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@Netking, @@Aallll -- ggoolldduussttoorrmm, 21:09:08 08/29/03 Fri

That China silver conference has two many two's two be coincidence! C for yourself: 2nd half of the year, 2nd conference ever, two days of meetings, foreign AND domestic participants, speeches AND discussions, communists AND socialists, paper silver AND metal...CONSPIRACY!!
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
http://www.etherzone.com/2003/pyne082903.shtml
IRAQ
THE NEXT VIETNAM?
By: David T. Pyne
Earlier this month, I attended the Biennial Convention of the National Federation of Republican Assemblies in southern California as a member of the Board of Directors of that laudable organization. I brought to the convention a resolution in support of our troops and calling for the President to bring the troops home and "to withdraw the vast majority of US military forces from the Iraqi theater of operations by Christmas, 2003." I had two primary rationales in pushing this resolution. First, to save the lives of our troops who have been condemned by US policymakers to fight an unnecessary and essentially unwinnable never-ending counterinsurgency war in Iraq. Second, to increase the prospects that President Bush would be re-elected President next fall by taking the rising death toll among our troops and civilians in Iraq off the front page along with the Administration's 'Weaponsgate' scandal stemming from its willful attempts to deceive the American people over the supposed threat posed by its ultimately non-existent WMD arsenal.
Even though I strongly opposed the President's misguided invasion of Iraq, I believe that the likely Democrat presidential nominee in the 2004 Election, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, would be considerably worse for the country. I have staunchly rejected the calls by those on the far left for his impeachment for the increasingly common presidential offense of "lying about war" as compared to his predecessor's more weighty offenses of selling out the country to the Communist Chinese and "lying about sex" and exposing the country's youth to tails of his adulterous affairs, sexual assaults against women, and related debaucheries. As it turns out, several recent American presidents have established somewhat of a tradition of deliberately misleading American citizens in order to goad them into supporting a war, which they would not otherwise have supported. Wilson, FDR, LBJ and George W. Bush lied us into wars while Clinton lied us into multiple lesser conflicts.
Curiously, while every member of the NFRA Resolutions Committee agreed that US troops should never have been sent to invade Iraq in the first place, all but one expressed their viewpoint that it was necessary to "finish the job" and "win the war" before we withdrew our troops, which are reportedly the targets of a dozen terrorist attacks each day and which are dying at the rate of one a day and being wounded at the rate of over six a day based on statistics reported in mid-July. Accordingly, my resolution to support our troops and bring them home was killed in committee and did not make it to the convention floor for a vote by the delegates as I had hoped it would. What the opponents of my resolution on the committee and other necon-minded folks fail to realize is that the counter-terrorist war in Iraq is all but unwinnable. It will not end until the US withdraws its forces out of sight of the Iraqi people and halts its Clintonian, liberal internationalist nation-building efforts which are doomed to ultimate failure as right-minded realists including this author have pointed out from the beginning.
A friend of mine who is presently running for Congress in Indiana announced that he would support keeping our troops in Iraq at current levels for ten years if necessary to avoid another Vietnam. Curiously enough, ten years was exactly how long US involvement in the Vietnam War, a conflict that spanned from 1965-1975. Unfortunately, the parallels between the US occupation of Iraq and the Vietnam war are continuing to increase. Since May 1st when President Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished", 140 additional US soldiers have lost their lives, more than were killed during the war itself, which means that 278 US soldiers have been killed in Iraq since the war began on March 20th. The cost of keeping our troops in Iraq at current force levels could reach as high as a trillion dollars over the next decade according to some estimates. At that rate, if the US military were to remain in Iraq in large numbers for the next ten years, several thousand US soldiers would lose their lives.
The US public is beginning to realize the truth. According to a Newsweek poll taken just last weekend, 69% of Americans are either very or somewhat concerned that the US military is going to continue to be bogged down in Iraq with massive numbers of troops for many years to come. This will almost certainly be the case unless, by some miracle, common sense prevails in the White House and a decision is taken to withdraw our troops from Iraq or more likely a new President is elected from America's Democratic Socialist Party to replace George W. Bush come 2004.
Thus while my congressional candidate friend argued that we must keep 150,000 troops in Iraq for the next ten years to avoid another Vietnam, I say that we must withdraw the vast majority of our troops from Iraq for the same reason—to avoid another Vietnam. Like Vietnam, no matter how long the US remains in Iraq and no matter how many troops it sacrifices and how many hundreds of billions of dollars it expends trying to pacify Iraq, when the troops leave Iraq, it will soon fall under control of Iraqi Shiite terrorist leaders like the US backed Ayatollah Hakim who is an Iranian-backed proxy. Indeed, as I revealed in my recent editorial, Iraq's first recently elected post-war interim President hails from a terrorist party, Al Dawa, which is believed by some in US intelligence to have perpetrated the car bombing against the US Marine Barracks in Beirut in 1983 which cost the lives of 241 Marines.
Like Afghanistan, where the Taliban has recently emerged unscathed to challenge the US-installed government in Kabul, the strong presence of Islamic terrorists in Iraq makes a total victory in Iraq all but impossible. It also ensures that any attempt to create a true democratic system in Iraq will likely serve as the surest swiftest road to Shiite terrorist control of the country. The US might well do better to install a moderate or secularly-minded pro-US Iraqi strongman as President of Iraq with a democratically elected national legislature. That would be the only real hope of averting terrorist Shiite control of the country in the future.
What is needed in Iraq is not only an exit strategy, but more limited, realistic and achievable objectives. The US achieved its primary objective of regime change in Iraq. In so doing it achieved the victory that eluded President Bush Sr. during the first Gulf War who was far too wise than to totally destroy Iraq and balkanize it, thus preventing it from continuing in its historical role as a buffer state to the expansion of Iranian terrorism and regional hegemony as the neocons in the current Administration have done. In the interim, the US should declare victory in Iraq and announce that it will phase out US troops from their current policing and raiding duties which have turned so much of the previously substantial pro-US minority of Iraq firmly against us and on the side of the Shiite terrorists and underground Baathists which now target US troops and collaborators for assassination. If the neocons want to keep US troops in Iraq, then they should restrict them to a few bases located away from the populace and thus out of sight from the Iraqi people. Finally and perhaps most importantly, any plan to withdraw our forces must allow for a speedy reconstitution of the very Iraqi Army that our leaders so unwisely ordered disbanded after the war ended. It was this premature disbanding of the Iraqi Army that resulted in the current wave of terrorist attacks in an Iraq that thanks to US intervention is unable to provide security for itself either against terrorist infiltrators or invasion by a foreign power.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
David T. Pyne, Esq. is a national security expert who serves as President of the Center for the National Security Interest, a national security think-tank based in Arlington, VA. Mr. Pyne is a licensed attorney and former United States Army Officer. He holds an MA in National Security Studies from Georgetown University. Mr. Pyne also serves as Acting President of the Virginia Republican Assembly.  He is  a regular columnist for Ether Zone.
We invite you to visit his website: Center for the National Security Interest
David T. Pyne can be reached at: pyne@national-security.org

[Edit]
Second Annual China Silver Conference Announced - Set for November 17-18, in Weihai, People's Republic of China -- Netking, 19:13:06 08/29/03 Fri

http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/pr13aug03.html

"...This two-day conference will bring together participants from all silver sectors to meet and discuss the latest developments facing the silver industry in China. This year's conference will have a comprehensive program of presentations from international and domestic industry experts. There will be ample opportunities for extramural networking in which to foster business relationships..." [Fair use snippet]

[Edit]
GATA -- gata-spec, 19:05:23 08/29/03 Fri

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

GATA's friend Robert K. Landis has provided an account
of a recent secret meeting of the International Monetary
Fund -- or was that International Monetary Fraud? The
account's technical accuracy may be arguable, but its
metaphorical accuracy is beyond dispute. You can find
it at Reg Howe's Golden Sextant Internet site here:

http://www.goldensextant.com/Resources/LandisIMF2.htm

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
END

[Edit]
A few of the very many, heavy aspects of the gold market to weigh in your decision making, favors tilting some players out of the game. -- Goldustorm, 18:53:51 08/29/03 Fri

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/roffey083103.html
Dr. Clive Roffey
Snippit: "We are watching an historic event, the flight from paper into tangible assets. Stocks are bust, bonds are bust, the leading currency is bust, property is about to go bust. Investors are going to look for capital protection, they are sick of all the hot shot advice to make money out of stocks. Capital protection remains the global objective as I see it. This is not protection from the eroding effect of inflation but from total loss of capital in unstable markets.
History is very close at hand as the gold price in Swiss Francs is has broken upside and that is my indicator of a massive change in global investment attitudes. But also note that gold is outperforming EVERY major currency."

Everyone knows the feeling: You are standing stable, upright, when the rude shock just about pulls your feet from under you- TILT!! It could be an earthquake, a crowded theater, a dizzying pinball game or a Tilt-O Whirl amusement park ride. But only the savvy, the strong and the seasoned survive with the contents of their stomach intact! Your solid terra firma of stability will cover more ground than most imagine.
Roffey's winning strategy advises taking an "obtuse view" of the markets, ignoring traditional investment slogans!

Permission to post copyrighted excerpt granted under the US Fair Use Laws.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 18:46:25 08/29/03 Fri

11:05p ET Thursday, August 28, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

The Reuters story appended here might be useful
reading for the Jim Rogerses, David Willeys, and
other respectables who were last heard tisk-
tisking at the suggestion that central banks in
general and the Federal Reserve and Treasury
Department in particular might have any hostility
to gold.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Surging gold threatens to dim dollar's luster

By Gertrude Chavez
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3353162

NEW YORK, Aug. 28 (Reuters) -- The recent spike in the
price of gold -- a safe haven for risk-averse global
investors -- could jeopardize U.S. stocks and bonds,
undermining a nascent dollar recovery.

Investors' motivation to seek refuge in more tangible
commodities is partly the heightened security worries
ahead of the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks
in the United States and partly the waning prospects
of dollar-denominated asset markets, analysts said.

"Gold is the barometer of geopolitical tensions. If more
people are investing in gold, that's telling you something
is not right about the present geopolitical climate," said
Philip Capone, a foreign exchange trader at Fortis Bank
in New York.

Indeed, there may be some cause for apprehension.
Recent reports in Britain's Sunday Telegraph that
Al-Qaeda is plotting to hijack an aircraft in Britain over
the next two months and Monday's lethal explosions
in Bombay are yet another reminder that the U.S. war
against terrorism is far from over.

After being battered for more than a year, the greenback
has staged a significant rally against most major
currencies over the past few weeks as a plethora of data
reports have signaled the United States will once again
spearhead a global economic recovery.

But with gold on a rampage, analysts say, the dollar
could get hurt, albeit indirectly.

"A gold rally could harm the dollar if it results in a selloff
in other asset markets such as equities and bonds,"
said Capone of Fortis Bank.

Already, U.S. stocks and bonds are looking vulnerable,
analysts say. The stock market has faltered in recent
sessions despite positive economic data because
equities look increasingly fully valued.

The bond market is also in a similar slump, with
improving economic prospects in the United States
appearing to dispel the chances of further interest rate
cuts.

Currency analysts worry that as the price of gold rises,
so too will investors' antipathy toward U.S. assets.
"It could incite further unrest in both the stock and
bond markets, unleashing a wave of selling that could
spoil the chances of a sustainable recovery," said Jes
Black, currency strategist at MG Financial in New York.

From about $254 in April 2001, December gold climbed
to a three-month high of $375.40 an ounce just before
noon on Wednesday in New York. The rally pushed gold
to levels last seen in the aftermath of the U.S.-led war
in Iraq and follows a spate of bombings in the Middle
East, India, and Indonesia.

The active contract is currently trading slightly lower at
around $372 an ounce on Thursday due to profit-taking.

The longer-term backdrop is a steady climb of the
precious metal's price. Gold started to shine again back
in 2001 after a protracted bear market as the dollar's
decline and financial market turmoil gave the yellow metal,
with its steady purchasing power and historic monetary role,
newfound luster.

As the global economy slowed, gold also gained attraction
as one way of insuring against the threat of deflation -- or
an environment of persistently falling prices.

"The low interest rate environment has helped gold,
contrary to some perception," said David Meger, director
of metals trading, at Alaron Trading Corp in Chicago.
"While low interest rates do not allow much for lending
by bullion banks, this has created less selling in the
marketplace," he said.

But after being trapped in a deflationary environment
for many years, Japan -- the world's second biggest
economy -- is now showing signs of recovery along
with the United States, even raising the specter of an
eventual resurgence of inflationary pressures.

Analysts also say the rise in gold is signaling inflationary
expectations, a precursor to a possible fall in the dollar.
High inflation can be closely associated with weakness
in the U.S. currency because it induces monetary
tightening and causes the contraction of dollar supply
in the monetary system.

Black of MG Financial in New York said that with the
shift to gold, markets are already pricing in inflation.
And the more inflation rises, the more investors would
want to hold onto gold as a hedge.

Already, gold traders are talking about the possibility
of the yellow metal climbing higher to over $400, a
level last seen in the mid-1990s.

-END-

[Edit]
Wrapping Up the ER *******CONTEST******** -- auspec, 15:30:10 08/29/03 Fri

Here's a snippet out of 2night's MIDAS commentary, reproduced w permission:


August 29 - Gold $375.30 up $5.40 - Silver $5.10 down 1 cent

DO A LITTLE DANCE, SING A LITTLE SONG!!!!

Get down tonight! Get down tonight!

Party time on this US and Canadian Labor Day Weekend!

In the realm of ideas, everything depends on enthusiasm; in the real world, it all rests on perseverance....Goethe

GO GATA!

Well, we finally got that long awaited breakaway gap, at least so far. Gold blew through key technical resistance between $370 and $372 and never looked back. $373 was the low of the day.

As usual, the cabal forces pounced on gold last night, but came up empty-handed. Gold rallied into the London trading period and on into the Comex start, opening $4 higher and shooting up from there, as much as $7.50 at one point. For the rest of the trading session it was business as usual as the increasingly desperate Gold Cartel implemented its $6 rule (for the most part, the cabal has kept gold to $6+ advances over the years to keep gold excitement to a minimum).

They are looking more pitiful by the day. Anyway, not a time to focus on what they are doing, but on what they aren’t able to do and that is to stop the gold price from rising.

The daily, weekly and monthly gold charts are nothing less than sensational. Gold broke out of its massive bullish wedge formation and is now accelerating. It has made 6 ½ year highs.

Gold daily
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/C3

Gold weekly
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/W

Gold monthly

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/M

Technically, it does not get any better. Fundamentally, the same thing. The best part is most of the investment world remains clueless about what is happening to the gold price and why. Café members and GATA supporters "GET IT" and have "GOT IT" for years. That is why we are cleaning up. Let’s hear it for the home team!

Today’s gold pop suggests my line of thinking about BIG MONEY going after the crooked Gold Cartel could be right on. We shall see, but the price action says YES!

On the gold open interest:

Wednesday’s staggering open interest increase was correct, however there was a change. Much of the October increase was shifted into December. Yesterday, it went up again, climbing 384 contracts to 262,132. The BIG MONEY is handing it to the dastardly cartel bums. The commercials are getting their lunch handed to them by a powerful trading group and a surging physical market. I more and more convinced these buyers KNOW what GATA knows and are going after an increasingly vulnerable group of cowardly, corrupt bankers.

Today was great, but the serious fireworks are still to come when the gold derivatives neutron bomb goes off. At the moment, many of the desperados who are over extended with offside gold derivatives are hoping the cabal can take gold down again as they have done for so many years. Sure, anything can happen in a market, but this time I think they are out of luck, as well as out of position.

GATA stretcher-bearers, please start warming up! One of these days gold is going $400 bid in a nanno-second. That’s when the real fun starts.

END

Comments: This IS the current mood and REALITY in the gold market........lots of excitement. {Tis not really a 6 1/2 year gold high, is it?} This is what has been building and what continues to build to a crescendo. This is where we have been subject to various AGEC {Atheistic, Global, Elitist Collectivists} abuses in the past.........market quashing moves that have broken the spirits of the weak handed gold players. Can they do it once more........... HOW??

Additional contest entries are most welcomed, but not expected at this point. We will be wrapping up in the next couple days. Thanks to those who took the time and effort to write on this timely subject!

[Edit]
Gold in a "Bull" Market ????? -- AuNuggets, 14:18:17 08/29/03 Fri



Neat natural Australian gold nugget seen on eBay.


[Edit]
Musings by Rhody ....something to think about -- Galearis, 08:06:08 08/29/03 Fri

Good morning all.
Every once in a while my brother churns out some interesting insights on a current reality - or speculations on same- and this week has been more inspiring than normal. Thought I'd pass on a mini-essay sent to me this morning:
*******snip
Greetings:
I include the link to Aug 29 Lease rates. Lease rates are low, right? They are low in
the one month terms (both gold and silver). But the lease rate yield curve is steep and getting steeper, just like it is in Treasury Bills. If you look at the one month/one year
lease rate ratio for gold, it's about 5. (One year rates are five times one month rates) That
is a steeper yield curve than treasuries, and I think it portends higher risk in long term leasing.
Silver is even worse. One year lease rates for silver are 17 times the one month rates,
and growing. Just like in the T-bill markets, the Fed can sit on near term rates to goose the
economy, but the long term rates are signaling price inflation. The ESF can sit on one month lease rates to try to flood the pm markets with "cheap" metal, but one year rates are more difficult to control. The metal lease markets are a manipulation. They are a government inspired mechanism to control precious metal markets, using so-called dead asset metal in central bank vaults. The problem is, as governments lower near term rates, they
bleed real metal into the spot market, but the supply is finite. When we see the long term
rates rise, it should act as a precursor to price inflation in the metal at that time in the future.
So if lease rates spike in the one year term, but are stable in the one month, then the LR market is signaling a price explosion in one year. The trouble is, this has not happened
with gold, yet. That means the governments have sufficient vault reserves to continue to
suppress the gold yield curve, but the same may not be true for silver. So silver yield curves
are now triple the steepness of gold's.
I have heard many commentaries that label central bank sales of gold and silver at 20 year
lows (for gold) and 5000 year lows (for silver) as stupid. The most recent fiasco was the
sale of 20 tonnes of gold by the Central Bank of Greece last week. They "lost" 10 million dollars based on the present price of gold, in just one week. Dumb eh? Not dumb.
Central banks hate gold. Central banks exist to print and support the value of paper currencies. They sell gold to support their paper, not yield a return. Think of central bank
gold as ammunition to be expended against the decline of their paper. Golden bullets.
Silver arrows. If the ECB holds 12000 tonnes of gold and if the US Treasury still has its 8000
tonnes, it is not all for sale. Some of this gold must be kept as a threat to sell against any
non G8 central bank or group of central banks that decides to base their currencies on the
gold/silver standard. If G8 cbs hold large stockpiles of gold, they can threaten to dump all
of it on the open market and utterly destroy the value of any gold backed rival currency.
This is why the Bank of England sold half its gold reserves. The WA inspired price increase
was threatening the viability of the British banking system that acts as the foundation for its
paper money system. Central banks are not dumb, they are desperate.

FWIW,
Rhody

[Edit]
Does the Tape Need More Paint? -- auspec, 07:07:19 08/29/03 Fri

Metals markets will be closed Mon for Labor Day & close early today: Gold at 12:10PM & Silver at 12:05PM

I will be out and about but if anyone is interested it will be MOST interesting towatch the last 5 minutes in the gold market especially, today. It's not real paint they use..........merely a whitewash.

It will also be interesting to see exactly how each foreign gold market performed last night.

Crescendo?

[Edit]
Silver hit -- Silver Aussie Six Pack, 04:27:02 08/29/03 Fri

North Korea gone troppo mate, expect big fallout(cloud), silver will go to the moon, make no mistake or my name is not Six Pack mateys.

[Edit]
Up -- HBM, 04:24:39 08/29/03 Fri

Even an attack on POG just before or just after the NY open will probably not stop a very good move up today, IMO.

HBM

[Edit]
POG move in the wee hours -- HBM, 03:59:36 08/29/03 Fri

Just before 3:00 AM Eastern Time, prior to the London open, POG made a move to the upside. Not unusual for a move in either direction at that time.

A little after 5:00 AM Eastern Time gold again moved to the upside. This was a couple of hours after the London open. This was approximately halfway between the London open and the New York open. Seems to be significant to me. Why?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

HBM

[Edit]
It's just too quiet -- $hifty, 23:52:48 08/28/03 Thu

It's just too quiet. Something's up. You can almost feel it!

[Edit]
IMF Message -- Looking Ahead, 20:29:58 08/28/03 Thu

According to the Financial Times, the IMF is going to warn USA about deficit. Advise to keep interest low if not lower. Make pronouncements on currency exchanges, etc., etc.

[Edit]
Avalanche Alert- We have a couple weeks at most til Iran or Saudi Arabia takes the heat and/or the derivative bubble pops? -- Goldustorm, 20:05:55 08/28/03 Thu

http://www.etherzone.com/2003/henr082803.shtml
MORE TROUBLES FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
By: Ed Henry
Almost on cue, the "bond market" is declining. The U.S. Treasury is finding itself unable to sell all of the Treasury securities it would like to sell meaning that President Bush is unable to borrow as much money as he planned. In other words, a major and unique source of revenue for the federal government is beginning to dry up.
Of course, the powers in Washington and their loyal media prefer to present this with a happy face by showing the public that deficits for the current year are not going to be as disastrous as predicted just weeks ago. Instead of the $455 billion deficit, we can now take heart in the fact that the deficit for fiscal 2003 may only be slightly above $400 billion. Isn't that wonderful?
I don't think there's a connection, but the Bush Beans television commercial is simply too analogous to resist—let's roll that wonderful bean footage. The secret family recipe is known only to the faithful dog Duke "and he's not talking." But there's a large field sign that from the air reads "secret family recipe for sale. Contact Duke."
In real life, we are the family being sold out. And we are left to determine whether it's UFOs, the over extension of big mortgage houses like Fannie Mae hedging too much in derivatives, the devaluation of the dollar to foreign currency, or investors losing faith in the American taxpayer's ability to continue paying interest and principal.
In a previous article titled "$2 Billion A Day, where's it going?" I outlined the controversy surrounding the possible decline in the sale of treasuries. You might want to review that article before reading further.
So far, in the month of August, treasury sales have declined from $2.6 billion a day borrowed in July ($81 billion in total) to $1.2 billion per day so far in August (as of Monday, the 25th). That's a drop of more than half, and it is doubtful things are going to change much in the next five days or so.
Let's get specific.
On July 31st, the U.S. Treasury put (tendered) $44.9 billion worth of 2-year notes on the "auction" block at an annual interest rate of 1.5 percent and only $25 billion were sold (accepted). The Federal Reserve picked up another $4.9 billion of these notes for a total of $29.9 billion sold. That's two-thirds the offering.
On August 15th, the Treasury put $44.7 billion worth of 5-year notes on the block at 3.25 percent interest and only $18 billion were sold. The Federal Reserve picked up an additional $3.4 billion worth of these notes. That's less than half the offering.
Also on August 15th, the Treasury put $35.7 billion worth of 10-year notes on the block at 4.25 percent annual interest and only $18 billion were sold. Here, the fed picked up $2.5 billion more.
In its huge mix of "something for everyone" in bonds, bills, notes, and savings bonds available in flavors from two weeks to ten years maturity (the long term 30 year bond no longer exists), the Bureau of Public Debt, run by the little known and never interviewed Mr. Van Zeck, is constantly selling securities to replace those maturing at the rate of more than $5 billion a day while also issuing new securities to add to our ever increasing national debt.
The Federal Reserve's role in picking up securities that do not sell to investors at auction, and holding those which do not then sell through the fed's ten subsidiary banks, also raises many questions about fiat money, devaluation of the dollar, and inflation when the big utilities and others following this action raise their prices accordingly.
I suppose we should be thankful that, as they have in the past, the Federal Reserve isn't picking up all of the securities that don't sell to investors. It's bad enough that the fed currently holds more than 17 percent of the national debt.
In the past, raising interest rates has always worked to tempt and entice investors. Such raises are already happening with ramifications to the mortgage market despite Greenspeak's prime lending rate of merely one percent.
In a radio address on August 9, 2003, Representative Charles W. Stenholm (D-Texas) gave us another of the rare truths about Social Security when he said: "The President's budget office recently projected that the budget deficit will be more than $450 billion this year and $475 billion next year, even with the spending levels and economic assumptions in the President's budget. Staggering as they are, those numbers understate the true magnitude of our problem because they do not include money borrowed from Social Security and other trust funds."
Wherever we end up at the close of fiscal 2003 on September 30th, you can add at least $150 billion to the deficit figure you will be presented, Enron style, from the Bush administration. You will then have the real deficit. A world record.
Finally, if the "bond market" continues to decline we will have destroyed a valuable constitutionally authorized method of raising emergency money. And if it slips beyond the point where we are merely adding more horrendous debt on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren, but gets to the point where we can no longer keep pace with the immediate replacement of maturing debt, then we are in deep doo-doo. It's called the road to bankruptcy.
How long do you think investors can continue to have faith in the taxpayer's ability to pay them back when people aren't working or aren't working on much more than the products and promotion of war?
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
Ed Henry is the founder of TUFF, the Taxpayers Union, and a regular columnist for Ether Zone.
Ed Henry can be reached at ctzcrank@mindspring.co
What of this coincidence? London power outage occurred exactly two weeks from both the Northeast US blackout and September 11 2nd anniversary. God help us.

[Edit]
MSN news headline today: -- Goldus, 20:01:24 08/28/03 Thu

North Korea May Declare Itself A Nuclear Nation
"By golly, those slanty eyed Asians ARE backstabbin, nogood chinks after all. Didn't I tell ya? Wait til they gotta cry to the Chinese gooks to save their little butts."- Screamin Joe Sixpack votes for more Defense Department outlays, black budgets and alphabet agencies

[Edit]
Aussie Silver Sixpack -- auspec, 11:50:47 08/28/03 Thu

"Referred to this site by a friend. What is the hottest speculative Aussie silver stock out there? [either primary or secondary mining stock] Or non-Aussie stocks but listed in Australia? Thanks in advance."

A hearty welcome to you, ASSP! I hope someone here can answer your silver question, but I cannot. There ARE serious silver buggs amongst and lots of em, but I dunno if any follow the Aussie issues.

Excellon, EXN on the Canadian Venture is plenty speculative, but I doubt seriously it trades on the Australian Exchange. These seem to be somewhat separate markets, no?

Regards to U,

auspec

P.S. Ya like the silver, eh?

[Edit]
auspec -- qwerty, 11:06:55 08/28/03 Thu

>IT IS NOT A GOLD FEAR FACTOR!!!

my first impression of guyatt was that he was disinfo because he seemed to be countering GATA's message which seem to have better research ... as one read's guyatt's other writing further, he seems like someone who wants to get out the truth

they really aren't countering one another upon closer examination ... their info seems like part of the bigger picture of gold market ...

i think there are multiple layers to the economic system ... the deeper one goes into the layers, the more hidden it is

the media and economists just banter about the outer layer which just keeps the population dumb down about the real economy

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 11:02:46 08/28/03 Thu

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Peter Brimelow's commentary this morning at CBSMarketWatch,
appended in its entirety, is especially wonderful for indicating
that newsletter editor Richard Band has joined those wondering
out loud whether the Federal Reserve has been trying to suppress
the gold price.

Enjoy the secret knowledge of the gold cult while it remains a
mere cult, and get your gold while you can. Now that even
respectable newsletter editors are sensing that something has
been wrong in the gold market, the golden cat may be getting
out of the bag, and, once out, it may prove to be more tiger
than calico.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Gold timers seem hard to impress

By Peter Brimelow
CBS.MarketWatch.com
Thursday, Aug. 28, 2003
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={93F83650-80B3-4200-
8B70-A2860F1E2658}&siteid

NEW YORK -- What if they gave a gold rally and nobody came?

OK, it's not that extreme.

But gold's gapping upward yesterday -- bullion was up almost $11
at one point, to $374.50 -- does not seem to have excited the
gold timers monitored by the Hulbert Financial Digest.

Last night, the HFD recorded their average exposure at 54.17
percent.

That's high, but far from the recorded peak of 89.6 percent.

And, even more significant, it was unchanged from the previous
night, despite gold's dramatic day.

Even comment from the investment letters was quite modest and
subdued.

Peter Eliades of Stock Market Cycles applied his esoteric cycle
theory:

"Today's rally in Gold generated a nominal 20 week projection
in the metal calling for 375.90-386.60. There is no equivalent
upside projection in the XAU, however and today's high of
375.40 came very close to satisfying the lower window of the
gold projection."

Chris Temple of National Investor Update (new to the HFD
but well ahead of the market over the past 30 months):

"Gold's activities are still ruled largely by short-term traders.
One reason for today's action, in fact, is that some options
contracts for August were expiring. It appears that at least
some of the impetus for today's surge was many of the
same speculators who had expiring contracts, say, at a
gold price of $365 or $370 goosed a thin market higher so
as to exit the older positions at a better level. This is reason
to give us a little worry that today's breakout could turn out to
be a temporary wonder. I'd feel better about the gold
market-and the current pricey level of gold shares-if there
was more evidence that stronger, longer-term hands were a
bigger factor..."

Temple concludes: "If gold is sooner rather than later able
to move above late May's high of $378 per ounce with any
conviction, another $20 could quickly be tacked on. At the
first sign of a loss of momentum, however-and especially
if we start to see an unwinding of the record net long
positions-we'll want to cut back...

"For now, keep to your 15 percent portfolio weighting in
gold shares."

On Tuesday morning, Profitable Investing's Richard Band
had been equally demanding, and wary of manipulation:

"A showdown is approaching for gold and gold shares.

"Looking at my charts, it's apparent the Midas metal faces
stiff resistance at $370 and ounce -- and an even more
formidable barrier at $380....

"The bears (possibly including the Federal Reserve) fervently
hope they can stop the metal before it breaches either
obstacle. Bullion dealers and other large commercial
interests have placed huge bets on the short (sell) side of
the gold futures market. Meanwhile, large speculators
(managed funds, for the most part) are buying futures at
a record pace. One side of this trade is going to prove
spectacularly right, and one side will lose its shirt."

Band said any gold move had to come "within the next
two weeks" and advised baling out if bellwether Newmont
Mining didn't top $40 by Sept. 9.

Newmont closed Wednesday at $39.16.

All this is right up Richard Russell's street. Dow Theory
Letter's septuagenarian superbear exulted last night:

"The public is not even aware the gold is rising in terms
of dollars....And that's how I know that we're still in the
first phase of the gold bull market....

"Today was a big day for gold shares, and happily was
not commented on by CNBC. We'll see if the Wall Street
Journal even mentions gold tomorrow.

"And the 'stealth' bull market in gold continues."

END

[Edit]
The Feds Paint the Tape............Once More -- auspec, 10:46:20 08/28/03 Thu

POG closed at 1:30 EST at $369.90.........smacked for a buck the last few minutes, AGAIN, and brought under the $370 level. It's kinda fun to watch and is most predictable as one can see.

Who, in their right mind, would play this paper game and not plan on delivery? Oops..........sorry Jim Sinclair. CRIMEX sets the price, delivery or no delivery, so the likes of dr Hwang, or the Arabs, or whoever still can buy precious at the depressed prices, no?

If anyone has the COMEX volume the last 5 minutes in comparison to the entire day..........'twoud be most illuminating.

[Edit]
Gold Bashing @ the Close? -- auspec, 10:29:48 08/28/03 Thu

Let's see if gold is hit hard again the last couple minutes. At 1:22 EST POG was $370.90.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 07:54:30 08/28/03 Thu

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Worth reading tonight as you enjoy today's breakout
of gold and silver prices....

Jim Sinclair's "Gold Market Summary" for Wednesday,
at this hour the second item on his Internet site's
home page:

http://www.jsmineset.com/s/Home.asp

And trader Rick Ackerman again talks openly about
the Federal Reserve's likely tampering with the gold
market -- if a few years after it was brought to his
attention (better late than never):

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/ackerman/ackerman082803.html

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]
Black Gold........silvertigo & qwerty -- auspec, 06:41:45 08/28/03 Thu

Be sure to look on Forum 2 for a very detailed analysis of BG.........this has been a work in progress over the ER years. These links will also be placed there. The "Tenets" were worked out by ER folks VERY interested in the BG subject. They are not complete. I have never seen such a detailed discussion anywhere else around the net.

{qwerty} "i remember reading a little about him a couple years ago but didn't reach any conclusion at that time since i was just beginning to look at gold"

"here is a synopsis ..."

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/secret_gold_treaty.htm

"How many tons or ounces of gold does Guyatt think is out there and not officially accounted for ?"





{Silvertigo} "Does anyone think that the black gold is in LBMA or Comex standard bar purity and size? How about quantity? I believe there is a lot out there."

"I have read David Guyatt's materials over the years and it doesn't appear likely that this black gold: 1) Exists in the amounts "of multiples of known reserves" 2) Exists in the Comex bar form and purity 3) Would be used, regardless of likely large quantity, to suppress a bull market in which TPTB consisting of EUROpeans, Asians, Arabs, Russians and others have a vested interest, hidden agenda and major hedge. Are you thinking along these lines?"


auspec--- It is highly likely that this gold is NOT in any standard form in toto. Of course, incremental amounts can and likely have been converted over the years.......a gold lAundering so to speak. Various refiners have had links to cia types as memory serves me. David Guyatt's work on trading programmes demonstrates how some gold is continually brought out of the BG caches into greedy hands or even thirsty markets. This is a new trail to follow since ER's previous analysis of BG. This means that gold DEMAND over the decades since WW2 has been enormously larger than admitted.........for the BG has NOT been accounted.

I do believe that BG has existed as a multiple of what is conventionally recognized as above ground gold supply, the amounts are staggering. The quantities have, however, clearly been diminished over the years, some to market to contain gold, some into insider hands for personal enrichment. The ultimate quid pro quo. BG is not easily or readily made available for a multitude of reasons.......this becomes quite obvious the more one looks into the issues. IT IS NOT A GOLD FEAR FACTOR!!! It clearly has been used to assist the 'good guys' during the Cold War decades. IT IS MOST OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE DUMPED ONTO THE GOLD MARKET TO KILL IT...........any more than DeBeers would do the same with diamonds!!! When Bill Murphy calls these blokes a "cartel" he hits the nail on the head more than realized.

When thinking of gold markets it is best to think, "murky", "dirty", "special ops", etc, etc. That is the norm.......ask the Edmond Saffra surviving heirs.

Parallel markets, parallel elitist kingpins, and a parallel gold world........that's the way of the world. Gold is POWER, gold can be the manifestation of GREED, gold is the perfect vehicle for shady or back door dealings.

Personally, I'm 10 fold more convinced of gold's ultimate destination by observing the battle from $250 POG to the current $370 POG than I am from analyzing these BG issues. Most gold bugs are in total denial re BG, imh&so. We're going higher............their obvious & total desperation tells us so.

[Edit]
Silver mates -- Aussie Silver Sixpack, 03:05:16 08/28/03 Thu

Referred to this site by a friend. What is the hottest speculative Aussie silver stock out there? [either primary or secondary mining stock] Or non-Aussie stocks but listed in Australia? Thanks in advance.

[Edit]
POS -- Netking, 02:55:08 08/28/03 Thu



'97-'98 top and beyond would be a good market target for the short term to exceed.

[Edit]
@auspec, all -- Silvertigo, 22:32:05 08/27/03 Wed

Does anyone think that the black gold is in LBMA or Comex standard bar purity and size? How about quantity? I believe there is a lot out there. Tomorrow I will go to nexus
magazine.com to see if Guyatt's latest material is posted there or else read it at his blacklies place. Thanks.

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 22:06:54 08/27/03 Wed











US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]










LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
@auspec -- Silvertigo, 21:02:47 08/27/03 Wed

I have read David Guyatt's materials over the years and it doesn't appear likely that this black gold: 1) Exists in the amounts "of multiples of known reserves" 2) Exists in the Comex bar form and purity 3) Would be used, regardless of likely large quantity, to suppress a bull market in which TPTB consisting of EUROpeans, Asians, Arabs, Russians and others have a vested interest, hidden agenda and major hedge. Are you thinking along these lines?

[Edit]
auspec -- qwerty, 20:11:46 08/27/03 Wed

i remember reading a little about him a couple years ago but didn't reach any conclusion at that time since i was just beginning to look at gold

here is a synopsis ...

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/secret_gold_treaty.htm

How many tons or ounces of gold does Guyatt think is out there and not officially accounted for ?

i can't name any economists that i really like to read. i pretty much hate them all. they seem to all talk about economics in a very sanitized, abstract and superficial way. they talk in the official language of the so called establishment and ruling class.

you ever hear stephen roach talk about all the dirt under the rug. he stays within the boundaries set up by the ruling world cabal. the issues for him are policies when it should be about criminals running the financial system.
unfortunately, he is what most people rather hear about because he doesn't upset the status quo. if the american people had to confront that criminals are running the system, they would not be upset because criminals are running the system but upset because they would have to get off their asses and do something. that scares americans more than anything. better to just look the other way or tune it out.


I think I will read his books at some point ...

[Edit]
GATA re Gold Gone -- auspec, 19:28:40 08/27/03 Wed

[GATA] Central banks don't have the gold anymore, Sprott's Embry tells Investor
Canada
Date: 8/27/2003 7:50:19 PM Central Standard Time
From: GATAComm@aol.com
To: gata@yahoogroups.com


8:42p ET Wednesday, August 27, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

John Embry, president of Sprott Asset Management
in Toronto, today gave an interview to Investor
Canada and again publicized the essence of GATA's
findings about the gold market. The interview is
appended.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

INVESTOR CANADA INTERVIEWS JOHN EMBRY,
PRESIDENT OF SPROTT ASSET MANAGEMENT

http://www.investorcanada.com/interview.php?
contentID=1525&display=transcript

Investor Canada: Welcome to InvestorCanada.com. I'm
Donna Guzik. John Embry has been watching the gold
market for many years. He of course made a name for
himself garnering stellar returns for the Royal Precious
Metals Fund. He's now president and portfolio manager
of Sprott Asset Management. He manages the Sprott
Gold and Previous Metal Fund there.

John, last time we spoke it was January. You said the
price of gold would be moving higher as a result not of
Iraq or any of those issues, but as a result of a weaker
U.S. dollar and the United States getting more aggressive
about monetary printing to stave off any deflation. Do
you still feel that that is the case?

Embry: Well, absolutely. I think basically that, sure,
we're having some economic recovery here, but they've
been throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it.

I think the deflationary pressure still exists. I mean, the
combination of China exports, the Internet, there's far
too much debt in the system that there's a lot of
deflationary pressure.

The United States cannot take deflation, so they will
err on the side of ease. They will print a lot of money
and they are so doing. If you look at the M3 growth
recently, it's staggering. So, yes, I think this is a real
underpinning for gold.

Investor Canada: Well, let's talk about some of the
other factors that are affecting the price of gold. You
had said previously that mine supply will contract over
the next few years. Where is the supply of gold going to
come from? Where is the demand going to come from?

Embry: Well, the demand is going to, in my opinion, is
going to come from people trying to sort of diversify
away from paper money as it becomes more apparent
that all governments are printing money in a
beggar-thy-neighbor type policy, to keep their exports
competitive. I think that more people around the world
will feel the need to have a little more gold in their portfolio.
So I'm not the least bit concerned about the demand
side. The supply side is another issue. I mean, the fact
is I don't think gold mine output will improve.

I think it will fall the next three to four years as a result
of the dearth of exploration in the post-BreX period.

When gold prices were low for an extended time, the
producing mines high-graded considerably and didn't
do a lot of the sustaining capital development. And it's
just a natural exhaustion of mines.

With all those combinations, in the next two or three
years gold production is going to fall irrespective of what
prices do.

Then if prices do what I think they're going to do, which
is go up materially, there will be lots of exploration, lots
of gold mines found, but they won't be put in production
until the latter part of this decade.

So in the near term, I think the supply/demand equation
for gold is excellent.

Investor Canada: So are you looking for the juniors to do
the exploration work and the larger companies to buy them
up?

Embry: Yes, I think that sort of will be the new. It's ongoing,
really. The seniors have pulled back in their exploration and
they're more content to let the juniors raise money, find the
stuff and then cherry-pick the ones they like.

Investor Canada: How important is the role of central banks
that hold gold and may sell gold? Recently one of the
European central banks that was not a member of the
Washington Gold Agreement of 1999 sold about 20 tonnes.
Does that have much of an impact on the supply?

Embry: Well, it's had a huge impact and the central banks,
in conjunction with their associates, the bullion banks, have
been controlling the gold price for years. The problem is that
they're running out of ammunition. They allegedly own
31,000 tonnes. In reality they've probably lent half of that,
which has already been sent into the market and sold. So
I think they're going to become less and less a factor.

And more importantly, I think that the Asian central banks
-- the Chinese, the Taiwanese, the Japanese, et al. -- are
getting more and more dollars. They're carrying these
enormous current account surpluses. They're just getting
stuffed with dollars.

I think they're the natural buyer for any central bank gold
that's going to come for sale out of the European central
banks. So I don't see this as a big factor going forward at all.

Investor Canada: Well, this Washington Gold Agreement,
as I understand, is expected to be reviewed.

Embry: It comes to an end a year from now, in September
2004. And you know, right now they're selling 400 only
tons a year. Given the deficit in the market between mine
supply and what I think the demand is going to look like,
they could easily sell twice that and not come anywhere
close to filling the gap. So I don't see this thing as a factor
at all.

Investor Canada: Let's talk a little bit about some of the
gold companies you're looking at. Who do you like right
now?

Embry: I've got some smaller ones that I've gotten really
interested in, and I've had quite good success in to date.
One that I'm very keen on is one called Queenstake, which
bought the Jarod Canyon Mine from AngloGold and
Meridian. And it's a 300,000-ounce producer. It's in
production and they've got all the environmental things
bonded, so that's all covered.

Investor Canada: Where is that based?

Embry: It's in Nevada. The real key to the story is that
when they bought it, it had only two years of obvious
reserves available for production. They believe that they
can convert resources that are already identified for at
least another four years, and they see tremendous
exploration potential beyond that.

If this is the case, this is an extremely cheap stock and
it's trading around 63 cents. There's a lot of shares out,
about 300 million. But this is very inexpensive, given the
production they're going to have. I see it as a terrific
levered play on higher gold prices.

Investor Canada: Do you have a target price on this stock?

Embry: Oh yes, I'd say at least a buck and a quarter in the
short run, over the next six months.

Investor Canada: And which other companies do you like
right now?

Embry: I continue to like Southwestern Resources, which
has this enormous mineralised zone in China, which I think
could contain well in excess of 10 million ounces of
economic grade. They're going to get more and more drilling
results from there, but it's slow going because it's a hard core
to drill. But I think that as people get more confidence in this
thing, the valuation is going to move up significantly.

Investor Canada: Are there any companies do you think
investors should really be staying away from right now?

Embry: Well, there's one that's been stinking it up pretty
good lately, and this is this Apollo Gold, which I unfortunately
have a small position in, which I inherited incidentally. They
were mining two of the old Pegasus Mines in Montana and
Nevada. I think they're poor-quality mines and now they're
sort of running out of money. So that's one that I'm not
terribly enthused about at this point.

Investor Canada: If investors aren't currently in gold stocks,
why should they be?

Embry: I firmly believe that everyone who has any significant
assets should have a minimum of 10 percent in gold or gold
shares or a combination thereof. I like gold bullion as well.
I think it's actually a safer way to play it, because there's
always things that could go wrong with gold companies.

Investor Canada: Where do investors get bullion?

Embry: I'm glad you asked because there's a new vehicle
called Central Gold Trust. You can buy it on the TSX
(CGT.UN) and it's a pure gold play. All it owns is gold. It's
very vanilla. There's no bells and whistles. It's straight
gold
and it's a very simple way to buy gold.

Investor Canada: Well, I'm glad I asked.

Embry: I'm glad you did too because I think it's a heck of a
vehicle that people should really consider.

END

[Edit]
MIDAS -- auspec, 16:50:20 08/27/03 Wed

Reprinted w permission:

"Back to the REALLY BIG PLAYERS taking on The Gold Cartel. Knowing what GATA knows is the key. Unlike what the mainstream gold world tells its clients, this big money must know half the central bank gold is GONE! That 10,000+ tonnes of leased/swapped gold central bank gold not reported by the gold establishment is an enormous difference. (The gold establishment reports less than 5,000 tonnes gold having left the central bank vaults.) Yes, the central banks still have around 16,000 tonnes, but a majority of what IS left is not going anywhere. The gold which can come out is disappearing at an astonishing rate, FROM A PERCENTAGE POINT OF VIEW. It is so bad the Greeks were called on to sell gold coins."

"It wouldn’t take that much money (in a relative sense) to buy up the available central bank gold, ALL OF IT! Then you take a look at what the US is doing in Iraq and at our own growing budget deficits and you say a play like this makes total sense. Of course, the bullion dealers will pooh-pooh talk like this all the way up because they are short and trapped."

"Let’s have a little fun. The US says it won’t sell its 8,000 tonnes. The IMF supposedly cannot do anything with its 3,000 tonnes. The French WONT sell or lend their 3,000 tonnes. That leaves two to three thousand tonnes left to hit the market. Then keep in mind there are many other countries who will not sell what gold they have left. However, for conversation sake, at $360 gold various official sector buyers (or significant investment groups) could buy the remaining 3,000 tonnes for around $34 billion. If various governments want to shift more of their dollar reserves into gold, it could happen fairly quickly. I’m not saying this is what is happening, but it is food for thought. A lot less than $34 billion would squeeze the market."

"It is also important to keep in mind there is a 1400+ tonne yearly supply/demand deficit. The central banks need to feed that much into the market to keep the price from rising. They are stuck and remind me of heroin acts. They need their fix. If they stop addiction, they will go into withdrawal. The gold price will go bananas. It is only a matter of time before they go down. Perhaps that time is now!"

"The Gold Cartel will fight and fight, but soon gold will shoot up like Mt. Vesuvias."

"Silver was not only ready to rumble, it IS rumbling. I find it interesting New York silver is now quoted at a three cent premium to London. As long as I can remember, it was the reverse with silver trading two cents under London."

Silver
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/SV/93

"Platinum made new 23-year highs, closing at $714, up $19.
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PL/A3

"It won’t be that long before we are using the platinum prices for gold prices."

END

Comment: Yes, there is likely a group of "REALLY BIG PLAYERS" going after gold..........the physical market is like a sponge. China boys according to our dr v.

This battle will not be for the feint of heart. Of course, the 8000 tons of gold allocated to the US in the above snippet is likely imaginary.

I am in the middle of reading David Guyatt's Hammer File Updated piece, as it related to 'trading programmes'. Essentially, laundering and distributing various amounts of "Black Gold" and other valuables. All the well known names come up in this piece.........those who participate in a parallel financial world. For whatever reason, this gold was not available to keep POG at $250 or less. I believe it to be distributed into strong hands instead of being squandered in a price suppression scheme.

IF one believes there are large amounts of off the books gold out and about...........one would be wise to adapt a strategy that hits a grand slam homer with POG no higher than $425 or $450. It may or may not go higher and if it goes considerably higher the world in which we live will be greatly altered.........chaos. Until the global collectivists choose a position sufficiently high to act as an impenetrable firewall........."we" will continue to win battle after battle, taking gold incrementally higher and higher. $390 is far from impenetrable........they need to regroup and get their act together much closer to $500, imho. An orderly retreat is called for at this point. Sometimes one should just cut the losses, take the lumps and start afresh.

Now.........about that bases clearing homer..........

[Edit]
@Goldus, Goldustorm (same entity?) and Murray -- Galearis, 16:29:48 08/27/03 Wed

I have copied the Kitco chart for the POS and may even print it out and frame it! Although I have been wrong before, and Bill Murphy has been early on harping about the warnings for traders to "not be short the silver market now", AND the first early projection time for silver to blow is right now (right you may well be, Murray, your call looks GREAT now), I now think the tightness in physical supply is really starting to be felt. For over a month "they" have been trying to take silver down past the psycologically significant $5 mark and have failed miserably. It is probably time to crow for glee as the shorts start to cover today. As I hope, an historical day!

Talking to Rhody the other day (and playing catch-up in all this), the feeling is that China may be starting to rethink its dumping policy - or making noises that they will be curbing somewhat. That is all it would take.

Who would be dumb enough to want to lease metal with this pending? Hence the L.R.s plummet. Supply and demand in a way.....

Regards,

G

[Edit]
@ dotti & All.....re-hashing an old subject. -- beesting, 16:11:48 08/27/03 Wed

Ron Paul on "Legal Tender Laws".
(Snip)

@ dotti...A Mis-Conception! -- beesting, 09:38:01 07/29/03 Tue

Hi dotti, here is the message I am refering to:
(Snip)@ Sojo & dotti -- beesting, 20:21:30 07/27/03 Sun

The dollar is an I.O.U. note that people(me included) have been slowly conditioned to accept for
goods and services.

Dotti: Actually, beesting, I think that it is law that one has to accept the FRNs in payment of debt.
That’s what my parents told me. (Unsnip)
************************************************************
From Ron Pauls Recent Speech To Congress About Legal Tender Laws:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr072503.htm
(Snip)
Another prescient Justice was Stephen Field, the only Justice to dissent in every legal tender case to come before the
Court. Justice Field accurately described the dangers to our constitutional republic posed by legal tender laws: "The
arguments in favor of the constitutionality of legal tender paper currency tend directly to break down the barriers
which separate a government of limited powers from a government resting in the unrestrained will of Congress. Those
limitations must be preserved, or our government will inevitably drift from the system established by our Fathers into a
vast, centralized, and consolidated government." A government with unrestrained powers is properly characterized as
tyrannical.

Repeal of legal tender laws will help restore constitutional government and protect the people's right to a medium of
exchange chosen by the market, thereby protecting their current purchasing power as well as their pensions, savings,
and other promises of future payment. Because honest money serves the needs of ordinary people, instead of fiat
irredeemable paper-ticket electronic money that improperly transfers the wealth of society to a small specially
privileged financial elite along with other special interests, I urge my colleagues to cosponsor the Honest Money Act.(Unsnip)

[Edit]
@Galearis -- Goldus, 15:23:53 08/27/03 Wed

Re: The end of leasing. If I recall, you have posted well on this topic before.

[Edit]
@Galearis -- Goldustorm, 15:15:52 08/27/03 Wed

Good to hear from you again. I see the lease rates on gold are lower the past couple days (haven't checked silver). Pertaining to "commercials afraid of the lease markets"- seems to be happening now. Regards

[Edit]
*********ER CONTEST************ -- auspec, 15:05:17 08/27/03 Wed

Just a few days left in our ER contest now. The Elliot Wavers will all turn bullish on gold somewhere between $390 and $415 or so. They have had a bearish stance for well over a decade and there are LOTS of these guys out there. The gold market will be on fire if EW'ers join the party.

What's gonna stop this from transpiring? Anything possible? Greek gold sells accomplished next to nada for the gold managers. Anything left up their sleeve? Enthusiasm is building greatly...............We're "close" once again..........

[Edit]
Galearis -- Ag_Eagle, 11:03:53 08/27/03 Wed

Howdy man. . . . I see you've been busy you rascal!
Yes it has that feel about things that the forces of control in this tiny market are out of Aces to play & pressure is building under the POS. It could be the next major "market event" will be enough to tip the scale and launch Ag on stage 1 of the ascent. Over $5 is good, but my heart will begin to beat a little faster once we clear $7 . . . I don't think that is too far away G. best regards Netking

[Edit]
@ Ag Eagle and fellow Ranchers -- Galearis, 07:15:58 08/27/03 Wed

I haven't posted in guite some time, and offer no apologies whatsoever for this (how does one do this while skinny- dipping in and bushwacking through the depths of northern Ontario), but I would say that as I type this, with POS at $5.10, that we may well be at the magic, historic day that silver has been working towards.

Enjoy.

And...

best regards

G.

P.S. Watch the lease rates! It truly is a backward world: when L.Rs are low it tells us that the commercials are afraid to use this source. We are also watching the death of leasing here.....

[Edit]
what a spike in gold -- qwerty, 06:02:09 08/27/03 Wed

looking like gold is about to go to the moon

it looks like one of those cabal slam spikes except that this is going up

[Edit]
short covering massive -- volavka, 05:50:21 08/27/03 Wed

up 5.00 now

[Edit]
MTMD -- volavka, 04:48:50 08/27/03 Wed

MTMD (Multiply the melt down).
Schultz is correct in that derivatives did not exist in 1929.

Now tie in the relation of u.s. dollar to chinas currency +
1/3 all interest baring derivative instruments are held in grand cayman (tax structure). What u have is a double gold rush building out of interest baring financial derivatives default and into gold .

The metals will be the beneficuary of the actions of a defective system run by the prince of paper.

[Edit]
Just Compensation For 'Work' Done -- Harvey, 23:02:21 08/26/03 Tue

In a strange incongruous way, the wabbit was attempting to illustrate the futility of our current monetary world and the true value of what one's work/life amounts to, if relegated to the current system of compensation.

The ULTIMATE answer, as many here have addressed, has to be another higher form of value, placed upon one's efforts in life, and a means of realizing those efforts..{possibly emanating from within an individual's deepest understanding of what life is all about}.
While affording each and every one we come into contact with, an equally substantive value for their time, efforts, and energy.

An ellusive search for some common value system, which does not prostitute one's own efforts, or pimp another's energy, and can be realized by all, as an equitable means of transfering payment or storage of same, is an external necessity, {aside from the self and its needs}, that is NOT being made available by our present "userous and onerous" system of monetary compensations.

Does there exist, the possiblity of finding such a utopic means of living, where all compensations have equanimity to the amount of work done? Where all work accomplished, has value?

Just reflecting, in the semi-ambulatory world of the cabbage patch - no real answers sought.

Ambl'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
mr v re the good {?} dr -- auspec, 15:59:31 08/26/03 Tue

sources?
links?
info?
US or European counterpart?
Byong-Moo Hwang?
misc info

tia

[Edit]
gold looking strong -- qwerty, 07:43:46 08/26/03 Tue

gold seems very strong

gold up $2 in blink of an eye
dollar up also

a reversing dollar will produce a lot of kinetic energy in gold when the dollar reverses to push gold above $400

that 335 dolar value index looks like it is being taken out

[Edit]
George W explains the trade deficit... -- number six, 06:40:58 08/26/03 Tue



I'm maybe going a little crazy on the graphics here, but it's just the thrill of the new.

[Edit]
buy silver in late August, apparently -- number six, 02:55:46 08/26/03 Tue



Courtesy of the wonderfully-named Dmitri Speck, at financialsense.com

[Edit]
@ all -- Questioner, 22:04:53 08/25/03 Mon

Thanks for keeping the interesting posts going during the summer. Was able to lurk in from time to time and keep tuned to events going on at Eagle Ranch. You thoughts are really appreciated! :)

Back from the fire fight and had a busy summer. I worked out of Kernville, Ca and was able to catch a lot of fires before they burned up many home in California. Condition of the Sequoia N.F. is really drought stressed. Sad to see the damage done to much of the forest. Hadn't been to the Sequoia N.F. in ten years and climate change is taking it toll. Such is life and change takes its toll.

[Edit]
Research regarding precious metal catalysis -- Questioner, 21:56:34 08/25/03 Mon

Interesting legislation tucked away in the energy bill of 2003. Could be big news for the gold industry. If you are interested go to H.R. 238 and check out section 168 that is titled, "Research regarding precious metal catalysis." Go to the source link: http://fire.pppl.gov/energy_bill_hr238_010803.pdf for the full written piece or check out some of the guts of it from which it is taken:


"2005 may be used to carry out research in the use of pre- 1
cious metals (excluding platinum, palladium, and rho- 2
dium) in catalysis."

Looks like the idea is to use gold in the process of catalytic converters because it performs better at lower temperatures.

You can also go to "The Energy Policy Act of 2003 and go to section 965 Catalysis Research Program.

Interesting stuff.

Looks like out with platinum and pallidium and in with gold. Golden catalytic converters in our future????

[Edit]
Wigginess Of "Work" Revisited -- Harvey, 19:46:56 08/25/03 Mon

"Work" - Different understandings; perhaps as many as there are people to interpret it. From cleaning baby poop to shoveling manure - all within the context of "work", no doubt.

How about this definition: "A trade of human energy, for an equable amount of something of value."? Be it a bartered item, an equal trade of another's work, or anything which has redeemable value.

Centering around the fact that the u.s. has become a debt driven and (supposedly) service based nation - with only a 10% mfg. base, and 86% of what is consumed, is produced out of the country. Is the majority of the u.s. economy based on "servicing" some abitrary debt, as allocated through a fictitious system of userous and onerous means?

These means include infinite layered counter party derivative protection, through the most convoluted gambling schemes [note: rigged scheming markets] ever in the history of man.

Every ascpect of our work related society; from corporate balance sheets, insurances, pensions, savings, to the money itself, is cross current exposed to some, or possibly, the same derivative leverage - all based on virtually zero assets, against unfathomable nanosphere creations of nothing but more cross current schemes.

Most companies in the u.s. are 'leveraged' into the heavens and debt burdened. [example: FoMoCo. 70 bil. in debt against 7 bil. book value] With any true accounting sense, is this beyond redeemability and value?

Wouldn't want to leave out Uncle Fester {aka. u.s.a. corp} - no doubt, leveraged more so than any individual company. Current account deficits are approaching 650 billion; total debt ceiling is constantly being allowed/pushed/demanded higher, into the nano zone, with zero hopes of ever balancing, and now the bonds which are stair step crashing into their true value of nothingness, are making the final stages of dollar capitulation, a "given".

So, work as 'some' know it and was illustrated in the linked article regarding the book, "The Economic Horror" - http://www.jobsletter.org.nz/jbl11310.htm - must come crashing to an end when the MASS of this false economy goes into a debt implosion which vaporizes the majority of the 90% non producing service sector jobs.

It has been that way for the history of all paper debt societies - Romans to Assignats to current FedHead policies, which commenced around the turn of the Century.

As Voltaire said: "All paper fiat, will eventually reach its intrinsic value........zero." Seems we are now approaching that TRUE value zone. And value, as an expression of our work, shall be irrevocably changed in terms of what a person will do for a living.......no?

The ringer - nobody disappears, or goes poof into the ether zone of human in-existance. We all stay and play an evolving series of "who does what, for whom, and how will they/we accept payment for their/our labors, upon learning that the previous game was rigged to steal 'energy' while giving not much of value, in return?"

The end of work, (AS WAS KNOWN) and the beginning of.........?

Flintersan, anyone.......the next stage of human evolution and worthwhile "work"?

Wank'n, er work'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
mr v -- auspec, 16:56:05 08/25/03 Mon

I certainly hope you and the good dr are correct. Jan 1 not too far away............

[Edit]
Where's the unabomber??????????? -- volavka, 05:31:50 08/25/03 Mon

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003391098,00.html

[Edit]
Auspec -- volavka, 04:51:32 08/25/03 Mon

The net has its' share of wanna be like Mikes.
Alot of what one refers to as Bull shitters.

Dr. Hwang is a real person.

His origin is somewhat of a secret to me because he likes his protection.
Living 60+ years thru chinas past one does not open mouth too wide.

I can tell you that he wants gold .

He looks long term and still expects 650.00 before years end.

Key fact still dollar and chinese currency.

I expect this to be the biggest news event in the financial mkts once it becomes clear as to the position.

[Edit]
Silver -- Netking, 02:57:16 08/25/03 Mon

What Impact Will Digital Photography Have on Silver?

As an aside, Hu Jintao [ruler of 1.3b] is due to travel all over soon, one of the first nations on his visiting list [due to be announed for October] since assuming the presidency it seems will include our humble abode. The visiting, beyond mere ceremony has at stake issues of regional influence; both economic and security issues will be on the table as China seeks to balance its interests against those of the US, the other major power in the Asia-Pacific region. The USA seemingly balanced the giving [or not as the case may be] of recent free trade agreements against "security co-operation" whilst China comes . . . it would seem freely giving [Greeks bearing gifts?]. Anyway, the PRC is now seeking to position the US, in particular, as screwing the global trading game against other comers......a military build up going on for sure incl at home in the US and the Asian region as well stated......but don't forget this "battle" will be to large extent economic, trade, forex....in fact the battle may be won or lost without a military shot be fired.

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 23:45:39 08/24/03 Sun











US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]










LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 21:58:43 08/24/03 Sun

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,765.32 + Dow 9,348.87 = 11,114.19 divide by 2 = 5,557.095 Ponzi

up 45.245 from last week.

Is that the "FAT LADY" I hear warming up?

Thanks for the link RossL !

Go GATA!

Go GOLD!

$hifty



[Edit]
mr v...........re dr. hwang -- auspec, 18:09:14 08/24/03 Sun

These poor blokes at the GC headquarters just can't seem to get it right. Now they defend $350 instead of a more solid $410 or so where they could succeed for a MUCH longer time frame. All the years spent trying to drive gold sub $250 to $200 SHOULD have been fought at $350. Just like the feds........a year late and several K tonns short. Pretty out of touch and pretty arogant for sure.

Dr Hwang is Chinese oligarchy, no? Chinese oligarchy differs much from western oligarchies {US/Anglo/European}...........as far as the east is from the west. Much is shared.........assuming much will never be shared. Dr Hwang accumulating, eh? How confrontational or determined to see higher pog do you think "he" will be?
illuminations?

[Edit]
Victory Act -- hAug, 16:42:20 08/24/03 Sun

And coming now is the Victory Act, presumably named in reference to the government's rolling victory of tyranny over freedom.

hAug

" Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of international copyright law. "
" http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html "
blah blah blah


shoot HERE

Congress may consider a bill that not only expands the government's wiretapping and investigative powers but also would link low-level drug dealing to terrorism and ban a traditional form of Middle Eastern banking.

The draft legislation -- titled the Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations Act of 2003, or Victory Act -- includes significant portions of the so-called Patriot Act II, which faced broad opposition from conservatives and liberals alike and embarrassed the Justice Department when it was leaked to the press in February.

The Victory Act also seems to be an attempt to merge the war on terrorism and the war on drugs into a single campaign. It includes a raft of provisions increasing the government's ability to investigate, wiretap, prosecute and incarcerate money launderers, fugitives, "narco-terrorists" and nonviolent drug dealers. The bill also outlaws hawalas, the informal and documentless money transferring systems widely used in the Middle East, India and parts of Asia.

A June 27 draft of the bill, authored by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and co-sponsored by four fellow Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, has been circulating in Washington, D.C.

....

[Edit]
The Patriot Act? -- beesting, 16:26:07 08/24/03 Sun

I recently got into a conversation with a well intentioned Gvt. employee. Somehow a reference to the Patriot act entered into our conversation when the Gvt. employee asked me exactly what is the Patriot act about. I was at a loss for words, except to mumble something about Americans losing their freedoms.
Now after reading Dr. Ron Pauls latest I don't feel so bad, apparently noone in Congress has read and completely understood all 500 pages of the Patriot act.
Here is a sample of what Ron Paul says:
(Snip)
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2003/tst082503.htm

It is clear, however, that the Patriot Act expands the government’s ability to monitor us. The Act
eases federal rules for search warrants in some cases; allows expanded wiretaps and internet
monitoring; allows secret “sneak and peek” searches; and even permits federal agents to examine
library and bookstore records. On these grounds alone it should be soundly rejected.


Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

beesting again: Considering in my state alone there are 270,000 on "State" payrolls,,,,If Patriot act passes how many "personel" would have access to everyones ""PERSONAL"" information???
This Is Still Called "A Free Country"???

[Edit]
Work -- Sojourner, 13:52:54 08/24/03 Sun


IMHO, there is no shame in any honest work.
As an able bodied person, accepting welfare is beyond my realm of thinking.

beesting, I agree with you about baby poop. And although they are paid, what about cleaning up
all the excretions coming from different orifices of an ill person that a nurse is required to do?

Sojo

[Edit]
Canberra defies US troop call -- Netking, 13:48:47 08/24/03 Sun

Australia is resisting overtures from Washington to consider a fresh contribution to coalition forces in Iraq as US officials publicly acknowledge a "deteriorating security environment".

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,7057609%255E601,00.html

[Edit]
Manure -- beesting, 12:07:16 08/24/03 Sun

I don't really see a whole lot of difference between "manure" and a small human babies excrete-ment......And I've done my fair share of cleaning up both, without monetary compensation.

.....beesting either a "FOOL" or a humanitarian?

[Edit]
@HBM -- dotti, 08:37:05 08/24/03 Sun

Now that I think about it, I've come across a few of those in my day.

Thanks for adding your perspective.

dotti

[Edit]
dotti @ 07:00:28 08/24/03 Sun -- Hill Billy Mitchell, 08:32:15 08/24/03 Sun

Hi dotti,

You said and you asked:

“…I always think about the people who work jobs that "nobody wants to do". The people who shovel manure. Do they do it out of pride? Or for survival? Or to work their way up?”

Some do it not so much out of pride but out of goodness. I am certain of it!

HBM

[Edit]
bob chapman -- qwerty, 07:40:59 08/24/03 Sun

====
As we explained almost four years ago that in order to cover the coming financial debacle that our elitists would continue one war after another. We called it perpetual war for perpetual peace. Unfortunately we were correct. For a thousand years the conspiracy has financed both sides of every major war and most smaller conflicts. Wars are started because the elitists need external enemies to blame for financial failure and at the same time they exert internal control over their own people. That is why today’s America is becoming a fascist state. George W. Bush wants to be its new Hitler. This has nothing to do with right-wing or left-wing politics. It has to do with a group of apolitical people who want and have power and wealth.

America is no longer a republic or a democracy. George W. Bush was elected in a rigged election, so he never was legally elected by a majority of the people. You are getting the government that the elitists think, you deserve. The people around Mr. Bush, who like to call themselves his cabal, are not neo-conservatives, they are not right-wing, they are no longer Trotskyites or Marxists, they are members of the New World Order, a conspiracy designed to enslave America and then the remainder of the world. What they are doing is treason. This is nothing new. We last saw the same exercise in the 1930s and 40s in Germany. Just look and read and you will see Hitler did the same things George W. Bush is doing today. This is all no mystery; it is just unfortunate that people can’t take time to read history.

George W. Bush’s National Security Strategy for the US confers upon him and his cabal the divine right to devastate any nation they dislike or that has vast oil fields or other natural resources to plunder. Anyone who disagrees is unpatriotic, a terrorist, or an enemy of the state. This is how terrorism is used to justify Fatherland Security and an infrastructure that suppresses dissent. Our president’s obsession with terror is the new contrived pretext for solidifying world domination, and as well to internally control America. The 170,000 brown-shirted zombies provide the internal security Mr. Bush needs to assure the continuity of his political power indefinitely. Rather than through force of arms the elitists use the social structure, and through the legal criminality of the social system and its institutions of government execute tacit violence upon the populace. You Americans have no idea what these depraved cretins in Washington have in store for you. It is too gruesome at this time in this publication. Selective terror and blacklists are enough to neutralize all but perhaps 15% of the population. That is accompanied by arrests on the word of anonymous informants, loss of due process, military tribunals, illegal incarceration and deportation. This is the New America. We know currently that thousands of people are being held for as long as two years without charges being laid.

The Homeland Security Council, which Mr. Bush chairs, sets policy for a secret political warfare program. This is a black ops program designed for many reasons, particularly to suppress political opposition and that includes assassinations usually by contract employees. Or perhaps he’ll use personal from the Terrorist Threat Intelligence group with 1,000 analysts from dozens of agencies, which coordinates the other directorates in terror operations. They will also manage the CIA’s domestic action squads, interrogation and informant programs as well as coordinate all in-coming intelligence for state, local and private sector officials. Mind you it is illegal for the CIA to perform any domestic operations. The CIA’s Counter-Terror Center will fill the most important positions within the Office of Intelligence. They will plan daily operations in conjunction with fellow Counter-Terror Center offices posted within 93 Justice Department task forces, which will plant the latest electronic surveillance gadgets in every corner of society, such as houses, workplaces, public facilities and computers to find terrorists and launch preemptive attacks to neutralize them before they activate. There are already hundreds of businesses and institutions on the CIA Watch List. They are aided in this endeavor by all agencies of government and that includes the SEC. These spy agencies are also already slanting estimates to fit a political agenda. They are shutting up and out anyone not involved in their operations. Probable cause is a lost empty phrase. These are the same gangs that illegally invaded Iraq, set up a puppet government and stole their oil to enrich themselves.

The new Fatherland Security and the Homeland Social structure are illegal. The same precepts were used in the Phoenix Program in Vietnam with some of the same players. These people are going to wage political warfare on the American people. Of course, there will be the blackmail, false arrests, etc. to ruin the reputations of politically incorrect families. Fear will lead to paranoia until no one knows for sure who is a spy for the thought police. During the coming depression the midnight arrests will begin as well as disappearances into administrative detention centers. Those who escape and hide will be hunted down and liquidated. The definition of sedition and treason will grow to include disseminating anything negative about the government. You will be guilty of undermining the will of the state by challenging its authority. Our government is going to wage political warfare against us via implicit and explicit terror. We didn’t dream this up; we got it straight out of Washington. This is what the elitists have planned for you.

===

when gold does go up, there will be a lot of gold bugs in euphoria

i don't care how much gold goes up, it will never compensate for the desruction of america and the constitution

the new world order doesn't scare me

the scariest aspect of everything is that most american people are politically dumb as a stump and many even if they did know would be indifferent

on a larger scale, it will not happen overnight


the agencies need to train a lot of people and gain enough experience

they need to complete the databases to locate people

they need to create the so called legal framework and precedents

they will need to shut down the last remnants of independent media ... internet and shortwave etc

there will be arrests of more prominent people

the acts of domestic terrorism ( carried out by nwo/homeland security) against america will increase

another sign would be bob chapman fleeing the country or disappearing

honest and patriotic people within the agency who awaken will get purged and targeted

the people who are aware and have resources will likely have the opportunity to find a new life out of harms way

some of the masses will awaken in compartmentalized ways

people who are hit hard economically may awaken a little and become more politically vocal. getting politically active after a long time dormant will be very hazardous to the sheep. they won't even know what hit them.

the nwo will have discretion as to when it starts in a major way. it will be like us wondering when the gold suppression will end ... it could be 2 years or 20 years

also the nwo has beauracracies run by a lot of stupid people who won't be able to follow the plan so even the nwo will run into major problems in implementation

and maybe the masses will be so lethargic that energizing their beauracracies will be an enormous task

the american sheep will deserve the harsh agenda of the new world order in all it's gusto. if it were they who were just affected then justice would be served. it would be the punitve damage for political stupidity and indifference.

i'll just try to get out of the way and find some place more quiet and peaceful to live. let the sheep clean up their own mess.

i think once you gold bugs get rich, it may be a good idea to have a back up home someplace else just to be on the safe side

[Edit]
Re: AuWag - Meanderings On The Wigginess Of Work -- Harvey, 16:17:10 08/23/03 Sat -- dotti, 07:00:28 08/24/03 Sun

Good Morning, All. My reception at the gallery is today! Yippee!!! It's not such a big deal because it is a membership gallery and each artist gets a turn at being featured--usually two at the time--but I am a solo since the other artist wimped out--no time to produce work.

Regarding the article referenced on the Forrester book, I see lots of philosophical fodder in that article. I started to broach the topic myself, but wisely decided to choose another time. Interesting idea on what we do with the people if we can't employ them. I always think about the people who work jobs that "nobody wants to do". The people who shovel manure. Do they do it out of pride? Or for survival? Or to work their way up--is there a management level in such jobs?

We have increasingly created a society where work is not necessary for survival. Also. Work is not necessary for self esteem--in fact, the contrary is often true: work in certain jobs is more embarrassing than unemployment/welfare.

And. I said I wouldn't get into it today. Oh, well. That's it for now.

I hope to see some much better efforts from Flintersan and others regarding the necessity for workers in the modern world.

Take care.

dotti

[Edit]
GW . . . . bushed? -- Ag_Eagle, 03:07:08 08/24/03 Sun

Bush losing support for re-election, fast.

"...A growing number of Americans don't want to see US President George W Bush re-elected, and fear US troops are being drawn into a long, costly occupation of Iraq, according to a Newsweek poll..."
[SMH snip copied under intl. fair use]

[Edit]
"Wigginess".................to the Topster -- AuWag, 21:05:04 08/23/03 Sat

He's not just HEAVY...........he's my brother.

Getting a little profound there, wabbit!

Waggin along.........

[Edit]
mini -- awdragon, 18:09:05 08/23/03 Sat

Your welcome

May the link grow as a mustard seed
for all to think about.

no idea on quote, please post author because I grow old and lazy

Many as I agree with your wisdom

William Wallace - FREEDOM !!!

awdragon

[Edit]
Worms or Viruses -- Sojourner, 17:11:03 08/23/03 Sat


Everything all fixed now. I didn't have worms or viruses.

Thanx,
Sojo

[Edit]
AuWag - Meanderings On The Wigginess Of Work -- Harvey, 16:17:10 08/23/03 Sat

The wabbit has been 'under' a spell of woe, lately.

"Under" the umbrella of apathy, which surrounds a people lost in too many worms, viruses, and other synthesized brainular conceptions of how they should respond to abject terror, unleashed without any form of due process according to the sensibilities of worthwhile human endeavor - {aka. The idiocy of warmongering, and lack of public outcry.}

"Under" the propoganda of every puppet, progenitor, and pimp for the collective usurpers.

Matter of Point. After reading the link, provided ATR -
http://www.jobsletter.org.nz/jbl11310.htm

I'm compelled to address the author, with a 'Flintersonian' perspective.

Without zontal interpretations to draw conclusion from, I might have given the attached some credence, and demanded a solution, to THEIR problem.....Hau!
The irony of it all, now does not allude me!!

Thanks to the Horizontal Methodology, which is the spark towards wisdom's combustion - I'm burning THEIR edicts in the flame of my understanding. The more they attempt to elicit from my compassions, the more strength I embue from my separation.

Very analytical person, with some reasonable corollaries, whom feels work within the "old" context is necessary; however misguided into thinking that WE need anyone's care and guidance towards supporting the complex, for our daily survival.

Our friend Flinter is right, in his analysis of what is necessary for individual salvation.......it is just that - INDIVIDUAL awareness, sans any state, official, elected, governmental, corporate, or other vast vert system of beliefs, to find the requisite means of monetary or more important, spiritual profit.

Walking the Earth, pondering the truth of What-Is, planting hazelnuts and piss'n off of one's own porch..........ALL that is needed to find a wealth, rather than a 'work'. Ne?

End of WORK........I say YEAH VERILY!! The beginning of true freedom, towards WEALTH and VALUE of LIFE!!

"Under" the tree of woe; but sitting on top 'o MY world.

Patch'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
Questions -- Sojourner, 14:39:16 08/23/03 Sat


I cannot send out emails. I get the message that my User address is invalid. I have received emails today.

Do I have the wormy thing? I have received NO emails with attachments. Has someone given me the worm by stealing my address? If anyone gets an email from me----well, it is not me. Because if it is the worm - then it stole all my addresses in my addressbook.

[Edit]
Test -- Sojourner, 14:30:44 08/23/03 Sat


Test only.

[Edit]
Harv -- mini, 14:24:52 08/23/03 Sat

Good to see you out and nibblin' about, been wondering what the 'cwazzy wabbit' was up to.

You've already let us all know what's up {Doc?} when they come for U. Can wabbits weally foam at the mouth?

Regards to a fine matrix escapee and his accomplice {the mrs.}. Stay free.

the anti-Trail Guide

[Edit]
Mini - test question -- Harvey, 12:56:15 08/23/03 Sat

Answer: GW? Naw, too much synoptic comprehension. Perhaps Thomas Jefferson?

The quote echos the thoughts from the kite flier -

"Those whom are willing to sacrifice freedom for security, neither deserve, nor shall recieve either." Ben Franklin

By the way - howdy from the cabbage patch!

Nibbl'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]
awdragon -- mini, 12:43:53 08/23/03 Sat

What are you going to do when they come for you?

Excellent, thanks for the link. We have surely been "tread upon" and it looks like tank tracks straight ahead. One can always break out various forms of passive resistance, no? It's been a while since I chewed up a good spitwad. Am wondering about conjugal visitations........smile.

In the END........there's always the heavenly "exit strategy".

May I post your/these words on Forum 8 even though this is not a contest entry?

P.S. Who penned these famous words:

"The difference between major success and utter failure or mediocrity is often the willingness to step forward, take the chance, pay the price and, in effect, live life to its fullest extent. A life of safety, regret, and fear...........ends up being no life at all."

[Edit]
link for below - sorry old age - -- awdragon, 08:14:55 08/23/03 Sat

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/awdragon/1what.html

[Edit]
Weekend thinker - just my views -- awdragon, 08:11:56 08/23/03 Sat

What are you going to do when they come for you?

NOT FOR THE CONTEST

Executive Orders or a call to war against the people?

awdragon

[Edit]
qwerty -- All Seeing Eye, 06:39:37 08/23/03 Sat


The cabal never loses control of the gold market. They play a few games with the sheeple to maintain the chaos. But they know exactly what they are doing and why. Gold will break out when they have the breakout in their longterm plans. There are no historical economic rules or guidelines to what they do. It can be fun to try to surmise their methods, but we do not and will not know until it is happening or has happened.

ASE

[Edit]
bill murphy -- qwerty, 23:22:40 08/22/03 Fri

after watching gold for the last couple years, i sense something has friday. i think a number of economic forces ( of the cabals own making ) is bringing the gold suppression to a conclusion

this is not to say the cabal is losing since they're plans are to cause global economic failure in order to bring more centralized economic decision making on a global scale

they have to make an effort to manipulate in order to draw attention away from their plan for economic destruction. this gives people the idea that they are working like hell to stem the collapse. i think its more like ... they are working like hell to create more extreme pressure on the economies so when things do snap, it causes more economic damage


bill murphy comments


================
Why was a piddly $2 up day in gold so significant?

* Every single time over the last five years, and after a
good price runup/large spec build-up, the Gold Cartel
reversed gold and succeeded in turning gold down and
flushing out the specs. Today was the exception, made
more important because of the early surge in the dollar
and U.S. stock market. If there ever was a time for the
cabal forces to execute their gold market raid, it was today.
They FAILED miserably.

* Gold has now closed 10 days in a row over its pivotal
$323 Dollar Index Value of Gold price. As you know from
years of Midas commentary, the gold market is about the
physical market and the Gold Cartel. The work of GATA's
Mike Bolser shows $323 was the cabal's defense point for
gold in all currencies. The fact gold is moving away from
that level suggests the cabal is losing control of their
rigging operations. This gradual loss of control is the
reason gold is moving up, even as the dollar soars.
Most gold analysts seem confused. As oft-repeated
here, those who do not deal with the gold rigging issue
do not understand the gold market. In the end, most of
their analyses will prove inadequate.

* The work of Houston's Dan Norcini reveals that $335
DIVG is Custer's Last Stand for The Gold Cartel. Once
gold takes out that level, it will indicate they have
completely lost control of their manipulation. Yesterday
gold closed right below the $335 level. The Gold Cartel
needed to bury gold today to maintain confidence in the
manipulation and control of the gold price. They failed.

* The DIVG is based on the London PM Gold Fix. As
gold was trashed early in the day, the fix came in at
$358.75, or more than $4 lower than the previous day.
Technically, the DIVG fell to $331.95 due to the low fix.
However, if one uses the Comex close, it would have
about taken out $335 based on the higher dollar. If gold
takes out its downtrend line on Monday and the dollar
doesn't collapse, the DIVG gold price will blow through
its last resistance at $335. It will be nail in the coffin for
the bad guys. Gold should rocket!

* Gold's holding so steady the past week in the face of
enormous dollar strength is additional proof there IS a
"paradigm shift" in investor attitude toward gold. As the
U.S. position in Iraq deteriorates and U.S. financial markets
begin their inevitable swoon, this "paradigm shift" will
become more pronounced.

* Hannibal Lecter (Goldman Sachs) sold the close,
knocking gold down over $1 in the last minute. Same
pathetic maneuver they pull over and over. It tells us the
Gold Cartel has not capitulated yet. However, they must
be petrified of the abnormal strength in the gold price.
It is extraordinary and they know it. Any veteran trader
can see it.

* We still have that breakaway gap due with gold coming
in $3 higher and moving up from there, quickly taking out
$370. I thought we might see $370 by today. The cabal's
attack on Thursday delayed the event. My guess is gold
will take it out next week. Soon we should see the
long-awaited commercial signal failure. Comex open
interest rose another 1084 contracts on the selloff to
236,885. The big specs ADDED to their positions
yesterday and won the day today. The onus to keep
gold from exploding has shifted back to the Gold Cartel.
The longs proved their mettle on the Comex.

* Gold is right below its explosive breakaway point. It has
reached this level even though the stock market and dollar
have rallied for many months. What do you think the price
of gold is going to do when the way-overvalued stock
market is hit and the dollar dives?

[Edit]
China's banking . . . They're banks Jim, but not as we know it -- Netking, 18:54:10 08/22/03 Fri

Big trouble in little China:

"...A generation of China's bank managers, brought up on the notion that banks were bottomless automatic teller machines, are now discovering with dismay that loans are not gifts. China's banking system is insolvent to the tune of US$500 billion, and perhaps more, although there is no sign that the plug will be pulled, and indeed many of the excesses are continuing.

It would take a capital injection of $300 billion to $500 billion to put China's collective bank balance sheet in order. Meanwhile, as the clock ticks towards the next critical World Trade Organization (WTO) deadline - and full access to the renminbi (yuan) market for foreign banks by November 2006 - the risk is that China's banks will lose market share in the most lucrative market segments even as they strive to grow their capital.

While Islamic banking conforms to the strict Muslim teachings prohibiting interest, it would seem that communist Chinese banking could be defined as never having to repay loans. That is not surprising given the history of banking in China up to 1979. Assertion of property rights has hardly been the cornerstone of China's financial system over the past 50 years. The ability to recover debts by foreclosing and attaching assets is still in its infancy..."
[Snip copied under intl 'fair use']

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/EH20Ad03.html

[Edit]
Armitage: "Militants slip into Iraq via Saudi Arabia" -- Netking, 18:37:03 08/22/03 Fri

As we touched on earlier today on the forum . . . now Richard Armitage says: [Reuters 23.08.2003 12.00pm - Snip copied under Intl 'Fair Use']

"...The borders are quite porous, as you'd imagine, and the fact that we've captured a certain number of foreign fighters in Baghdad and around Iraq indicates that the ways that these people are getting into the country is from Iran and from Syria and from Saudi Arabia," Armitage said in an interview with Arabic-language television channel Al-Jazeera.

"I'm not in any position to assert that the governments of Iran or Syria or Saudi Arabia are in any way responsible. But, as a minimum, I can state that they're not -- these fighters -- are not being stopped at the borders, and this is something that causes us a great deal of concern..."

Iraq busters. . . who you gonna call?

[Edit]
Woody says: Buckeyes #1 -- RossL, 18:36:58 08/22/03 Fri

Sports Illustrated says: Buckeyes #1.

RossL says: Buckeyes #1

First game in 8 days. BCS championship game, about 18 weeks.


[Edit]
I expect something positive -- volavka, 15:47:36 08/22/03 Fri

to be announced or happen over the week end for metals.

[Edit]
any votes for the -- volavka, 15:41:25 08/22/03 Fri

buckeyes again?????????????

Like to see it.

Also a steelers fan; bus beached but we shall see.

[Edit]
Auspec contest -- volavka, 15:27:29 08/22/03 Fri

Your viewing this the wrong way. No, Hwangs' way or no way.

You must understand China.

Look @ the cots today and see how commercials added.
You are going to get a news event like the washington agreement and the commercials will be forced to cover.

This fuel on the fire with the oil and other crbs, see lumber, no wood left, so they'll burn the paper.

Look and seek; there it isn't is what they will say but gold knows.
No gold certificate (tickie) no shirt when it's over.
Gold grows, screw the glow (wgc)

[Edit]
*******Contest*********** What's Next? -- auspec, 14:34:42 08/22/03 Fri

Gold just WON'T stay down and is becoming more and more problematic for its govt {and private interest} handlers. Enthusiasm for shares and expectations for $400 POG are everywhere. What ever are they going to do? You know full well they're not going to just give up.........it's not in their nature, being such careful {central} planners?

Setting up the specs and them mowing them down is pure child's play and that buys them very little precious time these days. They simply gotta do better than that.

Have you put your thinking cap on to figure out their next MEGA move? mr v probably knows for sure but is afraid to let "them" know a way out of the box they're in? can they climb out once more? How're they going to turn greed into fear once more in the gold markets?

Maybe they're completely snookered as Murray has suggested? No way out. Hard to believe that with the greatest powers on the planet behind this charade that they have NO tricks left.

We have plenty of time for more entries, long, short or medium. Access the devious parts of your brain if you must.........think totalitarian. Remember though, "they" have to come up with something that won't cause a tidal wave of laughter.

Those coins are absolutely gorgeous and I haven't yet clipped them excessively {smile}. I am collecting the essays and will read them all when the deadline is here. They will be read without their authors' names so as to remove any particular influences and then later matched back up with the authors. That way I won't be apt to just give Endgame the victory automatically {heehee}.

Who else will participate?

[Edit]
Go Silver! -- Homer, 13:43:38 08/22/03 Fri



...and yes, numero six...the "bledisloe cup thingy" did go to a better place...where it belongs old chap.

[Edit]
number six -- volavka, 11:59:41 08/22/03 Fri

amep is spec @ this stage. Going over to Marble falls,tx this week end so I'll see what I can find out.

Horseshoe bay country club/golf area nice international set plus ole willie nelson hang out.

Gold up from yesterdays close, this was a 97% pattern, easy money.

[Edit]
Tis the Little Things in Life.......... -- auspec, 11:42:32 08/22/03 Fri

...........that make all the difference. A Homer Simpson or Three Stooges talking bottle opener for example.

[Edit]
gold is strong -- qwerty, 10:08:40 08/22/03 Fri

the dollar is pretty strong at 98.98

strength of gold is remarkable given this

if the dollar dropped a couple points, it could easily pop another $10

i think the dark forces are trying their best to keep gold off the radar

it feels like a gold volcano building

i think the cabal knows gold is going up but they are just delaying it the best they can so they can coordinate better

i think the cabal have positioned themselves so that they will benefit no matter what

there is a tendency to point to the asians and muslims as the big buyers but without transparency, one can't assume that.

given that they know the economic news way before anyone else, the cabal is in a very powerful position to benefit economically from a move up or down in just about anything especially gold.

They know the paper system will burn.
that will be their cue to bring in global currency. they will probably back it with some gold ... maybe 15% ... and then the gold backing will disappear like it did in the dollar. they will pull the same shit again but on a global level.

when that burns,
then a planetary currency system ...
then a galactic currency system ...
then a universe currency system
then all the universes currency system
then all the different dimensions of universe currency system
eventually, the entire ponzi scheme comes to an end
so we start over again and repeat the cycle ...

[Edit]
To fish or not to fish! -- $hifty, 09:19:02 08/22/03 Fri

We just need a suprise $10.00 pop this afternoon. If we dont get it Im going fishing.
:-)
$hifty

[Edit]
volavka re amep -- number six, 08:01:40 08/22/03 Fri

Hey volavka, do you know much about this AMEP mob? What is their special tech for stimulating wells? Resource spec-techs are my favourite, as long as someone can give me the jist of their competitive advantage. If it's just a bunch of otcbb-guys buying pasture/wells who say they're good at well-stimulation, then I know easier ways to lose my money. But if they have a lock on some rad new process they've proved-out, *well*, then I'm all ears.

Speaking of "wells", Homer Simpson was on a repeat the other night listening to his "Rappin Ronnie Reagan" tape. "You know he really did say 'well' a lot," says Homer. But then Manchester United bought a new Ronaldo from Portugal, named after "ronaldo" Reagan. I hope he can dribble as well as his namesake. And then Chelsea football club was bought out by one of the Russian/Jewish/mafia/oligarch/oil barron/robber barons. He went on a mad spending spree, and now the club is known as "Chelski." Sorry AB if you're out there, I really don't know much about the sniffbum form of football, I'm from the wrong town. Much more likely to see a Fenerbache or a Galatasaray shirt than a Wallabies shirt, in my suburb anyhow. But I'm sure that bledisloe cup thingy went to a better place. Go pies, go silver.

[Edit]
Will we end up higher today -- volavka, 06:14:15 08/22/03 Fri

than yesterdays close??????????????????????

97% answer above.

[Edit]
good start for pms' -- volavka, 06:07:30 08/22/03 Fri

down is good , we will end up.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 05:35:15 08/22/03 Fri

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Maybe nobody was terribly surprised by the clobbering
gold took in New York on Thursday, but some of gold's
partisans were understandably disappointed, as this
friend wrote tonight from Australia:

* * *

I've read all the great reads and listened to the
Internet radio programs you've recommended, and they
make a compelling case for an explosion in the gold
price. But something doesn't make sense...

According to GATA and its consultants:

1) Gold demand is explosive, and gold fundamentals are
perfect.

2) "While it may take a only a little physical to knock
the price down a few dollars, keeping it there requires
far more gold. ... Time and again, the bears hit gold
hard, only to be met with huge buy orders at the lower
prices."

Great! But gold dropped $5 today and didn't recover
immediately. If the fundamentals and demand are as good
as we are told, then gold should recover immediately --
not a day or even an hour after the drop.

I hear talk about weak longs and speculators being
flushed out, but surely the huge buying from Eastern
countries should outweigh these mere individuals. If
not, then this is a negative factor in gold
fundamentals, which shouldn't therefore be described
as perfect.

Regards, S.

* * *

Some observations in reply....

At LeMetropoleCafe.com, GATA Chairman Bill Murphy
observes that the gold price is recovering much faster
from its regular trashings by the cabal. This quicker
recovery in the price implies strong physical demand
overcoming the supply of paper gold. For the moment
let's avoid predictions and look only at the past:

1) In the last 52 weeks the gold price has gone from
$310 to $360, a 16 percent increase. You can find the
graph for this at the lower right of the Kitco home
page here:

http://www.kitco.com/

2) In the last 52 weeks the HUI gold share index has
gone from 103 to 183, a 77 percent increase. You can
find the graph for this at Yahoo here:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^hui&d=c

3) Even in a bull market for gold, the gold price may
decline on most days -- because gold seems to
accomplish most of its gains in a few leaps and then
to sag for many days until the next leap. So you're
either in the market on the day of the leap or you
miss the big gain. If you don't know when the next
leap is going to be but are confident that it is
coming, you position yourself and wait, if not
entirely patiently.

GATA is in the free-market advocacy business, not
the investment advice business, but perhaps this
much encouragement can be offered as a means of
helping to beat those who have been suppressing
the gold price.

There's more encouragement this week: trader
Rick Ackerman's commentary from Thursday,
citing this week's brilliant essay by Marshall
Auerback at PrudentBear.com, to which you were
alerted by another GATA dispatch:

http://www.marketwise.com/MW_WiseG/BBF_Archive/20030821.htm

Here's the relevant excerpt from Ackerman:

"DEC GOLD (361.80): The futures backed sharply away
from $370, which I still expect to act as a catapult
to at least $395.90 if touched. Is the Fed responsible
for the pullback? Perhaps, if an essay by Marshall
Auerback is on the mark. He has inferred that the
central bank may be targeting $350 as a way to keep
the public from getting jittery. If so, it behooves
us to load up on gold shares while bullion prices
remain suppressed."

We're winning on the gold price and we're winning on
the shares. It just may take a little longer before
we win EVERYTHING. Besides, we don't really WANT
everything -- just a free market in gold.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]
Iraq -- Netking, 05:27:43 08/22/03 Fri

The shooting gallery that is Iraq, not the romp GWB's mob thought it would be huh, then most who evaluated the situation before and after the "presentations" knew that was the case. The Iraqi situation continues to become more alarming by the day for the US policy makers. Indications suggest Chechen terrorists have been coming to Iraq to join the anti-American offensive for the last few months. Other fedback suggests Arab fighters entering Iraq from Syria are outnumbering indigenous Iraqi guerrillas fighting in parts of the region. Organized saboteurs are systematically disrupting oil, electricity and water supplies. There is it would seem efficiency and organization in the disruption.

Oil prices surged nearly 4% on Thursday as dealers fretted over a gasoline supply crunch in the US. NY crude futures jumped $US1.16 to $US32.20 a barrel. The United States faces it is said the lowest gasoline supplies since November less than two weeks ahead of the Labor Day holiday weekend.....things ahead are far from certain.

[Edit]
There it isn't -- volavka, 03:26:50 08/22/03 Fri

Land of the euro:

Follow the cycle and if euro land continues on its path of de-population it will not matter what form of sea shells they use because there will not be anyone there.

Da bulls
Da bears
Da de population of the euro zone.

Home alone.

[Edit]
Da earth moved -- Ag_Shake, 00:55:13 08/22/03 Fri

Yar, it did actually, in a day of seeming global weirdness....had an early morning quake measuring 7.1 [Geoscience Aust. said 7.5] on the Richter scale, fortunately at a 20km depth....went on for a time....these kinds make the whole earth ring....sorry if we send any Tsunamis your way.

[Edit]
my take on religion, more or less -- number six, 23:40:01 08/21/03 Thu

If Peter A can post internet funnies, and you other guys can discuss religion, I thought I might do both at once. Reputedly a true story.


ARKANSAS CITY (EAP) -- A Little Rock woman was killed yesterday after leaping through her moving car's sun roof during an incident best described as "a mistaken rapture" by dozens of eye witnesses. Thirteen other people were injured after a twenty-car pile up resulted from people trying to avoid hitting the woman who was apparently convinced that the rapture was occurring when she saw twelve people floating up into the air, and then passed a man on the side of the road who she claimed was Jesus.

"She started screaming "He's back, He's back" and climbed right out of the sunroof and jumped off the roof of the car," said Everett Williams, husband of 28-year-old Georgann Williams who was pronounced dead at the scene. "I was slowing down but she wouldn't wait till I stopped," Williams said. "She thought the rapture was happening and was convinced that Jesus was gonna lift her up into the sky," he went on to say.

"This is the strangest thing I've seen since I've been on the force," said Paul Madison, first officer on the scene. Madison questioned the man who looked like Jesus and discovered that he was dressed up as Jesus and was on his way to a toga costume party when the tarp covering the bed of his pickup truck came loose and released twelve inflatable sex dolls filled with helium which floated up into the air.

Ernie Jenkins, 32, of Fort Smith, who's been told by several of his friends that he looks like Jesus, pulled over and lifted his arms into the air in frustration, and said, "Come back here," just as the Williams' car passed him, and Mrs. Williams was sure that it was Jesus lifting people up into the sky as they passed by him, according to her husband, who says his wife loved Jesus more than anything else.

When asked for comments about the twelve sex dolls, Jenkins replied "This is all just too weird for me. I never expected anything like this to happen."

[Edit]
a note from Kurt Richebacher (pronounced "Richbugger") -- number six, 22:56:12 08/21/03 Thu

Earnings deception takes on new forms...


"If the poor profit performance needs any further proof, it
is in the unfaltering 'earnings-management game.' Despite
the condemnation of past accounting tricks, the familiar
tricks to make profit numbers look better than they are
have remained in rampant use. A common ploy is to report
fictive 'pro forma' profits; another is to measure them
against deliberately reduced 'expected' profit. For
example: the reported profits of Apple Computer topped
expected profits by a whopping 67%. In actual fact, they
had fallen 41%."

Wall Street are still sneaky and thoroughly untrustworthy, but the word still hasn't got out, imho. Afterall, foreigners still buy Wall St's promises - bonds, stock etc.

[Edit]
BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE! -- PeterA, 22:45:26 08/21/03 Thu

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted
thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by
accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not
end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage.
Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and
possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance.
For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

Dihydrogen monoxide:

is also known as hydroxl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
contributes to the "greenhouse effect."
may cause severe burns.
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile
brakes.
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Contamination is reaching epidemic proportions!

Quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream,
lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the
contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. DHMO has caused millions
of dollars of property damage in the midwest, and recently California.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

as an industrial solvent and coolant.
in nuclear power plants.
in the production of styrofoam.
as a fire retardant.
in many forms of cruel animal research.
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains
contaminated by this chemical.
as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done
to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is
extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or
use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health
of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are
conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices
to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military
research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated
underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.

[Edit]
GATA -- gata, 20:40:49 08/21/03 Thu

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

MineWeb's Tim Wood has some great reporting this
morning about how Goldman Sachs tried to destroy
Newmont's Yandal mine in Australia but was
prevented by Newmont's reoganization scheme,
which was nevertheless very generous to creditors,
including Goldman Sachs itself. And now, MineWeb
says, Newmont seems about to prevail in the
Australian reorganization proceedings. Perhaps the
lesson is that the New York bullion banks CAN be
beaten after all.

You can find the MineWeb story here:

http://www.mips1.net/mgan.nsf/UNID/TWOD-5QMEAV?OpenDocument

Or use this abbreviated link:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/243

Or just go to the MineWeb home page, where the
story is at the top right at this hour:

http://www.mineweb.com/

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]
VIRUS ALERT... Continues Rampant... -- ThaiGold, 20:33:30 08/21/03 Thu

@ALL
@beesting

Today (so far) myself, have received 178 emails from
the automated VIRUS now known as "SoBig.f" and am still
getting "undeliverable" messages indicating that the VIRUS
has obtained my own email address from someone's infected
address book; and is using my email address as a fake
"from" or "reply-to" or "sender".

The link beesting posted mentions to look out for any of these:
[snip]
Subject, any from the list:

Re: Thank you!
Thank you!
Your details
Re: Details
Re: Re: My details
Re: Approved
Re: Your application
Re: Wicked screensaver
Re: That movie

Body, it chooses one from the two following lines:

See the attached file for details
Please see the attached file for details.

Attachment names can be any from:

your_document.pif
document_all.pif
thank_you.pif
your_details.pif
details.pif
document_9446.pif
application.pif
wicked_scr.scr
movie0045.pif
[unsnip]

It's a Windows VIRUS, and cannot possibly have infected
my system. I use IBM OS/2 Warp system, not MS/Windows.

Once again, be aware that "ThaiGold" has sent *NO* email to anyone,
without advance notification to the recipient posted here.
So if you receive some, DELETE it and any VIRUS attachments contained.

...Tai

[Edit]
Sobig.F.....More Virus Alert! -- beesting, 20:01:06 08/21/03 Thu

Have recieved thru e-mail the "Sobig.F" virus 3 times in the last 2 days and each time I was able to identify and delete it both from the normal delete section of e-mails and again from the delete files in the delete section of saved e-mails, of my Windows 95.
I was pre-warned by reading all of this about the sobig.f virus, please take the time to read it:

http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/sobig_f.shtml

The last infected e-mail I recieved came in like this, without the spacing:

from: "GATA Comm @ aol. com"

RE: Your application

And then a few(probably infected) URL's.

If you recieve anything that looks like this delete it right away.

I have been recieving e-mail from GATA for a long time BUT never from this address or with this type of message.

The sobig.f virus is supposed to automatically stop spreading by SEPT. 10TH, 2003.........(And Then What Happens Is Anybodys Guess On The Infamous Sept. 11th)

............beesting.......Preparing To FIGHT Back!!!!!!

[Edit]
Trend line -- volavka, 11:25:15 08/21/03 Thu

todays sell off in dec gold, when sinclair and others prewarn mkt, and commercials read all this junk on net, well the trend line was drawn before start of day.
dec comex from 8-1 low---- - - -- to 8-19 low ,set todays low @ 359.

[Edit]
dollar up -- qwerty, 11:03:05 08/21/03 Thu

forces are really pushing the dollar up ... 98.54

the dollar going to 92 is good for a minimum of 20-30 points up for gold

also the higher the dollar goes, the higher the price gold is in other currencies

it also provides an enormous amount of momentum up when dollar does turn

the cabal is caught between the ground and a big rock

[Edit]
volavka -- qwerty, 10:51:20 08/21/03 Thu

>What you are seeing this moment in Alabama is a battle to take the law
out from under the true God of the Hebrews and place under the gods that

what you are seeing is a distraction to focus people's minds on TRIVIAL matters and away from the torching of the rest of the constitution and bill of rights

just like so many gun owners become fixated on just one thing, so do many other people

the nwo order strategy is to slice awayone bit at a time until the groups are pretty isolated and without any legal protection

notice the controlled mass media plays it up

they even allow some muffled playing up of protest against the iraq war


the thing to look at closely is the people and groups leading it

have these people and groups been in the forefront of opposing the patriot act

if not, they either have their heads stuck up their asses or their fake

i notice a lot of fake anti-war people and groups protested against the iraq war ... nader, jackson etc

if politicians especially ones who supported the patriot act are involved, it is another tip off

one observatiobn i will make on most of the higher echelon so called spiritual leaders in the US ... they have betrayed their own religions ... their silence on so many things is deafening ... the religious groups that are most overt and vocal are aligning behind the nwo

it is ironic that the "anti-god" people control most of the "god business"

they have so many people looking forward to armegeddon ... it's really sick

just like there needs to be a massive clean up in washington and the nation of politicans at all the levels, the same holds true of the religious arena

how do stupid sheep clean it up ...

[Edit]
Commandments -- Sojourner, 10:38:49 08/21/03 Thu


Aren't commandments given in Leviticus 25 also?
Is the Year of the Jubilee to be observed along with the other commandments? Leviticus 26 details the punishment for not obeying - including cannibalism (verses 29 and 38). If these were meant to apply to Moses and his followers only, then would the other commandments apply only to them?

I am not disagreeing with the Ten Commandments, I just want to know what I am to follow, so that my confusion will not interfere with my understanding.

TIA,
Sojo

[Edit]
alabama -- volavka, 09:40:05 08/21/03 Thu

not the band:

What you are seeing this moment in Alabama is a battle to take the law
out from under the true God of the Hebrews and place under the gods that
men would be. God is asking this country how seriously do they really
want Him in their lives. This is not about "freedom of worship." That
is wholly a different issue. The legal system must take the stand
concerning the source of its law, what gives it its authority. If God is
not its source, then men are --and only those men that can force others
obey them. Law then devolves to being the "right of the stronger." This
Law rules the animal kingdom. Is this the view that We the People are to
have about ourselves, that we are no better than animals? These people
that want the Judge to remove the commandments are proponents for
International Government. They are trying to move this country under its
authority. That government does not nor ever will recognize the God of
the Hebrews.
If we reject Him, there is another god waiting in the wings to
come on stage, the moon-god of the Mohammedans, Allah. Right now it is
trying to conquer the world to have it forcibly worship it. Its true
believers are fighting to destroy America. They have to. Most of the
Mohammedan population is lackadaisical in the practice of their faith.
Then there is that small group of true believers that will fight to
protect their moon-god worship. They see what the West is trying to do.
If the West can impose "democracy" on the Mohammedans, the true believers
will be outnumbered and relegated to the closet by the lackadaisical.
The West's imposition of "democracy" would greatly weaken the true
practice of the Mohammedan faith. This is the West's plan and the true
believers know it. The web itself is a great threat to their faith. They
cannot keep it out and all it brings in. The Mohammedans will be exposed
to the Bible and Christian truths that they have been able to suppress.
If their people ever think about their faith, their faith will be
destroyed. Their doors have been forced open. They only way to stop
this influx is to destroy the West. And now we have this battle going on
in Alabama. This is just another front in this war being waged by the
godless international community.

[Edit]
dec gold -- volavka, 09:33:07 08/21/03 Thu

Buying in 359 and below.
Govern yourself.

[Edit]
amep -- volavka, 08:53:59 08/21/03 Thu

Those interested in spec tech for oil:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/news/articles.asp?guid={02A8C471-90D3-4657-BD12-089982858039}&newsid=806601667&orig=charting&time=8&symb=AMEP&sid=1159774&source=htx\http2_mw

Some old enough here may remember in the 70s' a co. called sullair which introduced a new tech system of down hole steam induction to recover heavy crude. .10 to over 8.00.

[Edit]
Bush @ the ranch -- volavka, 07:55:52 08/21/03 Thu

Bush needs to lightin up.
Seems the boy was out walkin the ranch when one of the help came up and asked him,

A que hora es?

Bush comes back, ya I'll kick your ass too, come on, bring um on.

[Edit]
platinum -- volavka, 05:40:40 08/21/03 Thu

over 700.00 headed for 1000.00 ++++++
Russia.

[Edit]
Good Morning, All -- dotti, 05:39:02 08/21/03 Thu

Good Morning, All.

Paraphrased From Prudent Bear: real Treasury interest rates are low, but aggregate nominal corporate interest charges are quite high.

Doesn't this create a bonanza for financials--particularly if they are "tipped off" prior to the Fed's activities? Doesn't it allow them to buy (borrow money) low and sell (lend money out) high?

dotti

[Edit]
sleeper hold -- volavka, 05:34:49 08/21/03 Thu

Power bomb by capt. insaneoooooooooooo.

oil to 100.00

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030820-081254-4563r.htm

[Edit]
GATA -- gata {mini}, 03:40:00 08/21/03 Thu

8:55p ET Wednesday, August 20, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Looks like we're on the verge of a breakout for gold
or one more desperate smashing by the Exchange
Stabilization Fund, but even if it's the latter, such
smashings are having only a fraction of the duration
they used to have as the physical gold market slowly
pushes the paper price higher.

In the meantime, there is so much of urgent interest
about gold to be had via the Internet, and here's a
small sampling from the last 24 hours. (You're not
REALLY serious about gold unless you check every day
most of the Internet sites cited on the master list
below.)

GATA Chairman Bill Murphy is interviewed by Al
Korelin and Mike Hartfield for the August 23 edition
of the Korelin Hartfield Report:

http://www.kuik.com/KH/KH.html

Murphy's commentary tonight at LeMetropoleCafe is
the most comprehensive you're likely to get about
this week's action in the gold market. If you're not a
subscriber, you can read it for free by taking a free
trial subscription:

http://www.LeMetropoleCafe.com

GATA consultant James Turk, editor of the Freemarket
Gold and Money Report and proprietor of GoldMoney,
writes tonight that the gold shares are signalling a
breakout for the gold price, and he has a chart to
support his argument. You can find Turk's analysis
at the left side of the GoldMoney home page under
"Founder's Commentary":

http://goldmoney.com/en/index.php

Turk was interviewed the other day by Steve Carr's
"Honest Money" radio program on the Tiger Financial
Network. You can listen to the interview here:

http://www.tfnn.com/archived_032003_hm.php

Click on the link for the August 6 show. The
interview with Turk begins about 5 minutes and 20
seconds into the program.

At CBSMarketWatch, Thom Calandra asks whether the
gold rally is real, and gets encouraging answers:

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B8015C25C%2DD550%
2D4E8A%2DA3DA%2DF6FC2C357960%7D&siteid=mktw

Here's an abbreviated link for Calandra's latest:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/242

Or just go to the CBSMarketWatch home page,
where, at this hour, Calandra's commentary is
listed toward the bottom in the commentary
section under "Stockwatch."

Last but not least, Jim Sinclair, CEO of Tan Range
Exploration and free teacher to a new generation of
gold traders, has posted two essential commentaries
at his Internet site today:

http://www.jsmineset.com/s/Home.asp

Sinclair's second commentary, "The Order of the
Golden Comets," has some good laughs as he brings
technical analysis to what Murphy has been
predicting, a "commercial signal failure" in the
gold market.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]
Big deal -- volavka, 03:30:09 08/21/03 Thu

any sell in bullion is opportunity for reentry.
Houston we have a problem.
Monkies on the moon see no evil hear no evil speak no evil.


And u thought they evolved from us. Ha ha ha.

Be patient.
super longer term spec, magr

[Edit]
Stools -- Goldus, 23:15:15 08/20/03 Wed

TOOLS FOR FOOLS
HOW ABOUT USING THEM ON THE 9-11 REPORT?
By: Ted Lang
Say what?! Am I hearing this right? Attorney General John Ashcroft is stumpin' for the "Patriot Act?" When's the last time that ever happened? In fact, tell me the first time it did! Can you believe it?!
Certainly you have read or heard about Ashcroft proclaiming the suspension of the United States Constitution and our Bill of Rights via the "Patriot Act" as being a "tool." This guy was a senator? This guy's a lawyer? This guy's the Attorney General of the United States?

Hey, bring back Reno! All she did was murder 81 Americans, 26 of whom were children, kidnap a little kid for the communists after his mother gave her life to get him to freedom, and cover for Bill Clinton as he enriched himself selling weapons of mash distraction to the Chinese! At least she hasn't used the Constitution for bathroom tissue!
Can you believe this guy running around the country trying to sell this horse's ass law the dim bulbs in Congress didn't even read! Hey, beam me up Scotty! I want to be with one of the only two honest guys in the whole damn Congress, Jim Traficant!
Now check it out sons and daughters of this here former demo-crazy: Arab guys wearin' sheets and towels and leading camels with sand boxes strapped to their backs walk right through airport security in every damn airport in these here socialized states! And they get M.C. Hammered right through the gate. Cain't touch 'em screeners! No magic wand treatment! No electric vibrators and dildos! Nada!
After all, we gotta be tolerant. We gotta worship diversity! We gotta let Mid Eastern dudes that need a bath and a shave more than their camels get on any damn plane they want! What's that Mustafa? Oh, a non-working full size toy model of a howitzer in the crate you're takin' as a carry-on? No problemo! Lemme' git some red caps to give ya a hand! Whattya' got Hakim? A giant metallic capsule-shaped device that's drivin' the Geiger wacko that don't fit through the electronic baggage conveyor? Hey Jack, open the gate for mah main man here and let him go round, will ya?! Ain't no big deal!
But, to be fair, let's make that nursin' mamma drink her own breast milk to make sure it ain't some explosive stuff or sumpin'! And make the gimp take off her prosthesis! Who does she think she's foolin'? What?! Who the hell is Joe Foss?! Huh? A Congressional Medal of Honor? Ain't that thing metal? Ain't it got a pin in it or some such thing? Confiscate it! How'd a stupid old geezer like him win a Congressional?
Where we have obvious potential problems, we're not supposed to profile, because it's not nice for fools to trust Mother Nature. But while the Joneses, the Smiths, and the Millers are all at work in order to turn half their pay over to the District of Criminals, and their kids are in the commie day training schools for the advancement of socialist obedience, Ashcroft and his trashcraft FBI spooks go through your personal stuff you're not even takin' to any of his stinkin' airports, and is dildoing your closets, your books, your computer, your silverware, and both your clean and dirty laundry, lookin' to figure a way to put you in jail without either a lawyer or a trial!
Ain't no doubt, protectin' America via the Declaration of "In" Dependence on government, the "Con"situation and the Bill of Rites is a very tricky business, and requires not only a black bag full of the proper tools, but the totalitarian support from all the king's horses and all the king's asses, as well as the full understanding and appreciation of all of America's useful idiots and its ship of fools.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact." http://www.etherzone.com/2003/lang082003.shtml

[Edit]
Bad to the bone -- goldus, 22:45:26 08/20/03 Wed

BLACKOUTS
HOW CORRUPT IS WASHINGTON?
By: Ed Henry
Remember that the Bush administration has refused to release details of the energy commission meetings held by Vice President Dick Cheney including who was in attendance and despite court orders after formal litigation by its own Office of Management and Budgets, the OMB.
Now, after a massive loss of electricity in the Northeast corridor and Canada, there is at least one theory that this was the result of deregulation of the power industry that started way back in the administration of daddy Bush and involves, of all companies, the infamous Enron Corporation and the still unpunished Kenneth Lay.

You can read all about this in an article titled "Power Outage Traced To Dim Bulb In White House" written by Greg Palast, a former investigator of corporate racketeering.
Sherman H. Skolnick goes beyond this and proposes the idea that the blackout was caused by our government to block the wire transfer of $98 billion to the Saudi Royal Family currently in disfavor with Washington and about to pull more than ten times that amount from American banks. This first wire transfer was scheduled to begin on the afternoon of Thursday, August fourteenth.
You can read about this in an article titled "More on Saudi Black-Out Money" by Skolnick and Lenny Bloom, 8/17/2003, where they claim the money transfers were "a consequence of the bitter divorce between the Bush Crime Family/Carlyle Group and their now disgruntled business partners, the Saudi Royal Family."
It's difficult to imagine the blackouts as anything more than a temporary delaying action with these wire transfers, but the inference that American banks are over extended with hedge bets in derivatives and the loss of anything near a trillion dollars would hurt them deeply brings us to another economic reality.
For the last two months, the bond market has been dramatically declining with a resultant rise in interest rates despite the fact that Greenspeak's Federal Reserve has lowered its prime lending rate to a mere one percent.
Silent on the matter for months, the major media is finally starting to admit that there's something wrong here. Wanting to present a happy face on the economy, they are hesitant or unable to recognize that many experts are pegging this decline on the fact that major mortgage houses like Fannie Mae and others are over extended in derivatives to the tune of about $4.5 trillion. Derivatives are like "puts" and they are obligations.
You can read about this in articles like Reuters "Mortgage Havoc Wreaks 100 Year Storm on Bond Markets" of August 1, 2003.
Not only are we likely to see a puncture in the housing market bubble, but the federal government's ability to borrow to fill in for huge planned deficits may be the major disaster. If investors at home and abroad, countries like China who loans us about $300 billion a year, begin to feel that their money isn't safe in U.S. Treasury securities and begin seeking alternative investments—then our borrowholic government is in deep doo-doo.
Raising annual interest rates on Treasuries has always worked in the past to entice investors, but may not work as well this time. With a sour economy and little reason to believe it's going to improve shortly, nations, organizations, and individuals who always believed that treasuries were "the safest investment in the world" may finally realize that these securities depend on the American taxpayer's ability to back and pay them off at maturity.
No matter how concerned the American public may or may not be with these national financial problems, the loss of electricity is essential to everyone. We've grown so accustomed to this power in our daily lives that it's a major problem with severe economic impact if anything happens to it for even a short time.
President Bush talks about bringing our power grids up to par just as he talks about building Iraq's and Afghanistan's infrastructure at our expense, but it's difficult to see how he's going to do this with a deregulated industry, an industry that he and his father helped deregulate and with which he's in partnership.
Meanwhile, we are living with an antiquated system of wood poles that deliver to the end user and haven't changed since the days when Western Union replaced the Pony Express. And the high tension towers connecting grids haven't changed much since the Fifties. If you think that the independent power companies are going to spend profits on upgrading the system, bury and bundle cables underground, you might as well hedge your bet with some derivatives on the Brooklyn Bridge.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
I doubt the part Skolnick describes. Wouldn't the Saudi's have tried again by now? Aren't they afraid of USA anyway?

[Edit]
@Thai -- goldus, 22:31:59 08/20/03 Wed

Thanks for the warning. I'm staying away from suspect software, emails and other unsavory lifeforms.
I'm sick of how those programmers and designers sloppily collect their ill-gotten gains, knowing what collateral damage can ensue. Almost like power blackouts, cascading derivative defaults or paralyzing political sound bites with solutions to any problem a prostitute politician could catch, contract or conjure up.
And those attachments. They're a very sticky wicket(a messy situation) like being stuck with addictions to emails.
Cheers!!!

[Edit]
ThaiGold -- Global Watch, 21:25:04 08/20/03 Wed

Thai, can we be sure that was you in the previous post.

[Edit]
VIRUS ALERT.!. -- ThaiGold, 21:10:43 08/20/03 Wed

There is an automated email VIRUS going around, in great
quantity. I've received over 50 within an hour.

It's using email address found in someone's addressbook,
and reuses the same addresses to create faked "FROM" or REPLY-To addresses.

So, they MAY LOOK LIKE EMAIL FROM SOMEONE YOU KNOW or OR
SOMEONE YOU CORRESPOND WITH.

What's worse, I'm also receiving "Undeliverable mail" notices
showing that -in some cases- MY EMAIL ADDRESS was used
as a faked SENDER of the viral mail.

You may be getting similar swarms of emails.

DO NOT CLICK nor OPEN any of the .PIF or .SCR ATTACHMENTS.!.
DELETE them instead.

ThaiGold never sends unsolicited email to anyone, without
(usually) letting them know to expect mail, posted in the Forum.

ThaiGold NEVER sends ATTACHMENTS, unless you are notified
beforehand, to expect an attachment, in a subsequent email.

...Tai

[Edit]
Clive Digs Gold and Disses the $ -- auspec, 16:50:31 08/20/03 Wed

http://www.clivemaund.com/article.php?art_id=55

Calling for + $120 in gold in the next few months. Using the last three years to show the Gold/Dollar inverse relationship.

GC's...................And what're you planning to do about THAT??

[Edit]
B-sting -- auspec, 16:32:58 08/20/03 Wed

Thanks!

[Edit]
@ Auspec.....James Turk. -- beesting, 16:23:33 08/20/03 Wed

No time to comment right now, hope this is what you're looking for:
(Snip)

http://goldmoney.com/en/commentary.php#current

A 'head & shoulders' pattern is usually a reliable indicator of important changes in market direction. This pattern
suggests that the gold mining stocks are about to break out of an important base. Normal technical analysis
establishes 140 as an upside target, which I expect to be reached in 2004. Thus, I am expecting approximately 55%
appreciation in the XAU Index as its first move out of this base. If the relative valuation of the gold mining stocks
compared to gold itself is any guide, a 55% move in the stocks should equate to about a 40% move in gold, which
compared to today's Comex closing spot price of $365.60 ($11.75 per goldgram) establishes a gold price target of
$511.84 ($16.46/gg), a rate of exchange between gold and the dollar not seen since 1987.

Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
(Unsnip)

[Edit]
James Turk -- auspec, 15:46:56 08/20/03 Wed

Looking for a link to today's article by Turk in regards to a mining share breakout.

[Edit]
Oil -- Netking, 15:05:15 08/20/03 Wed

Oil prices have been steading as traders pondered the impact of sabotage to a key Iraqi pipeline and unrest in Nigeria's main oil city. Worthy of note folks is the fact under a non-compulsory price mechanism, OPEC members can increase production if the price of a "basket" of seven crudes selected by the cartel stays above $28 for 20 days, which it has now done for nearly a fortnight....but further sabotage would make the POO very vulnerable to "strengthening" of price.....as they say, watch this space.

http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.asp

[Edit]
focus on crb -- volavka, 11:15:43 08/20/03 Wed

live cattle
cotton
corn
beans
palladium

Gold knows where her children are going .

[Edit]
rc -- qwerty, 10:42:31 08/20/03 Wed

will reply to your post later

still too busy

[Edit]
starting to show -- volavka, 07:51:01 08/20/03 Wed

some strength now. let her rip...

[Edit]
UK Gummint V's Press -- Netking, 03:44:49 08/20/03 Wed

Guardian-ICM survey finds 52 per cent of those polled said they trusted neither the U.K. government nor the BBC.

http://afr.com/articles/2003/08/19/1061261154225.html

yep, the truth . . . is out there.

[Edit]
Changing the world, through acts of kindness? -- Netking, 23:57:20 08/19/03 Tue

...the biggest oak trees can grow from the smallest acorns.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/19/1061261157765.html

[Edit]
12 Days to End of Contest: August 31 -- Rex, 23:48:41 08/19/03 Tue

I mis-read my calandar in a previous announcement about
the current Contest.

You have 12 days remaining to post your entries..

The Contest ends at midnight (ER time) on August 31, 2003
and Auspec will announce the winners and mail the
1 troy oz .999 Silver Round prizes shortly after that.

So there's still plenty of time to excercise your keyboards.

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 23:41:07 08/19/03 Tue











US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]










LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
Sojo -- Netking, 22:00:35 08/19/03 Tue

Yo Sojo, The 'All Ords' index is sitting currently at 3,174.6 still +9.6 for the day after being much higher earlier on......the markets are a little spooked down yonder with recent news....one significant blue chip company books a half year loss of $2.159 billion and meanwhile ANOTHER large one in the banking sector reported a 24 per cent fall in annual net profit today. Then there was the other geopolitical news:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/20/1061261161626.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/20/1061261169919.html

[Edit]
Contest entry- keep it even at best, closed markets -- Questioner, 21:48:03 08/19/03 Tue

The next attack or event on gold will ultimately be tied to terrorism. Multi-pronged attack on US. It will include several airports and leadership. Blamed on evil terror alliance forces and funded by gold. Of course it will be golds fault and we will have gold control advocates. Events of such magnitude that markets will be closed and closing of the gold market for some time to prevent a major rise. A picture will be painted of gold+terrorist=evil people. The best they can muster will be to cap the price. The point of know return has been reached and the pattern is set. It is going to get wild and we will be facing martial law to protect our best interests. Official government market with capped price and the emergence of the black market as the US descends into 3rd world status.

[Edit]
Netking -- Sojourner, 21:11:21 08/19/03 Tue


Is the market back up yet? Any explanation?

Sojo

[Edit]
XAU broke HIGH -- qwerty, 13:47:04 08/19/03 Tue


what's that sound people make ...

uh, oh yeah ... yeeee haaaawww

[Edit]
A New Gold Play For Japanese Investors. -- beesting, 12:05:36 08/19/03 Tue

This looks like the Sumitomo Mining Company has borrowed the game plan of the behind the scenes "Gold Suppression Cartel", often referred to by GATA and Jim Sinclair, and widely accepted on the Gold chat sites.

A couple of questions:
1. Would the return on investment be higher than the yearly price rise on goods & services?

2. Would Sumitomos leasing actions suppress the POG in Japan?

The beesting conclusion:
Gold in Japan would be counted TWICE under this plan thereby giving the illusion that there is twice as much Gold as there actually is in Japan.

Comments?
(Snips)
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/030819/15/3dhqy.html

The system is simple. Japanese investors turn over to the "Junkin Plus" program gold that
they have purchased from Sumitomo Metal Mining. Any gold bars laying around the
house can also be added to their account. Sumitomo Metal Mining will assess the value
of this gold free of charge.

Sumitomo Metal Mining then takes over the ownership rights to this gold, while the
investor retains the right to demand the return of their gold at any time.

The rate for this consignment payment is different for each subscription period and has
been as high as 1% and as low as 0.5% of the initial value of the consigned gold.

This may not seem like much, but it is much more than Japanese banks offer for their
savings accounts. It is also bigger than the annual dividend yields currently being offered
by many Japanese blue chips.

There are, however, a few risks. As Sumitomo Metal Mining is sitting on the ownership
rights to the underlining gold, there is no guarantee that all of the gold could be returned in
the event that the company goes bust.

However, this seems very unlikely as Sumitomo Metal Mining is one of Japan's
most time-honored companies. In fact, the company's roots date back to 1590
when the Sumitomo family first began smelting copper in Kyoto.
(Unsnip)
Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.htm

[Edit]
cypt -- volavka, 11:54:49 08/19/03 Tue

2nd time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3159521.stm

[Edit]
372/375 dec close -- volavka, 09:47:56 08/19/03 Tue

watch the run and volume if it will make it.

[Edit]
small cap oil sector -- volavka, 07:27:34 08/19/03 Tue

watch them roll.
ex. amep

[Edit]
silver squeeze -- volavka, 06:02:47 08/19/03 Tue

gonna pop.

[Edit]
I'm rubber and you're glue -- volavka, 03:32:44 08/19/03 Tue

Glued to your puter.
How about no net.

Well 1st u must have the electric. Past that.
How about a big electromagnetic pluse to fry the rest of the brain dead puppets.

No net.
Zombies are we.
Jump start the economy. Got metals.
That's the way the world ends not with a bang but a whimper.

[Edit]
um -- number six, 22:11:24 08/18/03 Mon



[Edit]
@qwerty - speculations -- rc, 19:35:57 08/18/03 Mon

american, russia and china are run by sophisticated criminal mafia oligarchies ...

American and Russain oligarchies were one and the same until the break-up of the URSS. While they are still close, the Russian oligarchy is losing ground to secret service technocrats who may or may not be part of the oligarchy. The Chinese oligarchy is completely different. No relation with the two others. It has an agenda of its own.

america and russia are very tight in terms of relationship
if they had any war between them, it would need approval by both elite oligarchies. i don't even see a remote possibility of war without this.

Up to point. We know very little about their relations. We know what the western media tell us but we have very little information about how the Russians see the situation. I feel that bullying the Russians is not a good idea. Bush is pushing the enveloppe too far. Beside all boils down to economics. Oligarchies have to keep their people quiet. They cannot do it in time of depression. And they cannot have it both way. It is impossible to keep the Russains and the Americans happy at the same time. It will always be at the expenses of the other. So at some point in time something has to give. When you hear Putin saying that given the US behaviour they will have to rearm or when the same guarantee North Korea sovereignty, one starts to ponder.

i think even somewhat same with china but they are a little more mysterious

China knows that as of now, it cannot beat the US on its ground. This is why they are working full time to make up for the deficiencies. Once they reach an even level then all bets are off.

given that these people think on such long term persiods, i think they have had some talks about creating another war 10 to 20 years from now the difficulty with making a real objective assessment of the situation is that we lack objective information as to what REAL conflict happens at their level.

Right indeed. No question about that.

I think most any conflict we hear or see is manufactured conflict. The Pentagon disinformation people seem to be in charge of this area media wise. It's not just trying to figure out the real vs the manufactured conflict but there is also a level which complicated matters. We are
talking about people's PERCEPTION. At the highest levels it can be manufactured conflict. At lower compartmentalized level, it can be real. The cold war was like that.
If your on a battle field with the Chinese and you each shoot a bullet and it goes whistling past each others head, the conflict is real at your level.

I think that manufactured conflict can go only on a low level such as Afghanistan or Irak or Vietnam. Once you oppose say European or Russians economies against the US's than you reach a fight to the death. This is bound to happen sometimes in the future.

Since the oligarchies enclose people in a fictitious world, so much of our perceptions are based on false data and this presents a very difficult problem in terms of analysis of a situation

This is how they convince 19 years old to go to fight for the so-called defence of the homeland when in fact they are sent to the slaughter for the benefit of the world corporations.

We deal with COVERT alliances or maybe COVERT conflict ... from my experience, the former are the most prevalent problem ... they really like the public to perceive conflict since it creates fear and more control for them

Yes. This is exactly what they are doing with these Afghan and Iraki's conflicts. But note that neither the Russians nor the Chineses are following suit.

If we only had a better sources of info that would give us a better understanding and insight of how the oligarchies relate to each other and a yearly updated status then we could really make a lot of head way into interpreting things
the problem with dividing conflicts based upon border is that there may be more than a few oligarchies in china in an alliance with a few oligarchies in the US. So who is allying with who and who is not. I really don't know so I have to take my best educated guess

Yes. We have to try to read between the lines. Not easy but experience help. I doubt very much that Chinese oligarchies can go along with US ones for very long. They have their own agenda which differs considerably.

we just don't know where the agreements and disagreements lie. even the ones in alliances may have their disagreements with each other. So there can be complexity that we may not even fathom and we may be dealing with dynamic situations in areas we can't even imagine

Agree.

the public like simplicity. they like black and white. good and bad. anything that goes beyond that means that people need to use their energy and think

This is why the public is so easy to fool.

who really rules on a high level ... even i don't know that for sure although we do make some guesses since they keep us in the dark and control the media, we just do our best in interpreting the outward signs and scraps of info we can dig up to put together the puzzle we have to deal with a lot of deception

Agree again. These rulers are not a monolithic bunch. They have their own agendas within the oligarchy. At times it could lead to their demise.

if america oligarchy "retreated", it would mean the collapse of the US economy. i'm not one of these gloom and doom people but that outcome would be easy to call. it would signal to the players around the world that US could not maintain it's hegemony. in order to have hegemony, one needs enforcers to maintain the status quo. the net result for the world would be more local control over affairs and more decentralization until some new enforcers stepped in to wrest control back.

It could be very gradual as well. But the net result will be war. If they don't they will have to assert themselves more and more vigorously on the planet level which will lead to war as well in the long run.

when one or a group truly goes VERY HIGH up on the power ladder, it takes an enormous intelligence and energy to create that and maintain that even if evil or warped.

This apply to the US todays. And yes it takes a lot of energy and money. This is why they are looting the planet at their benefits. Intelligence? Maybe. Or just plain deceit.

from a logical sense, war between china / russia / us don't even make sense. let's say russia attacked US and china and won. now what ? i don't see any benefit for russia but i do see an enormous headache for them and a lot of problems in managing their newly won territory. it is better that they cooperate.

WWII did not make sense either. It ended up in the disintegration of two empires. But big money was at stake. The Germans were economically much too strong. For the Brits it was war or the perpective to be sidelined. But they were not strong enough to tangle with the Germans. They needed help. Hitler complied by attacking Russia.

how does one MANAGE what one "WINS" ...
can you economically manage a million dollars well
what about a billion
or a trillion
or 100 trillion
i don't know about you but i'm sure the accountants and lawyers and managers or you name it would be looting me blind at that level

so amassing power has it's contradiction there is a critical mass of power that builds and after a certan point that power starts to dissipate ... it's probably why they keep
coming up with more control mechanisms like chip implants , total information awareness etc

This is the situation in which the US is. I think it should be possible for a superpower to keep its influence and at the same time allow the others to prosper. It does not work that way because greed always takes over.

the elites probably perceive problems in an entirely different light than we do. all we see is this massive power grab and destruction of our freedom while they see it as overcoming the limitations of power

You may be right on that point.
[Edit]

[Edit]
wheat/corn/beans -- volavka, 18:46:02 08/18/03 Mon

all golden (yellow).http://www2.barchart.com/mktcom.asp?section=grains

[Edit]
number six re ..... ****CONTEST**** -- auspec, 16:52:09 08/18/03 Mon

Thanks for your entry, Friend! It is now in the Forum 8 Archives.

This is a most resourceful gang we are up against here, always pulling a fast one on the gold faithful. All they gotta do is target the weak hands, no, as momentum takes over from there?

Apparently mr v won't be considered amongst those weak hands as he won't even entertain the thought of gold being dissed once more. He's the man, ya know.

Waiting for a few more late and pensive entries. These coins are spectacular.

Best to you,

auspec

[Edit]
roger arnold says IT is coming -- qwerty, 16:28:07 08/18/03 Mon

roger is someone who really tries to stay in the box

although i like him because he is sincere and will tell you what he thinks

unlike so many other media scumbags who say whatever the script tells them to say

roger had a doom and gloom show today

he is the anti-thesis of a doom and gloomer

he is on a private mailing list where he talks with hedge fund and other people around the world ... he says there is a consensus that the economy is hurdling down the tubes

his outlook for housing prices is the lowest it has ever been. talking about a 30 to 50 percent hit in prices

he tells people to ACT NOW

for me, he is the canary on the railroad track ... he will twirp very loud when the train is coming near

I think IT is coming soon

[Edit]
Why Hasn’t “IT” Happened Yet? -- qwerty, 15:06:10 08/18/03 Mon

http://www.cornerstoneri.com/comments/why_hasn%27t_it_happened.htm

Why Hasn’t “IT” Happened Yet?

To listen to some bears (The real bears, not the Wall Street phonies that, in a bold move of bearishness, reduced their stock allocations from 75% to 70%) over the past few years, you would have thought we would all be in breadlines and soup kitchens by now. So far, all of the ranting about doom and gloom sounds more like the boy who cried wolf than accurate forecasting.

No, I don’t believe we have breadlines in our future, but when IT happens, things are going to get much worse than most can imagine. But “IT” hasn’t happened yet. Even though the markets have lost over $6 trillion of value according to the NYSE and the Nasdaq, IT still hasn’t happened yet.

What is IT? Why hasn’t IT happened and when will it?

IT is a financial disruption. IT is an irreversible downward spiral that takes everything down with it. IT will be started by a catalyst, a spark that will get everybody’s attention. But IT is already built into the economy prior to the spark, like a bunch of oil rags waiting for a match. Some of the candidates for the catalyst include the following:

Ø Crash of the Dollar

Ø Stock Market Crash

Ø Credit Crunch

Ø Derivative meltdown at a major bank (JP Morgan/Citicorp…)

Ø Nuclear War

Ø Major terrorist attack on the US (Nuke, Bio, Chem)

Ø Major Corporate Debt Default

Ø Major Municipal Default

Ø Foreign Dumping of Bonds

Ø Interest rate spike

Above are the matches. By themselves, most can be weathered. But when combined with the poor fundamentals of the economy and market, they can turn into an inferno. Below are some of the oily rags, waiting to ignite when a lit matches drop on them.

ü Massive amounts of derivatives

ü Devaluation of the Dollar

ü Overvalued stock market

ü Massive build up of corporate debt

ü Massive build up of personal debt

ü Under-funded pensions

ü Housing bubble

ü Low cash levels in mutual funds

ü Poor earnings

ü Deflation

ü Municipal deficits

But IT may not happen as many expect. Many investors are waiting for something sudden, a market crash or a geo-political event. They want to see the fire before they believe there is danger. If you were to ask most people, they would tell you that things haven’t really changed that much for them over the past 3 years. Yes, their 401k is down “but it’ll come back” is their attitude. Investor attitudes are much too complacent. They see nothing to worry about.


Liabilities have been outpacing income for several years. But since Year 2000, income growth has slowed while expenses have continued to accelerate. People clearly don't "get it."
Source of Data: Fed Reserve; Format CIS

And why hasn’t IT happened yet? Because the Fed has played Fire Chief and kept liquidity flowing. But there is only so long that the Fed can the spigots wide open. All they are doing is delaying the inevitable, not curing it. Adding liquidity has made many of our economic problems worse, not better.

The Crash in 1987 was a shocker to almost everyone. Alan Greenspan was on the phone to the major banks that afternoon offering liquidity to anyone that needed it and asking traders and firms to offer more generous terms with regards to settlement of trades. The downturn in 1997 was saved by the Fed adding liquidity and helping prop up some poor countries. In 1998, the Long Term Capital debacle caught almost everyone flat-footed. Along came the Fed to the rescue and voila, problem solved. Then came Y2K and the Fed just automatically turned on the printing presses to prevent any problems. All of these problems had similar characteristics - they were sudden and solved by the Fed with increased liquidity.


This chart shows that the fabled liquidity that Wall Street crows about doesn't exist. This chart is a comparison of M2 (liquid money) to the NYSE capitalization. (If the Nasdaq's capitalization were included the chart would look even worse.) Liquidity bottomed out in the 1st quarter of Year 2000. It is only slightly higher today, but not enough to make a case for a bull run based on liquidity.
Source: Federal Reserve/NYSE ; Format: CIS

In fact, the Fed’s solutions have contributed to IT, making IT worse. Too much liquidity has driven stock prices to overvaluation. Too much liquidity has made interest rates so low, corporations and individuals have taken on unmanageable debt loads. Too much liquidity has driven up the housing bubble. Too much liquidity has devalued the Dollar. Adding more liquidity doesn’t solve any of these problems, it just delays the inevitable, when IT happens.

When will IT happen? It already is. IT is happening all around us. The “oily rags” are there for everybody to see. Debt continues to pile up. The market is still over valued. The Dollar is sagging. No, these aren’t things that have “always been going on” as some pyromaniacs on Wall Street would have you believe.

The catalysts are also there for everybody to see. No, they haven’t happened yet, but we are getting close. We had a close call with a credit crunch last year in the bond market. North Korea is not going quietly into the night. We have reduced the threat of domestic terrorism, but not eliminated it. The potential for a stock market crash is always there with a market so overvalued. Derivatives are only getting worse, now totaling more than $61 trillion at the top ten US banks according to the Comptroller of Currency. (How risky is this? The total of derivatives is 6 times bigger than the entire US GDP.)

What are the odds of any one of the catalysts happening? It varies. I would put the odds of a nuclear war at very, very low. (I imagine if you talk to the North Koreans, they might think differently.) The odds of a derivative meltdown taking down a major bank is much higher. Barings Bank’s failure and Long Term Capital’s failure have shown us that derivatives can cause financial disaster. The top banks are playing with matches, big matches, and there is almost no Federal regulation on derivatives. Warren Buffett referred to derivatives as financial time bombs.

The odds are that the catalyst will come from the credit markets. Maybe foreigners will start to dump US bonds. If they do this, it could cause US interest rates to spike up. Could this happen? Right now, the ECB (European Central Bank) is selling all of its Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds due to the problems with the huge mortgage originators’ balance sheets. They are also recommending that all of the other Central Banks in Europe do the same.

And when IT does happen, it is likely to have a domino effect. Foreign dumping of US debt could cause rates to skyrocket. This will likely cause the Dollar to crash. This will also lead to a market decline/crash. (In case you haven’t noticed, the Dollar has been declining for most of the year, down about 30% off the high. With The ECB announcement, it appears Foreigners are starting to dump US debt. Rates have been climbing for the past few weeks. And the stock market seems to be topping out. The question is how far will it decline?)

It is also important to understand the destruction a major long term bear market does to an economy. There is an old joke that says a recession is when your neighbor loses his job, a depression is when you lose yours. There will be no quick fix to what ails the US economy. Adding liquidity is the Fed’s only answer, but too much liquidity is the cause of the problem, not the answer.

Retired investors will have to go back to work. Older workers can’t afford to retire. (Already happening.) Consumers slow their spending to concentrate on paying down debt instead of shopping. An economy that is only sputtering along goes into a nose-dive without the consumer propping it up. And with unemployment rising, it doesn’t have enough jobs for everybody that needs one.

There is enough smoke to know there are still problems with the US markets and economy. Anyone that is tired of hearing about all of the dire predictions from the bears should be careful. Anyone that is waiting for IT to arrive before they act is playing a dangerous game. Now is the time to act to protect assets.

Maybe IT will unfold slowly. Maybe IT will be a sudden event. It doesn’t matter to Cornerstone Investment Services because we are investing with the oily rags in mind, not the matches. Waiting for the matches to ignite before you take action will be too late. The fundamentals are the oil rags, and the oily rags are smoldering. Don’t wait for the fire.

[Edit]
USD/EUR -- Netking, 13:06:31 08/18/03 Mon

Triple bottom in place, be positioned for the kick up real soon. Gold simply reacting to the forex cross, stay focused.
1.1109 - 07/16/2003
1.1133 - 08/01/2003
1.1124 - 08/18/2003

[Edit]
locked limit -- volavka, 12:47:13 08/18/03 Mon

Silver to follow:

http://charts3.barchart.com/chart.asp?sym=SU3&data=A&jav=adv&vol=Y&evnt=adv&grid=Y&code=BSTK&org=stk&fix=

[Edit]
sinclair on sunday -- qwerty, 11:40:18 08/18/03 Mon

=====
The bond market has broken more than it should have over a short period of time. The derivatives are exploding now and we might just go straight to and through not only $400 but $500, $600, $700 and up. That is how it happened at the end of 1979. No one knows for sure, however. I certainly do not. But I know it is possible right now and right here.
======

too fast an ascent may create damage to the gold bull that would take time to repair

[Edit]
Sell your mother -- volavka, 11:11:21 08/18/03 Mon

Pathetic. Stinkin 5.00 drop. That's all you got?
Sell your mother.

[Edit]
rc -- qwerty, 08:24:45 08/18/03 Mon

===
The latter are arming full speed. Americans believe it could take several decades before China can challenge the US. I would not bet on it. The Russians are rearming too.

...

On the other hand if the US retreat to American soil then the dollars is toasted and American living standard will plumet. Which will inevitably lead to war.
==

american, russia and china are run by sophisticated criminal mafia oligarchies ...

america and russia are very tight in terms of relationship

if they had any war between them, it would need approval by both elite oligarchies. i don't even see a remote possibility of war without this.

i think even somewhat same with china but they are a little more mysterious

given that these people think on such long term persiods, i think they have had some talks about creating another war 10 to 20 years from now


the difficulty with making a real objective assessment of the situation is that we lack objective information as to what REAL conflict happens at their level.

I think most any conflict we hear or see is manufactured conflict. The Pentagon disinformation people seem to be in charge of this area media wise.

It's not just trying to figure out the real vs the manufactured conflict but there is also a level which complicated matters. We are talking about people's PERCEPTION.

At the highest levels it can be manufactured conflict. At lower compartmentalized level, it can be real. The cold war was like that. If your on a battle field with the Chinese and you each shoot a bullet and it goes whistling past each others head, the conflict is real at your level.

Since the oligarchies enclose people in a fictitious world, so much of our perceptions are based on false data
and this presents a very difficult problem in terms of analysis of a situation

We deal with COVERT alliances or maybe COVERT conflict ... from my experience, the former are the most prevalent problem ... they really like the public to perceive conflict since it creates fear and more control for them


If we only had a better sources of info that would give us a better understanding and insight of how the oligarchies relate to each other and a yearly updated status then we could really make a lot of head way into interpreting things

the problem with dividing conflicts based upon border is that there may be more than a few oligarchies in china in an alliance with a few oligarchies in the US.

So who is allying with who and who is not. I really don't know so I have to take my best educated guess

we just don't know where the agreements and disagreements lie. even the ones in alliances may have their disagreements with each other. So there can be complexity that we may not even fathom and we may be dealing with dynamic situations in areas we can't even imagine

the public like simplicity. they like black and white. good and bad. anything that goes beyond that means that people need to use their energy and think

who really rules on a high level ... even i don't know that for sure although we do make some guesses

since they keep us in the dark and control the media, we just do our best in interpreting the outward signs and scraps of info we can dig up to put together the puzzle

we have to deal with a lot of deception

if america oligarchy "retreated", it would mean the collapse of the US economy. i'm not one of these gloom and doom people but that outcome would be easy to call. it would signal to the players around the world that US could not maintain it's hegemony. in order to have hegemony, one needs enforcers to maintain the status quo. the net result for the world would be more local control over affairs and more decentralization until some new enforcers stepped in to wrest control back.

when one or a group truly goes VERY HIGH up on the power ladder, it takes an enormous intelligence and energy to create that and maintain that even if evil or warped.

from a logical sense, war between china / russia / us don't even make sense. let's say russia attacked US and china and won. now what ? i don't see any benefit for russia but i do see an enormous headache for them and a lot of problems in managing their newly won territory. it is better that they cooperate.

how does one MANAGE what one "WINS" ...

can you economically manage a million dollars well

what about a billion

or a trillion

or 100 trillion

i don't know about you but i'm sure the accountants and lawyers and managers or you name it would be looting me blind at that level

so amassing power has it's contradiction

there is a critical mass of power that builds and after a certan point that power starts to dissipate ... it's probably why they keep coming up with more control mechanisms like chip implants , total information awareness etc

the elites probably perceive problems in an entirely different light than we do. all we see is this massive power grab and destruction of our freedom while they see it as overcoming the limitations of power

[Edit]
***contest entry**** -- number six, 06:42:25 08/18/03 Mon

Sorry, but I'm not a very competitive soul. So I only almost get to the topic.

I reckon that if I was gonna take a short position on gold, big enough to shatter my world $-domination if busted by a gold bull, then a; that indicates the centrality of gold price-minimisation to my financial architecture,and

b; I reckon I would have a defensive plan b and c to back up my position.

Success, or rumours/indications thereof, in the endeavour of gold mining via a revolutionary new process, eg from sea water, or from soil... relieving the necessity for ore. If someone made ore obsolete, or pretended/intimated they could, then gold price would sink sink sink,

Maybe our gold cabal phantoms are a step ahead, of course. Maybe they realise that the way to square their gold short position, is to shake out enough holders, and accumulate an outsized long position, such that a gold bull is net excellent for them. A slow boil gold bull, eg 01-03, is perfect for sucking in sophisticated capital, without setting off a begerk-runaway mainstream bull. It's a scheme for accumulating wealth to the central banks perhaps? - they just all have to loosen up on their standards, (easy for these ho's,) and get jiggy with deep-storage gold as a legitimate currency backer. Why shouldn't the bis own half of Ghana, for example? They don't need to have it in their vaults, they just let it be known that they've gone & got all the deep storage stitched up.

BUt actually, I don't buy this scenario. For any other market-cornering scenario run by bigswingingdicks, I would expect they could unwind the corner at a further profit if they have sufficient opm to leverize. But in this gold market set-up, my hunch is that price suppression is deliberate and "necessary," because gold's lowness is NECESSARY for paper's highness. And the paper racket is FAR more important that the trillion or so that private dudes could make offof a well-orchestrated close shorts-go mega-long turnaround pump job. And maybe just maybe, the reason why some billionaire market sharks don't go and bust open the whole scene, eg place an order for 300 mil ag oz's, is that it's fundamentally an area of...............national security. Sorry to say. They can see the billions sitting there waiting for someone to walk along and pick them up, but they frankly do not need the freakin hassle. A man with billions is usually a man more concerned with having a good time, rather than with risking his happiness to make more millions. Maybe there's some cavalier ones still today? But perceptions of involvement of national security, has a way of shoo-ing off people who don't need the trouble, basically.

The pentagon sees oil supply as a legitimate actionable war essential for the pentagon's own continued existence. BEcause the oil is obviously 100% necessary for pentagons continued existence so it can operationally enact its mission, pentagon would kill anything that threatened it's oil supply. Now aren't greenback power and treasuries power both just as essential for the 'gon to continue it's current operational/spending regime? Wouldn't that make their continuation a national security matter??? Not something you can just bust heads over, you have to win people over instead, with a miasma of bs and fear.

Does anyone remember that crazy thing that Washington announced? Not the latest one, but the one about 15 crazy announcements back? The one from ~july'02 where they announced a new pentagon office that would lie in order to bamboozle rogues and evil doers? To which people replied, "yeah we know you all lie all the damn time, but it's kind of weird you're stupid enough to ANNOUNCE that you're gonna lie from now on!" "My gawd, you've gone mad again!"

Pentagon was none-plussed by the reaction of the populace and the media and the international "community", so then the Office of Strategic Lies, or whatever it was called, came out with it's first and last announcement. An announcement proclaiming it's own disbanditure,.. the Pennagon pulled the plug, and we weren't gonna run an Office of Strategic Deceptive Bullshit any more. Honest. ;)

Does it strike anyone as weird that the one and only act of the Department of B.S. was to publicly proclaim it's own cessation? "We're gonna stop doing what we said we were gonna do, signed the Office of Lying About Things." I am supposed to freakin believe them or not?????!!!!!:) There's steam coming out of my ears!

If they did disappear or if they didn't, would we honestly be able to tell the difference anyhow? Could we really tell if the lie came from the initiative of a field operative, or if it came from central BS command?

In non-conclusion, i can't think of any non- far fetched ways the cabal could caballerial-varial the gold price. My darling silver, could on the other hand be sent to lower-price-land by a mineral discovery of sufficient size and richness. i.e. I don't rule out such an earthshaking discovery for silver, (eg, a 2 billion oz deposit,) but i do more or less rule out a commensurate strike for gold. It's just a reflection of how the minerals are deposited in the earth, imho. Silver would trade for a decade as a cheap industrial supply-demand metal in such a case, whereas gold won't get treated like that from here. Unless you could immediately capture billions of au oz's buy growing the right cabbages in WA, and phytoming the shiney yellow. New tech could change the economics of gold, and it's price would drop accordingly. BUt I dunnno if the cabal have any such thing up their sleave?


Never attribute to happenstance, that which can be properly attributed to rat cunning.

[Edit]
qwerty -- Sojo, 06:22:15 08/18/03 Mon


qwerty, I had not considered a global army for internal strife. Good point. Thank you.

I used the Library of Alexandria because it was "reportedly" the largest one ever before the Library of Congress.

Sojo

[Edit]
frlk -- volavka, 06:05:46 08/18/03 Mon

frlk low volume but will seek 1.00+

Govern yourself.

[Edit]
There it isn't -- volavka, 04:46:30 08/18/03 Mon

They want to flush you.
stay focused.
support right here, if she cracks it will push down to 359 basis dec.

Just be patient look @ soybeans 1/2 a limit move prior to open, could lock, look @ oil.
crb moving.
Paper burns

[Edit]
There it isn't -- volavka, 04:45:49 08/18/03 Mon

They want to flush you.
stay focused.
support right here, if she cracks it will push down to 359 basis dec.

Just be patient look @ soybeans 1/2 a limit move prior to open, could lock, look @ oil.
crb moving.
Paper burns

[Edit]
I'm right . . . . prophecy to the dry bones -- Netking, 03:11:10 08/18/03 Mon

3 X 1 oz .999 Silver Rounds could be heading south Dr V.

[Edit]
Churchill -- volavka, 03:10:45 08/18/03 Mon

Table of life, one whom I would have liked to have met;
"A woman is like a good cigar, you gotta lite 'um up before you smoke um."

Gold , girls
Silver to follow.
smoke--------------------fire...

[Edit]
you're wrong -- volavka, 02:59:32 08/18/03 Mon

contest will end and metals will see no end.

[Edit]
grains -- volavka, 02:56:41 08/18/03 Mon

If u follow the old soybean/silver trade, soybeans going crazy tonite on access mkt.
metals dip over, gonna go today.

[Edit]
ER / Auspec / Gold Charade Contest: Ends August 31 -- Rex, 01:49:20 08/18/03 Mon

Just a reminder to everyone..

EagleRanch's first-ever Contest is still running, and you have the remainder
of this week to post your entries. The Contest ends at Midnight, August 31..

Auspec suggested the Contest, and has been appointed it's Judge and Moderator.

Three co-equal prizes will be awarded to three winners: 1 oz .999 Silver Rounds.

These lovely pieces have already been sent to Auspec. He will distribute them
to the winners. There's no need to contact ER with a suitable postal mailing
address. Simply contact Auspec by email, and I'm sure he will keep them fully
confidential and used for that postal-shipping purpose only.

Auspec's premise for the Contest is this:

"POG is getting more than difficult for TPTB to keep it confined from lift off."

So he envisions the Cabal pulling another stunt - a Charade - to quell enthusiasm
for the precious yellow metal. And he's sure it will fail, and be quite laughable.

Therefore, Auspec asks - as the Contest Question - ..

"What do you think TPTB will try next, as a grandstand play to suppress the POG?"

Auspec mentions previous examples, such as The Washington Agreement; BoE Auctions;
Kuwaiti gold sales; Swiss gold sales; Russian gold announcements; etc etc etc.

So, use your imagination, and try to think of some others they might try this time.
Even if you disagree, you might try posting an example, and shoot it down with your
reasoning. If it's logical enough, Auspec might just accept it as a winner..

Post your entry here in ER Forum 1, and while it's still in your word processor,
paste it into a Post at ER Forum 8, in the Thread there for the Gold Charade Contest.

Please indicate in your Post, ********Contest Entry******* or something similar, so
that your entry can be easily found and included in the Contest.

Thanks to all the entrants, so far, and to Auspec for his efforts in coordinating it.

..Rex

[Edit]
@qwerty - the cabal -- rc, 22:53:48 08/17/03 Sun

Many scenari are possible. One can dabble at infinitum about which one is going to play out and be wrong. But as economy deteriorates and living conditions are worsening all over the so-called western world, one can safely surmise that the conditions prevailing since the end of the second world war are changing. Fast.

Europeans are getting edgy. One can envision another war in Europe between old Europe and the new one helped by the US. But then what about the Russians and the Chineses? The latter are arming full speed. Americans believe it could take several decades before China can challenge the US. I would not bet on it. The Russians are rearming too.

Bush and his ilk are playing a very dangerous game. The Russians and the Chineses have already pledged to guarantee North Korean sovereignty. Some Americans consider it to be a bluff. Again I would not bet on it. In case of conflict there the US will have to go it alone. Europeans won't follow. Or.... well you see the point?

On the other hand if the US retreat to American soil then the dollars is toasted and American living standard will plumet. Which will inevitably lead to war.

[Edit]
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 22:28:37 08/17/03 Sun

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,702.01 + Dow 9,321.69 = 11,023.70 divide by 2 = 5,511.85 Ponzi

up 94.29 from last week.

Thanks for the link RossL !

Go GATA!

Go GOLD!

$hifty



[Edit]
Test -- $hifty, 22:27:10 08/17/03 Sun

Test

[Edit]
sojo -- qwerty, 21:32:46 08/17/03 Sun

>Too bad that the Christians burned down the Library of Alexandria

You could change it to fill in the blank ...
>Too bad that the _________ burned down the
Library of ____________

your right, it's a real shame

an enormous amount of knowledge has been suppressed and destroyed over the history of this planet

think about the secrecy laws ... the masses blindly accept them without hardly a peep

i remember when the watergate was all over the papers and tv back when ... it was pretty much self evident that the administration was involved in criminality and cover up

inspite of that, people overwhelmingly repeated the mantra
... i just can't believe a president would do that ... it was utterly amazing ... and this is with media exposure ... people didn't want to know ... many people said we don't care, we like him anyway ... dumb

now that the media is tightened up and controlled, that is bliss for most americans

if the library of alexandria existed today, the cabal would have no difficulty convincing americans that it had to be burnt and destroyed

freedom and knowledge are anathema to most americans except on a superficial level

as far as why they want a global army, i guess if one of their underlings gets any ideas of becoming idependent ...

so let's say you were a mandarin put in charge of the region / country or some segment of this planet ... if one day, you and you associates got to talking and said, hey, we are better off if we split away

we already got a global army made up of coalition countries but it would be more straightforward with just one uniform command

[Edit]
Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 20:26:03 08/17/03 Sun






US$/POG: from www.kitco.com US$/POS: from www.kitco.com EURO/POG: from www.kitco.com [Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]





LbS/POG: from www.kitco.com London Fix: from www.kitco.com LbS/POS: from www.kitco.com


[Edit]
qwerty -- Sojo, 20:03:28 08/17/03 Sun


qwerty.

You are too knowledgeable to just have a wild speculation. I think we have gleaned some of the same knowledge. Your last post would indicate so anyway. Too bad that the Christians burned down the Library of Alexandria during the 4th century. We lost a lot of knowledge that had been gathered for thousands of years in written form.

BTW, I understand why They want a global police, but I can't figure the global army - unless it is to protect against other civilizations. Is that
the reason?

TIA,
Sojo

[Edit]
rc -- qwerty, 19:34:31 08/17/03 Sun

one other thing about defeating the cabal

they can defeat themselves and take us along

my sense is that there has been numerous other technologically advanced human like civilizations on this planet for hundreds of thousands or millions of years
that have gone through birth, growth and eventual destruction

we may just complete another cycle again in a couple thousand years ... in the meantime we just live the remaining in an invisible prison until the wardens die

[Edit]
Dollar Talk @ dotti -- auspec, 18:35:17 08/17/03 Sun

"I have not yet begun to sink..........."

When the smoke and fogged mirors clear..........the banana can be seen in all its splendor. Not visible to the feint of heart.

Skolnick is right OR the blackout NOW becomes another reason to abandon US assets. Either way......tis a problem. Would you hold or remove precious from a ship taking on water?

gwb.........programmed child in a man's world, surrounded by sychophants, yes Peter, sychophants. Solutions all worse than the problem with this lot. The guy simply has.............BAD CONNECTIONS.

WHY DOES TEXAS HAVE ITS OWN POWER GRID?? Mr. v??

[Edit]
@All -- dotti, 17:54:14 08/17/03 Sun

qwerty: "we don't need no stinkin' global currencies"

querty, I agree.

Unfortunately, we are at the bottom of the pile. Our currency stinks right now. Where do we go from here?

auspec?????

dotti

[Edit]
rc -- qwerty, 17:35:42 08/17/03 Sun

not saying it's impossible but i think there is insufficient intelligence and knowledge among people in general to overcome them for now

but what may be possible is to impede them to slow down their plan or even set them back a little

they operate on a time scale that most people can't even imagine ... 50, 100 years etc

with global currency will come global taxes ... the tax will be to help the poor little hungry children of the world ... then they juice us even more until we are dried out prunes eventuallyfunding a world army and world police

we don't need no stinkin' global currencies

[Edit]
rc -- auspec, 17:30:53 08/17/03 Sun

No global currency? You will not likely be part of the collectivist State w that attitude...........! Smile.

YOU, have a great evening!

[Edit]
bonds -- qwerty, 17:17:07 08/17/03 Sun

http://www.stock-options-alert.com/soaspecial0814.pdf

[Edit]
@qwerty - destroying the cabal -- rc, 16:58:28 08/17/03 Sun

you know, maybe even a direct hit of earth by a giant asteroid would not destroy the cabal

The French and Russian revolutions did just that. They got rid of the oligarchy of the time which was the aristocracy. Replaced over the years by the usurers' oligarchy. Why is it not possible to get rid of it this time?

[Edit]
@auspec - Global currency -- rc, 16:42:37 08/17/03 Sun

DOES THE GLOBAL ECONOMY NEED A GLOBAL CURRENCY?

The resounding answer is NO. We already have two global currencies and they are gold and silver. Anything else is fraudulent.

Have a good evening. ;-)

[Edit]
saddam -- qwerty, 16:19:30 08/17/03 Sun

===

Film will soon be made public of an Iraqi Army officer describing how he saw a US Air Force transport fly Saddam Hussein out of Baghdad. The explosive eyewitness testimony was shot by independent filmmaker Patrick Dillon, who recently returned from a risky one-man odyssey in Iraq. In the film, the officer, who told Dillon that he commanded a special combat unit during the battle for Baghdad airport and whose identity is temporarily being withheld, explains in detail how he watched as the Iraqi dictator and members of his inner circle were evacuated from Iraq's capital by what he emphatically insists were United States Air Force cargo planes.
Presently, the only copies of the film (which I have not yet seen) are in New York City. People who have viewed it describe it to me as compelling.

===

probably true in it's essence

without US help, there would be no place for him to hide

also being on the CIA's 6 man team for Iraq back in 1959, they will likely give him a pension for his long service

[Edit]
bob chapman -- qwerty, 15:56:37 08/17/03 Sun

====
We do believe we are in deflationary times, but elitist mouthpiece Sir Alan Greenspan has told us he will inflate as long and as much as he has to in order to fend off depression. Thus, we are faced with hyperinflation as the elitists grope to find a way out of their financial morass. We are about to enter Weimerland and right after that is over we enter a depression, worse than the 1930s. That will be followed by civil war or revolution and the termination of the elitist conspiracy. All this agony will bring $3,500 per ounce gold prices
===

as far as termination of the elite, does that mean i can go to the supermarket and figure out which is GM food and which is not GM food with labels

you know, maybe even a direct hit of earth by a giant asteroid would not destroy the cabal

even if it don't happen, we can always dream

[Edit]
maybe another war -- qwerty, 15:35:35 08/17/03 Sun

================

Former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Joseph Wilson predicts the situation in Iraq will deteriorate so much over the next year Bush may resort to start another war in order to win the 2004 election. Wilson is the retired diplomat who visited Niger in a CIA-sponsored trip last year during which he determined the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal was bogus. His conclusion was ignored by the Bush White House.

Retired U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson is accusing the White House of orchestrating a smear attack against him and his wife. Wilson gained headlines earlier this month when he revealed that he had personally travelled to Niger in 2002 in a CIA-financed trip to investigate any nuclear link between the African nation and Iraq. Wilson set off a firestorm of debate when he told the media, the White House and CIA were both warned in 2002 of his findings.

Wilson now says the White House deliberately leaked to the press that his wife, Valerie Plame, is a covert CIA operative thus damaging her career and compromising past missions.

Writing on the Nation website, David Corn points out that whoever within the Bush administration outted Wilson’s wife may have committed treason. Disclosing information that identifies covert agents violates the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. Plame’s identify was first revealed in a column by conservative Robert Novak who said government officials leaked him the information.

www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/30/1513221

=======================================



corn and novak have also committed treason against the country by their cover up of 911 and other treasonous acts

democracynow is a tainted org ... maybe soros funds this

like so many of the elites news organs, the are selective in terms of what info they will give to their targeted political sub groups

it still good info above but one needs to know how the elite news organs play the disinformation game with ommission

i have no doubt corn gets a paycheck from the cia

nixon was taken out by the elites with the help of the cia. nixon was still a big supporter of the elite and cia inspite of that. he kept his mouth shut also.

maybe the elite have already planned to dispose of bush to solidify their gains as ruppert says

[Edit]
The Gangs -- jomama, 14:05:57 08/17/03 Sun

Large or small gangs killing, maiming, raping, looting and
jailing folks in a given area for control of that area
is different from anarchy in what way?

[Edit]
and again -- qwerty, 13:45:15 08/17/03 Sun

=============

Gaza security chief announces arrest of three Palestinians used by Israeli intelligence as al-Qaeda operatives.

By Sophie Claudet - GAZA CITY

A senior Palestinian security official claimed Saturday his services had uncovered an Israeli plot to create a mock Al-Qaeda cell in the Gaza Strip, while an Israeli official dismissed the charge as "absurd".

Gaza head of preventive security Rashid Abu Shbak told journalists at a press conference that Israeli agents, posing as operatives of Osama bin Laden's terrorist group, recruited Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

"Over the past nine months, we've been investigating eight cases in which Israeli intelligence posing as Al-Qaeda operatives recruited Palestinians in the Gaza Strip," said Abu Shbak, referring to a series of e-mails and phone call conversations.

=========

al queda groups are the offspring of a coalition of intelligence agencies including the US. Israel is just one.

their working together to bring terrorism to the world

when employment is high enough and jobs exported, your average american will see career opportunities in al queda fronts as something to consider

plus they won't officially be on welfare plus they will have adventure

[Edit]
here we go again -- qwerty, 11:58:00 08/17/03 Sun



==============
Is the Philippine government bombing its own people for dollars?

Naomi Klein
Friday August 15, 2003
The Guardian

What does it take to become a major news story in the summer of Arnie and Kobe, Ben and Jen? A lot, as a group of young Philippine soldiers discovered recently. On July 27, 300 soldiers rigged a giant Manila shopping mall with C-4 explosives, accused one of Washington's closest allies of blowing up its own buildings to attract US military dollars - and still barely managed to make the international news.

That's our loss, because in the wake of the Marriott bombing in Jakarta and newly leaked intelligence reports claiming that the September 11 attacks were hatched in Manila, it looks like south-east Asia is about to become the next major front in Washington's war on terror.

The Philippines and Indonesia may have missed the cut for the axis of evil, but the two countries do offer Washington something Iran and North Korea do not: US-friendly governments willing to help the Pentagon secure an easy win. Both the Philippine president Gloria Macapagal Arroyo and the Indonesian president Megawati Sukarnoputri have embraced Bush's crusade as the perfect cover for their brutal cleansing of separatist movements from resource-rich regions - Mindanao in the Philippines, Aceh in Indonesia.

The Philippine government has already reaped a bonanza from its status as Washington's favoured terror-fighting ally in Asia. US military aid increased from $2m (£1.25m) in 2001 to $80m a year, while US soldiers and special forces flooded into Mindanao to launch offensives against Abu Sayyaf, a group the White House claims has links to al-Qaida.

This went on until mid-February, when the US-Philippine alliance suffered a major setback. On the eve of a new joint military operation involving more than 3,000 US soldiers, a Pentagon spokesperson told reporters that US troops in the Philippines would "actively participate" in combat - a deviation from the Arroyo administration's line that the soldiers were only conducting training.

The difference is significant. A clause in the Philippine constitution bans combat by foreign soldiers on its soil, a safeguard against a return of the sprawling US military bases that were banished from the Philippines in 1992. The public outcry against the February announcement was so strong that the entire operation had to be called off and future joint operations suspended.

In the six months since, while all eyes have been on Iraq, there has been a leap in terrorist bombings in Mindanao. Now, post-mutiny, the question is: who was responsible for these? The government blames the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF). The mutinous soldiers point the finger back at the military and the government, saying that by inflating the terrorist threat, they are rebuilding the justification for more US aid and intervention.

The soldiers claim that:

· Senior military officials, in collusion with the Arroyo regime, carried out last March's bombing of the airport in the southern city of Davao, as well as several other attacks. Thirty-eight people were killed in the bombings. The leader of the mutiny, Lieutenant Antonio Trillanes, claims to have "hundreds" of witnesses who can testify to the plot.

· The army has fuelled terrorism in Mindanao by selling weapons and ammunition to the very rebel forces the young soldiers were sent to fight.

· Members of the military and police helped prisoners convicted of terrorist crimes escape from jail. The "final validation", according to Trillanes, was Fathur Rohman al-Ghozi's July 14 escape from a heavily guarded Manila prison. Al-Ghozi is a notorious bomb-maker with Jemaah Islamiah, which was linked to both the Bali and Marriott attacks.

· The government was on the verge of staging a new string of bombings to justify declaring martial law.

Arroyo denies the allegations and accuses the soldiers of being pawns of her unscrupulous political opponents. The mutineers insist they were not trying to seize power but only wanted to expose a top-level conspiracy. When Arroyo promised to launch a full investigation into the allegations, the mutiny ended without violence.

Though the soldiers' tactics were widely condemned in the Philippines, there was widespread recognition in the press, and even inside the military, that their claims were "valid and legitimate", as retired navy captain Danilo Vizmanos put it to me.

Local newspaper reports described the army's selling of weapons to rebels as "an open secret" and "common knowledge". General Narciso Abaya, the chief of staff of the Philippine armed forces, conceded that there is "graft and corruption at all levels". And the police have admitted that al-Ghozi couldn't have escaped from his cell without help from someone on the inside. Most significant, Victor Corpus, the chief of army intelligence, resigned, though he denies any role in the Davao bombings.

Besides, the soldiers were not the first to accuse the Philippine government of bombing its own people. Days before the mutiny, a coalition of church groups, lawyers and NGOs launched a "fact-finding mission" to investigate persistent rumours that the state was involved in the Davao explosions. It is also investigating the possible involvement of US intelligence agencies.

These suspicions stem from a bizarre incident on May 16 2002, in Davao. Michael Meiring, a US citizen, allegedly detonated explosives in his hotel room, injuring himself badly. While recovering in hospital, Meiring was whisked away by two men - who witnesses say identified themselves as FBI agents - and flown to the US. Local officials have demanded that Meiring return to face charges, to little effect. BusinessWorld, a leading Philippine newspaper, has published articles openly accusing Meiring of being a CIA agent involved in covert operations "to justify the stationing of American troops and bases in Mindanao".

Yet the Meiring affair has never been reported in the US press. And the mutinous soldiers' incredible allegations were no more than a one-day story. Maybe it just seemed too outlandish: an out-of-control government fanning the flames of terrorism to pump up its military budget, hold on to power and violate civil liberties. Why would Americans be interested in something like that?

· A version of this article appears in the Nation. Naomi Klein's most recent book is Fences and Windows

=====

[Edit]
soho -- qwerty, 11:50:07 08/17/03 Sun

no ... just wild speculation

[Edit]
Bush to ReBuild Power Grid? -- auspec, 11:33:36 08/17/03 Sun

As reported out of today's MIDAS:

The Superconductor stocks were on the fly Friday in anticipation of the power grid being rebuilt.

Superconductor? Superconductor? Oh, yea, that means SILVER, no? Lots and lots of SILVER! OOPS!

On another subject..........The Privateer states that MANY Muslim countries are sending troops into Iraq to participate in the shooting gallery going on there. No fatalities reported to oil wells so far. We can't secure the entire country so we'll just concentrate on the essence {literally} of the country.

[Edit]
Silver -- Netking, 10:54:08 08/17/03 Sun

Silverware, it's back in vogue, don't be seen without it

[Edit]
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