" and I help the student by limiting myself and hopefully expanding their arsenal. Steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]