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@Netking, @@Aallll -- ggoolldduussttoorrmm, 21:09:08 08/29/03 Fri

That China silver conference has two many two's two be coincidence! C for yourself: 2nd half of the year, 2nd conference ever, two days of meetings, foreign AND domestic participants, speeches AND discussions, communists AND socialists, paper silver AND metal...CONSPIRACY!!
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
http://www.etherzone.com/2003/pyne082903.shtml
IRAQ
THE NEXT VIETNAM?
By: David T. Pyne
Earlier this month, I attended the Biennial Convention of the National Federation of Republican Assemblies in southern California as a member of the Board of Directors of that laudable organization. I brought to the convention a resolution in support of our troops and calling for the President to bring the troops home and "to withdraw the vast majority of US military forces from the Iraqi theater of operations by Christmas, 2003." I had two primary rationales in pushing this resolution. First, to save the lives of our troops who have been condemned by US policymakers to fight an unnecessary and essentially unwinnable never-ending counterinsurgency war in Iraq. Second, to increase the prospects that President Bush would be re-elected President next fall by taking the rising death toll among our troops and civilians in Iraq off the front page along with the Administration's 'Weaponsgate' scandal stemming from its willful attempts to deceive the American people over the supposed threat posed by its ultimately non-existent WMD arsenal.
Even though I strongly opposed the President's misguided invasion of Iraq, I believe that the likely Democrat presidential nominee in the 2004 Election, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, would be considerably worse for the country. I have staunchly rejected the calls by those on the far left for his impeachment for the increasingly common presidential offense of "lying about war" as compared to his predecessor's more weighty offenses of selling out the country to the Communist Chinese and "lying about sex" and exposing the country's youth to tails of his adulterous affairs, sexual assaults against women, and related debaucheries. As it turns out, several recent American presidents have established somewhat of a tradition of deliberately misleading American citizens in order to goad them into supporting a war, which they would not otherwise have supported. Wilson, FDR, LBJ and George W. Bush lied us into wars while Clinton lied us into multiple lesser conflicts.
Curiously, while every member of the NFRA Resolutions Committee agreed that US troops should never have been sent to invade Iraq in the first place, all but one expressed their viewpoint that it was necessary to "finish the job" and "win the war" before we withdrew our troops, which are reportedly the targets of a dozen terrorist attacks each day and which are dying at the rate of one a day and being wounded at the rate of over six a day based on statistics reported in mid-July. Accordingly, my resolution to support our troops and bring them home was killed in committee and did not make it to the convention floor for a vote by the delegates as I had hoped it would. What the opponents of my resolution on the committee and other necon-minded folks fail to realize is that the counter-terrorist war in Iraq is all but unwinnable. It will not end until the US withdraws its forces out of sight of the Iraqi people and halts its Clintonian, liberal internationalist nation-building efforts which are doomed to ultimate failure as right-minded realists including this author have pointed out from the beginning.
A friend of mine who is presently running for Congress in Indiana announced that he would support keeping our troops in Iraq at current levels for ten years if necessary to avoid another Vietnam. Curiously enough, ten years was exactly how long US involvement in the Vietnam War, a conflict that spanned from 1965-1975. Unfortunately, the parallels between the US occupation of Iraq and the Vietnam war are continuing to increase. Since May 1st when President Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished", 140 additional US soldiers have lost their lives, more than were killed during the war itself, which means that 278 US soldiers have been killed in Iraq since the war began on March 20th. The cost of keeping our troops in Iraq at current force levels could reach as high as a trillion dollars over the next decade according to some estimates. At that rate, if the US military were to remain in Iraq in large numbers for the next ten years, several thousand US soldiers would lose their lives.
The US public is beginning to realize the truth. According to a Newsweek poll taken just last weekend, 69% of Americans are either very or somewhat concerned that the US military is going to continue to be bogged down in Iraq with massive numbers of troops for many years to come. This will almost certainly be the case unless, by some miracle, common sense prevails in the White House and a decision is taken to withdraw our troops from Iraq or more likely a new President is elected from America's Democratic Socialist Party to replace George W. Bush come 2004.
Thus while my congressional candidate friend argued that we must keep 150,000 troops in Iraq for the next ten years to avoid another Vietnam, I say that we must withdraw the vast majority of our troops from Iraq for the same reason—to avoid another Vietnam. Like Vietnam, no matter how long the US remains in Iraq and no matter how many troops it sacrifices and how many hundreds of billions of dollars it expends trying to pacify Iraq, when the troops leave Iraq, it will soon fall under control of Iraqi Shiite terrorist leaders like the US backed Ayatollah Hakim who is an Iranian-backed proxy. Indeed, as I revealed in my recent editorial, Iraq's first recently elected post-war interim President hails from a terrorist party, Al Dawa, which is believed by some in US intelligence to have perpetrated the car bombing against the US Marine Barracks in Beirut in 1983 which cost the lives of 241 Marines.
Like Afghanistan, where the Taliban has recently emerged unscathed to challenge the US-installed government in Kabul, the strong presence of Islamic terrorists in Iraq makes a total victory in Iraq all but impossible. It also ensures that any attempt to create a true democratic system in Iraq will likely serve as the surest swiftest road to Shiite terrorist control of the country. The US might well do better to install a moderate or secularly-minded pro-US Iraqi strongman as President of Iraq with a democratically elected national legislature. That would be the only real hope of averting terrorist Shiite control of the country in the future.
What is needed in Iraq is not only an exit strategy, but more limited, realistic and achievable objectives. The US achieved its primary objective of regime change in Iraq. In so doing it achieved the victory that eluded President Bush Sr. during the first Gulf War who was far too wise than to totally destroy Iraq and balkanize it, thus preventing it from continuing in its historical role as a buffer state to the expansion of Iranian terrorism and regional hegemony as the neocons in the current Administration have done. In the interim, the US should declare victory in Iraq and announce that it will phase out US troops from their current policing and raiding duties which have turned so much of the previously substantial pro-US minority of Iraq firmly against us and on the side of the Shiite terrorists and underground Baathists which now target US troops and collaborators for assassination. If the neocons want to keep US troops in Iraq, then they should restrict them to a few bases located away from the populace and thus out of sight from the Iraqi people. Finally and perhaps most importantly, any plan to withdraw our forces must allow for a speedy reconstitution of the very Iraqi Army that our leaders so unwisely ordered disbanded after the war ended. It was this premature disbanding of the Iraqi Army that resulted in the current wave of terrorist attacks in an Iraq that thanks to US intervention is unable to provide security for itself either against terrorist infiltrators or invasion by a foreign power.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
David T. Pyne, Esq. is a national security expert who serves as President of the Center for the National Security Interest, a national security think-tank based in Arlington, VA. Mr. Pyne is a licensed attorney and former United States Army Officer. He holds an MA in National Security Studies from Georgetown University. Mr. Pyne also serves as Acting President of the Virginia Republican Assembly.  He is  a regular columnist for Ether Zone.
We invite you to visit his website: Center for the National Security Interest
David T. Pyne can be reached at: pyne@national-security.org

[Edit]
Second Annual China Silver Conference Announced - Set for November 17-18, in Weihai, People's Republic of China -- Netking, 19:13:06 08/29/03 Fri

http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/pr13aug03.html

"...This two-day conference will bring together participants from all silver sectors to meet and discuss the latest developments facing the silver industry in China. This year's conference will have a comprehensive program of presentations from international and domestic industry experts. There will be ample opportunities for extramural networking in which to foster business relationships..." [Fair use snippet]

[Edit]
GATA -- gata-spec, 19:05:23 08/29/03 Fri

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

GATA's friend Robert K. Landis has provided an account
of a recent secret meeting of the International Monetary
Fund -- or was that International Monetary Fraud? The
account's technical accuracy may be arguable, but its
metaphorical accuracy is beyond dispute. You can find
it at Reg Howe's Golden Sextant Internet site here:

http://www.goldensextant.com/Resources/LandisIMF2.htm

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
END

[Edit]
A few of the very many, heavy aspects of the gold market to weigh in your decision making, favors tilting some players out of the game. -- Goldustorm, 18:53:51 08/29/03 Fri

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/roffey083103.html
Dr. Clive Roffey
Snippit: "We are watching an historic event, the flight from paper into tangible assets. Stocks are bust, bonds are bust, the leading currency is bust, property is about to go bust. Investors are going to look for capital protection, they are sick of all the hot shot advice to make money out of stocks. Capital protection remains the global objective as I see it. This is not protection from the eroding effect of inflation but from total loss of capital in unstable markets.
History is very close at hand as the gold price in Swiss Francs is has broken upside and that is my indicator of a massive change in global investment attitudes. But also note that gold is outperforming EVERY major currency."

Everyone knows the feeling: You are standing stable, upright, when the rude shock just about pulls your feet from under you- TILT!! It could be an earthquake, a crowded theater, a dizzying pinball game or a Tilt-O Whirl amusement park ride. But only the savvy, the strong and the seasoned survive with the contents of their stomach intact! Your solid terra firma of stability will cover more ground than most imagine.
Roffey's winning strategy advises taking an "obtuse view" of the markets, ignoring traditional investment slogans!

Permission to post copyrighted excerpt granted under the US Fair Use Laws.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 18:46:25 08/29/03 Fri

11:05p ET Thursday, August 28, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

The Reuters story appended here might be useful
reading for the Jim Rogerses, David Willeys, and
other respectables who were last heard tisk-
tisking at the suggestion that central banks in
general and the Federal Reserve and Treasury
Department in particular might have any hostility
to gold.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Surging gold threatens to dim dollar's luster

By Gertrude Chavez
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3353162

NEW YORK, Aug. 28 (Reuters) -- The recent spike in the
price of gold -- a safe haven for risk-averse global
investors -- could jeopardize U.S. stocks and bonds,
undermining a nascent dollar recovery.

Investors' motivation to seek refuge in more tangible
commodities is partly the heightened security worries
ahead of the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks
in the United States and partly the waning prospects
of dollar-denominated asset markets, analysts said.

"Gold is the barometer of geopolitical tensions. If more
people are investing in gold, that's telling you something
is not right about the present geopolitical climate," said
Philip Capone, a foreign exchange trader at Fortis Bank
in New York.

Indeed, there may be some cause for apprehension.
Recent reports in Britain's Sunday Telegraph that
Al-Qaeda is plotting to hijack an aircraft in Britain over
the next two months and Monday's lethal explosions
in Bombay are yet another reminder that the U.S. war
against terrorism is far from over.

After being battered for more than a year, the greenback
has staged a significant rally against most major
currencies over the past few weeks as a plethora of data
reports have signaled the United States will once again
spearhead a global economic recovery.

But with gold on a rampage, analysts say, the dollar
could get hurt, albeit indirectly.

"A gold rally could harm the dollar if it results in a selloff
in other asset markets such as equities and bonds,"
said Capone of Fortis Bank.

Already, U.S. stocks and bonds are looking vulnerable,
analysts say. The stock market has faltered in recent
sessions despite positive economic data because
equities look increasingly fully valued.

The bond market is also in a similar slump, with
improving economic prospects in the United States
appearing to dispel the chances of further interest rate
cuts.

Currency analysts worry that as the price of gold rises,
so too will investors' antipathy toward U.S. assets.
"It could incite further unrest in both the stock and
bond markets, unleashing a wave of selling that could
spoil the chances of a sustainable recovery," said Jes
Black, currency strategist at MG Financial in New York.

From about $254 in April 2001, December gold climbed
to a three-month high of $375.40 an ounce just before
noon on Wednesday in New York. The rally pushed gold
to levels last seen in the aftermath of the U.S.-led war
in Iraq and follows a spate of bombings in the Middle
East, India, and Indonesia.

The active contract is currently trading slightly lower at
around $372 an ounce on Thursday due to profit-taking.

The longer-term backdrop is a steady climb of the
precious metal's price. Gold started to shine again back
in 2001 after a protracted bear market as the dollar's
decline and financial market turmoil gave the yellow metal,
with its steady purchasing power and historic monetary role,
newfound luster.

As the global economy slowed, gold also gained attraction
as one way of insuring against the threat of deflation -- or
an environment of persistently falling prices.

"The low interest rate environment has helped gold,
contrary to some perception," said David Meger, director
of metals trading, at Alaron Trading Corp in Chicago.
"While low interest rates do not allow much for lending
by bullion banks, this has created less selling in the
marketplace," he said.

But after being trapped in a deflationary environment
for many years, Japan -- the world's second biggest
economy -- is now showing signs of recovery along
with the United States, even raising the specter of an
eventual resurgence of inflationary pressures.

Analysts also say the rise in gold is signaling inflationary
expectations, a precursor to a possible fall in the dollar.
High inflation can be closely associated with weakness
in the U.S. currency because it induces monetary
tightening and causes the contraction of dollar supply
in the monetary system.

Black of MG Financial in New York said that with the
shift to gold, markets are already pricing in inflation.
And the more inflation rises, the more investors would
want to hold onto gold as a hedge.

Already, gold traders are talking about the possibility
of the yellow metal climbing higher to over $400, a
level last seen in the mid-1990s.

-END-

[Edit]
Wrapping Up the ER *******CONTEST******** -- auspec, 15:30:10 08/29/03 Fri

Here's a snippet out of 2night's MIDAS commentary, reproduced w permission:


August 29 - Gold $375.30 up $5.40 - Silver $5.10 down 1 cent

DO A LITTLE DANCE, SING A LITTLE SONG!!!!

Get down tonight! Get down tonight!

Party time on this US and Canadian Labor Day Weekend!

In the realm of ideas, everything depends on enthusiasm; in the real world, it all rests on perseverance....Goethe

GO GATA!

Well, we finally got that long awaited breakaway gap, at least so far. Gold blew through key technical resistance between $370 and $372 and never looked back. $373 was the low of the day.

As usual, the cabal forces pounced on gold last night, but came up empty-handed. Gold rallied into the London trading period and on into the Comex start, opening $4 higher and shooting up from there, as much as $7.50 at one point. For the rest of the trading session it was business as usual as the increasingly desperate Gold Cartel implemented its $6 rule (for the most part, the cabal has kept gold to $6+ advances over the years to keep gold excitement to a minimum).

They are looking more pitiful by the day. Anyway, not a time to focus on what they are doing, but on what they aren’t able to do and that is to stop the gold price from rising.

The daily, weekly and monthly gold charts are nothing less than sensational. Gold broke out of its massive bullish wedge formation and is now accelerating. It has made 6 ½ year highs.

Gold daily
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/C3

Gold weekly
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/W

Gold monthly

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/M

Technically, it does not get any better. Fundamentally, the same thing. The best part is most of the investment world remains clueless about what is happening to the gold price and why. Café members and GATA supporters "GET IT" and have "GOT IT" for years. That is why we are cleaning up. Let’s hear it for the home team!

Today’s gold pop suggests my line of thinking about BIG MONEY going after the crooked Gold Cartel could be right on. We shall see, but the price action says YES!

On the gold open interest:

Wednesday’s staggering open interest increase was correct, however there was a change. Much of the October increase was shifted into December. Yesterday, it went up again, climbing 384 contracts to 262,132. The BIG MONEY is handing it to the dastardly cartel bums. The commercials are getting their lunch handed to them by a powerful trading group and a surging physical market. I more and more convinced these buyers KNOW what GATA knows and are going after an increasingly vulnerable group of cowardly, corrupt bankers.

Today was great, but the serious fireworks are still to come when the gold derivatives neutron bomb goes off. At the moment, many of the desperados who are over extended with offside gold derivatives are hoping the cabal can take gold down again as they have done for so many years. Sure, anything can happen in a market, but this time I think they are out of luck, as well as out of position.

GATA stretcher-bearers, please start warming up! One of these days gold is going $400 bid in a nanno-second. That’s when the real fun starts.

END

Comments: This IS the current mood and REALITY in the gold market........lots of excitement. {Tis not really a 6 1/2 year gold high, is it?} This is what has been building and what continues to build to a crescendo. This is where we have been subject to various AGEC {Atheistic, Global, Elitist Collectivists} abuses in the past.........market quashing moves that have broken the spirits of the weak handed gold players. Can they do it once more........... HOW??

Additional contest entries are most welcomed, but not expected at this point. We will be wrapping up in the next couple days. Thanks to those who took the time and effort to write on this timely subject!

[Edit]
Gold in a "Bull" Market ????? -- AuNuggets, 14:18:17 08/29/03 Fri



Neat natural Australian gold nugget seen on eBay.


[Edit]
Musings by Rhody ....something to think about -- Galearis, 08:06:08 08/29/03 Fri

Good morning all.
Every once in a while my brother churns out some interesting insights on a current reality - or speculations on same- and this week has been more inspiring than normal. Thought I'd pass on a mini-essay sent to me this morning:
*******snip
Greetings:
I include the link to Aug 29 Lease rates. Lease rates are low, right? They are low in
the one month terms (both gold and silver). But the lease rate yield curve is steep and getting steeper, just like it is in Treasury Bills. If you look at the one month/one year
lease rate ratio for gold, it's about 5. (One year rates are five times one month rates) That
is a steeper yield curve than treasuries, and I think it portends higher risk in long term leasing.
Silver is even worse. One year lease rates for silver are 17 times the one month rates,
and growing. Just like in the T-bill markets, the Fed can sit on near term rates to goose the
economy, but the long term rates are signaling price inflation. The ESF can sit on one month lease rates to try to flood the pm markets with "cheap" metal, but one year rates are more difficult to control. The metal lease markets are a manipulation. They are a government inspired mechanism to control precious metal markets, using so-called dead asset metal in central bank vaults. The problem is, as governments lower near term rates, they
bleed real metal into the spot market, but the supply is finite. When we see the long term
rates rise, it should act as a precursor to price inflation in the metal at that time in the future.
So if lease rates spike in the one year term, but are stable in the one month, then the LR market is signaling a price explosion in one year. The trouble is, this has not happened
with gold, yet. That means the governments have sufficient vault reserves to continue to
suppress the gold yield curve, but the same may not be true for silver. So silver yield curves
are now triple the steepness of gold's.
I have heard many commentaries that label central bank sales of gold and silver at 20 year
lows (for gold) and 5000 year lows (for silver) as stupid. The most recent fiasco was the
sale of 20 tonnes of gold by the Central Bank of Greece last week. They "lost" 10 million dollars based on the present price of gold, in just one week. Dumb eh? Not dumb.
Central banks hate gold. Central banks exist to print and support the value of paper currencies. They sell gold to support their paper, not yield a return. Think of central bank
gold as ammunition to be expended against the decline of their paper. Golden bullets.
Silver arrows. If the ECB holds 12000 tonnes of gold and if the US Treasury still has its 8000
tonnes, it is not all for sale. Some of this gold must be kept as a threat to sell against any
non G8 central bank or group of central banks that decides to base their currencies on the
gold/silver standard. If G8 cbs hold large stockpiles of gold, they can threaten to dump all
of it on the open market and utterly destroy the value of any gold backed rival currency.
This is why the Bank of England sold half its gold reserves. The WA inspired price increase
was threatening the viability of the British banking system that acts as the foundation for its
paper money system. Central banks are not dumb, they are desperate.

FWIW,
Rhody

[Edit]
Does the Tape Need More Paint? -- auspec, 07:07:19 08/29/03 Fri

Metals markets will be closed Mon for Labor Day & close early today: Gold at 12:10PM & Silver at 12:05PM

I will be out and about but if anyone is interested it will be MOST interesting towatch the last 5 minutes in the gold market especially, today. It's not real paint they use..........merely a whitewash.

It will also be interesting to see exactly how each foreign gold market performed last night.

Crescendo?

[Edit]
Silver hit -- Silver Aussie Six Pack, 04:27:02 08/29/03 Fri

North Korea gone troppo mate, expect big fallout(cloud), silver will go to the moon, make no mistake or my name is not Six Pack mateys.

[Edit]
Up -- HBM, 04:24:39 08/29/03 Fri

Even an attack on POG just before or just after the NY open will probably not stop a very good move up today, IMO.

HBM

[Edit]
POG move in the wee hours -- HBM, 03:59:36 08/29/03 Fri

Just before 3:00 AM Eastern Time, prior to the London open, POG made a move to the upside. Not unusual for a move in either direction at that time.

A little after 5:00 AM Eastern Time gold again moved to the upside. This was a couple of hours after the London open. This was approximately halfway between the London open and the New York open. Seems to be significant to me. Why?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

HBM

[Edit]
It's just too quiet -- $hifty, 23:52:48 08/28/03 Thu

It's just too quiet. Something's up. You can almost feel it!

[Edit]
IMF Message -- Looking Ahead, 20:29:58 08/28/03 Thu

According to the Financial Times, the IMF is going to warn USA about deficit. Advise to keep interest low if not lower. Make pronouncements on currency exchanges, etc., etc.

[Edit]
Avalanche Alert- We have a couple weeks at most til Iran or Saudi Arabia takes the heat and/or the derivative bubble pops? -- Goldustorm, 20:05:55 08/28/03 Thu

http://www.etherzone.com/2003/henr082803.shtml
MORE TROUBLES FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
By: Ed Henry
Almost on cue, the "bond market" is declining. The U.S. Treasury is finding itself unable to sell all of the Treasury securities it would like to sell meaning that President Bush is unable to borrow as much money as he planned. In other words, a major and unique source of revenue for the federal government is beginning to dry up.
Of course, the powers in Washington and their loyal media prefer to present this with a happy face by showing the public that deficits for the current year are not going to be as disastrous as predicted just weeks ago. Instead of the $455 billion deficit, we can now take heart in the fact that the deficit for fiscal 2003 may only be slightly above $400 billion. Isn't that wonderful?
I don't think there's a connection, but the Bush Beans television commercial is simply too analogous to resist—let's roll that wonderful bean footage. The secret family recipe is known only to the faithful dog Duke "and he's not talking." But there's a large field sign that from the air reads "secret family recipe for sale. Contact Duke."
In real life, we are the family being sold out. And we are left to determine whether it's UFOs, the over extension of big mortgage houses like Fannie Mae hedging too much in derivatives, the devaluation of the dollar to foreign currency, or investors losing faith in the American taxpayer's ability to continue paying interest and principal.
In a previous article titled "$2 Billion A Day, where's it going?" I outlined the controversy surrounding the possible decline in the sale of treasuries. You might want to review that article before reading further.
So far, in the month of August, treasury sales have declined from $2.6 billion a day borrowed in July ($81 billion in total) to $1.2 billion per day so far in August (as of Monday, the 25th). That's a drop of more than half, and it is doubtful things are going to change much in the next five days or so.
Let's get specific.
On July 31st, the U.S. Treasury put (tendered) $44.9 billion worth of 2-year notes on the "auction" block at an annual interest rate of 1.5 percent and only $25 billion were sold (accepted). The Federal Reserve picked up another $4.9 billion of these notes for a total of $29.9 billion sold. That's two-thirds the offering.
On August 15th, the Treasury put $44.7 billion worth of 5-year notes on the block at 3.25 percent interest and only $18 billion were sold. The Federal Reserve picked up an additional $3.4 billion worth of these notes. That's less than half the offering.
Also on August 15th, the Treasury put $35.7 billion worth of 10-year notes on the block at 4.25 percent annual interest and only $18 billion were sold. Here, the fed picked up $2.5 billion more.
In its huge mix of "something for everyone" in bonds, bills, notes, and savings bonds available in flavors from two weeks to ten years maturity (the long term 30 year bond no longer exists), the Bureau of Public Debt, run by the little known and never interviewed Mr. Van Zeck, is constantly selling securities to replace those maturing at the rate of more than $5 billion a day while also issuing new securities to add to our ever increasing national debt.
The Federal Reserve's role in picking up securities that do not sell to investors at auction, and holding those which do not then sell through the fed's ten subsidiary banks, also raises many questions about fiat money, devaluation of the dollar, and inflation when the big utilities and others following this action raise their prices accordingly.
I suppose we should be thankful that, as they have in the past, the Federal Reserve isn't picking up all of the securities that don't sell to investors. It's bad enough that the fed currently holds more than 17 percent of the national debt.
In the past, raising interest rates has always worked to tempt and entice investors. Such raises are already happening with ramifications to the mortgage market despite Greenspeak's prime lending rate of merely one percent.
In a radio address on August 9, 2003, Representative Charles W. Stenholm (D-Texas) gave us another of the rare truths about Social Security when he said: "The President's budget office recently projected that the budget deficit will be more than $450 billion this year and $475 billion next year, even with the spending levels and economic assumptions in the President's budget. Staggering as they are, those numbers understate the true magnitude of our problem because they do not include money borrowed from Social Security and other trust funds."
Wherever we end up at the close of fiscal 2003 on September 30th, you can add at least $150 billion to the deficit figure you will be presented, Enron style, from the Bush administration. You will then have the real deficit. A world record.
Finally, if the "bond market" continues to decline we will have destroyed a valuable constitutionally authorized method of raising emergency money. And if it slips beyond the point where we are merely adding more horrendous debt on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren, but gets to the point where we can no longer keep pace with the immediate replacement of maturing debt, then we are in deep doo-doo. It's called the road to bankruptcy.
How long do you think investors can continue to have faith in the taxpayer's ability to pay them back when people aren't working or aren't working on much more than the products and promotion of war?
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
Ed Henry is the founder of TUFF, the Taxpayers Union, and a regular columnist for Ether Zone.
Ed Henry can be reached at ctzcrank@mindspring.co
What of this coincidence? London power outage occurred exactly two weeks from both the Northeast US blackout and September 11 2nd anniversary. God help us.

[Edit]
MSN news headline today: -- Goldus, 20:01:24 08/28/03 Thu

North Korea May Declare Itself A Nuclear Nation
"By golly, those slanty eyed Asians ARE backstabbin, nogood chinks after all. Didn't I tell ya? Wait til they gotta cry to the Chinese gooks to save their little butts."- Screamin Joe Sixpack votes for more Defense Department outlays, black budgets and alphabet agencies

[Edit]
Aussie Silver Sixpack -- auspec, 11:50:47 08/28/03 Thu

"Referred to this site by a friend. What is the hottest speculative Aussie silver stock out there? [either primary or secondary mining stock] Or non-Aussie stocks but listed in Australia? Thanks in advance."

A hearty welcome to you, ASSP! I hope someone here can answer your silver question, but I cannot. There ARE serious silver buggs amongst and lots of em, but I dunno if any follow the Aussie issues.

Excellon, EXN on the Canadian Venture is plenty speculative, but I doubt seriously it trades on the Australian Exchange. These seem to be somewhat separate markets, no?

Regards to U,

auspec

P.S. Ya like the silver, eh?

[Edit]
auspec -- qwerty, 11:06:55 08/28/03 Thu

>IT IS NOT A GOLD FEAR FACTOR!!!

my first impression of guyatt was that he was disinfo because he seemed to be countering GATA's message which seem to have better research ... as one read's guyatt's other writing further, he seems like someone who wants to get out the truth

they really aren't countering one another upon closer examination ... their info seems like part of the bigger picture of gold market ...

i think there are multiple layers to the economic system ... the deeper one goes into the layers, the more hidden it is

the media and economists just banter about the outer layer which just keeps the population dumb down about the real economy

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 11:02:46 08/28/03 Thu

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Peter Brimelow's commentary this morning at CBSMarketWatch,
appended in its entirety, is especially wonderful for indicating
that newsletter editor Richard Band has joined those wondering
out loud whether the Federal Reserve has been trying to suppress
the gold price.

Enjoy the secret knowledge of the gold cult while it remains a
mere cult, and get your gold while you can. Now that even
respectable newsletter editors are sensing that something has
been wrong in the gold market, the golden cat may be getting
out of the bag, and, once out, it may prove to be more tiger
than calico.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Gold timers seem hard to impress

By Peter Brimelow
CBS.MarketWatch.com
Thursday, Aug. 28, 2003
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={93F83650-80B3-4200-
8B70-A2860F1E2658}&siteid

NEW YORK -- What if they gave a gold rally and nobody came?

OK, it's not that extreme.

But gold's gapping upward yesterday -- bullion was up almost $11
at one point, to $374.50 -- does not seem to have excited the
gold timers monitored by the Hulbert Financial Digest.

Last night, the HFD recorded their average exposure at 54.17
percent.

That's high, but far from the recorded peak of 89.6 percent.

And, even more significant, it was unchanged from the previous
night, despite gold's dramatic day.

Even comment from the investment letters was quite modest and
subdued.

Peter Eliades of Stock Market Cycles applied his esoteric cycle
theory:

"Today's rally in Gold generated a nominal 20 week projection
in the metal calling for 375.90-386.60. There is no equivalent
upside projection in the XAU, however and today's high of
375.40 came very close to satisfying the lower window of the
gold projection."

Chris Temple of National Investor Update (new to the HFD
but well ahead of the market over the past 30 months):

"Gold's activities are still ruled largely by short-term traders.
One reason for today's action, in fact, is that some options
contracts for August were expiring. It appears that at least
some of the impetus for today's surge was many of the
same speculators who had expiring contracts, say, at a
gold price of $365 or $370 goosed a thin market higher so
as to exit the older positions at a better level. This is reason
to give us a little worry that today's breakout could turn out to
be a temporary wonder. I'd feel better about the gold
market-and the current pricey level of gold shares-if there
was more evidence that stronger, longer-term hands were a
bigger factor..."

Temple concludes: "If gold is sooner rather than later able
to move above late May's high of $378 per ounce with any
conviction, another $20 could quickly be tacked on. At the
first sign of a loss of momentum, however-and especially
if we start to see an unwinding of the record net long
positions-we'll want to cut back...

"For now, keep to your 15 percent portfolio weighting in
gold shares."

On Tuesday morning, Profitable Investing's Richard Band
had been equally demanding, and wary of manipulation:

"A showdown is approaching for gold and gold shares.

"Looking at my charts, it's apparent the Midas metal faces
stiff resistance at $370 and ounce -- and an even more
formidable barrier at $380....

"The bears (possibly including the Federal Reserve) fervently
hope they can stop the metal before it breaches either
obstacle. Bullion dealers and other large commercial
interests have placed huge bets on the short (sell) side of
the gold futures market. Meanwhile, large speculators
(managed funds, for the most part) are buying futures at
a record pace. One side of this trade is going to prove
spectacularly right, and one side will lose its shirt."

Band said any gold move had to come "within the next
two weeks" and advised baling out if bellwether Newmont
Mining didn't top $40 by Sept. 9.

Newmont closed Wednesday at $39.16.

All this is right up Richard Russell's street. Dow Theory
Letter's septuagenarian superbear exulted last night:

"The public is not even aware the gold is rising in terms
of dollars....And that's how I know that we're still in the
first phase of the gold bull market....

"Today was a big day for gold shares, and happily was
not commented on by CNBC. We'll see if the Wall Street
Journal even mentions gold tomorrow.

"And the 'stealth' bull market in gold continues."

END

[Edit]
The Feds Paint the Tape............Once More -- auspec, 10:46:20 08/28/03 Thu

POG closed at 1:30 EST at $369.90.........smacked for a buck the last few minutes, AGAIN, and brought under the $370 level. It's kinda fun to watch and is most predictable as one can see.

Who, in their right mind, would play this paper game and not plan on delivery? Oops..........sorry Jim Sinclair. CRIMEX sets the price, delivery or no delivery, so the likes of dr Hwang, or the Arabs, or whoever still can buy precious at the depressed prices, no?

If anyone has the COMEX volume the last 5 minutes in comparison to the entire day..........'twoud be most illuminating.

[Edit]
Gold Bashing @ the Close? -- auspec, 10:29:48 08/28/03 Thu

Let's see if gold is hit hard again the last couple minutes. At 1:22 EST POG was $370.90.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 07:54:30 08/28/03 Thu

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Worth reading tonight as you enjoy today's breakout
of gold and silver prices....

Jim Sinclair's "Gold Market Summary" for Wednesday,
at this hour the second item on his Internet site's
home page:

http://www.jsmineset.com/s/Home.asp

And trader Rick Ackerman again talks openly about
the Federal Reserve's likely tampering with the gold
market -- if a few years after it was brought to his
attention (better late than never):

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/ackerman/ackerman082803.html

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]
Black Gold........silvertigo & qwerty -- auspec, 06:41:45 08/28/03 Thu

Be sure to look on Forum 2 for a very detailed analysis of BG.........this has been a work in progress over the ER years. These links will also be placed there. The "Tenets" were worked out by ER folks VERY interested in the BG subject. They are not complete. I have never seen such a detailed discussion anywhere else around the net.

{qwerty} "i remember reading a little about him a couple years ago but didn't reach any conclusion at that time since i was just beginning to look at gold"

"here is a synopsis ..."

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/secret_gold_treaty.htm

"How many tons or ounces of gold does Guyatt think is out there and not officially accounted for ?"





{Silvertigo} "Does anyone think that the black gold is in LBMA or Comex standard bar purity and size? How about quantity? I believe there is a lot out there."

"I have read David Guyatt's materials over the years and it doesn't appear likely that this black gold: 1) Exists in the amounts "of multiples of known reserves" 2) Exists in the Comex bar form and purity 3) Would be used, regardless of likely large quantity, to suppress a bull market in which TPTB consisting of EUROpeans, Asians, Arabs, Russians and others have a vested interest, hidden agenda and major hedge. Are you thinking along these lines?"


auspec--- It is highly likely that this gold is NOT in any standard form in toto. Of course, incremental amounts can and likely have been converted over the years.......a gold lAundering so to speak. Various refiners have had links to cia types as memory serves me. David Guyatt's work on trading programmes demonstrates how some gold is continually brought out of the BG caches into greedy hands or even thirsty markets. This is a new trail to follow since ER's previous analysis of BG. This means that gold DEMAND over the decades since WW2 has been enormously larger than admitted.........for the BG has NOT been accounted.

I do believe that BG has existed as a multiple of what is conventionally recognized as above ground gold supply, the amounts are staggering. The quantities have, however, clearly been diminished over the years, some to market to contain gold, some into insider hands for personal enrichment. The ultimate quid pro quo. BG is not easily or readily made available for a multitude of reasons.......this becomes quite obvious the more one looks into the issues. IT IS NOT A GOLD FEAR FACTOR!!! It clearly has been used to assist the 'good guys' during the Cold War decades. IT IS MOST OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE DUMPED ONTO THE GOLD MARKET TO KILL IT...........any more than DeBeers would do the same with diamonds!!! When Bill Murphy calls these blokes a "cartel" he hits the nail on the head more than realized.

When thinking of gold markets it is best to think, "murky", "dirty", "special ops", etc, etc. That is the norm.......ask the Edmond Saffra surviving heirs.

Parallel markets, parallel elitist kingpins, and a parallel gold world........that's the way of the world. Gold is POWER, gold can be the manifestation of GREED, gold is the perfect vehicle for shady or back door dealings.

Personally, I'm 10 fold more convinced of gold's ultimate destination by observing the battle from $250 POG to the current $370 POG than I am from analyzing these BG issues. Most gold bugs are in total denial re BG, imh&so. We're going higher............their obvious & total desperation tells us so.

[Edit]
Silver mates -- Aussie Silver Sixpack, 03:05:16 08/28/03 Thu

Referred to this site by a friend. What is the hottest speculative Aussie silver stock out there? [either primary or secondary mining stock] Or non-Aussie stocks but listed in Australia? Thanks in advance.

[Edit]
POS -- Netking, 02:55:08 08/28/03 Thu



'97-'98 top and beyond would be a good market target for the short term to exceed.

[Edit]
@auspec, all -- Silvertigo, 22:32:05 08/27/03 Wed

Does anyone think that the black gold is in LBMA or Comex standard bar purity and size? How about quantity? I believe there is a lot out there. Tomorrow I will go to nexus
magazine.com to see if Guyatt's latest material is posted there or else read it at his blacklies place. Thanks.

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 22:06:54 08/27/03 Wed











US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]










LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
@auspec -- Silvertigo, 21:02:47 08/27/03 Wed

I have read David Guyatt's materials over the years and it doesn't appear likely that this black gold: 1) Exists in the amounts "of multiples of known reserves" 2) Exists in the Comex bar form and purity 3) Would be used, regardless of likely large quantity, to suppress a bull market in which TPTB consisting of EUROpeans, Asians, Arabs, Russians and others have a vested interest, hidden agenda and major hedge. Are you thinking along these lines?

[Edit]
auspec -- qwerty, 20:11:46 08/27/03 Wed

i remember reading a little about him a couple years ago but didn't reach any conclusion at that time since i was just beginning to look at gold

here is a synopsis ...

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/secret_gold_treaty.htm

How many tons or ounces of gold does Guyatt think is out there and not officially accounted for ?

i can't name any economists that i really like to read. i pretty much hate them all. they seem to all talk about economics in a very sanitized, abstract and superficial way. they talk in the official language of the so called establishment and ruling class.

you ever hear stephen roach talk about all the dirt under the rug. he stays within the boundaries set up by the ruling world cabal. the issues for him are policies when it should be about criminals running the financial system.
unfortunately, he is what most people rather hear about because he doesn't upset the status quo. if the american people had to confront that criminals are running the system, they would not be upset because criminals are running the system but upset because they would have to get off their asses and do something. that scares americans more than anything. better to just look the other way or tune it out.


I think I will read his books at some point ...

[Edit]
GATA re Gold Gone -- auspec, 19:28:40 08/27/03 Wed

[GATA] Central banks don't have the gold anymore, Sprott's Embry tells Investor
Canada
Date: 8/27/2003 7:50:19 PM Central Standard Time
From: GATAComm@aol.com
To: gata@yahoogroups.com


8:42p ET Wednesday, August 27, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

John Embry, president of Sprott Asset Management
in Toronto, today gave an interview to Investor
Canada and again publicized the essence of GATA's
findings about the gold market. The interview is
appended.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

INVESTOR CANADA INTERVIEWS JOHN EMBRY,
PRESIDENT OF SPROTT ASSET MANAGEMENT

http://www.investorcanada.com/interview.php?
contentID=1525&display=transcript

Investor Canada: Welcome to InvestorCanada.com. I'm
Donna Guzik. John Embry has been watching the gold
market for many years. He of course made a name for
himself garnering stellar returns for the Royal Precious
Metals Fund. He's now president and portfolio manager
of Sprott Asset Management. He manages the Sprott
Gold and Previous Metal Fund there.

John, last time we spoke it was January. You said the
price of gold would be moving higher as a result not of
Iraq or any of those issues, but as a result of a weaker
U.S. dollar and the United States getting more aggressive
about monetary printing to stave off any deflation. Do
you still feel that that is the case?

Embry: Well, absolutely. I think basically that, sure,
we're having some economic recovery here, but they've
been throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it.

I think the deflationary pressure still exists. I mean, the
combination of China exports, the Internet, there's far
too much debt in the system that there's a lot of
deflationary pressure.

The United States cannot take deflation, so they will
err on the side of ease. They will print a lot of money
and they are so doing. If you look at the M3 growth
recently, it's staggering. So, yes, I think this is a real
underpinning for gold.

Investor Canada: Well, let's talk about some of the
other factors that are affecting the price of gold. You
had said previously that mine supply will contract over
the next few years. Where is the supply of gold going to
come from? Where is the demand going to come from?

Embry: Well, the demand is going to, in my opinion, is
going to come from people trying to sort of diversify
away from paper money as it becomes more apparent
that all governments are printing money in a
beggar-thy-neighbor type policy, to keep their exports
competitive. I think that more people around the world
will feel the need to have a little more gold in their portfolio.
So I'm not the least bit concerned about the demand
side. The supply side is another issue. I mean, the fact
is I don't think gold mine output will improve.

I think it will fall the next three to four years as a result
of the dearth of exploration in the post-BreX period.

When gold prices were low for an extended time, the
producing mines high-graded considerably and didn't
do a lot of the sustaining capital development. And it's
just a natural exhaustion of mines.

With all those combinations, in the next two or three
years gold production is going to fall irrespective of what
prices do.

Then if prices do what I think they're going to do, which
is go up materially, there will be lots of exploration, lots
of gold mines found, but they won't be put in production
until the latter part of this decade.

So in the near term, I think the supply/demand equation
for gold is excellent.

Investor Canada: So are you looking for the juniors to do
the exploration work and the larger companies to buy them
up?

Embry: Yes, I think that sort of will be the new. It's ongoing,
really. The seniors have pulled back in their exploration and
they're more content to let the juniors raise money, find the
stuff and then cherry-pick the ones they like.

Investor Canada: How important is the role of central banks
that hold gold and may sell gold? Recently one of the
European central banks that was not a member of the
Washington Gold Agreement of 1999 sold about 20 tonnes.
Does that have much of an impact on the supply?

Embry: Well, it's had a huge impact and the central banks,
in conjunction with their associates, the bullion banks, have
been controlling the gold price for years. The problem is that
they're running out of ammunition. They allegedly own
31,000 tonnes. In reality they've probably lent half of that,
which has already been sent into the market and sold. So
I think they're going to become less and less a factor.

And more importantly, I think that the Asian central banks
-- the Chinese, the Taiwanese, the Japanese, et al. -- are
getting more and more dollars. They're carrying these
enormous current account surpluses. They're just getting
stuffed with dollars.

I think they're the natural buyer for any central bank gold
that's going to come for sale out of the European central
banks. So I don't see this as a big factor going forward at all.

Investor Canada: Well, this Washington Gold Agreement,
as I understand, is expected to be reviewed.

Embry: It comes to an end a year from now, in September
2004. And you know, right now they're selling 400 only
tons a year. Given the deficit in the market between mine
supply and what I think the demand is going to look like,
they could easily sell twice that and not come anywhere
close to filling the gap. So I don't see this thing as a factor
at all.

Investor Canada: Let's talk a little bit about some of the
gold companies you're looking at. Who do you like right
now?

Embry: I've got some smaller ones that I've gotten really
interested in, and I've had quite good success in to date.
One that I'm very keen on is one called Queenstake, which
bought the Jarod Canyon Mine from AngloGold and
Meridian. And it's a 300,000-ounce producer. It's in
production and they've got all the environmental things
bonded, so that's all covered.

Investor Canada: Where is that based?

Embry: It's in Nevada. The real key to the story is that
when they bought it, it had only two years of obvious
reserves available for production. They believe that they
can convert resources that are already identified for at
least another four years, and they see tremendous
exploration potential beyond that.

If this is the case, this is an extremely cheap stock and
it's trading around 63 cents. There's a lot of shares out,
about 300 million. But this is very inexpensive, given the
production they're going to have. I see it as a terrific
levered play on higher gold prices.

Investor Canada: Do you have a target price on this stock?

Embry: Oh yes, I'd say at least a buck and a quarter in the
short run, over the next six months.

Investor Canada: And which other companies do you like
right now?

Embry: I continue to like Southwestern Resources, which
has this enormous mineralised zone in China, which I think
could contain well in excess of 10 million ounces of
economic grade. They're going to get more and more drilling
results from there, but it's slow going because it's a hard core
to drill. But I think that as people get more confidence in this
thing, the valuation is going to move up significantly.

Investor Canada: Are there any companies do you think
investors should really be staying away from right now?

Embry: Well, there's one that's been stinking it up pretty
good lately, and this is this Apollo Gold, which I unfortunately
have a small position in, which I inherited incidentally. They
were mining two of the old Pegasus Mines in Montana and
Nevada. I think they're poor-quality mines and now they're
sort of running out of money. So that's one that I'm not
terribly enthused about at this point.

Investor Canada: If investors aren't currently in gold stocks,
why should they be?

Embry: I firmly believe that everyone who has any significant
assets should have a minimum of 10 percent in gold or gold
shares or a combination thereof. I like gold bullion as well.
I think it's actually a safer way to play it, because there's
always things that could go wrong with gold companies.

Investor Canada: Where do investors get bullion?

Embry: I'm glad you asked because there's a new vehicle
called Central Gold Trust. You can buy it on the TSX
(CGT.UN) and it's a pure gold play. All it owns is gold. It's
very vanilla. There's no bells and whistles. It's straight
gold
and it's a very simple way to buy gold.

Investor Canada: Well, I'm glad I asked.

Embry: I'm glad you did too because I think it's a heck of a
vehicle that people should really consider.

END

[Edit]
MIDAS -- auspec, 16:50:20 08/27/03 Wed

Reprinted w permission:

"Back to the REALLY BIG PLAYERS taking on The Gold Cartel. Knowing what GATA knows is the key. Unlike what the mainstream gold world tells its clients, this big money must know half the central bank gold is GONE! That 10,000+ tonnes of leased/swapped gold central bank gold not reported by the gold establishment is an enormous difference. (The gold establishment reports less than 5,000 tonnes gold having left the central bank vaults.) Yes, the central banks still have around 16,000 tonnes, but a majority of what IS left is not going anywhere. The gold which can come out is disappearing at an astonishing rate, FROM A PERCENTAGE POINT OF VIEW. It is so bad the Greeks were called on to sell gold coins."

"It wouldn’t take that much money (in a relative sense) to buy up the available central bank gold, ALL OF IT! Then you take a look at what the US is doing in Iraq and at our own growing budget deficits and you say a play like this makes total sense. Of course, the bullion dealers will pooh-pooh talk like this all the way up because they are short and trapped."

"Let’s have a little fun. The US says it won’t sell its 8,000 tonnes. The IMF supposedly cannot do anything with its 3,000 tonnes. The French WONT sell or lend their 3,000 tonnes. That leaves two to three thousand tonnes left to hit the market. Then keep in mind there are many other countries who will not sell what gold they have left. However, for conversation sake, at $360 gold various official sector buyers (or significant investment groups) could buy the remaining 3,000 tonnes for around $34 billion. If various governments want to shift more of their dollar reserves into gold, it could happen fairly quickly. I’m not saying this is what is happening, but it is food for thought. A lot less than $34 billion would squeeze the market."

"It is also important to keep in mind there is a 1400+ tonne yearly supply/demand deficit. The central banks need to feed that much into the market to keep the price from rising. They are stuck and remind me of heroin acts. They need their fix. If they stop addiction, they will go into withdrawal. The gold price will go bananas. It is only a matter of time before they go down. Perhaps that time is now!"

"The Gold Cartel will fight and fight, but soon gold will shoot up like Mt. Vesuvias."

"Silver was not only ready to rumble, it IS rumbling. I find it interesting New York silver is now quoted at a three cent premium to London. As long as I can remember, it was the reverse with silver trading two cents under London."

Silver
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/SV/93

"Platinum made new 23-year highs, closing at $714, up $19.
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PL/A3

"It won’t be that long before we are using the platinum prices for gold prices."

END

Comment: Yes, there is likely a group of "REALLY BIG PLAYERS" going after gold..........the physical market is like a sponge. China boys according to our dr v.

This battle will not be for the feint of heart. Of course, the 8000 tons of gold allocated to the US in the above snippet is likely imaginary.

I am in the middle of reading David Guyatt's Hammer File Updated piece, as it related to 'trading programmes'. Essentially, laundering and distributing various amounts of "Black Gold" and other valuables. All the well known names come up in this piece.........those who participate in a parallel financial world. For whatever reason, this gold was not available to keep POG at $250 or less. I believe it to be distributed into strong hands instead of being squandered in a price suppression scheme.

IF one believes there are large amounts of off the books gold out and about...........one would be wise to adapt a strategy that hits a grand slam homer with POG no higher than $425 or $450. It may or may not go higher and if it goes considerably higher the world in which we live will be greatly altered.........chaos. Until the global collectivists choose a position sufficiently high to act as an impenetrable firewall........."we" will continue to win battle after battle, taking gold incrementally higher and higher. $390 is far from impenetrable........they need to regroup and get their act together much closer to $500, imho. An orderly retreat is called for at this point. Sometimes one should just cut the losses, take the lumps and start afresh.

Now.........about that bases clearing homer..........

[Edit]
@Goldus, Goldustorm (same entity?) and Murray -- Galearis, 16:29:48 08/27/03 Wed

I have copied the Kitco chart for the POS and may even print it out and frame it! Although I have been wrong before, and Bill Murphy has been early on harping about the warnings for traders to "not be short the silver market now", AND the first early projection time for silver to blow is right now (right you may well be, Murray, your call looks GREAT now), I now think the tightness in physical supply is really starting to be felt. For over a month "they" have been trying to take silver down past the psycologically significant $5 mark and have failed miserably. It is probably time to crow for glee as the shorts start to cover today. As I hope, an historical day!

Talking to Rhody the other day (and playing catch-up in all this), the feeling is that China may be starting to rethink its dumping policy - or making noises that they will be curbing somewhat. That is all it would take.

Who would be dumb enough to want to lease metal with this pending? Hence the L.R.s plummet. Supply and demand in a way.....

Regards,

G

[Edit]
@ dotti & All.....re-hashing an old subject. -- beesting, 16:11:48 08/27/03 Wed

Ron Paul on "Legal Tender Laws".
(Snip)

@ dotti...A Mis-Conception! -- beesting, 09:38:01 07/29/03 Tue

Hi dotti, here is the message I am refering to:
(Snip)@ Sojo & dotti -- beesting, 20:21:30 07/27/03 Sun

The dollar is an I.O.U. note that people(me included) have been slowly conditioned to accept for
goods and services.

Dotti: Actually, beesting, I think that it is law that one has to accept the FRNs in payment of debt.
That’s what my parents told me. (Unsnip)
************************************************************
From Ron Pauls Recent Speech To Congress About Legal Tender Laws:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr072503.htm
(Snip)
Another prescient Justice was Stephen Field, the only Justice to dissent in every legal tender case to come before the
Court. Justice Field accurately described the dangers to our constitutional republic posed by legal tender laws: "The
arguments in favor of the constitutionality of legal tender paper currency tend directly to break down the barriers
which separate a government of limited powers from a government resting in the unrestrained will of Congress. Those
limitations must be preserved, or our government will inevitably drift from the system established by our Fathers into a
vast, centralized, and consolidated government." A government with unrestrained powers is properly characterized as
tyrannical.

Repeal of legal tender laws will help restore constitutional government and protect the people's right to a medium of
exchange chosen by the market, thereby protecting their current purchasing power as well as their pensions, savings,
and other promises of future payment. Because honest money serves the needs of ordinary people, instead of fiat
irredeemable paper-ticket electronic money that improperly transfers the wealth of society to a small specially
privileged financial elite along with other special interests, I urge my colleagues to cosponsor the Honest Money Act.(Unsnip)

[Edit]
@Galearis -- Goldus, 15:23:53 08/27/03 Wed

Re: The end of leasing. If I recall, you have posted well on this topic before.

[Edit]
@Galearis -- Goldustorm, 15:15:52 08/27/03 Wed

Good to hear from you again. I see the lease rates on gold are lower the past couple days (haven't checked silver). Pertaining to "commercials afraid of the lease markets"- seems to be happening now. Regards

[Edit]
*********ER CONTEST************ -- auspec, 15:05:17 08/27/03 Wed

Just a few days left in our ER contest now. The Elliot Wavers will all turn bullish on gold somewhere between $390 and $415 or so. They have had a bearish stance for well over a decade and there are LOTS of these guys out there. The gold market will be on fire if EW'ers join the party.

What's gonna stop this from transpiring? Anything possible? Greek gold sells accomplished next to nada for the gold managers. Anything left up their sleeve? Enthusiasm is building greatly...............We're "close" once again..........

[Edit]
Galearis -- Ag_Eagle, 11:03:53 08/27/03 Wed

Howdy man. . . . I see you've been busy you rascal!
Yes it has that feel about things that the forces of control in this tiny market are out of Aces to play & pressure is building under the POS. It could be the next major "market event" will be enough to tip the scale and launch Ag on stage 1 of the ascent. Over $5 is good, but my heart will begin to beat a little faster once we clear $7 . . . I don't think that is too far away G. best regards Netking

[Edit]
@ Ag Eagle and fellow Ranchers -- Galearis, 07:15:58 08/27/03 Wed

I haven't posted in guite some time, and offer no apologies whatsoever for this (how does one do this while skinny- dipping in and bushwacking through the depths of northern Ontario), but I would say that as I type this, with POS at $5.10, that we may well be at the magic, historic day that silver has been working towards.

Enjoy.

And...

best regards

G.

P.S. Watch the lease rates! It truly is a backward world: when L.Rs are low it tells us that the commercials are afraid to use this source. We are also watching the death of leasing here.....

[Edit]
what a spike in gold -- qwerty, 06:02:09 08/27/03 Wed

looking like gold is about to go to the moon

it looks like one of those cabal slam spikes except that this is going up

[Edit]
short covering massive -- volavka, 05:50:21 08/27/03 Wed

up 5.00 now

[Edit]
MTMD -- volavka, 04:48:50 08/27/03 Wed

MTMD (Multiply the melt down).
Schultz is correct in that derivatives did not exist in 1929.

Now tie in the relation of u.s. dollar to chinas currency +
1/3 all interest baring derivative instruments are held in grand cayman (tax structure). What u have is a double gold rush building out of interest baring financial derivatives default and into gold .

The metals will be the beneficuary of the actions of a defective system run by the prince of paper.

[Edit]
Just Compensation For 'Work' Done -- Harvey, 23:02:21 08/26/03 Tue

In a strange incongruous way, the wabbit was attempting to illustrate the futility of our current monetary world and the true value of what one's work/life amounts to, if relegated to the current system of compensation.

The ULTIMATE answer, as many here have addressed, has to be another higher form of value, placed upon one's efforts in life, and a means of realizing those efforts..{possibly emanating from within an individual's deepest understanding of what life is all about}.
While affording each and every one we come into contact with, an equally substantive value for their time, efforts, and energy.

An ellusive search for some common value system, which does not prostitute one's own efforts, or pimp another's energy, and can be realized by all, as an equitable means of transfering payment or storage of same, is an external necessity, {aside from the self and its needs}, that is NOT being made available by our present "userous and onerous" system of monetary compensations.

Does there exist, the possiblity of finding such a utopic means of living, where all compensations have equanimity to the amount of work done? Where all work accomplished, has value?

Just reflecting, in the semi-ambulatory world of the cabbage patch - no real answers sought.

Ambl'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
mr v re the good {?} dr -- auspec, 15:59:31 08/26/03 Tue

sources?
links?
info?
US or European counterpart?
Byong-Moo Hwang?
misc info

tia

[Edit]
gold looking strong -- qwerty, 07:43:46 08/26/03 Tue

gold seems very strong

gold up $2 in blink of an eye
dollar up also

a reversing dollar will produce a lot of kinetic energy in gold when the dollar reverses to push gold above $400

that 335 dolar value index looks like it is being taken out

[Edit]
George W explains the trade deficit... -- number six, 06:40:58 08/26/03 Tue



I'm maybe going a little crazy on the graphics here, but it's just the thrill of the new.

[Edit]
buy silver in late August, apparently -- number six, 02:55:46 08/26/03 Tue



Courtesy of the wonderfully-named Dmitri Speck, at financialsense.com

[Edit]
@ all -- Questioner, 22:04:53 08/25/03 Mon

Thanks for keeping the interesting posts going during the summer. Was able to lurk in from time to time and keep tuned to events going on at Eagle Ranch. You thoughts are really appreciated! :)

Back from the fire fight and had a busy summer. I worked out of Kernville, Ca and was able to catch a lot of fires before they burned up many home in California. Condition of the Sequoia N.F. is really drought stressed. Sad to see the damage done to much of the forest. Hadn't been to the Sequoia N.F. in ten years and climate change is taking it toll. Such is life and change takes its toll.

[Edit]
Research regarding precious metal catalysis -- Questioner, 21:56:34 08/25/03 Mon

Interesting legislation tucked away in the energy bill of 2003. Could be big news for the gold industry. If you are interested go to H.R. 238 and check out section 168 that is titled, "Research regarding precious metal catalysis." Go to the source link: http://fire.pppl.gov/energy_bill_hr238_010803.pdf for the full written piece or check out some of the guts of it from which it is taken:


"2005 may be used to carry out research in the use of pre- 1
cious metals (excluding platinum, palladium, and rho- 2
dium) in catalysis."

Looks like the idea is to use gold in the process of catalytic converters because it performs better at lower temperatures.

You can also go to "The Energy Policy Act of 2003 and go to section 965 Catalysis Research Program.

Interesting stuff.

Looks like out with platinum and pallidium and in with gold. Golden catalytic converters in our future????

[Edit]
Wigginess Of "Work" Revisited -- Harvey, 19:46:56 08/25/03 Mon

"Work" - Different understandings; perhaps as many as there are people to interpret it. From cleaning baby poop to shoveling manure - all within the context of "work", no doubt.

How about this definition: "A trade of human energy, for an equable amount of something of value."? Be it a bartered item, an equal trade of another's work, or anything which has redeemable value.

Centering around the fact that the u.s. has become a debt driven and (supposedly) service based nation - with only a 10% mfg. base, and 86% of what is consumed, is produced out of the country. Is the majority of the u.s. economy based on "servicing" some abitrary debt, as allocated through a fictitious system of userous and onerous means?

These means include infinite layered counter party derivative protection, through the most convoluted gambling schemes [note: rigged scheming markets] ever in the history of man.

Every ascpect of our work related society; from corporate balance sheets, insurances, pensions, savings, to the money itself, is cross current exposed to some, or possibly, the same derivative leverage - all based on virtually zero assets, against unfathomable nanosphere creations of nothing but more cross current schemes.

Most companies in the u.s. are 'leveraged' into the heavens and debt burdened. [example: FoMoCo. 70 bil. in debt against 7 bil. book value] With any true accounting sense, is this beyond redeemability and value?

Wouldn't want to leave out Uncle Fester {aka. u.s.a. corp} - no doubt, leveraged more so than any individual company. Current account deficits are approaching 650 billion; total debt ceiling is constantly being allowed/pushed/demanded higher, into the nano zone, with zero hopes of ever balancing, and now the bonds which are stair step crashing into their true value of nothingness, are making the final stages of dollar capitulation, a "given".

So, work as 'some' know it and was illustrated in the linked article regarding the book, "The Economic Horror" - http://www.jobsletter.org.nz/jbl11310.htm - must come crashing to an end when the MASS of this false economy goes into a debt implosion which vaporizes the majority of the 90% non producing service sector jobs.

It has been that way for the history of all paper debt societies - Romans to Assignats to current FedHead policies, which commenced around the turn of the Century.

As Voltaire said: "All paper fiat, will eventually reach its intrinsic value........zero." Seems we are now approaching that TRUE value zone. And value, as an expression of our work, shall be irrevocably changed in terms of what a person will do for a living.......no?

The ringer - nobody disappears, or goes poof into the ether zone of human in-existance. We all stay and play an evolving series of "who does what, for whom, and how will they/we accept payment for their/our labors, upon learning that the previous game was rigged to steal 'energy' while giving not much of value, in return?"

The end of work, (AS WAS KNOWN) and the beginning of.........?

Flintersan, anyone.......the next stage of human evolution and worthwhile "work"?

Wank'n, er work'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
mr v -- auspec, 16:56:05 08/25/03 Mon

I certainly hope you and the good dr are correct. Jan 1 not too far away............

[Edit]
Where's the unabomber??????????? -- volavka, 05:31:50 08/25/03 Mon

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003391098,00.html

[Edit]
Auspec -- volavka, 04:51:32 08/25/03 Mon

The net has its' share of wanna be like Mikes.
Alot of what one refers to as Bull shitters.

Dr. Hwang is a real person.

His origin is somewhat of a secret to me because he likes his protection.
Living 60+ years thru chinas past one does not open mouth too wide.

I can tell you that he wants gold .

He looks long term and still expects 650.00 before years end.

Key fact still dollar and chinese currency.

I expect this to be the biggest news event in the financial mkts once it becomes clear as to the position.

[Edit]
Silver -- Netking, 02:57:16 08/25/03 Mon

What Impact Will Digital Photography Have on Silver?

As an aside, Hu Jintao [ruler of 1.3b] is due to travel all over soon, one of the first nations on his visiting list [due to be announed for October] since assuming the presidency it seems will include our humble abode. The visiting, beyond mere ceremony has at stake issues of regional influence; both economic and security issues will be on the table as China seeks to balance its interests against those of the US, the other major power in the Asia-Pacific region. The USA seemingly balanced the giving [or not as the case may be] of recent free trade agreements against "security co-operation" whilst China comes . . . it would seem freely giving [Greeks bearing gifts?]. Anyway, the PRC is now seeking to position the US, in particular, as screwing the global trading game against other comers......a military build up going on for sure incl at home in the US and the Asian region as well stated......but don't forget this "battle" will be to large extent economic, trade, forex....in fact the battle may be won or lost without a military shot be fired.

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 23:45:39 08/24/03 Sun











US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]










LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 21:58:43 08/24/03 Sun

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,765.32 + Dow 9,348.87 = 11,114.19 divide by 2 = 5,557.095 Ponzi

up 45.245 from last week.

Is that the "FAT LADY" I hear warming up?

Thanks for the link RossL !

Go GATA!

Go GOLD!

$hifty



[Edit]
mr v...........re dr. hwang -- auspec, 18:09:14 08/24/03 Sun

These poor blokes at the GC headquarters just can't seem to get it right. Now they defend $350 instead of a more solid $410 or so where they could succeed for a MUCH longer time frame. All the years spent trying to drive gold sub $250 to $200 SHOULD have been fought at $350. Just like the feds........a year late and several K tonns short. Pretty out of touch and pretty arogant for sure.

Dr Hwang is Chinese oligarchy, no? Chinese oligarchy differs much from western oligarchies {US/Anglo/European}...........as far as the east is from the west. Much is shared.........assuming much will never be shared. Dr Hwang accumulating, eh? How confrontational or determined to see higher pog do you think "he" will be?
illuminations?

[Edit]
Victory Act -- hAug, 16:42:20 08/24/03 Sun

And coming now is the Victory Act, presumably named in reference to the government's rolling victory of tyranny over freedom.

hAug

" Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of international copyright law. "
" http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html "
blah blah blah


shoot HERE

Congress may consider a bill that not only expands the government's wiretapping and investigative powers but also would link low-level drug dealing to terrorism and ban a traditional form of Middle Eastern banking.

The draft legislation -- titled the Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations Act of 2003, or Victory Act -- includes significant portions of the so-called Patriot Act II, which faced broad opposition from conservatives and liberals alike and embarrassed the Justice Department when it was leaked to the press in February.

The Victory Act also seems to be an attempt to merge the war on terrorism and the war on drugs into a single campaign. It includes a raft of provisions increasing the government's ability to investigate, wiretap, prosecute and incarcerate money launderers, fugitives, "narco-terrorists" and nonviolent drug dealers. The bill also outlaws hawalas, the informal and documentless money transferring systems widely used in the Middle East, India and parts of Asia.

A June 27 draft of the bill, authored by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and co-sponsored by four fellow Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, has been circulating in Washington, D.C.

....

[Edit]
The Patriot Act? -- beesting, 16:26:07 08/24/03 Sun

I recently got into a conversation with a well intentioned Gvt. employee. Somehow a reference to the Patriot act entered into our conversation when the Gvt. employee asked me exactly what is the Patriot act about. I was at a loss for words, except to mumble something about Americans losing their freedoms.
Now after reading Dr. Ron Pauls latest I don't feel so bad, apparently noone in Congress has read and completely understood all 500 pages of the Patriot act.
Here is a sample of what Ron Paul says:
(Snip)
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2003/tst082503.htm

It is clear, however, that the Patriot Act expands the government’s ability to monitor us. The Act
eases federal rules for search warrants in some cases; allows expanded wiretaps and internet
monitoring; allows secret “sneak and peek” searches; and even permits federal agents to examine
library and bookstore records. On these grounds alone it should be soundly rejected.


Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

beesting again: Considering in my state alone there are 270,000 on "State" payrolls,,,,If Patriot act passes how many "personel" would have access to everyones ""PERSONAL"" information???
This Is Still Called "A Free Country"???

[Edit]
Work -- Sojourner, 13:52:54 08/24/03 Sun


IMHO, there is no shame in any honest work.
As an able bodied person, accepting welfare is beyond my realm of thinking.

beesting, I agree with you about baby poop. And although they are paid, what about cleaning up
all the excretions coming from different orifices of an ill person that a nurse is required to do?

Sojo

[Edit]
Canberra defies US troop call -- Netking, 13:48:47 08/24/03 Sun

Australia is resisting overtures from Washington to consider a fresh contribution to coalition forces in Iraq as US officials publicly acknowledge a "deteriorating security environment".

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,7057609%255E601,00.html

[Edit]
Manure -- beesting, 12:07:16 08/24/03 Sun

I don't really see a whole lot of difference between "manure" and a small human babies excrete-ment......And I've done my fair share of cleaning up both, without monetary compensation.

.....beesting either a "FOOL" or a humanitarian?

[Edit]
@HBM -- dotti, 08:37:05 08/24/03 Sun

Now that I think about it, I've come across a few of those in my day.

Thanks for adding your perspective.

dotti

[Edit]
dotti @ 07:00:28 08/24/03 Sun -- Hill Billy Mitchell, 08:32:15 08/24/03 Sun

Hi dotti,

You said and you asked:

“…I always think about the people who work jobs that "nobody wants to do". The people who shovel manure. Do they do it out of pride? Or for survival? Or to work their way up?”

Some do it not so much out of pride but out of goodness. I am certain of it!

HBM

[Edit]
bob chapman -- qwerty, 07:40:59 08/24/03 Sun

====
As we explained almost four years ago that in order to cover the coming financial debacle that our elitists would continue one war after another. We called it perpetual war for perpetual peace. Unfortunately we were correct. For a thousand years the conspiracy has financed both sides of every major war and most smaller conflicts. Wars are started because the elitists need external enemies to blame for financial failure and at the same time they exert internal control over their own people. That is why today’s America is becoming a fascist state. George W. Bush wants to be its new Hitler. This has nothing to do with right-wing or left-wing politics. It has to do with a group of apolitical people who want and have power and wealth.

America is no longer a republic or a democracy. George W. Bush was elected in a rigged election, so he never was legally elected by a majority of the people. You are getting the government that the elitists think, you deserve. The people around Mr. Bush, who like to call themselves his cabal, are not neo-conservatives, they are not right-wing, they are no longer Trotskyites or Marxists, they are members of the New World Order, a conspiracy designed to enslave America and then the remainder of the world. What they are doing is treason. This is nothing new. We last saw the same exercise in the 1930s and 40s in Germany. Just look and read and you will see Hitler did the same things George W. Bush is doing today. This is all no mystery; it is just unfortunate that people can’t take time to read history.

George W. Bush’s National Security Strategy for the US confers upon him and his cabal the divine right to devastate any nation they dislike or that has vast oil fields or other natural resources to plunder. Anyone who disagrees is unpatriotic, a terrorist, or an enemy of the state. This is how terrorism is used to justify Fatherland Security and an infrastructure that suppresses dissent. Our president’s obsession with terror is the new contrived pretext for solidifying world domination, and as well to internally control America. The 170,000 brown-shirted zombies provide the internal security Mr. Bush needs to assure the continuity of his political power indefinitely. Rather than through force of arms the elitists use the social structure, and through the legal criminality of the social system and its institutions of government execute tacit violence upon the populace. You Americans have no idea what these depraved cretins in Washington have in store for you. It is too gruesome at this time in this publication. Selective terror and blacklists are enough to neutralize all but perhaps 15% of the population. That is accompanied by arrests on the word of anonymous informants, loss of due process, military tribunals, illegal incarceration and deportation. This is the New America. We know currently that thousands of people are being held for as long as two years without charges being laid.

The Homeland Security Council, which Mr. Bush chairs, sets policy for a secret political warfare program. This is a black ops program designed for many reasons, particularly to suppress political opposition and that includes assassinations usually by contract employees. Or perhaps he’ll use personal from the Terrorist Threat Intelligence group with 1,000 analysts from dozens of agencies, which coordinates the other directorates in terror operations. They will also manage the CIA’s domestic action squads, interrogation and informant programs as well as coordinate all in-coming intelligence for state, local and private sector officials. Mind you it is illegal for the CIA to perform any domestic operations. The CIA’s Counter-Terror Center will fill the most important positions within the Office of Intelligence. They will plan daily operations in conjunction with fellow Counter-Terror Center offices posted within 93 Justice Department task forces, which will plant the latest electronic surveillance gadgets in every corner of society, such as houses, workplaces, public facilities and computers to find terrorists and launch preemptive attacks to neutralize them before they activate. There are already hundreds of businesses and institutions on the CIA Watch List. They are aided in this endeavor by all agencies of government and that includes the SEC. These spy agencies are also already slanting estimates to fit a political agenda. They are shutting up and out anyone not involved in their operations. Probable cause is a lost empty phrase. These are the same gangs that illegally invaded Iraq, set up a puppet government and stole their oil to enrich themselves.

The new Fatherland Security and the Homeland Social structure are illegal. The same precepts were used in the Phoenix Program in Vietnam with some of the same players. These people are going to wage political warfare on the American people. Of course, there will be the blackmail, false arrests, etc. to ruin the reputations of politically incorrect families. Fear will lead to paranoia until no one knows for sure who is a spy for the thought police. During the coming depression the midnight arrests will begin as well as disappearances into administrative detention centers. Those who escape and hide will be hunted down and liquidated. The definition of sedition and treason will grow to include disseminating anything negative about the government. You will be guilty of undermining the will of the state by challenging its authority. Our government is going to wage political warfare against us via implicit and explicit terror. We didn’t dream this up; we got it straight out of Washington. This is what the elitists have planned for you.

===

when gold does go up, there will be a lot of gold bugs in euphoria

i don't care how much gold goes up, it will never compensate for the desruction of america and the constitution

the new world order doesn't scare me

the scariest aspect of everything is that most american people are politically dumb as a stump and many even if they did know would be indifferent

on a larger scale, it will not happen overnight


the agencies need to train a lot of people and gain enough experience

they need to complete the databases to locate people

they need to create the so called legal framework and precedents

they will need to shut down the last remnants of independent media ... internet and shortwave etc

there will be arrests of more prominent people

the acts of domestic terrorism ( carried out by nwo/homeland security) against america will increase

another sign would be bob chapman fleeing the country or disappearing

honest and patriotic people within the agency who awaken will get purged and targeted

the people who are aware and have resources will likely have the opportunity to find a new life out of harms way

some of the masses will awaken in compartmentalized ways

people who are hit hard economically may awaken a little and become more politically vocal. getting politically active after a long time dormant will be very hazardous to the sheep. they won't even know what hit them.

the nwo will have discretion as to when it starts in a major way. it will be like us wondering when the gold suppression will end ... it could be 2 years or 20 years

also the nwo has beauracracies run by a lot of stupid people who won't be able to follow the plan so even the nwo will run into major problems in implementation

and maybe the masses will be so lethargic that energizing their beauracracies will be an enormous task

the american sheep will deserve the harsh agenda of the new world order in all it's gusto. if it were they who were just affected then justice would be served. it would be the punitve damage for political stupidity and indifference.

i'll just try to get out of the way and find some place more quiet and peaceful to live. let the sheep clean up their own mess.

i think once you gold bugs get rich, it may be a good idea to have a back up home someplace else just to be on the safe side

[Edit]
Re: AuWag - Meanderings On The Wigginess Of Work -- Harvey, 16:17:10 08/23/03 Sat -- dotti, 07:00:28 08/24/03 Sun

Good Morning, All. My reception at the gallery is today! Yippee!!! It's not such a big deal because it is a membership gallery and each artist gets a turn at being featured--usually two at the time--but I am a solo since the other artist wimped out--no time to produce work.

Regarding the article referenced on the Forrester book, I see lots of philosophical fodder in that article. I started to broach the topic myself, but wisely decided to choose another time. Interesting idea on what we do with the people if we can't employ them. I always think about the people who work jobs that "nobody wants to do". The people who shovel manure. Do they do it out of pride? Or for survival? Or to work their way up--is there a management level in such jobs?

We have increasingly created a society where work is not necessary for survival. Also. Work is not necessary for self esteem--in fact, the contrary is often true: work in certain jobs is more embarrassing than unemployment/welfare.

And. I said I wouldn't get into it today. Oh, well. That's it for now.

I hope to see some much better efforts from Flintersan and others regarding the necessity for workers in the modern world.

Take care.

dotti

[Edit]
GW . . . . bushed? -- Ag_Eagle, 03:07:08 08/24/03 Sun

Bush losing support for re-election, fast.

"...A growing number of Americans don't want to see US President George W Bush re-elected, and fear US troops are being drawn into a long, costly occupation of Iraq, according to a Newsweek poll..."
[SMH snip copied under intl. fair use]

[Edit]
"Wigginess".................to the Topster -- AuWag, 21:05:04 08/23/03 Sat

He's not just HEAVY...........he's my brother.

Getting a little profound there, wabbit!

Waggin along.........

[Edit]
mini -- awdragon, 18:09:05 08/23/03 Sat

Your welcome

May the link grow as a mustard seed
for all to think about.

no idea on quote, please post author because I grow old and lazy

Many as I agree with your wisdom

William Wallace - FREEDOM !!!

awdragon

[Edit]
Worms or Viruses -- Sojourner, 17:11:03 08/23/03 Sat


Everything all fixed now. I didn't have worms or viruses.

Thanx,
Sojo

[Edit]
AuWag - Meanderings On The Wigginess Of Work -- Harvey, 16:17:10 08/23/03 Sat

The wabbit has been 'under' a spell of woe, lately.

"Under" the umbrella of apathy, which surrounds a people lost in too many worms, viruses, and other synthesized brainular conceptions of how they should respond to abject terror, unleashed without any form of due process according to the sensibilities of worthwhile human endeavor - {aka. The idiocy of warmongering, and lack of public outcry.}

"Under" the propoganda of every puppet, progenitor, and pimp for the collective usurpers.

Matter of Point. After reading the link, provided ATR -
http://www.jobsletter.org.nz/jbl11310.htm

I'm compelled to address the author, with a 'Flintersonian' perspective.

Without zontal interpretations to draw conclusion from, I might have given the attached some credence, and demanded a solution, to THEIR problem.....Hau!
The irony of it all, now does not allude me!!

Thanks to the Horizontal Methodology, which is the spark towards wisdom's combustion - I'm burning THEIR edicts in the flame of my understanding. The more they attempt to elicit from my compassions, the more strength I embue from my separation.

Very analytical person, with some reasonable corollaries, whom feels work within the "old" context is necessary; however misguided into thinking that WE need anyone's care and guidance towards supporting the complex, for our daily survival.

Our friend Flinter is right, in his analysis of what is necessary for individual salvation.......it is just that - INDIVIDUAL awareness, sans any state, official, elected, governmental, corporate, or other vast vert system of beliefs, to find the requisite means of monetary or more important, spiritual profit.

Walking the Earth, pondering the truth of What-Is, planting hazelnuts and piss'n off of one's own porch..........ALL that is needed to find a wealth, rather than a 'work'. Ne?

End of WORK........I say YEAH VERILY!! The beginning of true freedom, towards WEALTH and VALUE of LIFE!!

"Under" the tree of woe; but sitting on top 'o MY world.

Patch'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
Questions -- Sojourner, 14:39:16 08/23/03 Sat


I cannot send out emails. I get the message that my User address is invalid. I have received emails today.

Do I have the wormy thing? I have received NO emails with attachments. Has someone given me the worm by stealing my address? If anyone gets an email from me----well, it is not me. Because if it is the worm - then it stole all my addresses in my addressbook.

[Edit]
Test -- Sojourner, 14:30:44 08/23/03 Sat


Test only.

[Edit]
Harv -- mini, 14:24:52 08/23/03 Sat

Good to see you out and nibblin' about, been wondering what the 'cwazzy wabbit' was up to.

You've already let us all know what's up {Doc?} when they come for U. Can wabbits weally foam at the mouth?

Regards to a fine matrix escapee and his accomplice {the mrs.}. Stay free.

the anti-Trail Guide

[Edit]
Mini - test question -- Harvey, 12:56:15 08/23/03 Sat

Answer: GW? Naw, too much synoptic comprehension. Perhaps Thomas Jefferson?

The quote echos the thoughts from the kite flier -

"Those whom are willing to sacrifice freedom for security, neither deserve, nor shall recieve either." Ben Franklin

By the way - howdy from the cabbage patch!

Nibbl'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
awdragon -- mini, 12:43:53 08/23/03 Sat

What are you going to do when they come for you?

Excellent, thanks for the link. We have surely been "tread upon" and it looks like tank tracks straight ahead. One can always break out various forms of passive resistance, no? It's been a while since I chewed up a good spitwad. Am wondering about conjugal visitations........smile.

In the END........there's always the heavenly "exit strategy".

May I post your/these words on Forum 8 even though this is not a contest entry?

P.S. Who penned these famous words:

"The difference between major success and utter failure or mediocrity is often the willingness to step forward, take the chance, pay the price and, in effect, live life to its fullest extent. A life of safety, regret, and fear...........ends up being no life at all."

[Edit]
link for below - sorry old age - -- awdragon, 08:14:55 08/23/03 Sat

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/awdragon/1what.html

[Edit]
Weekend thinker - just my views -- awdragon, 08:11:56 08/23/03 Sat

What are you going to do when they come for you?

NOT FOR THE CONTEST

Executive Orders or a call to war against the people?

awdragon

[Edit]
qwerty -- All Seeing Eye, 06:39:37 08/23/03 Sat


The cabal never loses control of the gold market. They play a few games with the sheeple to maintain the chaos. But they know exactly what they are doing and why. Gold will break out when they have the breakout in their longterm plans. There are no historical economic rules or guidelines to what they do. It can be fun to try to surmise their methods, but we do not and will not know until it is happening or has happened.

ASE

[Edit]
bill murphy -- qwerty, 23:22:40 08/22/03 Fri

after watching gold for the last couple years, i sense something has friday. i think a number of economic forces ( of the cabals own making ) is bringing the gold suppression to a conclusion

this is not to say the cabal is losing since they're plans are to cause global economic failure in order to bring more centralized economic decision making on a global scale

they have to make an effort to manipulate in order to draw attention away from their plan for economic destruction. this gives people the idea that they are working like hell to stem the collapse. i think its more like ... they are working like hell to create more extreme pressure on the economies so when things do snap, it causes more economic damage


bill murphy comments


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Why was a piddly $2 up day in gold so significant?

* Every single time over the last five years, and after a
good price runup/large spec build-up, the Gold Cartel
reversed gold and succeeded in turning gold down and
flushing out the specs. Today was the exception, made
more important because of the early surge in the dollar
and U.S. stock market. If there ever was a time for the
cabal forces to execute their gold market raid, it was today.
They FAILED miserably.

* Gold has now closed 10 days in a row over its pivotal
$323 Dollar Index Value of Gold price. As you know from
years of Midas commentary, the gold market is about the
physical market and the Gold Cartel. The work of GATA's
Mike Bolser shows $323 was the cabal's defense point for
gold in all currencies. The fact gold is moving away from
that level suggests the cabal is losing control of their
rigging operations. This gradual loss of control is the
reason gold is moving up, even as the dollar soars.
Most gold analysts seem confused. As oft-repeated
here, those who do not deal with the gold rigging issue
do not understand the gold market. In the end, most of
their analyses will prove inadequate.

* The work of Houston's Dan Norcini reveals that $335
DIVG is Custer's Last Stand for The Gold Cartel. Once
gold takes out that level, it will indicate they have
completely lost control of their manipulation. Yesterday
gold closed right below the $335 level. The Gold Cartel
needed to bury gold today to maintain confidence in the
manipulation and control of the gold price. They failed.

* The DIVG is based on the London PM Gold Fix. As
gold was trashed early in the day, the fix came in at
$358.75, or more than $4 lower than the previous day.
Technically, the DIVG fell to $331.95 due to the low fix.
However, if one uses the Comex close, it would have
about taken out $335 based on the higher dollar. If gold
takes out its downtrend line on Monday and the dollar
doesn't collapse, the DIVG gold price will blow through
its last resistance at $335. It will be nail in the coffin for
the bad guys. Gold should rocket!

* Gold's holding so steady the past week in the face of
enormous dollar strength is additional proof there IS a
"paradigm shift" in investor attitude toward gold. As the
U.S. position in Iraq deteriorates and U.S. financial markets
begin their inevitable swoon, this "paradigm shift" will
become more pronounced.

* Hannibal Lecter (Goldman Sachs) sold the close,
knocking gold down over $1 in the last minute. Same
pathetic maneuver they pull over and over. It tells us the
Gold Cartel has not capitulated yet. However, they must
be petrified of the abnormal strength in the gold price.
It is extraordinary and they know it. Any veteran trader
can see it.

* We still have that breakaway gap due with gold coming
in $3 higher and moving up from there, quickly taking out
$370. I thought we might see $370 by today. The cabal's
attack on Thursday delayed the event. My guess is gold
will take it out next week. Soon we should see the
long-awaited commercial signal failure. Comex open
interest ro