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EagleRanch PRIMARY Forum 1
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Welcome to EagleRanch PRIMARY Forum 1

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Times are getting better -- Frisco Fred, 10:13:40 11/17/03 Mon


Feel so good now..... closed my au mutual fund account (90% profit) and put it all in physical.
That is 90% over 2 years.

Let the cold wind blow,
FF

[Edit]
385 another floor of support -- qwerty, 10:08:51 11/17/03 Mon

come on cabal, these bops are becoming children play ... try for a 50 dollar bop ... let's see how long before it goes back up


i think the bopping of gold is good

it allows the accumulators to buy gold for dirt cheap hence take more gold away from central banks

it allows gold to retest lows to further strengthen the technicals

it gets the weak hands out assuming there are any left

builds more upward pressure on the gold bull

gee, we have been through this bopping so many times

it is just old news

tell the sheep all about it ... keep them scared

if you have fiat reserves, you can even buy more gold shares on any pullback

the 400 level does seem like another sensitive level

maybe their risk control programs have told them that they need to start buying at somne point so the PPT had no choice but to take action to help buy time

385 seems to be another floor in gold ... like the 367 mark was before ... 18 dollar gain in gold

i'm sure sinclair is loading his boat up

[Edit]
California Quake -- Questioner, 10:01:02 11/17/03 Mon

This is from Mitch Battros of Earth Changes TV.

Amchitka Island Explodes With Several 'Mega Quakes'...11/17/03
by Mitch Battros (ECTV)
Folks, I can tell you I have never seen anything like this before. What you see below is no less than nine (9) 7.7 to 7.9 'mega quakes'. This is so unusual, I wonder of nuclear testing has taken place. If it was not nuclear testing, could it have something to do with HAARP? And if not HAARP, what may have caused this enourmous string of mega quakes? Is there a 'cause & effect' scenerio to the Sun? Will there be more? Is this somehow related to Earth's magnetic pole shift? Then again, maybe it is nothing at all. Oh I'm sure the Earth has seen this many times before, but no one living today has.

Comments: The earth rings like a bell. Chain reaction events...
Will earth changes effect the price of mining companies? Will it make more sense to invest in exploration companies as oppossed to actual existing mines?

[Edit]
Questioner -- volavka, 09:50:23 11/17/03 Mon

Just hold the au shares, this shake out could last several days because of roll over and option expire.

The biggest news was that on Saturday the c.b.o.t. announced work with china on overseas exchange.

This is what greenspan ment about going overseas.
China is developing into a massive commodity mkt and will suck up everything, all thru asia.
There will be huge shifts in demand for raw materials.
Metals/commodities are now in long term bull mkt.
Gold and silver are so undervalued that I still expect 650 before years end.
If by chance California is hit more demand.
Trust no one and do your D.D.

[Edit]
Fred -- volavka, 09:43:45 11/17/03 Mon

Hope not but the wave patterns call for drastic move down from Alaska.

[Edit]
champagne -- number six, 09:21:44 11/17/03 Mon

according to ino.com, gold hit 400 today.

[Edit]
Volavka -- Frisco Fred, 09:01:28 11/17/03 Mon


Could the California event maybe occur in Sacramento today?

[Edit]
@volavka -- Questioner, 08:54:40 11/17/03 Mon

The junior golds are ignoring the bullion price drop. Big time accumulation under way. The trend will be unstoppable.
Like your thoughts on APLL. I also like NPG.V when this one get discovered it should do well too! Due you own due diligence. What do you know about earth shaking events in California, can you be more specific?

Thanks, Questioner

[Edit]
Buying between 382/383 -- volavka, 08:50:51 11/17/03 Mon

in dec, start buying 380 thru 383 gift.

[Edit]
stops cleaned -- volavka, 08:39:33 11/17/03 Mon

put um in we take um out.
fool and his/her money soon parted.

[Edit]
Morgan Stanley -- volavka, 08:07:50 11/17/03 Mon

Sheriff: We don't need no stinkin badges.

We'd never cheat nobody in the Gold community.

[Edit]
Sheriff -- volavka, 07:44:34 11/17/03 Mon

Head um up move um out.
Rawhide.

You've got beef moving to mkt not even going into fedder lots.
You want some inflation, you've seen nothing yet.
Try some kobi beef.

42 million hispanics in u.s.
Got spanish goats...

[Edit]
Sheriff -- volavka, 07:43:41 11/17/03 Mon

Head um up move um out.
Rawhide.

You've got beef moving to mkt not even going into fedder lots.
You want some inflation, you've seen nothing yet.
Try some kobi beef.

42 million hispanics in u.s.
Got spanish goats...

[Edit]
re factions -- number six, 07:26:00 11/17/03 Mon

Good post qwerty. See no obvious reasons to think any of the factions are "good guys." I doubt good guys accumulate much influence in our sad day & age. Some stars do, no doubt. But broadly, I would guess there's many competing factions within hornets nests such as New York, or London or Washington.. or Beijing come to think of it. And none of them strike me as being pure virtuous blessed etc.

I think the power structures of human societies have always been fairly f'd up fundamentally, so I'm one of the few (un)fortunates who can conceive and see the world as darkly as you do, mate. :)

Don't let the bastards grind you down. It's still the best universe we've ever been to.

[Edit]
"Nature" is "fighting" also... -- OmarD, 07:23:35 11/17/03 Mon

http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/releases/20031031LeishmaniasisWeb.cfm


Sand Flies Active—and Dangerous—in Iraq
News & Media - News Releases

Service members in Iraq who fail to follow preventive measures risk the bite of the tiny but fearsome sand fly. It's peak season for these pests through the end of November, and their bite can carry a disease called leishmaniasis.

There are two kinds of leishmaniasis—cutaneous and visceral.

People who get the cutaneous form have one or more sores on their skin that do not heal after several weeks. The sores form on the skin several weeks or more after an infected sand fly bites. The sores initially appear as papules or bumps on the skin, but then form an open, flat, circular sore with raised edges. Sometimes they have a scab, and sometimes they hurt. Untreated, the skin sores can last for years and leave permanent scars, but are rarely life threatening.

Visceral leishmaniasis, on the other hand, is a much more serious infection of the liver, spleen and other internal organs that can be fatal if not treated. People who get the visceral form of the disease become ill several weeks up to six months after becoming infected. They will usually have high fever, weight loss, and an enlarged spleen and liver. They also have other symptoms that show up in blood tests (such as anemia, low white cell count and low platelet count).

Leishmaniais occurs in tropical areas around the world. It is very common in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries in Southwest Asia.

To date, 52 cases of cutaneous leishmaniasis have been reported in DOD over the last two years. All of the patients were infected in Southwest Asia; all but two spent at least some time in Iraq. There have been no cases of visceral leishmaniasis detected so far.

There is no vaccine and no medication that protects against leishmaniasis.

Detailed information about prevention is available from the U.S. Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine.

----

Leishmaniasis is something nearly every resident of Iraq (lower level regions) - eventually get. (most get when young) Evidenced by visible "scars" usually on face. It is very apparent to all that have any experience in region.

Evidence of the "visceral form" may not show up for months or years after infection.

Like the "dueling scars" of old, expect to see it on many of returning troops. There are certain to many more cases then DOD "reporting." --- Like "Schistosomiasis" (also known in region) there is no cure and is an eventual death sentence.

If we cannot kill ourselves off fast enough..."Nature" is always standing right there to help us out.

No telling what else our "troops" bringing home to every corner of America. (Rif fever, Eubola, lymphatic filariasis, or elephantiasis, and onchocerciasis) - Nature's own WMD's - spread of which could easily be helped along, with anyone having an interest in doing so.

Eventual plan to move from heavily populated areas may prove to be prudent.


OmarD


[Edit]
This is normal, stop running -- volavka, 07:10:56 11/17/03 Mon

shake and bake.

[Edit]
This is normal, stop running -- volavka, 07:10:03 11/17/03 Mon

shake and bake.

[Edit]
Expect major shaker -- volavka, 05:03:40 11/17/03 Mon

West coast should get hit with massive earth quake.

[Edit]
This "War" is lost. -- OmarD, 04:21:27 11/17/03 Mon

The establishment (at least on periphery) is beginning to wake up to fact that it is the US$ that is under attack...the real target of 9/11 and other post New York assaults...and of course, our government has fallen completely into attacker's hands, taking every possible step to insure their success.

"Winning" the "War on Terrorism" is more hopeless now then ever. Like all the other US Govt "Wars" (on "poverty," "homeless," "drugs," etc. etc.) - mindless, meaningless, insincere, dishonest political chatter and excuse to bring home some "bacon" to local constituents...

The American voter, consumer, worker will soon begin to see the direct result of every US bomb dropped, soldier deployed, maimed, killed in rising prices (falling value of the fiat his labor is traded for)


(out of "Forbes" this am)


Euro upbeat, dollar under pressure on Mideast unrest
Reuters, 11.16.03, 8:07 PM ET

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/retirement/newswire/2003/11/16/rtr1149780.html



"...London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper said on Sunday -- early Monday morning in Asia -- it had received a statement from al Qaeda claiming responsibility for attacks on two Istanbul synagogues that killed at least 23 people.

Suicide bombers driving two vans loaded with explosives carried out the attacks on Saturday.

"Since the news about the al Qaeda statement, the dollar has come under fresh pressure this morning," said Junya Tanase, forex strategist at JP Morgan Chase in Tokyo..."


----

"Ostrich like" savers have been feeling the pinch for some time. Those having to live of the proceeds of such "savings" know well already, they are on the path to the "natural state" of misery and starvation. - where, in fact, we are all headed in near future. - A slippery slope of increasing angle, from which there is no escape except thru the return to use of "real" money and getting free of all ties to fiat toxic waste.

The "war" is lost.

Most do not know it yet.

They will soon, on every visit to a gas station or supermarket. (at least those not already on welfare).

GWB, Wall Street & AllenG (FED) have fingers in dike...but are about to be overwhelmed.

Getting real "ugly" soon.

Is time to start considering "terms of surrender"...best to do so while one still has a choice...

A few I would offer...at least for start...

(1) Remove Fed.
(2) War/Economic Crime Trials for all present and past living politicians.
(3) Return to honest money.
(4) Immediate return of all foreign based troops and unilateral self destruction of all WMD's.

Failure to "consider" or not offer up, will result in future "Genghis Khan" type "retribution" on citizens of this nation.


"Chicken Little" OmarD



[Edit]
Current POG, POS, POP & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 02:34:03 11/17/03 Mon

US$/POGUS$/POSEURO/POGU$D




LbS/POG London Fix LbS/POS



PLAT
PALL


[Edit]
Happy Thanksgiving -- $hifty, 00:33:56 11/17/03 Mon

I hope this works !




[Edit]
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 00:09:11 11/17/03 Mon

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,930.26 + Dow 9,768.68 = 11,698.94 divide by 2 = 5,849.47 Ponzi

Down 40.79 from last week.

Thanks for the link RossL !

This week should be quite entertaining !

Go GATA !

Go GOLD !

Go Comets !

$hifty



[Edit]
Human Rights -- Sojourner, 23:36:49 11/16/03 Sun


Hey, don't we remove dictators for human rights abuses?

AP News 11/17/03 - Todd Pitman
"U.S. Renews Ties With Repressive Equatorial Guinea - Rich in Oil, Poor in Human Rights"

Our embassy has been closed there for eight years but now we are going to be friends. Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil.

[Edit]
@All -- Sojourner, 21:39:30 11/16/03 Sun


If you haven't already read "Surprising Roadblocks for the U.S. in Iraq", it is worth the time -----http://www.pinr.com (well, it was to me anyway.)

Sojo

[Edit]
Faction 2 -- qwerty, 21:26:07 11/16/03 Sun

>even if the factions were real, it would be pretty easy to difficult to conclude both are the "bad guys"

i meant

even if the factions were real, it would be pretty easy to conclude both are the "bad guys"

[Edit]
Faction 2 -- qwerty, 21:24:25 11/16/03 Sun

The stuff about Faction 1 vs Faction 2 is pretty absurd

It's wishing for the "good guys" to save us

even if the factions were real, it would be pretty easy to difficult to conclude both are the "bad guys"

It's always conceivable that some other faction of entities exists but i doubt they would be able to make themselves known through the media

not holding my breath waiting to be saved by some Faction

[Edit]
Faction 2: It's time to put up or shut up! -- Tree in the Forest, 20:56:37 11/16/03 Sun

I had the "privilege" of viewing the George C. Marshall Foundation Dinner on CSPAN last nite. One of many foundations controlled by the nefarious David Rockefeller. He was there, presenting an award to Secretary of State Colin Powell amid the spewing of hypocritical platitudes about greatness, patriotism, courage et cetera ad nauseum. The psychopath and his puppet... CFR /NWO socialist cronies forever. Do these traitors actually believe the crap they vomit up? Do they expect us to believe it? And where is Faction 2 in all of this? Sitting on the side lines like an impotent eunuch. All talk, no action. They don't even have the power to mount an attack to push gold through the roof. Gold is sitting there going sideways below its impenetrable $400 limit set by the Rockefeller Mafia.
FACTION 2: SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!!

[Edit]
Lately, My Most Successful Work.......... -- auspec, 19:07:41 11/16/03 Sun

............has been done while sleeping. Tis tough work, for sure, but someone HAS to do it.

From Sinclair's www.jsmineset:

Gold Higher, Euro Up In Asia

Author: Jim Sinclair





The Euro is presently quite strong, trading at 1.1841 versus a close in the New York cash market of 1.1763.



Gold is trading at $399.00 bid which is1.40 over the New York cash market closing bid. The game Monday AM on the Comex is going to be the action in December 400 gold calls as there are still well over 14,000 options in place.

The bad news for Andy’s Army is that open interest, which they have labeled “the public,” is not the public unless you put people like Trader Dan and me in that category.

I actually wonder if 44 years of metal trading experience and having been recognized as the largest and leading gold trader from 1968 until I bailed out in early 1980 gives me any status in Andy’s commercial elitist eyes. Probably not!

As gold trades at $400, you can expect a need to buy 8,000 to 10,000 Comex gold contracts
(about 2 days normal trading volume) or their equivalent in the cash market to balance the risk of those who have written the many December 400 Call options as mostly uncovered or just partially ratio spread and therefore are heavily short.

At $400, to limit the risk of having written a December 400 Call you would need to buy long one Comex gold contract or the equivalent gold for every Call you wrote. Simply stated, you would need one ounce of gold long for each ounce of gold short.

Gold has every possibility of going to $433 in an instant. The door of bullish probability numbers is still wide open. Furthermore, a close above that level ($433) will land $500 directly in the face of Andy’s short of gold army.

Since we are pros Andy, don’t think you can play with our heads. My emotions died a long time ago when it comes to trading I am ready to play this right into maturity because I love risk. Risk is my food, my fun - and my game.

Now for the Community, this game is a pro’s game. You can enjoy the battle from the sidelines by doing your job which is nothing at all. Please do not involve yourself now in a Call option that has only a few days left to live.

However, you will benefit from the outrageous ego of these commercial traders who made the greatest mistake a trader can make. They believed their own spin and have spun out of control into losses of Titanic proportions.


END

Pleasant dreams!

P.S. Sinclair's "Andy" is a Harpo Marx look and act-alike. Adding insult to injury is my specialty.........smile.

[Edit]
@All -- dotti, 15:09:19 11/16/03 Sun

Well. Here I am. Waiting on gold to open wherever it opens first on Sunday night. Trying to prepare myself for the possibility of a heavy hit--but expecting the rout to continue.

I just read an article about inflation in China. Geez. Seems like that is also very, very positive for gold. I mentioned today that I wished I had more money to spend on gold/shares/etc. My friend said, "Now is a bad time to buy gold." I thought I knew what he meant, but later asked, just to confirm. "Well. I don't know how much higher it will go." Okay. Well, that's it.

If I get the nerve to dip into the juniors again, anybody got one that they would put above all the others? Volavka, what is that one that you recommended, then it ran so well? appl or apll or something like that? Still a good investment or is something else more appealing now?

I saaw on another board that calvf's chart shows a breakout now. Just when I get ready to give up on it. Man. I need to get a license for that contrarian view of mine. It was March of 2000 (2001?) when I decided that the stock market would go on forever because there would continue to be deposits to everybody's 401k's. Dropped like a rock from there.

Then again. I guess I shouldn't blame myself too much. With the markets being manipulated, who knows--AG and friends.

I had bad news in the studio today. A project that I am working on is taking way too long and I had a bad firing. Ugh. Now. If gold will just be in take-off mode tonight...all will be well with the world.

Anybody here?

dotti

[Edit]
The Blanchard Files -- goldustorm, 12:56:50 11/16/03 Sun

Let's keep looking at that trial too. Just don't let those lawyers mesmerize you.

[Edit]
@auspec, beesting, Netking -- goldus, 12:49:38 11/16/03 Sun

The NY times piece beesting just excerpted reminds me of Netking's story earlier in the week where Iraq problems are causing some to break ranks. Maybe there motive is to make a break for it before the public breaks their necks. And before war debt breaks the bank here, there and everywhere.
Auspec: "$400 POG will be mightily defended but the defense goes against the laws of nature. It will fail..." and
"There ineptness is only exceeded by their crookedness."
Spot on. Whether I open or look at the front page of this week's Barrons(multiple articles of concern to John Q and Suzie public), NY Times, USAtoday, today's local daily, FT(London) and others, I see this indescribable mutual fund thing getting serious initial press coupled with cautions about stock markets.
Rising gold coverage and Iraq war revelations almost beginning to sound like they originate overseas.
"Initial" press is just for now until the complexity can be comprehended and accepted somewhat, by the predominantly socialist journalists, columnists and editors. Getting closer. Better than the countless daily instances we're familiar with of inept AND corrupt reporting- censorship, disinformation(lies) and distraction(celebrity hype, spin, trivia, etc.)
Staff handpicked by media barons and serving grudgingly united factions of the global military/industrial complex must be implementing the latest phase of their hidden agenda.
Regards

[Edit]
Loss Of Confidence In Mutual Funds =="A Shift Of Capital"? -- beesting, 11:29:57 11/16/03 Sun

Scandal in the mutual fund industry!

Full news release can be read at this time by clicking here
(Snip)
Current and former officials say that just as the mutual fund industry
exploded in size — it now controls $7 trillion for 95 million investors — a
litany of regulatory lapses, political pressures and market forces
coincided to sharply undercut oversight.


The agency's inspection staff —which until earlier this year had a total of
350 examiners and support staff to monitor an industry of 13,000 mutual
funds and investment advisers — was never assigned to look for the
kinds of trading abuses that have recently come to light.
(Unsnip)
Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.

beesting comments:
When you look at the figures above the implications of this loss of confidence in Mutual Funds, may be mind boggle-ing!

The Why?

Because pension fund managers from every walk of life and from every part of the world have been intrusted to safe-guard funds which are systematically subtraced from the worlds paycheck recievers at pre-determined time intervals.(weeks, months,semi-annual, etc.)

These funds contain the paper money of 95 million individual investors who are counting on using it for retirement purposes.
When the investors feel their own individual re-tirement//investment[s] may be in jeopardy because of mis-management, severe pressure will be put on pension fund managers to "PRESERVE" existing and any future mass monies collected.(from investors)

If you were a pension fund manager and have been reading these Gold/Silver chat sites for a while and have also noticed the up-swings in Gold/Silver and related stocks and wanted desperately to keep your job, what would you do right about now?

Answer: Re-invest into the safest possible type of long term investment!.......And that would be physical Gold/Silver and all related "SAFE" Gold/Silver paper which would include major proven Gold/Silver mining shares.

Look for the major Gold/Silver mining companies shares to surge this week, as real funds are transferred out of some mutual funds and into the proven Gold mining companies shares.
The residual affect would be,"everything related to Gold/Silver" will surge, including the "Juniors".

We Watch Together.........beesting.

[Edit]
The Old Master Says We're Still Early W Gold -- auspec, 09:13:22 11/16/03 Sun

Fair use snippets borrowed from the flyboy at 321.
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/russell/russell111703.html

I believe that fortunes will be made in the years ahead by those who are now establishing major positions in gold and gold shares. I've said this a number times before, but I want to repeat it --

These primary moves last longer than anyone believes possible -- and they take the items higher than anyone thinks possible. We're now in a primary bull market in gold.

I believe gold (and very probably silver) will make fortunes for those who now take major positions in the precious metals.

stocks themselves, which if course, they never do.

So this is my position -- I believe gold below and even somewhat above 400 dollars an ounce is dirt cheap. In view of the amount of Fed-generated fiat paper that will have to be churned out in coming years (it will be in the multi-trillions of dollars), gold is the cheapest thing around. The US government, states, cities, corporations and individuals are currently loaded with $32 trillion in debt. On top of that, the US government has additional unfunded liabilities of around $44 trillion, all of which will have to financed.

For these reasons, it's my thesis that gold at $400 an ounce is ridiculously cheap. As a comparison, gold today is less than half the price it was at its 1980 high.

I believe three or four or five years from now we'll look back at today's price of $400 dollar gold and ask ourselves, "Where the devil were we? What were we thinking about? Gold at $400 was cheaper than dirt. Why didn't we recognize this back in the year 2003?"

As I see it, this is one of those rare times in an investor's life when he can buy an undervalued asset at a bargain price. This is a time when you can buy real money with fiat paper. At this time you can buy real money, gold, with "junk" fiat paper which is created "out of thin air" by the Federal Reserve.

Big profits have already been made by those who bought gold and gold shares two or three years ago. But that is nothing compared with what I see ahead -- as the bull market in gold moves on. We are now in the accumulation phase of the gold bull market, This is the phase where seasoned, knowledgeable investors build their positions -- even while the public and most neophyte "investors" are either ignorant of what's happening or at a time when the public actually dislikes the very product which could make them a future fortune.

END

Comment: Nothing more to say.

[Edit]
Anti-semitism or the Truth? -- Einstein, 09:00:40 11/16/03 Sun

You'll be the judge:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

[Edit]
@golddustorm -- Questioner, 22:44:09 11/15/03 Sat

Are you inferring the dialectic is at work here or is it the principle that things be come their opposite over time?

[Edit]
@auspec- -- goldus, 22:06:47 11/15/03 Sat

Thank you for replying. I will read and respond to your latest smorgasborg tomorrow as I have had to reply to numerous posts and requests at GE well beyond my bedtime. Good night!
To: HistoryStudent (GE Forum) - by goldus- 11/15/03
Re: Ms 64 common-date Saints. Been there, done that! Traded 'em for raw Au and BU(some BU+) Saints and Lib's a few years ago.
Newbies need to know that variety is the spice of life, but numismatics may be in a bubble now or shortly.
And almost a motto of numismatists and high-end coin dealers is the widely heard advice: "Buy the best coin you can afford."
Also: "Assemble sets, using a favorite theme, or by dates or types, with the best examples you can afford."
Even done in moderation, after study, with due diligence, etc., one man's rarity will be seen as another man's trinket, more and more, if without commensurate intrinsic value, IMO.
If this opinion is premature or untrue, then the standard numismatic advice is without doubt, to buy the six-figure or highest priced coin or coins you can afford, for maximum performance.

[Edit]
Goldus -- auspec, 21:26:38 11/15/03 Sat

Blanchard, now, deserves the benefit of the doubt. They are the ultimate wild card at this point...........no down side.

$400 seems like such a critical point at this particular point in time, but we must remember how incredibly short sighted Americans actually are, no? In the long range this is a mere snapshot {which uses up some silver.......smile} in time. $400 POG will be mightily defended but the defense goes against the laws of nature. It will fail, plain and simple. Traders may benefit from the defense but investors will profit from the ultimate upside scenario. Would you really like to put money on the the competence of Green$pandex, Bush and whoever the current Sec of Treas happens to be........??? {That is the funniest thing I've ever written...........Chuckle, smirk, smarm.} What a bunch of short sighted LOOSERS!!! If you EVER wanted to go short a market...........these are the folks on the other side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When, in your lifetime, do you expect to see national leaders more disconnected with reality?? Not likely to happen........bless his poor and simple soul.

Is that "mean" as Sinclair complains? Only if you are positioned so far from reality that the truth hurts. The truth is actually perceived as being "mean" to those with eyes wide closed. Some of us know the one who opens and closes eyes............that is historical as well as spiritual. Just the facts, Mam.

I'm tempted to take a few profits in the near future, but I also know that the current "froth" is really NOT that excessive. Until I see the ENEMY strike forth with a meaningful and lasting counter attack I'll assume they're mostly impotent. Feces, they can't even take gold down for more than 7-10 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of klowns. Contrived and failed markets. Their ineptness is only exceeded by their crookedness. Hold strong during the coming "tensions" and you will be awarded accordingly. These guys are almost, but not quite, pitiful.

Anoche.

a

[Edit]
@auspec -- goldus, 20:16:00 11/15/03 Sat

Re: "...the possibility of having more than one set of skeletons hauled from the closet." Yes! No bones about it, D.J. is good.
I hope this Blanchard story will not go bone dry. Even one set of skeletons will suit me. Beggars can't be choosers.

[Edit]
Tumbleweed second-draftin' along -- goldus(torm), 20:00:26 11/15/03 Sat

Blanchard bows before bullion

Jim Blanchard's company was sold several years back to a high net-worth trading group. They were a different breed that aquired the greatest, most high-profile gold dealership in the U.S., at a time when other high-rollers were planning to roll in the inevitable gains of the suppressed gold market. Connected, they were also sly bullion turncoats-
When last year's Blanchard news and publicity releases disavowed allegiance to J. Blachard's old mainstay- bullion coins- and promoted numismatic coins exclusively and emphatically for it's clientele, red strobes were flashing at we Gold Watchers.
"How can this be?", we said. "One gold coin will take me a year to afford, and that's the down payment." Some turned to silver or stocks.
But this strange news was largely forgotten over time amidst gold's wild gyrations towards $400 and back again, as Iraq was seized, and as wonders never ceased geopolitically and economically.
But small wonder to those with the greatest vested interests in gold such as Barrick, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Deutschebank, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Mitsui, Commerzbank, other steroidal derivative builders and imposing banana republics.
While these helped orchestrate alternating gold volatility and lifelessness, they had Blanchard and various hedging miners and their spokesman in tow. Like the circus clown on catapult, the leverage is on one side of the game leaving the other holding the overnight bag.
Who could beat them a their own game as they mainstreamed gold price alibis and straw men, including six-figure Blanchard numismatic wonders?
A shared agenda seems why Blanchard's lawsuit has been allowed to proceed to this point, the critical "discovery" phase. Where more than a few scapegoats will be on stage if the show must go on as it's billed.
Not to give the show away but there could be some sorting of the sheep from the goats.

[Edit]
Blanchard: heroes or operatives? -- Goldustorm, 19:14:49 11/15/03 Sat

Jim Blanchard's company was sold several years back to a high net-worth trading group. They were a different breed that aquired the greatest, most high-profile gold dealership in the U.S., at a time when other high-rollers were planning to roll in the inevitable gains of the suppressed gold market. Connected, they were also sly bullion turncoats-
When last year's Blanchard news and publicity releases disavowed allegiance to J. Blachard's old mainstay- bullion coins- and promoted numismatic coins exclusively and emphatically for it's clientele, red strobes were flashing at we Gold Watchers.
"How can this be?", we said, until the news was crowded out by gold's wild gyrations as it nearly overtook $400, as Iraq was seized, and wonders never ceased geopolitically and economically. Puzzling, except to those with the greatest vested interests in gold such as Barrick, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Deutschebank, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Mitsui, Commerzbank, other derivative-dependent pyramid pimps and banana republics.
Blanchard too, who helped orchestrate alternating gold volatility and lifelessness! Who helped promote the mainstream alibis and straw men, including six-figure numismatic wonders.
This mutual agenda is THE reason why Blanchard's lawsuit has been allowed to proceed to this point, the critical "discovery" phase, where more than a few scapegoats will be on stage if the show must go on as it's billed.
Not to give the show away but there could be some sorting of the sheep from the goats.

[Edit]
dotti re options -- auspec, 15:36:06 11/15/03 Sat

The following snippets are from Dan Joubert from LeMet, hopefully will help clarify the gold options issue. Fair use borrowing..........educational purposes:

We know that open interest on Comex gold contracts has been at record levels and is holding up well under severe selling pressure, even though a large open interest has traditionally been an indication of increasing vulnerability and instability. It might be that the holders of long contracts have hedged themselves by buying put options, while the holders of short contracts have bought call options as security against a spike in the price.

The extent of the options market is staggering – 460 000 calls and 290 000 puts. At 100 ozz per option, there are potential calls on 46 million ounces of gold – equal to over 1360 tons of gold or half of annual mine production. If the gold price should spike to say over $400 before the December option expiry, so that the majority of these options kicks in, there will be chaos in the market with financial blood running knee-deep in the pits. Even if this happens later, after expiry of the near term options, the effect should still be earthshaking – and not only for the bullion market, as the waves that result from such a massive set of new claims on gold will crash heavily onto other markets, and financial institutions as well.

Waiting in the background and perhaps soon to stoke the fires in the gold engine room is the Blanchard suit against Barrick and JPM which is on the verge of going into discovery – and thereby raising the possibility of hauling more than just one set of skeletons from the closet.

Interesting weeks ahead – with the tug of war heating up and the probability of gold really breaking loose improving almost day by day. Exciting times really, except if one were on the wrong side of the market and therefore feared what would come your way if gold broke above $400 and stormed ahead.

END

[Edit]
Prechter -- RossL, 14:26:43 11/15/03 Sat

I have a lot of respect for Prechter and his work, and I have read two of his books. Well, actually I only made it about halfway through the second one, "The Wave Principle Of Human Social Behavior".

The Elliott wave principle is intriguing and has some merit... but... we are a long way from using it to predict price movements in stocks and commodities. It's easy to look at a chart in retrospect and pick out 5 waves up and 3 waves down. However, just take a look at the wave practitioners who post at the other TA oriented web sites. They have an ongoing discussion on where we are in the wave, grand cycle, sub-wave wavelet, etc. They all disagree with each other and Prechter. IMHO it would be a mistake to base trading decisions on wave theory alone. Just look at Prechter, his followers have missed out on buying a lot of PMs and PM stocks on the cheap. Isn't it much easier to just follow the trend and look for signals on when the trend changes? Without a gazillion rules on counting ebbs and flows?

Waving along...

[Edit]
woody -- prechter, 11:35:35 11/15/03 Sat

according to prechter, your graph would be just a little bull market within a big bear market for gold

this is good for us

just think of the power behind gold when the crowd jumps in

it will take at least a few years

it'll be like a 50 inch diameter water pipe flowing into a half inch pipe

it's mind boggling to think of the enormous amount of upward pressure

and there will be money from the general public all over the world too

it'll probably make the dow, s&p and nasdaq bull market look minor in comparison

i don't like to be over optimistic about gold or any investment but i can see the same ponzi game being played in gold & silver ... wallstreet will move in and help make that happen ... few really care about the enormous p/e ratios ... it's just a big casino ... there will be enormous corrections to clean the pockets of the naive investor along the way ... maybe most of us will not go along for the entire ride because of that ...

i think gold will go above 800 again and maybe that will be the first correction before heading over a thousand ... i know if i was going to scare the market bug time, i would definitely make it above the previous high ... a lot of stops will be around there to create a huge down draft

there will be so much money looking for a home, it won't take much of that total money

over the next couple years, the reserves of major mines and the central banks will be depleted further ...

on a technical basis, the base on that gold bowl is really enormous

maybe gold as an investment will be more like yellowstone park erupting ... the central banks will need to deplete their reserves even more to keep that from happening ... it is conceivable that demand could wipe out their reserves in a relatively short time

it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the years to come

[Edit]
Woo hoo -- Woody, 20:54:11 11/14/03 Fri




[Edit]
"Pucker Factor" -- OmarD, 08:47:17 11/14/03 Fri

Who would have ever guessed?!!! -- From the headlines this AM on the greatest paper pushers in media today..."CBS MarketWatch"


Where the action is
Commentary: Gold is the best and safest investment

By Mary Anne & Pamela Aden, The Aden Forecast
Last Update: 11:06 AM ET Nov. 14, 2003


SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (Aden) -- Gold is currently hitting a new 71/2 year bull market high and it's reinforcing a solid bull market. Gold shares, platinum, copper and silver also shot up, backing up the bull market.


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?guid=%7BB2B77064-8F0D-4953-91FE-921F4361DEB0%7D&siteid=myyahoo&dist=myyahoo

---

Must have taken some "hard swallowing" & "gritting of teeth" to get these guys to post this.

Old adage bout a ball peen hammer and knitting needle re; "pucker factor" - taking on new level of significance for many...

"Wallowing" along happily in that "golden glow"...

Rgds,

OmarD




[Edit]
Skookum_Jim -- Sojourner, 08:07:56 11/14/03 Fri


Great one!!! Good illustration of what I did not understand for years - an 8 o'clocker and a
12 o'clocker.

Thanks,
Sojo

[Edit]
Good Morning, All. Happy Friday!! -- dotti, 07:13:38 11/14/03 Fri

Volavka, thanks. $6 would be nice. I am very appreciative of your sharing your knowledge!

I had a fairly extensive conversation with a RE attorney last night. He had retired, but came out of retirement after losing $200k in the stock market. He says the RE market is looking like it did prior to 1978-82. People are refinancing based on the increased values of their homes. Ethical appraisers that he talks with refuse to give the inflated values and lose business because of it. People are mortgaging to the hilt, then “using up” the money. He says that it is typical of the mortgage industry that no companies are over 10 years old. They make their money then get out. Just as a means of nudging him along, I said, “Well. So, who gets hurt?” His reply was that we all have to pay for it, meaning government bailout. I countered—again just nudging him a bit—“So what. The government is already this deep in debt!” He looked stunned.

My point is that we are not paying for it with our taxes—our government is just writing IOUs for it. If we paid taxes every year in an amount equal to what the government had spent in the previous year—every person paying their portion of whatever amount it was (this is a hypothetical, of course!), then he would be correct. As it is, we are not a pay-as-you-go society. We avoid logical consequences. If lenders make bad loans—and right now there has to be a trainload of bad paper out there—where are the consequences? Ethical appraisers may be driven out of business. Lenders just follow whatever rules are set for them so that they can sell the paper. I don’t know a lot about the bundling processes they’re using now, but as I understand it, it is based on the concept that only a small percentage of loans will fail. In a “normal” market that would be true. But. If we have a RE bubble—and I think we do—then whoever is holding the paper is in severe jeopardy. I guess that would be Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack—and their shareholders???

It brings me to your question, Big Au: “ Are these folks REALLY this clueless? Can they slip a TRILLION Dollar shortfall by middle America?”

It’s all Monopoly money. It’s not real. It’s just imaginary. It will never have to be repaid. There are no consequences to this "debt".

(BTW, wasn’t it just a few years back when the debt topped $1 trillion?)

I know this is elementary, but I would like to have a better understanding the significance of this statement: “Gold call options, @ $400 and above...........closing in the money a week from now?? There are LOTS!!”

I know that a "call" gives somebody the option to buy gold at a certain price--in this case $400. Does this mean that the smart money is betting that gold will be well over $400 a week from now?

ET, sounds like your plate is pretty full. Good to have your words of encouragement:

“auspec, dotti - good to hear from both of you. Don't lose faith in the future, my friends. The entire world is breaking the shackles of big government socialism/fascism. Capitalism is breaking loose all over. Rejoice!”

I think we are facing a “rebirth” of sorts in this world. I think it may be “breach”. Delivery may be difficult, painful, perhaps even fatal.

Oops. You said Rejoice, didn’t you? Okay.

I hope today is exciting for us bugs. Every time that I look at the POG, I try to prepare myself for down $14. So far, so good. Of course, if that does appear, I just tell myself, that gives you a little more time to try to get a little more accumulation. Always the optimist!

Take care, All.

dotti

[Edit]
Skookum_Jim -- mini, 06:14:16 11/14/03 Fri

Thanks! That is hilarious! My day is now off on the right foot.

[Edit]
For those that still "browse" that other forum -- Skookum_Jim, 04:52:20 11/14/03 Fri

"Whew..."




Learned this lesson more then once...

Skookum_Jim

[Edit]
sorry for the extra d -- Shifty, 00:22:18 11/14/03 Fri

:-)

[Edit]
Ford Add ! -- $hifty, 00:19:46 11/14/03 Fri

check out the Ford add at www.the-eviltwin.co.uk click new highlights then clip one.

keep your eye on the bird !

[Edit]
"like trying to herd cats".. LOL.. -- CHARTs, 23:42:17 11/13/03 Thu

US$/POGUS$/POSEURO/POGU$D




LbS/POG London Fix LbS/POS



PLAT
PALL


[Edit]
j-man, auspec, dotti -- ET, 17:31:09 11/13/03 Thu

Hey j-man, auspec, dotti!

j-man, you're right, it is difficult to allocate time. I'm trying to learn the Microsoft .NET Framework platform and it's very time consuming. BTW - Microsoft's new platform combines the traditional Windows-based user interface (Microsoft Office, for instance), that works with local and network users, with an equally user-friendly, secure Web-based interface. This allows so-called unmanaged users (using a browser, for instance), the ability to run a managed program as if they are on the local network. Properly implemented, this will dramatically lower business costs (primarily in information transportation and availability costs), as well as further decentralize the worldwide economy. On top of all that, it is a very cheap solution to implement. Dinosaur institutions are about to fall way behind. You wrote:

"In the long run you may be correct, but tyrannies are built on perceived emergencies -- like the ones I think we all suspect are just over the hill."

There certainly is an emergency just over the hill. They are losing control of their money, and that perception of confidence is the source of their power. Without money that is perceived as valuable, they're in trouble, as well as anyone that depends on their system sustaining itself. I've always thought a gold standard was in our future and certainly it's the worst thing that could happen to the current financial system, but the best thing that could happen for economic freedom which would raise all boats.

Attempts at successfully implementing tyranny during the coming emergency will depend on layers upon layers of central planning and fortunately the economy is becoming more decentralized every day. That is the world they're faced with trying to control and it will be like trying to herd cats. I really don't believe this is going to be much of a problem at all. Saving your capital would seem to be a much more worrisome project.

auspec, dotti - good to hear from both of you. Don't lose faith in the future, my friends. The entire world is breaking the shackles of big government socialism/fascism. Capitalism is breaking loose all over. Rejoice!

[Edit]
Don't follow The Piper -- Contrary Investor, 17:11:32 11/13/03 Thu

. . . do not do what "seems right" . . . don't follow the pack . . . buy gold in gloom . . . sell gold in boom . . .when every person say buy long now, contrary investor say sell short now!

[Edit]
RMan via Midas -- auspec, 16:49:06 11/13/03 Thu

The master RR man at his best:

November 12, 2003 -- Does anyone understand or realize what's going on? Check this out.

The Bush administration says that next years federal budget deficit will be $500 billion, better known at half a trillion dollars. Then add the $87 billion that Congress just OK'd to partly cover the cost of Afghanistan and Iraq. OK, that puts the deficit a $587 billion. But this doesn't count the $217 billion that the government is borrowing from the Social Security trust. That takes the deficit to $804 billion. Then there's the added cost of the tax cuts, prescription drugs and other special expenses and items, and you're talking about an actual deficit of probably over $1 trillion dollars.

A lot of that mind-blowing deficit will be "financed" by fiat dollars, dollars created out of nothing by an obliging Fed (to be honest, Greenspan did warn about the federal deficit).

The mind turns to real money -- gold. All the gold mined in the history of the world amounts to about $1.4 trillion. And here's the US government spending an amount equal to 70% of that gold just the single year 2004. And then we have the years 2005 and 2006 to worry about.

How wild can it get? In the next few years I believe we are going to see just how wild it can get! My advice to my loyal subscribers is that "You better own some gold."…

END

Comment: Are these folks REALLY this clueless? Can they slip a TRILLION Dollar shortfall by middle America?

Gold call options, @ $400 and above...........closing in the money a week from now?? There are LOTS!!

Doubtful...........if they do it will require a battle for the ages. The safe bet is w the HOUSE {Please, please {!} prove me WRONG}

Reprint w permission

[Edit]
Dotti -- volavka, 14:40:40 11/13/03 Thu

maybe this will help you with calvf:

support @ .23

resistance to overcome:
.2310
.24
.25
.2550
.2750
.30
.3940

Once these levels fall a straight shot to
.62
.90
1.36
2.12
3.36
then 6.00

[Edit]
Dotti -- volavka, 14:39:07 11/13/03 Thu

maybe this will help you with calvf:

support @ .23

resistance to overcome:
.2310
.24
.25
.2550
.2750
.30
.3940

Once these levels fall a straight shot to
.62
.90
1.36
2.12
3.36
then 6.00

[Edit]
Bugs -- volavka, 14:20:29 11/13/03 Thu

starting to crawl out of formation.

guard the water.

[Edit]
Silver - Butler -- Netking, 09:33:43 11/13/03 Thu

UPDATE ON WAREHOUSE STOCKS By Theodore Butler

http://www.investmentrarities.com/11-11-03.html

Snippet:

"...The reported silver inventories in COMEX-licensed depositories have increased noticeably in the past few weeks, up some 12 million ounces to a total of over 118 million ounces. This is the largest amount of silver in these warehouses since 1998. As such, it has raised questions in people's minds about the true supply/demand situation. Let's see if we can analyze COMEX silver inventories objectively......"

[Edit]
@volavka -- dotti, 08:21:13 11/13/03 Thu

Looks like you and I are the only two "morning people" here at ER.

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the December contract. Really beeg shu, eh?

We watch together--except that I will be in the studio for a couple of hours now! LOL

Can't stay away from this stuff. Just too exciting. I've been waiting for this for 25 years.

Oh, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

dotti

[Edit]
Da Bulls Da Bears Da Depants -- volavka, 08:03:02 11/13/03 Thu

Grown man Depants to the public.

Open interest in dec contract showing potential of delivery.

You have no idea what this could do to Gold.

Lock and Load.

[Edit]
Don't forget -- volavka, 05:53:12 11/13/03 Thu

to throw a gold kilo in the salvation bucket this year.

[Edit]
@HBM, ET, et al -- dotti, 05:10:56 11/13/03 Thu

HBM, good to see you here. I guess that you're saying that first of all, this is no unexpected by people who watch the equities markets and second that the PTB will not allow Ford to fail. Therefore, it is all just a big yawn.

That makes sense. Thanks.

ET, I found your views refreshing and based in logic. I hope that you are right, but Jman, it seems, does have a bit of history on his side--his views do, that is.

Always good to see you here, Big AU(shill).

An economic winter, I think I could handle where I am--be able to get food and water, anyway. Tyranny. That's another thing, entirely.

BTW, maybe the 911 crew are wise to our government and won't use same tactic again. All they really have to do is sink the dollar in favor of gold. The world has turned against the war for oil program. The (US) home team is in lossa trouble. If the Saudis and others sell dollars for gold--and why wouldn't they?--we won't be able to field a team.

Re: Midas, Saudi bank: Others see this as a new war effort? US is certainly ripe for defeat in this area. Would we attack Saudi Arabia? I'll bet the minions of the PTB were up all night. But. The PTB slept. They are on the winning side--always. The world is a chess match for them.

Just musin' again.

dotti

[Edit]
Seriously -- auspec, 04:28:47 11/13/03 Thu

Always nice to have ET back aboard, even if it's a short time. His faith in the free markets being the ultimate victor is a breath of fresh air.

Thanks, ET, I pray you're right!

[Edit]
A break in the ranks? -- Netking, 23:44:54 11/12/03 Wed

London, Nov. 12 (Reuters): Britain, Washington’s staunchest ally in the war in Iraq, admitted today to differences with its partner over how to tackle the nuclear ambitions of Iran. While the US reacted quickly and harshly to an International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) report which said Tehran had dabbled in activities possibly linked to atom bomb-making, British foreign secretary Jack Straw unusually broke ranks today to strike a milder note. “We should be reacting calmly to the latest report from the International Atomic Energy Agency,” he told BBC Radio.

Meanwhile...

The American administrator of Iraq says it's not easy to read the Iraqi public. Paul Bremer was responding to a report that indicates the U.S.-led coalition is losing support in Iraq. U.S. sources say the secret intelligence report warns that Iraqis are losing confidence in the occupation forces, and that more Iraqis may be turning to the resistance as a result. [fair use: www.iraqwar.ru ]

A disturbance in the force....the activity behind the scenes is at best frantic....and more pronounced than what is visible....expect a change of MO soon....

[Edit]
Current POG, POS, POP & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 22:13:47 11/12/03 Wed

US$/POGUS$/POSEURO/POGU$D




LbS/POG London Fix LbS/POS



PLAT
PALL


[Edit]
Hope you're right @ET -- journeyman, 20:26:21 11/12/03 Wed

Hi ET!

I haven't been posting much either - - - a big project and personal matters have been eating my time.

When it comes to the future, Yogi & Mises rule -- prediction is very difficult, especially of the future;>

In the long run you may be correct, but tyrannies are built on perceived emergencies -- like the ones I think we all suspect are just over the hill.

What I find most encouraging -- and very baffling to me -- is that the establishment hasn't pulled off (or allowed to be pulled-off) another 911 type event.

Well, time will tell, and as the subject says, hope you're right.

Regards,
j.

[Edit]
j-man -- ET, 20:01:55 11/12/03 Wed

Hey j-man - how you been doing?

I'm sorry I don't post much anymore, but I seem to have a difficult time keeping up on my reading, and it doesn't seem fair to engage someone in conversation if you can't keep up. I did happen to see your comment below and having always enjoyed your point of view I wanted to offer perhaps a different perspective.

"Yep! Cryptome (see below) isn't the first and won't be the last. Big brother is spooking the internet and everywhere else. USA Corp. is breaking their charter (The Constitution) big time. They're breaking their own laws. They''ve turned U.S.A. into a police state -- only a matter of time till they find enough thugs and Milgram-conditioned dupes to spread it around."

It seems to me that these types are losing the battle. USA Corp is having a difficult time with the financial realities and it seems to be reflected in the marketplace. Gold keeps climbing, their currency is sinking, their credit rating is headed south. In my opinion, this isn't the formula for a successful tyranny. They ain't bigger than the market.

They seem to be pricing themselves out of the market. As information technology spreads, although it may appear to be aiding these folks at times, in fact is creating a very decentralized environment for capitalism. It becomes increasingly difficult to extract the pound of flesh as well as increasingly dangerous for the extractor on the street. Witness Iraq.

I think things are headed in a very positive direction. It isn't going to happen overnight but economic freedom is becoming an increasingly more sought after service everywhere in the world. I think it's because of the technology. Capital is very mobile. I do believe higher living standards will be afforded those that seek economic freedom.

The free market rules. Get you a free market.

[Edit]
MIDASnippet -- auspec, 19:07:53 11/12/03 Wed

Con permiso:

A source tells me it is very possible (based on his past experience) the National Commercial Bank of Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) was a featured buyer today. If so, the cabal is in even deeper trouble. Historically, when this bank has jumped in on the long side of gold, bullion has REALLY moved higher.

*One more thing. The December open interest is more than 175,000 contracts. This is a larger number than the entire open interest was for many years. Should a significant number of longs ask for delivery, well, forget about it!

As well as gold performed, silver was the star of the day. Been waiting for silver to pop like this for a long time. The best news is there are no silver gaps to fill. For some reason silver tends to fill downside gaps.

******************************************

Comment: Silver escapes first, nada mas, nada menos. Before you close your eyes to sleep 2night........reflect on the fact that vast international gold buying will take over as you rest. Butts are being kicked.

[Edit]
dotti @ 16:13:44 11/12/03 Wed -- HBM, 19:05:29 11/12/03 Wed

Hi dotti

For what it's worth.

I've been sort of looking at the bad picture with Ford for quite a while now and have felt all along that we have another situation similar to Chrysler back about 20 to 25 years ago. All along I have thought "TO BIG TO FAIL"!

Ford is one of a select few companies which is not only too big for TPTB to allow to fail, but also a company very closely connected to the NWO gang.

HBM

[Edit]
@All -- dotti, 16:13:44 11/12/03 Wed

When S&P cuts Ford credit rating to just above junk status, why isn't that a red flag to the equities market?

This is a sincere question. I have seen credit ratings cut and it seems aas though people are impervious to it. Shouldn't it be a very severe warning? How are analysts reacting to it? Are they blase as well?

TIA.

dotti

[Edit]
Re: Sinclair -- dotti, 15:25:59 11/12/03 Wed

Blood in the water...

dotti

[Edit]
GiddyUp Jimmy! -- auspec, 15:17:07 11/12/03 Wed

From Sinclair's site.......fair use educational copyright:

All the Gold Community needs to do to see gold reach $400 and higher is 'Nothing Whatsoever.' Nonetheless, some positive thinking would serve our cause well. Bullish pro-traders like Dan Norcini and me perceive that the Community is no longer being driven to sell by the Trojan Horse gold advisors.



With them out of the way, we can handle the rest. I can't believe some people actually send these hacks money. COT is total history and the paltry amount of selling you saw today at $388 was simply front running by floor traders who never carry overnight positions.

In this case they were front running the now imaginary COT which failed to show up. You are simply afraid of a myth. COT is totalled screwed, prompting me to ask what motivates these foolish Trogan horses within the Gold Community.

It is natural that some short and medium term indicators will go cautionary as gold approaches $400. With the winds at our backs, however, we are the power and don't forget it for a minute. Back when gold was trading at $324, I told you I'd had enough of COT and by playing their game I would beat them. I even told you exactly how to do it.

Now, if you and all your gold advisors stay out of our way, you will get what I told you and it will exceed your expectations. It's as simple as that. Without the Gold Community fighting at $400, the gold market will gain fresh blood and move smartly higher. Let us do our thing and gold will blast over that level and beyond.

Then the indicators that so many of you are bringing to my attention will look like they overdosed on viagra all at once.

All you see in the mirror of those short term indexes is your own reflection. There is nothing whatsoever to stop gold from blasting right through $400, $410, $420, $430 but the Gold Community itself. So get your heads up, stop walking around looking at the ground and start thinking gold at $529 - and believe me it will happen.

It wasn't COT that blocked the recent shot at $400. It was you at the behest of your gold advisors whose credibility is reaching new lows by the day.
END

Comment: The olde pro knows gold. Beating crooks in a rigged game is some kind of sport for sure.

[Edit]
dotti re XCL -- auspec, 14:40:17 11/12/03 Wed

Money is flowing pretty freely these days towards resource programs {financings}. STILL!! For a company to raise over $20 M Canadian from some giants in the industry speakes volumes about the quality of the property XCL holds. That's a lot of money.........it puts XCL fully in charge of the entire district and leaves Kinross as a simple {& I do mean SIMPLE} shareholder.

Drill results will hopefully be heading out in the near future and then we drill the property on an extensive district wide scale.........I assume.

Imh&so, this deal is grossly undervalued compared to numerous peers...........hardly even on the road map. How long do you think that will last?

Regards, shillin along,

a

[Edit]
Wolfgang -- Netking, 14:11:16 11/12/03 Wed

MMN's MO/philosophy is waiting until the POS "kicks in" before any significant production is put into manifestation, the management appear to be "Butler heads" through & through. Until then drilling, exploring & cofirming resource is the name of the game. Home Ag resource of 45M ozs, plus another 'inferred' 100M oz. Silver production cost of US $3.00 oz. EBIT over 9 years production at US $4.70 oz...US $27M pa or at US $12.00 oz...US $205M pa. Market Cap around $14M [for now]. Have some nice high grade silver zones 1460 g/t Ag etc. Own 46% of New Guinea Gold Corp [ http://www.newguineagold.ca ] . . . . some very large prospects therewith awaiting mining, recent drilling suggests sound prospects. Jason's analysis takes no account of the 46% NGG holding. Appears to have sound financials for now, with good cash flow lines etc.

Still, a core holding of physical Ag is the way to go as a foundation, the rest . . . pure speculation in one form or ANOTHER, physical Ag . . . as close to "no risk" at these price levels as one can get. - Netking

[Edit]
@volavka -- dotti, 11:51:28 11/12/03 Wed

Glad I aasked you!!!

whales @40,000 shares each??? Do the whales have names?

LOL

dotti

[Edit]
several big whales -- volavka, 11:07:37 11/12/03 Wed

moving into calvf now.

[Edit]
Noticed silver lately? -- dotti, 09:18:32 11/12/03 Wed

Up $0.19. Get up, you Husky!!!

Gold up $6.

Today is a good day, so far...

And, oh, yes. calvf is up a penny!!!

dotti

[Edit]
@volavka -- dotti, 09:16:09 11/12/03 Wed

Thanks much!

dotti

[Edit]
@dotti, beesting & Flinter -- Sojourner, 09:12:32 11/12/03 Wed


I have a nephew who is a M.D.(specialist) and a cousin who is a farmer. The nephew spent 10 years in academia and the farmer spent 5 years in college. The nephew had a high paying job waiting for him when his "schooling" was over, the cousin went into great debt to buy his land and equipment. Because of the fate of Mother Nature, his first two years were disasters and he made nothing for his crop (cotton and soybeans). By the 2nd year of practice, the nephew had paid off all his school loans and still living "well". People will always get sick and people will always need clothing (cotton) and food. The cousin works dawn to dusk 6 and sometimes 7 days a week. After 14 years, he is making a living and has paid off his land and equipment. He repairs his own equipment and maintains 1 acre for a personal garden. He never knows from one year to the next if his crops will be profitable. He has never taken a vacation and the nephew has been all over the world, owns real estate in three states and a huge portfolio. The nephew sets his own prices for his services and the cousin is dependent on the market.

Each provide services that are needed and the really neat thing is that they are both doing what they love. So, I would say wealth's importance is individual.

Flinter: I am penny less, off the ladder, dumb as a post and I am adopting your idea of making the black cloud something positive. Thanks.

Happy trails to us all,
Sojourner

[Edit]
apll -- volavka, 08:48:25 11/12/03 Wed

possible acquistion:
Govern yourself.

[Edit]
Dotti -- volavka, 08:32:31 11/12/03 Wed

I would hold calvf.
They have been used by brokers as scapegoat like drooy, often watched.
Sit tight.
points of resistance in calvf are .62 .90 1.36 2.12 and 3.36 before it reaches 6.00

[Edit]
Re: Micros -- dotti, 07:06:39 11/12/03 Wed

I am holding about 2k of shares of Caledonia--CALVF.to. I don't do charting, but am told that because their chart looks gruesome, it is a floater. Bought at 0.34, now at 0.29--Oops, make that $0.28. Should I just take my loss.

BTW, AuSchill, XCL just took a giant leap of 7 cents!!! What gives?

dotti

[Edit]
Re: My post -- dotti, 06:57:45 11/12/03 Wed

Upon re-reading my post I recognize that it's pretty spotty, but hope you can read between the lines, above the lines, and below the lines. LOL

dotti

[Edit]
@Netking Macmin Silver -- Wolfgang, 06:43:30 11/12/03 Wed

I don`t have a clue on Macmin. Chart is good looking, indeed, but that`s not all I`d look on.
I have made very good profits on SSRI and PAAS earlier this year, when buying them cheap 2 years ago, when they were a worthwile investment. Maybe it`s now time for the smaller more exploration oriented mines. They will have to be discovered and perhaps soar then to unprecedented highs. I play it much more saver now and keep may hands off stocks, as I don`t know how a specific mining company will survive during the coming SILVER SHOCK. The best strategie for a mine management would be to accumulate as much physical as possible, until the days silver shows it`s true price and then produce ever more silver for the demand of the market. The cash flows generated then would grow astronomically. Many Mines make the mistake to sell silver now or to sell it forward at ridiculous low levels at say $ 6 or 7 to cover all the overhead costs, including own management`s wages. You `ll never know exactly in which vehicle you are invested, what the co has hedged, what the CEO has in mind , etc. which bank gets cold feet etc..
So I decided to actually invest in a proven scarce, but cheap asset in it`s very form. Only time is my accelerator and I have nothing to fear from the stock market upside downs etc. And.. I`m a little sad that the stuff is soon running out.

Wolfgang

[Edit]
@beesting, et al -- dotti, 06:42:08 11/12/03 Wed

Regarding your sister and other academic superstars, they function well in an academic setting—and political settings are much the same, in my opinion. The political view seems to be “We have to do something about…” whatever the problem is. Giving the appearance of “caring” is more important than actually achieving results. And. You and I have already recognized that many of the issues we are discussing don’t have easy solutions—if any solution at all! But. Because you appear caring, you are not blamed for negative consequences—after all, you did the best you could.

And. Yes. The elite do try to solve all our problems. “We, the people” have delegated that job to them. I don’t see it as a superiority complex because the sheeple have given them charge over these “problems”. You and I don’t have answers—and we recognize that. They cannot say: Geez! This really is a terrible problem. I have no idea how to solve it! I am slow to blame politicians who are not absolutely corrupt—their survival depends upon their doing all the things that you and I abhor. And. After all. They are doing the best they can.

beesting: "The problem I have with these super smart people is, yes they are book smart......But can any of them drive a diesel truck thru city traffic?.....Can they fix their own cars? Can they do, day after day, jobs that are physically demanding?....Do their occupation[s] produce "Tangible" wealth?

The whole point is should a minimum wage earner(lets say a farm worker) pay a months wages to get a doctors (health specialists) opinion, which only takes about an hour?

If the answer is yes, than shouldn't the farm worker be able to raise the price on the product he raises?(Food, a necessity of life)"

Maybe my view is just too simplistic, but doesn't supply and demand become a factor here? There are many people who can do physical labor, be clerks, be truck drivers, work at MacDonalds, etc. Only a few can be doctors. Fewer still will make the commitment to spend 7 years of post graduate work going into debt instead of making income straight out of school.

When we were a society of hunters, the biggest, strongest, fastest were at the top of the ladder. (Now we have evolved into a Grasso society!!! Well. That was kind of a joke interspersed here.) Without going into an entire picture here, society should determine the relative values of each worker's contribution.

However. As societies evolve--and I think this is where Ayn Rand excelled--certain things happen, rather predictably.

I don't think it is only immigrants with minimal education that are in a somewhat hopeless situation. It is a condition of life--"The poor you will always have with you."

On the other hand, fiat is definitely being used illegally and unconstitutionally to redistribute wealth. Again. It is the Money Changers, Stupid!

In our society the money changers rule everything because we are a debt based society. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be..." Very few of us could survive in such a way--or grow a business, etc.

Thanks for the mental stimulation and excellent ideas you have furnished me. Gives me food for thought for while I am in the studio.

Flinter, I love your posts. Just wish I understood:

"I plan on becoming "penny less", to fall off "the ladder", and to de-"educate" myself to the point where I'm so dumb don't even notice the difference."

May I suggest that it's the people with money, up the ladder, and educated who "...don't even notice the difference." And they should know better!!!

flyin' along...

dotti

[Edit]
pain -- volavka, 05:00:09 11/12/03 Wed

The venom from a predatory Pacific Ocean snail is being used to make a painkiller called ziconotide that is said to be 1,000 times more potent than morphine

[Edit]
@ Beesting's "playing field" -- Flinter, 03:09:56 11/12/03 Wed

Hi Beesting! I believe you have nailed it with your 21:53:25. But then, nothing new about that, your posts always do.

I plan on becoming "penny less", to fall off "the ladder", and to de-"educate" myself to the point where I'm so dumb don't even notice the difference.

And, at which point, Sojo's "black clouds" will become a celebration for a needed rain and a chance to rest tired muscles.

Live long and "posper",
Flinter

[Edit]
volavka -- $hifty, 00:44:38 11/12/03 Wed

Hey volavka thanks for the gifts!

They keep on giving !

:-)

$hifty

[Edit]
A railroad parable @beesting & Dotti -- journeyman, 22:38:10 11/11/03 Tue

JJ Hill was, by some measures, the greatest railroad man in history.

The story goes that an ambitious young man decided he wanted to be a railroader himself and managed to sneak an interview with Mr. Hill.

When the precocious young man confronted JJ, he said, "Mr. Hill, you're the greatest railroad man in the world and I want you to teach me everything I need to know to run a railroad just like you do."

This straight forward talk amused Hill, so he thought things over before he answered.

He said, "Son, your spunk impresses me. I would never have thought I would take on a protege, but I'm going to make an exception in your case."

Hill went on, "But it will cost you $2000 dollars" (a ridiculously low price) "and take at least two years."

The young man was crest-fallen. He told Hill he didn't have $2000 and he couldn't spare two years.

As he turned to go, JJ, not to be left without the last word, said, "That's too bad, son. But I have an idea."

The kid turned back.

JJ said, "You can put up $200 and spend one month running for office, and if you're elected, you'll feel competent not only to run all the railroads, but everything else in the country as well."

Regards,
Journeyman

[Edit]
Thanks @Netking -- journeyman, 22:16:35 11/11/03 Tue

Hi Netking!

Thanks for the link! What a story - - - if it holds up.

j.

[Edit]
Is There More Opportunity Now Or Less, For The Tired Poor & Hungry? -- beesting, 21:53:25 11/11/03 Tue

dotti, you have raised some good issues which I can only give (FREE) opinions on, so they're not worth much....Smile.

It seems to me the current Americans are mostly a product of their early environment. My older sister(who I call, "The Socialist", behind her back) did exceptionally well in school simply because she started reading anything and everything at a very early age....She climbed the political ladder of success until her boss was none other than the Governer of the state.
The problem I have with her, and it sounds like your brother may be the same way is, she feels she is qualified to do the thinking for everyone else and her way is the correct way.....no matter what the consequences may turn out to be.

Does this also sound a little like our current president?

(Do they have a superiority complex?)

The problem I have with these super smart people is, yes they are book smart......But can any of them drive a diesel truck thru city traffic?.....Can they fix their own cars? Can they do, day after day, jobs that are physically demanding?....Do their occupation[s] produce "Tangible" wealth?

The whole point is should a minimum wage earner(lets say a farm worker) pay a months wages to get a doctors (health specialists) opinion, which only takes about an hour?

If the answer is yes, than shouldn't the farm worker be able to raise the price on the product he raises?(Food, a necessity of life)

O.K. I'm probably not making much sense here.....But what I'm trying to say is ALL occupations are important.....and ALL workers should be compensated at rates where everybody can afford each others goods and services.......I think the early American Gold standard money did exactly that...

....My grandfather was an immigrant from Scotland,(1st occupation was a printers apprentice) from his early 20's on he lived in the USA and retired at about 60 a wealthy man......And apparently many, many immigrants did just as well, if not better.

The question is, do the USA immigrants of today that have minimum education, still have the opportunity to give themselves and their children a higher standard of living or are they destined to a life of relative poverty?

I know this is un-answerable but I believe Gold used as money leveled the playing field between the haves and the have nots 90 years ago and maybe could do so again today,with time.

kind regards.......beesting.

[Edit]
@SoJo and Beesting -- dotti, 17:50:43 11/11/03 Tue

SoJo: "Glad to know where you are. In today's atmosphere, whatever keeps the little black overhead cloud away. Or is that possible?"

dotti: probably not.

beesting, minimum wage should not be necessary, but as you know we are in a messed up fiat/socialist economy. Ideally, markets would dictate wages just as any other supply/demand function. In a pure capitalist economy, those who did not have a skill that was "in demand" would starve or take whatever job was available. Once you get away from that, who is going to do the "nasty" jobs?

Do you really think that somebody can go from the mail room to the executive offices the way things are today? I think not.

What about the garbage collectors? I know that some guy went from being a garbage collector to being a tv star--but, really. Who does that.

The poor who are also unskilled are without hope. What can be done about that? Increase the lottery?

When you talk about the hardest working people getting paid the least, do you figure in the level of education? In my parents' house, the philosophy was that education was compensated by not having to work as hard as those doing physical labor. My two brothers have an MBA and a Ph.D, respectively, and both of their wivees have Ph.d.'s Does that count for something?

I am not saying that I have the answer. I know tht this is a very difficult issue. Unions enabled those who were not educated to earn good wages. In the beginning, unions were probably needed. Like everything else in our society, it got out of control.

I wrote a first draft before having wine. It was much better, but it got wiped out when I tried to post it. So. This is the best I can do under the circumstances!

I would favor "pure communism" (giving according to ability; taking according to need) but unfortunately it does not work with human nature being what it is. too bad.

sippin' along

dotti

[Edit]
@J' Man -- Netking, 17:25:21 11/11/03 Tue

Howdy buddy. A link for the story per request. One sad mess over there, no winners on any side. We had Senator Clinton on national prime-time TV down here this week, strongly against the Bush camp MO for Iraq/M.E. but also suggesting they [USA] can't be in a position to lose at this point. She suggested now internationalising the operation, but still staying on to "sort it out". Interesting days.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3533819&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

[Edit]
Math quizz -- volavka, 16:57:30 11/11/03 Tue

An Indian chief had three wives. The first gave birth to a boy. Elated, the chief built her a teepee of deer hide. The second gave birth, also to a boy. He built her a teepee of antelope hide. The third wife gave birth a few days later, but the chief kept the details secret. He built this one a two-story teepee, made of hippopotamus hide. No one could guess what had happened. Finally, a brave guessed the third wife had had twin boys. "Correct," said the chief. "How did you know?" Said the warrior, "It's elementary. The value of the squaw of the hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two hides."

[Edit]
gift -- volavka, 16:48:16 11/11/03 Tue

buy dips in apll major news within 7-10 days or sooner.
under 1.00 a gift.

[Edit]
RossL -- The Big Shill, 16:46:58 11/11/03 Tue

Hey RossL! Thanks for the links. Some of those charts are pretty squirrely looking, no? Right up my alley. Get ready for a real vertical chart for IMR.

Woody is alive and proud this very moment!

[Edit]
House of cards start to fall -- volavka, 16:34:58 11/11/03 Tue

Steel city is thru.
The iron curtain steelers have fallen just like the city, Pittsburgh is bankrupt.

Sad day.

Let the games begin.

[Edit]
@RossL -- OmarD, 16:31:58 11/11/03 Tue

Great Charts Ross...will go to top of my "links"...

Thanks,

OmarD



Any doubts "WHY"???


[Edit]
An answer & a request @Frisco Fred & Netking -- journeyman, 16:25:39 11/11/03 Tue

Hi Frisco, Netking!

Frisco, here's the skinny on that FBI raid on Cryptome:

http://cryptome.org/fbi-cryptome.htm

I clicked on the warning on Cryptome's home page to get there. You should be able to see it for yourself. I also clicked on several of the other documents on the front page and had no trouble getting to them.

Netking, do you have a link to that Reuters story, the one, obviously in the interest of Iraqi Freedom, where American troops handcuffed and taped the mouth of the Iraqi guy that apparently, for some strange reason, didn't completely approve of having his country invaded and his infrastructure and fellow citizens bombed and killed because the dictator the Iraqi guy hated was claimed -- by the president of the invading country -- to have WMD that he might possibly sell to future enemies of the invading country but that didn't exist and that now those invaders are killing innocent civilians, by mistake of course, every day?

If you do, I'd really appreciate it if you could post it.

Regards & thanks,
j.

[Edit]
Shill-spec -- RossL, 15:59:32 11/11/03 Tue

I now have a full page of Au-speculation stock charts on my:

RossL BigCharts page



[Edit]
Hi dotti -- beesting, 15:05:13 11/11/03 Tue

From your post:(Snip)

Do you recommend a higher minimum wage?
(Unsnip)

dotti, I'm glad you asked me that because this is exactly the reason I have been giving my(and Ron Pauls) opinions on a Gold/Silver monetary system all these years.......I believe it's too late to correct a fiat based system that has taken 70 years to fester into it's current, un-balanced at every level, state.(Wages and prices are way out of kilter)......Gold/Silver money "PROMOTES" stability in wages & prices.

Real Wealth has to be generated thru hard work and determination......In the USA today the hardest workers are paid the least amount of money.....Hence the newest members of the labor force are seeking, naturally, the most money for the least amount of physical work.....I heard the in-famous Franklin D. Roosevelt forbid farmers to unionize, because heaven forbid, prices would go up on food.(but it was O.K. to go up on everything else.) Also what I see in the area where I live is, parents are too busy earning a living to TEACH their kids how to perform hard work, right at home.......Which leads to...."Daddy/Mommy can you "GIVE" me some money, I've been good."

dotti, to answer your question:"Do you recommend a higher minimum wage?"
Answer..."NO"! I recommend a small portion of everyones wage should be automatic-ly invested in "PHYSICAL" Gold.......And the day is coming....I don't predict when......these savers of Gold will be rewarded.

If you'll notice the interest rates at banks is currently so low I don't think anyone is saving for a rainy day anymore......therefore when the financial bubble "POPS" ????????????possible chaos!

Back to pruning plum trees.......beesting.

[Edit]
@dotti -- Sojourner, 14:46:53 11/11/03 Tue


Glad to know where you are. In today's atmosphere, whatever keeps the little black overhead cloud away. Or is that possible?

Sojo

[Edit]
It's Illegal -- volavka, 14:45:44 11/11/03 Tue

to have the last one, but don't tell anybody:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/econ/big-bills/

[Edit]
Wolfgang -- Netking, 13:50:12 11/11/03 Tue

Good comments Wolfgang. Have you had much interest in Macmin, also listed on the Deutsche Borse:

Frankfurt or Berlin - Macmin Silver German Security Number: AU000000MMN6 or 897010
Macmin details on the German Stock Exchange at www.comdirect.de
in the field Kurs/Suche insert AU000000MMN6 or 897010


http://www.macmin.com.au/SharePriceData.html#db

[Edit]
@beesting, et al -- dotti, 13:43:59 11/11/03 Tue

SoJo, great to see you again. I returned to my previous position and was wondering what your response would be. At least, it seems you are more well now and I am glad for that. Happy about your chair bargain and about the "experience" it afforded. You go, girl!

beesting, just wanted to let you know that I am following and still adding to my docier (sp?) for my brother. Time is dear and to put something like this together takes a bit of time--otherwise it loses some of the enjoyment and becomes yet another task.

Enjoyed Jay Taylor's piece on the decline of the dollar. Makes a lot of sense.

beesting: "Some hard workers earn about $6.00[?] per hour(many farm jobs and self employed are much less) where-as other occupations may be paying 10 times that or more......Which eventually causes a 2 tier economic system to develop......The rich people and the working poor people.....Which may eventually cause social unrest bigtime for everyone."

Do you recommend a higher minimum wage? I don't see a solution for this, although I realize that it is a problem. May iron itself out, though; many of the $60k jobs are now going overseas. Unemployed may have to take those $6/hour jobs eventually. That's not too good for social unrest either.

Back to the salt mines.

(smile)

dotti

[Edit]
@2004 election and all and a thought on Silver -- Wolfgang, 13:20:23 11/11/03 Tue

Very interesting reading about Soros plans. Bush will not be re-elected, that`s almost sure. But the big danger for you Americans and to some extent for us Europeans is:

Bush knows, that he won`t be re elected. And to not lose his face he will come up with the ugliest ideas and actions he can find.

By the way, is there a geometrical row ?

9/11/2001 WTC
10/12/2002 Bali Bomb
11/13 2003 ?

let`s see.

________

Is silver scarce ?

Oh yes, I think so, real silver is very difficult to get, here in Germany. Having already loaded my boat with silver, I thought I could load another boat, as I have found an other nice hideaway storage place. Buying silver at the bank is not that easy as it was a few years ago when I started to grow my position. The clerk said, " we must order the silver at a dealer, we don`t have it in our Frankfurt main branch office, to get it delivered. So I can`t tell you the price exactly. I will phone you back."

It took two days when he phoned me back and said such a bulk can not be delivered at once. And I would have to pay on a 10 % caution-fee . He said, the last silver order was a few years ago and he dosn`t sound very familiar with silver orders. I bought a few years ago at the same bank.

So I think time to buy silver is definitely running out. Probably I will not get my second boat fully loaded.
Hope you are all already on the silver express, with as much silver as possible, you can carry.

Wolfgang

[Edit]
YES, I'M FOR "HONEST MONEY"....@ Cor Tauri. -- beesting, 12:32:59 11/11/03 Tue

Hi Cor Tauri, thanks for the response.
Don't have to much time write right now but here are a little more of my opinions, by the way I expected dis-agreement:

First I totally agree with your assesment that honest money will not make dis-honest people change their behavior patterns.

However I have to dis-agree when you say the proposed Gold/Silver monetary change would be short lived. Here's why:
The early USA using a Gold/Silver standard managed to keep prices and wages fairly stable for well over 100 years. It wasn't untill after the Bretten Woods agreement that prices and wages really began to sky-rocket in the USA.

IMHO, this was caused by fractional reserve lending by banks, margin buying for stocks,etc.,,,in short creating on paper, extra money to be put in circulation, out of thin air, which may have worked fine up until the point where too much thin air money( money not backed by a tangible asset)(or where the tangible assets real value slides below the amounts of the loans representing them.)

WARNING: If real estate prices begin to collapse all across the USA....Watch Out Below.....Because it's a "CRASH".

If dotti is reading, I read where the actual cause of "The Great Depression" was caused by the above......The amount of dollars in circulation far exceeded the actual "VALUE" of things and services(wages people could charge).....Which in turn caused a massive "Worldwide Contraction" of the "Fractional Reserve" paper money that was already in circulation.......Also called by some a "BUBBLE"......Because bubbles filled with air always pop at some point.......Which according to historians is the never ending history of "ALL" paper money systems tried in the past.....it's just difficult for anyone to predict the "WHEN"!

When The Great Depression rolled into high gear the known amounts of Gold/Silver stayed the same but Roosevelt stole the monetary Gold from the people because somebody told him this is where the REAL WEALTH of the USA is....."Grab It Quickly".....Maybe because he didn't want to let the U.S. gvt. get stuck with a bunch of worthless I.O.U's, in its treasury?????

Cor Tauri, there is one very important point I managed to leave out on my original message yesterday.....And here it is:
The Gold/Silver monetary systems are really "BARTER" systems, and here's why:
It is a TRADE of a real tangible asset(peice of wealth) for another tangible asset or service.

The 5 cent apple in yesterdays analogy was traded for:
A round piece of copper-nickel weighing 5 grams and valued at 1/20th of an ounce of Silver or approx. 1/400th of an ounce of Gold.
So, we might say it took about 400 apples to trade for an ounce of Gold.
HHMMmmmmmmmm.....I've seen apples today that are sold by weight and some of excellent quality might go for about $1.00 for one....a small bag of 4 might cost $4.00.....Which means apples are keeping the same Gold ratio as 50 to 60 years ago......400 would be exchanged for an ounce of Gold.

Again IMHO, the part of the monetary system that has really gotten out of balance in the USA, is the wages.....Some hard workers earn about $6.00[?] per hour(many farm jobs and self employed are much less) where-as other occupations may be paying 10 times that or more......Which eventually causes a 2 tier economic system to develop......The rich people and the working poor people.....Which may eventually cause social unrest bigtime for everyone.

So Much For a Short Response, Cor Tauri.....Thanks For Reading........beesting.

[Edit]
'How to win friends & influence people' - MXVIII -- Netking, 11:48:48 11/11/03 Tue

[Fair use snip of copyright REUTERS article]

"...American soldiers handcuffed and firmly wrapped masking tape around an Iraqi man's mouth as they arrested him today for speaking out against occupation troops.

Asked why the man had been arrested and put into the back of a Humvee vehicle on Tahrir Square, the commanding officer told Reuters at the scene: "This man has been detained for making anti-coalition statements...

...US politicians and military commanders often say they toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein so that Iraqis can enjoy free speech and democracy after years of iron-fisted rule.

Another US soldier swore at Iraqis as he ordered them to move back. School teachers and young students looked on..."

[Edit]
CRYPTOME -- Frisco Fred, 10:50:30 11/11/03 Tue


I went to their site and read the index of items and documents they have, but I was unable to read any of them. I kept getting the "contains material you cannot have". Anyone else have success in getting into the actual reading material? I am sharing a WebTV and thought that maybe it meant I did not have the right equipment. Any suggestions?

[Edit]
@All -- dotti, 10:41:51 11/11/03 Tue

Re: Soros pledges $US15.5 million to oust Bush -- The 2004 Presidential, 09:41:03 11/11/03 Tue


Now y'all don't think he'd be willing to run Ron Paul, do ya?

dotti

[Edit]
Ha ha ha -- volavka, 10:17:34 11/11/03 Tue

George has a house @ 16 country club hts, Monson Ma.

You'all stop over and see him and hold me a martini.

[Edit]
Soros pledges $US15.5 million to oust Bush -- The 2004 Presidential, 09:41:03 11/11/03 Tue

George Soros, one of the world's richest men has given away nearly $US5 billion to promote democracy in the former Soviet bloc, Africa and Asia. Now he has a new project: beating President George Bush.

"It is the central focus of my life," he said. The 2004 presidential race is "a matter of life and death".

Mr Soros, who has financed efforts to promote open societies in more than 50 countries around the world, is bringing the fight home, he said.

He and a partner have committed up to $US5 million to Moveon.org, a liberal activist group, bringing to $US15.5 million the total of his personal contributions to oust Mr Bush.

Overnight, Mr Soros, 74, has become the major financial player of the Left. He has elicited cries of foul play from the Right. With a tight nod, he pledged, "If necessary, I would give more money."

"America, under Bush, is a danger to the world," he said. Then he smiled: "And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is."

Mr Soros says a "supremacist ideology" guides the White House. He hears echoes in its rhetoric of his childhood in occupied Hungary: "When I hear Bush say, 'You're either with us or against us,' it reminds me of the Germans."

It conjured up memories of the Nazi slogan, "Der Feind hoert mit" (The enemy is listening): "My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitised me," he said.....

(fair use snip from: The Washington Post)

[Edit]
Iraq -- Netking, 00:44:32 11/11/03 Tue

Where This War is Headed

Fair use of copyright snippets:

Events last week may actually provide more in the way of indicators as to where the Iraq war is headed...
The first two were successful attacks on American M-1 Abrams tanks by Iraqi resistance forces. In the first attack, the M-1 was taken out by what appears to have been a tandem-warhead light anti-tank weapon, which no one knew the resistance possessed. The second attack resulted in the complete destruction of an M-1, with the turret blown off the chassis of the tank by a large improvised mine. The technique is the same as that used by the Palestinians to destroy several Israeli Merkava tanks, so it should not have come as a surprise to us.

More significant than the destruction of two American tanks is the fact that Iraqi guerrillas are attacking tanks. This is an indicator that the guerilla war is developing significantly more rapidly than reports in Washington suggest. With the second stage of the Iraq war just six months old, one would expect the guerillas to be attacking only weak, vulnerable targets, such as supply columns. The fact that they are going after the most difficult of all ground targets, heavy tanks, is surprising. It means they lack neither confidence nor skill.

One other indicator: a friend recently noted to me that the rapidly improving techniques we see from the Iraqi guerrillas bear a striking resemblance to those used by the Chechen guerrillas against the Russians. Might it be that we are not the only ones to have a coalition in Iraq?

[Edit]
Currency update - NZD -- Netking, 00:12:44 11/11/03 Tue

The New Zealand dollar bounded to fresh six-year highs against the United States dollar today, and may receive another boost if surprisingly strong labour market data forces the Reserve Bank to hike interest rates soon.

To show its strength is not only against the greenback, the New Zealand Trade-Weighted Index also registered a six-year high of 64.42, compared with yesterday's 63.79. It finished on 64.33. The kiwi was at six-year highs against sterling and the Swiss franc and a 3-1/2 year high against the euro.

Today's much stronger than predicted jobs numbers had greatly heightened the chances of a rate rise on December 4, when the Reserve Bank releases its quarterly Monetary Policy Statement, and that was likely to put further upward pressure on the kiwi, economists said. The kiwi closed the session near its high at US62.32c, over half a cent higher than yesterday's close of US61.73c.

The Australian dollar ended at US71.47c (US71.09c) and the kiwi made inroads on that cross rate as it did with all others.

http://www.forexdirectory.net/nzd.html

[Edit]
Current POG, POS, POP & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 23:05:18 11/10/03 Mon

US$/POGUS$/POSEURO/POGU$D




LbS/POG London Fix LbS/POS



PLAT
PALL


[Edit]
@Whistleblower.. Foreign Character sets.. -- Webmaster: Rex, 23:03:31 11/10/03 Mon

I believe, what you saw there, (referenced in your 09:42:18 11/10/03 Mon post)
is text material written in some foreign language by persons having their
computers properly setup with the appropriate character set/code pages.

There's nothing nefarious about that. These wouldn't "translate" into anything
readable or intelligible in English. Persons with the appropriate character set
would simply see it in their native letters, as is common on the internet.

ie: it's similar to "fonts", but are actually foreign characters, Chinese,
Korean (as Sojo suggests), Japanese, Sanskrit, Hindu, Arabic, Crylic, or any
of many used throughout the internet.

And, obviously, if anyone was dumb enough to send "secret messages" in a wide
open forum, they would be quite readable by whatever entity in the government
might wish to read/translate their content.

I guess it's another form of Free Speech or Communication among folks with
similar interests. Not for me to delete them because I cannot read them.

Since ER Forum 2 has become an oddball place of sorts, makes it somewhat
unique on the internet. Rather than delete all the spam and craziness there,
I just let it accumulate, in hopes that someone, somewhere, may find some
tidbit of interest. Others of us, simply scroll on by.

Thanks for your concern, Whistleblower. Let's let them have their fun.

..Rx

[Edit]
Fools rush in -- Sojourner, 20:18:41 11/10/03 Mon


I went to a flea market this afternoon just to browse. I stopped and looked at a booth with some coins. I didn't buy any, but the guy and I were talking mostly about silver. He likes the old, old silver coins. When I left there, the man next to him had some old furniture and gadgets. There was a rocker (cherrywood) he had marked for $35. He could easily see my interest, as I asked questions and examined it. He said, "Tell you what I'll do..... pay me in silver and I'll let you have it for $25. (Well, in my opinion, the $35 was more than a bargain.) So, I asked him spot price or face value? He said face value!!!!!! I said, In other words, you want $125 (figuring $5 spot) for the rocker? He was flustered and said, "No, I want $35." I gave him $35 fiat, got my rocker and told the coin guy (who had a big grin) as I walked by to explain it to him.......and I wasn't even wearing my purple hat. But I imagine he got a lesson about silver from his neighbor after I left.

Had my fun for the day,
Sojo

[Edit]
rabbitts -- volavka, 17:52:00 11/10/03 Mon

access mkt must be breeding, up 1.60 now, to da moon.

[Edit]
if you go to college -- volavka, 17:50:14 11/10/03 Mon

study the rose, sacraments of the last supper, nautilus,and the breeding of rabbits.

All have one thing in common.

[Edit]
How about this for a news event -- volavka, 17:42:46 11/10/03 Mon

BONDS:
they're closed tomorrow , now read this, 4th paragraph:
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1066565774246&p=1012571727085

[Edit]
apll -- number six, 17:17:11 11/10/03 Mon

You're putting me through college here, Volavka. :) I must say, gold/silver microcaps look like the place to play.

Things to look for - proven resources, clean background on directors, moving towards production with apparent good profit prospects, lowly unloved market cap...volumes springing to life.

but for the timing, you need a news event, or if you're clever, the reasoned anticipation of such. Without an event, bargains can sit there for months without moving.

And the pennies should generally be avoided by non-involved investors.

[Edit]
The seed grows -- volavka, 16:51:03 11/10/03 Mon

http://www.apologold.com/

[Edit]
Under the Star -- volavka, 16:32:06 11/10/03 Mon

The Pyramids first, which in Egypt were laid;
Next Babylon's Gardens, for Amytis made;
Then Mausolos' Tomb of affection and guilt;
Fourth, the Temple of Diana in Ephesus built;
The Collus of Rhodes, cast in brass, to the sun;
Sixth, Jupiter's Statue, by Phidias done;
The Pharos of Egypt come last, we are told,
Or the Palace of Cyrus, cemented with GOLD.

The loom of God weaves the fabric of the universe.

[Edit]
beesting, -- Cor Tauri, 16:18:50 11/10/03 Mon

I like your posts very much. I regret that I feel compelled to be your one of the detractors of your suggestion.
you wrote,
" 1. The U.S. congress has the constitutional power to "regulate" the "Value" of the dollar....(Which is supposed to be Silver)....."

Yes, I suppose they do. I don't know how to do this. The ship in your analogy, you see a breech in the Port side. I see that breech, just as you do. However, I also see that the starboard side is ripped open from stem to stern.
I am reading about the philosopher Kant currently. It may strongly affect how I view things right now.

I presume we can use the term "honest money" to refer to your plan.
What is the meaning and value of an honest money system, when the populace that will use such a system is essentially dishonest. I don't imply that the average person would lie, rather that people are accustomed to obtaining what they want now even if they can not currently afford it. This is essentially the same meaning of honesty in honest money, that is, whatever monetary authority exists currently issues more than they have reserves to justify. The behaviors exhibited by the monetary authority in "liberal" issue of currency, and in the populace by "liberal" use of credit are they same, and probably feed back on each other making it more comfortable for both parties to behave this way. Further there is the behavior of government, which seems to feed back into this system. The government feels it is necessary to spend more money than they take in in revenue. They are enabled to do so because of the behavior of the central bank, a behavior that they almost certainly encourage.
If an honest monetary system exists in a population of dishonest attitudes and behaviors toward money, the opinion of all concerned will be that the monetary system is limiting, restrictive, and broken. So they will fix it. Thus any honest monetary system will be very very shortlived in such an environment.

Also in your post you wrote, " why not make the U.S. dollar a little more "precious" than the rest of the worlds paper money" Your implication that this is desirable to all concerned is at odds with the current understanding regarding the phenomena of "competitive currency devaluation". There exists nations that are intentionally weakening the exchange value of their currency for trade reasons. You know this of course and you know the reasons, but you seem to have forgotten that it may not be certain that anybody in the US really wants the US dollar to be slightly stronger than all the other paper currencies.

" We are currently hearing from around the world that many, many are dis-satisfied with the continued use of the U.S. dollar as the one and only acceptable form of payment at the international level......Some would say this may be the reason the USA is currently ingaged in so many conflicts all over the world."

You write here as if there is a single cause and a single effect. Yet in the multitude of attitudes toward the US$ it seems that there is no direct causal relationship here. Some people perhaps were dissatisfied with the US$ for reasons and in response to that the US engaged in some conflict. That conflict almost certainly has caused other people to become dissatisfied with the US and the US$. Your describing a feedback loop of some sort, the ship is sinking so the breech is farther under the surface of the water and the water rushes in that much faster.

Your idea was workable at one time. Apparently in the early part of our history we did in fact have honest money. There were periods of exception, Lincons greenbacks spring to mind, but they were apparently understood to be abnormal behavior at the time. People did not borrow money nor lend money without a certain hesitation. There was no central bank to issue more money than reserves could bear. Independent banks did this and occasionally got ruined by the behavior. No one bailed them out, so they served as a stark warning to other bankers, and also to depositors. Currently banks do not go under, or if they do, all the depositors expect to get all of their money back. And they do. Currently, if I want the big vehicle that will make me feel like a real man, I don't have to consider how I will be able to pay for it. I don't even have to consider how I will service the debt, because I won't have to for a year or more. I can borrow to buy anything from a house or business to groceries. I can borrow to gamble. I can walk into a casino and purchase chips with a credit card. ( I think, I don't frequent casinos.)
Something has changed, and you suggest that the monetary system has changed to allow all this. I would suggest that while that is true, the attitudes of people toward credit, the understanding of money, and general common sense toward money has changed. This has both driven the changes in the monetary system and enabled the changes in the monetary system. Fixing one, will not fix the other. Fixing one, without fixing the other will not work.
In short the ship you speak of will sink. It has taken on too much water to stay afloat. All will not be lost, most of the people on that ship will survive, make a new ship, probably name it the same as the old ship. But they will all have gotten wet, and have seen a few of their peers go down and not come back up. It would seem hopeful that at that point the new ship might actually be guided by something like your plan. At least for a while. Perhaps, sailors and passengers need to get wet every now and again, in order for them to keep from drowning.

Beesting, I read some of what I wrote, and it pretends to insight or authority that I do not have. Understand I am reading philosophy and practicing writing thoughts, and I am very very much a novice to it.

Best Regards

[Edit]
Where's abby Joe -- volavka, 16:01:09 11/10/03 Mon

bout time to bring butch out of the closet in time for the big crash.

[Edit]
What are you going to do about it? @ALL -- journeyman, 15:37:15 11/10/03 Mon

Hi ALL!

Yep! Cryptome (see below) isn't the first and won't be the last. Big brother is spooking the internet and everywhere else. USA Corp. is breaking their charter (The Constitution) big time. They're breaking their own laws. They''ve turned U.S.A. into a police state -- only a matter of time till they find enough thugs and Milgram-conditioned dupes to spread it around.

A good friend of mine keeps asking, "How did the German people let Hitler happen?" All you have to do is watch the U.S. militaryindustrialmedia 6 O'clock news and you can watch first hand. Is it time to rebel yet?
U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft: Bear with us here. We we are used to reacting to crime after it happens. Preventing crime before it happens is new to us and we must adapt. Prevention is now our top priority. We're learning with each new incident. -CNBC, October 16, 2001, 12:45:10
WILMINGTON, Del. -- Police in Delaware are trying to get a head-start on cracking crimes before they happen by setting up a database that contains a list of people who officers believe are likely to break the law. ... The precise grounds for putting a person on the list aren't clear. ... The pictures are being taken by two Wilmington police squads created in June to arrest drug dealers. The units are known in some neighborhoods as "jump-out squads" because they jump out of cars and make quick arrests. Many of the people whose photos have been taken for the file were stopped briefly for loitering and let go. Delaware police compile database of future suspects, Associated Press, Aug. 25, 2002, 10:00PM
"The legal hallmark of dictatorship has always been Preventative Law -- the concept that a man is guilty until he is proven innocent..." -Ayn Rand
WASHINGTON -- One in every 32 adults in the United States was behind bars or on probation or parole by the end of last year, according to a government report Sunday that found a record 6.6 million people in the nation's correctional system. The number of adults under supervision by the criminal justice system rose by 147,700, or 2.3 percent, from 2000 to 2001, the Justice Department reported. ... "The overall figures suggest that we've come to rely on the criminal justice system as a way of responding to social problems in a way that's unprecedented," said Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project .. Nation's penal system encompasses 6.6 million, By JONATHAN D. SALANT, Associated Press, Aug. 26, 2002, 10:56AM

Regards,
j

[Edit]
...S.O.S...S.O.S...SOS...SOS...SOS...SOS...SOS!!!!! -- beesting, 12:18:27 11/10/03 Mon

Just in case anyone doesn't know what SOS stands for it means:
Save Our Ship....In this case the U.S.S. DOLLAR!(United States Ship)

From around the world we hear that prices on goods and services are rising.....Now some may call it inflation...Some may call it deflation....Some may call it disinflation....And some may call it plum-ation.....But whatever name you want to label this situation, it's caused by a worldwide un-stable monetary system which is supposed to be anchor-ed by a sound & stable U.S. dollar which in turn is supposed to be anchor-ed by a sound and stable paper "SDR" which is issued by the IMF.

First a little history for new readers, then a new plan to Save Our Ship or in this case the U.S. dollar.

In 1944 it was decided at Bretten Woods New Hampshire to make international payments payable in the U.S.""GOLD BACKED"" dollar.
This worked until 1971 when the U.S. Treasury started to run out of Gold simply because the U.S. price was set(mandated) at $35.00 per ounce (by decree) whereas the world POG was inching up (floating) towards $40.00 per ounce.
Nixon, instead of "floating" the POG to match the rest of the worlds price,decided to suddenly NO longer make American dollars redeemable in Gold.....And from that point on and until today U.S. dollars have only a "percieved" value,,,,,with NO limit.......Which means there are NO set restrictions on the amount charged for goods and services......Hence it is concievable an apple, formerly about 5 cents(1/20th of a dollar) in U.S. money for one, could eventually cost $1000.00 or more for one.

We are currently hearing from around the world that many, many are dis-satisfied with the continued use of the U.S. dollar as the one and only acceptable form of payment at the international level......Some would say this may be the reason the USA is currently ingaged in so many conflicts all over the world.

Here is a desperate, last minute plan to Save Our Ship.....the U.S. dollar.

The U.S. founders very wise-ly, tied the American money, by specifying in the law of the land, the U.S. Constitution, that nothing but Gold & Silver will be used as money.
According to our friend Ron Paul, this is exactly what makes money ""PRECIOUS"" to ALL people!
Currently it seems noone, or very few, are using "precious" money.

Sooooo, in order to make the U.S. dollar "precious" once again it must become "precious".

???????"""HOW"""???????

Well, here is one thought by a small minded one:

Since noone can put an accurate amount or total value of the worlds total amount of paper money issued from every country issuing paper money into understandable numbers, why not make the U.S. dollar a little more "precious" than the rest of the worlds paper money......So that the rest of the world would accept or continue to accept American dollars without the current hull-a-ba-loo..... The transition may be difficult for a while because of this.........

There are 480 "GRAINS"(gr)in an ounce!
There are .015 "GRAINS" in a milligram(mg).
There are (Approx.)31.1034 "GRAMS"(g or gm) to an ounce.(oz)
There are 100 "GRAINS"(gr) in a "GRAM"(g or gm).
There are 1000 "GRAMS"(g or gm)or 100,000 "GRAINS"(gr) to a Kilogram.
There are 1,000,000 million "GRAMS"(g or gm) in a "metric" tonne.
Large amounts of Gold or Silver are measured in "METRIC" tonnes.

Please Read On......

So since the U.S. is still using the olde English standard of measure-ment my proposal is two fold:

1. The U.S. congress has the constitutional power to "regulate" the "Value" of the dollar....(Which is supposed to be Silver).....

Why not declare ONE dollar is "WORTH" and "REDEEMABLE" for "ONE GRAIN" of Silver.....

2. ....And "TWENTY GRAINS OF SILVER WOULD EQUAL *ONE* GRAIN OF GOLD!!!"

In My Humble Opinion this monetary change could save the U.S. dollar and at the same time redeem the "WORTH" of the United States in the world community.......Of course distracters will appear from every direction........So go ahead guys & gals....let me have it!!!(the negative thoughts)

Now, since the worlds monetary systems are in such a combined state of "FLUX" right now of course there would have to be a transition period similar to the introduction of the "Euro" which in retrospect has now seemed to have worked well in the Euro-zone countries.


Thanks For Reading.........beesting

P.S. If this plan ever was implemented wouldn't it have been worth the wait for those patient Silver & Goldhearts?

[Edit]
Whistleblower -- Sojourner, 11:16:45 11/10/03 Mon


I am not a multilinguist, but I think perhaps those messages are written in Korean instead of Chinese. Slap my hand if I am wrong.

SJ

[Edit]
FBI to Website Owner: "We Are Watching You" -- 6Pack, 10:16:15 11/10/03 Mon

Fair use snippet:

http://www.counterpunch.com/cassel11072003.html

Cryptome is a web site dedicated to investigating and publishing accounts of government improprieties, particularly as they relate to secrecy and First Amendment violations. On November 4, FBI agents visited the website's New York City office and met with site owner John Young.

Both agents, who are identified on the site and who left their official cards, said that they had information that Cryptome was a source of information that could be used to "harm the United States." Prior investigations by the FBI, the agent admitted, had not found any evidence of criminal wrongdoing, but the FBI was fearful that information on the site would end up in the "wrong" hands. Cryptome was asked to report to the FBI any "gut feeling" they had that its information would be a "threat" to the U.S.

One agent said that visits like these are increasingly common as the government seeks out information on threats to the U.S. The agents said they would "write up" a report on their visit. The agents asked that their names not be published, but Cryptome refused to honor that request. One reason for their request of anonymity is so that information about them cannot be pulled from one of many databases available online. (Funny how government agents don't want to be the source of data mining, but they certainly want to use it against us.)

Cryptome has a host of documents on its website, most government documents obtained from various sources. The site says it will not remove any document without a valid court order and no order has ever been served on them.

Young is no doubt aware that the FBI has probably already given his name to NYPD and that they will keep their eye out on him, pursuant to new regulations in which the feds ask local cops to help them rein in "suspicious" persons. Lucky for us that Young is watching the FBI.

Elaine Cassel practices law in Virginia and the District of Columbia, teachers law and psychology, and follows the Bush regime's dismantling of the Constitution at Civil Liberties Watch. She can be reached at: ecassel1@cox.net

[Edit]
To Rex Walking Bear & ThaiGold. -- A Whistleblower., 09:42:18 11/10/03 Mon

I recently read where secret messages may be being sent over the net.
Check out msgs sent at:
9/29.
10/02.
10/08.
10/16.
10/30.
11/15.
11/5.
at this URL:
http://toledoc.com/forums/thaigold/posts/805.html

I recieved some e-mail that looked like this from China.
Is there a way to transfer these markings into english so all of us can read it?
Thanks, a whistler.

[Edit]
Your fiat is still welcome in NZ . . . for now -- Ag_Eagle, 01:18:39 11/10/03 Mon

The rules on who is allowed to buy New Zealand land [particularly iconic coastal land] may be going under the government's microscope at the moment, but Finance Minister Michael Cullen says the country needs foreigners' money if the economy is going to develop and remain in the top half of the OCED. Meanwhile, the New Zealand property market has had ANOTHER record-breaking year and now real estate agents are hoping it will be topped off by the first house to break the $10 million mark. Still waiting for Tai's cheque [check] to clear, darn out of State banks, leave home without 'em....

[Edit]
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 00:21:33 11/10/03 Mon

Ponzi Chart


Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,970.74 + Dow 9,809.79 = 11,780.53 divide by 2 = 5,890.265 Ponzi

Up 23.60 from last week.

Thanks for the link RossL !

Go GATA !

Go Gold !

Go Comets !

$hifty




[Edit]
Solar Powered Barad-Dur -- number six, 23:14:31 11/09/03 Sun

If you're looking for a potential homerun investment, then there's not much point looking away from the precious metals. But if you also want to invest in something revolutionary and futuristic, then this might interest you.




Chinese join up as solar power dream aims high

By Philip Hopkins
November 10, 2003.

Businessmen from China are to invest millions of dollars in Australia's proposed giant solar energy tower with a view to building similar solar power stations in China itself.

The Chinese investors have formed Sunshine Energy (Aust) Pty Ltd, which will invest $1.5 million in EnviroMission, the Melbourne-based company that wants to build the one-kilometre-high solar tower.


Fair use, Bruce

They can capture huge amounts of solar heat which converts to electricity, can grow lots of food under their greenhouse, can profit as a tourist attraction, can rent out coms tower space, and can get money from naming rights. My friend suggested the "Viagra Tower", which I thought was cute even though viagra jokes are passe.

ticker symbol evm on the asx.

George Bush could've built 200 hundred of these for the price of Iraq - enough perpetual electricty for 40 million houses, I think. California has some nice sunny deserts nearby, doesn't it?

[Edit]
BULLETIN: US MERCHANTS TO DARE RAISE PRICES TO MAKE ENDS MEET, WHEN PERMITTED -- goldus, 22:30:31 11/09/03 Sun

Excerpt from www.endgame.ca
goldustorm -11-09-03

"By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Some business owners are starting to get what they've wanted for years: higher prices.
As consumer and business spending improves, a growing number of firms are raising the prices they charge for their goods and services. According to preliminary data from the National Federation of Independent Business, a net 8% of small business owners surveyed in October said they were raising prices, up 4 percentage points from September and the highest since June 2001.....
Larry Walton, owner of Camera Mart in East Liverpool, Ohio, says he'd like to raise his film processing fees about 10% to offset increased costs for transportation, workers' compensation insurance, paper and banking fees. But he says that's impossible with two Wal-Marts and a Kmart in the area.
"You really have to be creative to make money here," he says."

Man, we've never had it so good- merchants bending over backwards just to please us!
I'm so impressed, I'd be willing to pay these guys 6 months IN ADVANCE for their camera processing so they can collect 1.5% interest which sure beats most inflation!
While it's only a matter of time before WalMart starts offering shopping sprees with NO payments for six months and NO interest, just like Home Depot with it's $250 "special", we can still afford to help out the locals.
Let's go max out our credit cards so they can send us another one.
Why isn't the "adjusted" pro forma Treasury Dept. statistical record of new debts, released in 3 or 4 months, instead of one? If they can come up with a 40 or 50 year bond and close the Comex at 12:15PM instead of 1:30PM, I say it's a shoo in!"

Excerpts from www.usatoday.com reprinted with permission granted under the Fair Use Clause of International Copyright Law.

[Edit]
Author: Jim Sinclair -- $hifty, 20:27:59 11/09/03 Sun

Sunday, November 09, 2003, 9:05:00 PM EST

COT Trots Out Trojan For Last Time?

Author: Jim Sinclair





Inadvertently, I believe, but still detrimental to the Gold Community at large, is the latest Trojan horse to be rolled out of the COT stable.



It appeared in a Gold Eagle article by Sol Palha who quotes Forbes as saying, “The Journal’s coverage of tax matters focuses on a provision to allow US multinationals a one year window to repatriate profits from abroad at a reduced tax rate of 5.25% instead of the current 35% rate. The bill will also eliminate a tax exemption for Americans working abroad.”

The article goes on to interpret this tax loophole as a means of bulling the dollar higher into the 2004 election. After carefully laying the foundation for his follow-up recommendation, Palha advises his clients to sell gold and gold shares.

I already answered this issue in detail in last week’s article, “Jim Answers Richard Russell’s Question.” However, because I am receiving “Emergency” communications from terrified Gold Community members, I will again give you the skinny on what this really is and its potential impact on gold.

This tax legislation is a purely pork barrel effort designed to benefit select recipients before the 2004 election. (Nothing really new here!). However, this particular effort is being seriously misinterpreted by the writer and is not significantly dollar positive or gold negative in the least. Here’s why”

The amount of funds that can be affected by this legislation are estimated at $150 billion to $300 billion.
These funds would trade in the inter-bank market for currency.
Money repatriated in a legal tax laundry loophole can be expatriated the next day, zeroing the slight impact the trade might have.
The size of the inter-bank market for currency is estimated by the Saint Louis Federal Reserve at one trillion dollars per day. So what is the big deal about even $300 billion over 365 days?
The writer may not know it, but tax treaties exist between the US and almost every major economy in the world. Under these tax treaties, double taxation is significantly modified by making the taxes paid to one nation deductible from US taxes. Because of this, the effective rate in this type of a situation is far from 35%.
So the arithmetic of this legislation is intriguing as it is with any other legislation proposed by this administration. It leads me to believe that some US Fat Cats are getting a gift in this pork barrel tax bill that will allow them to repatriate funds that in fact might not be taxed at all but is needed here in the US.

Keep in mind that the Grand Cayman Islands has a Zero tax rate so funds there have been taxed but at the zero rate. My financial detective sense of “follow the politically favored money” makes this special interest pork barrel tax bill smell like a tax laundering mechanism.

One thing this tax bill is NOT is dollar bullish and gold bearish. So forget the nonsense making the rounds in the Gold Community and get ready for the real play in gold that’s coming soon to a theatre near you.

Beware of the self-styled “gold experts” with no experience in foreign exchange markets or any other market for that matter. Intellectual knowledge is dangerous when it’s laid upon the real world of trading.

Analytical knowledge is good but those that have it in many cases simply do not understand the mechanics of markets and often get lost because of their inexperience. Generally half- experienced geniuses become half-assed advisors.

Again, I would encourage you to post my review on this issue to the chat groups that you frequent because another Trojan horse has been placed in the camp of the Gold Community.

[Edit]
@Dotti with Thanks.... -- Flinter, 20:14:49 11/09/03 Sun

...for the kind words. No thought pleases more, than to have helped someone (a bit) along the Way.

I've been helped by so many, and will undoubtedly need more of the same.

Take Care,
Flinter

[Edit]
Some Comments On Partial Tax Amnesty. -- beesting, 11:11:28 11/09/03 Sun

HBM is probably much better at understanding U.S. Taxes than me but here is a stab at how I think it works.

1st scenario: I had an American friend that worked in Saudi Arabia for quite a number of years. He was employed by the Saudi gvt. He told me all his income was U.S. tax free unless of course he was stupid enough to file a U.S. return. His checks in U.S. money were wired to a European bank account (maybe Swiss?) where he drew funds and converted into local currency or any currency as needed.

2nd scenario: Oil workers working for American companies, and U.S. military etc. overseas have taxes(Social Sec.?)withheld, taken out before they get there checks. OmarD may be able to explain this system better than me.

3rd scenario: Multinational companies like Coca Cola make and distribute their products all over the world. I would suspect they only pay U.S. taxes on money derived with-in the U.S. or foriegn money sent to the U.S. which is probably already converted into U.S. dollars upon arrival.

ANOTHER example is "The Vatican" which has its own worldwide banking system and probably pays little or no taxes worldwide.......Thanks to tax laws which benifit some at the expense of others.

4th scenario: A company where the finished product is paid for in U.S. dollars but manufactured or pumped(oil)overseas would probably only pay U.S. taxes on income derived with-in the U.S. or its territories.If the ($) settlements are consummated at overseas locations I would imagine there would be little if any U.S. taxes paid....(Enron?)

5th scenario: I inquired years ago about buying Gold mining stock in South Africa and opening an account there to handle dividends. It turned out I would have had to pay South African taxes on dividend income which stayed in South Africa and U.S. taxes as soon as I withdrew any funds from my account and sent it back to the U.S.(double taxation)

Bottom Line:
The way I understand it multi-national companies abide by the tax laws of where ever they are incorporated at:
Examples: Banking giant HSBC is incorporated in the Channel Islands(?) therefore only has to worry about corporate tax laws in the Channel Islands.(The Digital Gold Currency's are also using "off-shore" locations as headquarters of operations)
The Channel Islands, Cayman Islands, Panama and a host of other countries have extremely light taxation compared to the U.S., Canada, England, etc. etc. in order to attract foriegn money into their countries, since they don't have the necessary infrastructure to create their own wealth.

Anyway, when the news releases state that foriegners and foriegn countries have bought or are buying large amounts of U.S. government debt, the foriegners(using the investment bankers-Mutual funds, etc. for transactions) are only able to do this with the help of the IMF/Worlds Central banking systems who can conviently circumvent any and all tax obstacles at will.(Doesn't this seem unfair?)

Most of the wealth that was ever created is now under the control of the IMF/Central bankers in the proxy form of paper I.O.U.'s.

If things and services were "VALUED" in amounts of Gold/Silver, as the Digital Gold Currency companies offer, I truly believe the producers of wealth would NOT owe their souls.....To The Company Store....[part of a song by Tennessee Ernie Ford](GVTS. TAX COLLECTORS, & BANKS).

........beesting.

[Edit]
GATA -- auspec, 10:36:06 11/09/03 Sun

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Plenty of importance to read today, if you haven't read some
of it already.

* GATA's Ed Steer asks, "Is the Washington Agreement a
Fraud?" Fraud, Steer writes, in the sense that the agreement
among central banks wasn't meant to rescue the gold price,
as it was presented, but rather to rescue the banks
themselves. You can find Steer's essay here:

http://www.gata.org/WashingtonAgreement.html

* MineWeb's Ken Gooding has excellent analysis of the
changes at the World Gold Council, "WGC's Quiet
Revolution." The changes may seem promising to those
who see gold's future as monetary, not as jewelry. You
can find Gooding's report here:

http://www.mips1.net/mggold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B242256DD90046FD
BE?OpenDocument

Or just go to MineWeb's home page:

http://www.mineweb.com/

* MineWeb's Tim Wood has a great interview with James
Grant, editor of Grant's Interest Rate Observer. It's
headlined "Go Long Silver, Short Fed Arrogance -- James
Grant," and you can find it here:

http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/UNID/TWOD-5T35ZM?OpenDocument

Or, again, just go to MineWeb's home page:

http://www.mineweb.com/

* And trader and writer Dan Norcini examines what GATA
Chairman Bill Murphy long has said is coming in the gold
futures market, a "commercial signal failure," in an essay
titled "Portrait of a Commercial Signal Failure, Part 2,"
posted at Jim Sinclair's site:

http://www.jsmineset.com/

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

Comments: Maybe I missed something but nothing profound jumped out at me from the Steer article. Designated gold isn't much of an epiphany. Have yet to read the others.

[Edit]
Partial Tax Amnesty -- RossL, 19:37:56 11/08/03 Sat

Seems to me that "Tactical Investor" is over-reacting to this partial tax amnesty plan. Multi-national corporations have multiple reasons to keep profit money deployed offshore.

Such as keeping the money protected from lawsuits.

They may choose to continue keeping it offshore despite the tax situation. I would be surprised it the amount re-patriated would be enough to affect exchange rates.

but, that's just my gut feel on the situation.

[Edit]
beesting re Partial Tax Amnesty -- auspec, 18:37:21 11/08/03 Sat

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems that taxes to the IRS would ONLY be payable in FRN's.........therefore they would have to convert to dollars. This would be short term advantageous and long term stupid. Exactly what one would expect of the reckless group in Washington.

Either they're coaxing money home they'd never see otherwise or they're settling for a much smaller amount of money. This isn't going to square the liabilities of the buck either way. Just buying a little more time and showing desperation once again.

[Edit]
auspec -- number six, 17:51:21 11/08/03 Sat

auspec, I was very happy to read your ima exploration story. At the same time as reading it I discovered a really strong cross-correlated personal omen about the project. I'm honestly not the type for that sort of woo-woo stuff, but it's got four extemely strong points, plus four back up aspects. Hopefully I'll be drunk and celebrating their success by christmas, & I'll explain it here then. Would just sound like a flake if I exlained it now. :) Would probably sound like a flake then too, but you know, when you're poor they call it "insanity", and when you're rich they call it "eccentricity." ;)

Now please excuse all these forward-looking statements - for they might eventually just be foolish-looking statements, but I want to go through what I was talking about with ima and the broader silver scene. If these guys do have "the biggest silver mine in world history," i.e 2+ billion ounces, would this sink (for a while,) the silver price hopes of us silverbugs? Well, like you said, it would take 5+ years to start production, so there's quite a window for the shorts to explode and launch the silver supernova despite what's in the ground. And if it goes perfectly like that, then the shareprice of ima would be truly frightening - probably outdo the 10000 baggers from the computer bubble.

And if they did have 2 billion oz, then with a 20 year mine plan they'd only be pumping out 100 million oz per year, which could get swallowed up by the arsenic wood treatment ban alone. So maybe they'd need to find even more than that to seriously impinge on the "store of value" aspect of silver, (which is inherently predicated upon scarcity,) or to put a dampner on the humungo short squeeze we've been waiting years for. But I almost don't put it past them!

When looking for elephants I shouldn't count my chickens like this, but I'm just pretty excited by all the tusks sticking out of the ground there in Argentina. Bring on the truth machine.

[Edit]
@White Rose [USAG] -- Netking, 16:20:36 11/08/03 Sat

WR in the event you read at ER you may find this helpful [per USAG post] from globalsecurity.org [as well as the mentioned orbat.com link]

"...Debka.com has reported (and various other groups including Orbat.com have picked up on) that the United States is sending significant numbers of fighters and bombers from the United States to the Middle East in preperation for attacks on Syria or some other country. However, upon conducting some research it becomes clear that the significant numbers of aircraft that have been spotted over Scotland recently are actually, cargo aircraft. In fact, the traffic over Europe in the last week or so has consisted of cargo and refueling aircraft with some fighter flights out of US bases in Europe. There was only one B-52 report. Furthermore, there has not been any indication from airbases in the US that a major deployment is under way. One might think that Debka is trying to make Syria nervous..."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm
[Under 'Air Force' heading]

Information or dis-information . . . you choose.

[Edit]
Flinter -- jomama, 15:35:53 11/08/03 Sat

"I can't "fix" the system, because there shouldn't be a system."

I shud write "system" in quotes whenever I do it as with
"corporation", "nation", "government".

I don't want to fix it cuz it was never there.

What a waste of time, eh?

I'm sure u know inside u there is nothing in all of these.
It's all illusion, pipe dreams, the "stuff" that floats around
in peoples heads. Why do we waste so much time attacking
it when we can....

LIVE

and..

MAKE

our own reality just adding an ideaseed here and there
and watch and see what grows from the attempt.

CNN? What's that?

sometimes I feel like a mother-less child,

Jo

P.S. Good ta see ya, journeyman buddy.

P.P.S. OmarD: The logarithmic spiral is all!
I'll get back to ya on that.

[Edit]
A Stupid Idea???? -- beesting., 14:48:05 11/08/03 Sat

A snip from auspecs post:

"The Journal's coverage of the tax measure focuses on a provision to allow U.S. multinationals a
one-year window to repatriate profits from abroad at a reduced tax rate of 5.25%, instead of the
current 35% rate. The bill would also eliminate a tax exemption for Americans working overseas."

Full story www.forbes.com/2003/05/16/cx_da_0516topnews_print.html

If you did not get the implication of that message, let me elaborate on it. First, by allowing US
multinationals to repatriate their earrings back to the US at a rate of 5.25% is tantamount to a 29%
across the board cut in Taxes, which will more than push them to come to the US. This 29% break
more than makes up for the current devaluation in the dollar. Who would not take such an offer? Its
basically free money.

Now here is where the situation gets sticky. In order to repatriate that money the multinationals have
to change from whatever currency they are currently holding to the US dollar, effectively they will be
buying the US dollar and dumping their local currency.(Unsnip)

beesting comments: The writer has the mistaken impression that the "Only" alternative available when collecting other than American currency is to change it back into American currency.

This is FALSE!!!

I can think of at least 3 methods of changing foreign currency into something other than U.S. dollars......Which eventually support the American WAR machine:

1st method......Euro's currently appreciating in value are available at the international level, & Gold Dinars may also be currently available at the international level.

2nd method......Buy physical Gold and keep it in storage until the currency of choice is decided upon.

3rd method and the one I recommend to multi-national-companies and to smaller investors and savers.
Buy some type of ""DIGITAL GOLD"" which is backed by provable 100% ownership of physical Gold or Silver.
There are now several companies offering an alternate to the IMFs/Central banks money//payment systems.
1. Goldmoney.
2. E-gold.
3. Pecunix.
.....And others.

As previously posted I do have a Goldmoney account and am more informed about how it works......But I have no financial interest in the ownership of the company.
Please see Gands thread on forum 2.

It is my humble opinion if enough of a worldwide "Grass Roots Movement"-Back To A Physical Gold Money system is started it would eventually prevent the "Stolen(paper money) Tax Funded" American war machine to become a much smaller "Defensive force" as it was originally intended to be only....back into existence.

......And some more snips from auspecs post:

The rate of M3 growth sank, and the whole system is devouring dollars with an unquenchable thirst.
The Fed needs to keep liquidity in the domestic economy, and this move can be seen as just that. It
is another shift of the The Titanic's deck chairs. The band plays on; the ship appears unsinkable.

Is this bill the lifeboat that US business needs before the dollar is allowed to FALL to ITS REAL
VALUE?
(Unsnip)

Thanks For Reading.........beesting.

[Edit]
Hi Again Journeyman & Warm Welcome Back Sojo. -- beesting, 13:58:43 11/08/03 Sat

Journeyman & qwerty, my excuse concerning the 87 billion,,,I was fooled and duped along with the 108th congress...Smile.

Here are some excerpts from an article that I believe has major revelence:
(Snip)
It's Beginning To Look A Lot Like Viet-Nam!
By Ray McGovern(Who was a former CIA operative for 27 years and co-worker of Bush Sr. when he was in charge of the CIA)

http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern11042003.html

(beesting editing with-in parenthisis brackets)
.....But after being lied to and tricked into passing the 1964 Gulf resolution authorizing the President to wage war,(Viet-Nam) our elected representitives finally rose to the occasion(after 10 years of tears & bloodshed) and said enough.

Just one year ago our current congress was similarly lied to and tricked into ceding to the president its constitutional authority to wage war. And yet,sadly, its recent vote to authorize an additional 87 billion for"post war" Iraq shows that it continues to grovel.
What may be required are wide spread grass-roots demonstrations, led perhaps by the families of those troops dying every day in an **ILLEGAL** war, to force our elected representitives to see the light and act with some courage, one can only hope that this time it doesn't take 10 years....
(And This Also)....As in Viet-Nam, the war is unwinnable.....Hear that? UNWINNABLE!**(un-edited)**

beesting comments:
The current regime has been very smart in its current war preperations, by forming its "Homeland Security Force"(To Quell Protests???).
We already have a U.S. congressman in jail who was vocal in his opposing political views.(Traficant of Ohio)

Therefore, "We The People" have to be very sly on figuring out ways to """STOP""" the ""FUNDING"" of the American war machine......A very hard task when one considers the methods the IRS & buddies use to collect "HIDDEN" and earned revenue and spending it on WAR......And how long it takes for "mainstream" America to realize that they have the "RIGHT" to "NOT" agree with a government policy.

I have figured out one way, please see my next post which is a partial excerpt of Sir auspecs recent 10:33 Sat.(Strong Dollar Policy)

Thanks For Reading.........beesting.

[Edit]
Tax amnesty -- Sojo, 12:32:10 11/08/03 Sat


Maybe the gov't is just wanting to pull some from the woodwork that have voluntarily escaped the paying of taxes in previous years. Once they take advantage of this one year"break", they are then exposed. Possibility?????????

I'm back,
Sojo

[Edit]
@Tree in the Forest -- Netking, 12:18:34 11/08/03 Sat

Yes, sadly. . . time is short, very short. I don't like what I see just ahead. May God indeed bless those who have toiled long & hard & died for our country in good faith they were doing the right thing.....and those who will die. Rgds.

[Edit]
Strong Dollar Policy?? -- auspec, 10:33:34 11/08/03 Sat

From Sol Palha at G-E {http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/tacinv111003pv.html}:

Sinister Silent Attack on Gold

Sol Palha

A very sinister piece of news has made almost no headlines It is a piece of legislation that has been passed by the Senate and is just waiting for House approval, which most likely will be certain.

I took this excerpt from Forbes

"The Journal's coverage of the tax measure focuses on a provision to allow U.S. multinationals a one-year window to repatriate profits from abroad at a reduced tax rate of 5.25%, instead of the current 35% rate. The bill would also eliminate a tax exemption for Americans working overseas."

Full story www.forbes.com/2003/05/16/cx_da_0516topnews_print.html

If you did not get the implication of that message, let me elaborate on it. First, by allowing US multinationals to repatriate their earrings back to the US at a rate of 5.25% is tantamount to a 29% across the board cut in Taxes, which will more than push them to come to the US. This 29% break more than makes up for the current devaluation in the dollar. Who would not take such an offer? Its basically free money.

Now here is where the situation gets sticky. In order to repatriate that money the multinationals have to change from whatever currency they are currently holding to the US dollar, effectively they will be buying the US dollar and dumping their local currency.

This will have the effect of suddenly propping up and giving the US dollar strength, and as the dollars starts to gain, Gold will definitely be its victim. So it's highly likely that Gold's upward trajectory will be momentarily halted and that the day of reckoning will be postponed till after 2004.

Not only will the multinationals benefit from the 29% break, but they will also benefit as the US dollar starts to gain strength. Notice how this provision is only effective for one year, which coincides perfectly with the coming elections. The companies who take advantage of this offer early will be able to make another 10-15% gains as the currency appreciates, so in total they stand to gain upwards of 39%.

Based on this information, I have to recommend that individuals who have two gold portfolios (trading and long term) take precautionary measures and take profits from their trading portfolio's as Gold is going to run into some potentially very strong resistance soon. We, at the Tactical Investor, have already advised our subscribers to take profits and will be sitting and watching this situation closely.

Also, if you look at this chart that I put up in my last update of the Gold and the Dow you notice that the Dow is gaining on Gold once more. Could it be the markets see something that most of us are missing? You be the judge !




You can see now the channel formation very clearly from early 2003; the Dow has actually been winning the battle and is at a critical point. This legislation might be all that the Dow needs now to go and challenge the old high levels where it took 35-40oz to buy the Dow.

I am going to zoom in on this chart.




First of all, you can see the Dow has been gaining on Gold since Feb 2003, about the same time that Gold started loosing value in terms of the Rand (which I currently believe is the world's best performing currency). We are also in the process of completing a wedge. The moment we break through this wedge the price action should be explosive and now with this new piece of legislation we are all but assured that this move will take place.

What should you do?

Well almost all the Gold bugs and smart investors who got in early should be sitting on some profits so it won't hurt to take a little of the table, but by no means sell out all your positions. We have told our subscribers to take profits in their smaller trading portfolios but to hold their long-term portfolios. When and if Gold does pull back here and should it get to the point where it takes 35-40oz to buy the Dow, I would view this as a mouth watering opportunity to load up on gold shares and Gold bullion.

My trusted associate and Pal John Tyler from the www.infognome.com has this to say.

The machinations behind this move run deep and are open to several interpretations.

The rate of M3 growth sank, and the whole system is devouring dollars with an unquenchable thirst. The Fed needs to keep liquidity in the domestic economy, and this move can be seen as just that. It is another shift of the The Titanic's deck chairs. The band plays on; the ship appears unsinkable.

Is this bill the lifeboat that US business needs before the dollar is allowed to FALL to ITS REAL VALUE?

There is off course one strategy to deal with the twin risks of a plummeting dollar and inflation. SOS - Save Our Savings - and get some gold! Use any weakness to build positions for the secular gold bull market!

----

Two very good articles that have been written recently are these please read them slowly you will find them extremely interesting.

www.whereisthemoney.org/S00223_collateral.htm and the second one is posted on our site, written by Gale bullock. The title is In the Eye of the Hurricane -- or Collateral Damage? Pheromones of Fraud and Debt



Sol Palha
TACTICAL INVESTOR
www.tacticalinvestor.com

November 10, 2003

END

Educational use fair Copyright

Comments: More smoke and mirrors from the Wiz's behind the curtain in DC. Nice little tax cut for the international elitist companies that bring us the likes of ChinaMart. Oops! Did I say "tax cuts" as in DECREASED GOVT REVENUE?? How's that gonna play out in the end.........?? Of course, one of the issues creating havoc with the dollar in the first place is the budget deficit, no?

Will this be seen for exactly the murky ploy that it is? A gigantic hand out to the well connected, robbing Jane and Joe to pay Paul? Maybe these funds wouldn't be repatriated w/o this 'incentive', i.e., we weren't gonna get the 35% paid taxes anyway?

Anyone have a good read on this issue? It is most interesting. I say that corporations deriving their business largely from U.S. citizens need to be kept US based. Otherwise they get all the benefits of US markets but escape the responsibilities of fair share taxes. Simplistic point of view, obviously.

Will this repatriation of dollars work?

[Edit]
Another dirty little lie from the District of Criminals @beesting, ALL -- journeyman, 08:51:48 11/08/03 Sat

Hi beesting, ALL!

Please understand, I really like and respect your posts beesting. And I'm also a Ron Paul fan - - - as much as I'm anyone's fan. And I agree with everyone who recognizes that QWERTY has the wrong priorities as to who he chooses to attack. But I am a much bigger fan of the truth these days, and so - - -

Once again proving Goebbles right, [1] the Washington D.C. [District of Criminals] liars [2] again intend to mislead us fools and dupes --- this time, as to what that $87 billion will go for.

Here's the first clue they're lying (if you really need a clue other than that their keyboards are clacking and their lips are moving):
WASHINGTON -- The White House acknowledged Monday that it substantially underestimated the cost of rebuilding Iraq, and that even the additional $87 billion it is seeking from a wary Congress will fall far short of what is needed for postwar reconstruction. ...
+
The White House divulged few details ... "Their constantly updated demands for money without any specifics suggests either that there are no specifics to the administration's plan or that they are so unpalatable that they don't want them publicized," said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
+
Pentagon officials have said the military is spending $3.9 billion per month on the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, or about $48 billion a year. ... Of the $20 billion earmarked for nonmilitary reconstruction expenses in Iraq, $15 billion would be allocated for infrastructure improvements ... ...
+
Senior administration officials, who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity, conceded that their initial projections of reconstruction costs proved too low and their estimates of Iraqi oil export revenue were too high. -White House Says Iraq Funds Request Still Falls Short, By Warren Vieth and Esther Schrader, LA Times Staff Writers, 8:01 PM PDT, September 8, 2003

And here's a more detailed break down:
      "This $87 billion is really just a down payment," said Scott Lilly, the Democratic staff director of the House Appropriations Committee and a military procurement expert. ...
+
"We assumed that operations would cease a lot earlier than they have," said an Army official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "They haven't ceased. ...
+
      That $3.3 billion [for military "reset"] is a small part of the $65.5 billion that would go to the Defense Department; the other $21.1 billion would go for reconstruction. Almost half of the defense money, $32.3 billion, would be used for fuel, food and other costs of combat and occupation, while $18.5 billion is being requested for reserve and National Guard salaries and other personnel costs. Iraq war costs escalate sharply, By Jonathan Weisman and Renae Merle, THE WASHINGTON POST, Sep. 13, 2003

Regards,
journeyman

NOTES:

[1] "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." -Chief Nazi "Information Officer" Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels return

[2] Remarkably, for women [Psychologist] Carrie [Keating of Colgate U.] has found no relationship between deception and leadership. ... But with adult males, as with children, Carrie has found an unmistakable connection. PBS - Scientific American Frontiers:Previous Shows:Transcripts:Show 301, The Power of Persuasion

"President Clinton is so successful because he's an unusually good liar." -US Senator Bob Kerry D-Nebraska

Frankly, I don't trust the president. I don't trust his motives or his judgment. After WWII, Vietnam and the Persian Gulf, I've become very skeptical of what our leaders tell the American people, critical of their intellect, honesty and motives, and disillusioned by the way they make decisions when it comes to war. . . . Bush the latest wartime president we can't trust, January 17, 2003, BY JUAN ANDRADE

Addressing assemblies of journalism students, a respected Sage of Journalism, I.F. Stone admonished his charges: "Only two words you should know if you really want to be an honest journalist, two words: Governments Lie." -Historian Howard Zinn, Tufts University, 2002 return

[Edit]
Time is short now -- Tree in the Forest, 08:08:57 11/08/03 Sat

May God bless those who have died for our country...and those who will die.

[Edit]
RossL -- auspec, 07:34:55 11/08/03 Sat

"AU-Speculating in these micro-juniors means almost no liquidity. One would have to buy when there are basically no bids and sell in the few moments when there is buying coming from somewhere. I have limited resources and need to "choose my battles" as they say..."

"Why should I do it when there is a happy medium somewhere inbetween the HUI big boys and junior Canada Wanna-bees? Somewhere they have some trading volume that I can play into. ???"

The only reason to go there would be that one is convinced that the "EVENTS" playing out by a particular company are worth the speculation. Let's look at EXN as a perfect example. Let's say they have 90 M shares out.......at .17 C that's a market cap of about $16 M.......pretty tiny. They actually go into production w a ramp sometime next year. This production/exploration should provide continued funds for exploration as needed, something they have severely lacked over the years.

What's the target "EVENT"? They're looking for an elephant, an Ojuela Mine look-alike. Finding same very well could end up being worth $1/2B to $1B to the company. Let's see..........how many times does $17M go into $500M...........??

If the events play out as hoped there is no longer a liquidity issue.........see SWG. Otherwise one must simply sell some into strength as Sinclair advises. If I were going to advise current investment in EXN {which I am unqualified to do}, I would advise current purchase with a strict intent to take my initial capital off the table if and when the stock doubles {it will likely do that when production/exploration kicks back up}. That's the best safeguard.........getting $ to safety.

So........the chart may be meaningles here, but company fundamentals tell the story. I spoke w a fund manager in N.O. and he was most interested in some explorers. He is unable to buy an .18c stock because he can't explain/sell it to his investors. Limitations. An .18c stock may just have plenty of cash and very strong fundamentals. The guy may end up with something higher priced but "worth" much less.

Exploration is risky pure and simlpe. Without professional advice I think it's foolhardy. By professional advice I mean credible pro's w a good track record. Brian Lundin's "Gold Newsletter", Paul van Eeden's letter, Bob Bishop, etc. Someone to tell when to buy, when to hold and when to sell.

Another thought.........say silver hits $5.50 and starts generating attention. The likes of IMA, BGS, MAG, FAN, & EXN will likely all move considerably higher on market fundamentals, not company "events". Money off the table, right? Simply gotta have some companies with a degree of staying power. Even though the vast majority of exploration plays end in complete failure that doesn't mean that one can't stack the deck in favor of success. Let's look at Kirkland Lake. They are a producer!! They are also elephant hunting. Nice combination w downside protection and upside potential. Let's look at Virginia........MANY properties being explored over a vast Canadian territory, excellent management and well funded. Sooner or later they will most likely find something of great significance. That is the exact same formula that brought success to SWG. They now have a world class discovery in China as well as one in Argentina........all in less than 1 year. They still have another 20 or so irons in the fire.

Buy "right" and take some profits when the market provides them. There are many other fine stories besides the ones I previously listed but the ones listed are still somewhat early stage, not having yet run to the upside excessively. Buying Nevsun at $2 or $4 is preferrable to buying it at current $9 or so. Knowing your personal comfort level w speculation is also a key. Panicking out of a stock prior to coming market events defeats the entire purpose, no? The junior field is vast and one CAN pick up the "moon shot" micro-caps or simply stay with the larger more liquid companies. I like to swing for the fence here and there, not losing sleep if I strike out {it will be a swinging strike not a called strike}.

Regards to Woody!!

NIA

[Edit]
Auspec -- RossL, 22:22:52 11/07/03 Fri

Just a quick note before I go away for a while... I looked at some other juniors to add to the charts page. Many are so small that the volume is non-existant and the charts look like chicken tracks. Worse charts than Excellon or Midway. Not a pretty picture.

AU-Speculating in these micro-juniors means almost no liquidity. One would have to buy when there are basically no bids and sell in the few moments when there is buying coming from somewhere. I have limited resources and need to "choose my battles" as they say...

Why should I do it when there is a happy medium somewhere inbetween the HUI big boys and junior Canada Wanna-bees? Somewhere they have some trading volume that I can play into. ???

[Edit]
RossL -- auspec, 21:52:20 11/07/03 Fri

Just for fun..........you might look @ SGC, Southridge. In less than 1 yr from .20 to $6 C. Son of Nevsun. Still going according to B. Bishop. It went from an empty shell to a major story in process.

Still, the stealth bull remains mostly BELOW the radar screen. Das gud. I look @ resource stocks as unfolding EVENTS which must be allowed to play out. Sure, they move with the physical and w general market enthusiasm but they really move when the goods are found. There are still MANY companies early in the process of finding the goods. What still astounds me is the lack of foresight by the major companies. Franco had $600 B before they became NuNewmont. At that point in the cycle they could have almost monopolized exploration properties or certainly had their pick of the litter, but NO, they chose to wait and pay multiples just like the average investor. Now, they'll want SWG or part of SWG and pay $1B or so. Sheesh!

I still think we're EARLY w many explorers because of remaining market scepticism. A few examples, just for the record:

Excellon {EXN}........diluted but still in the hunt for the monster silver mine, money problems largely behind them. .17 C

X-Cal {XCL}..........Up in price to .68 C, but still off the radar screen for all but the smart money who is in the process of giving them $21M. Drill results pending.

IMA {IMR}........Looking for a historic primary silver mine in Argentina. Drilling. Frivolous lawsuit. $1.90 C.

Ballad Gold $ Silver {BGS}........Reasonable silver exploration.

MAG Silver {MAG}.........Same.

Rimfire {RFM}.............Solid portfolio of exploration properties. .90 to 1$ C.

Virginia {VIA}.............Same. $1.40 C?

Wolfden {WLF}..............$5 C or so. Knocking on BIG doors.

Kirkland Lake {KGI}........$4 or so C. Same.

Radius {RDU}........Same. $1.60 C?

Bralorne {BPN}........ .47 C or so. Restarting production SOON and lots of exploration potential.

Farallon {FAN}........ .60 C? Recent movement of stock price suggests co frivolous lawsuit problem is behind them. Huge Mexican silver prop.

Almaden {AMM}...........$1.70 C? Again, LOTS of irons in the fire.

These are current thoughts as to what is best to "shill" @ this particular point in time. I own all of the above {home cooking}.......do your own due dilligence because I'm no investment advisor.

Happy speculating!

[Edit]
charts -- RossL, 20:33:11 11/07/03 Fri

My Big charts page has been renovated somewhat lately. I had to reduce the chart displays to speed up page loading, but I increased the links to preformatted charts. That is, pre formatted to the formats that I like to see. If anyone has suggestions I am open for requests... or for positive comments anyway...

Wow, look at that chart of MAGR and APLL. Defying gravity when the majors are pulled down? And what about Auspec's old fav Southwestern Resources? Is this one a hot potato or what?

And how about that NEM $900 mil offering? Maybe this will ignite the price of some junior explorers on the Canadian exchanges? eh?

[Edit]
@dotti – repeat after me -- Endgame, 19:24:53 11/07/03 Fri

My life is a movie. It is all that I am. It is all that I know. It is all that I can see.

All pictures and images that are presented to me, become me.

For as long as I follow and as long as I believe, there is no hope for me.

This is the pill that I must swallow in order to be set free.

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]
International Issues of Pertinency -- auspec, 19:09:12 11/07/03 Fri

From 2night's Midas commentary:

Bill,
Do you find the appointment of, Timothy Geithner, as the new President of the NY Fed a little disturbing? As a fellow gold bug, I would hope you would be concerned. Apparently Mr. Geithner is an expert in financial and economic crises with an emphasis in Asian currencies (Sounds like the Bush Administration will have Mr. Geithner working overtime to help resolve the disparity between the dollar and the yuan). Guess what he uses as his favorite instrument, to finance these crises? Yes, you guessed it….GOLD! Guess who he worked closely with from 1999 to 2001 during his stint with the Treasury? Right again…Summers and Rubin. Now are you disturbed?

After searching Google using the following criteria "Timothy Geithner" AND gold, it becomes painfully obvious that the newly appointed NY Fed President is no stranger to gold. Here is just a VERY SMALL sampling of the 54 hits found by Google:

Statement of Timothy F. Geithner before the Joint Economic ...
... Any drawing by the IMF gives us a sort of deposit in the IMF, which is of equal
value, pays interest, is supported by over $30 billion in gold, and which we ... www.house.gov/jec/hearings/imf/geithner.htm - 25k
Social and Economic Policy
... also seeks congressional permission to use IMF gold to finance some ... and delivering health care and education," says Treasury Undersecretary Timothy Geithner. ...
www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi-wto/imf/crits99.htm - 9k - Nov 5, 2003

G-8 Cologne Summit
... Steinberg, National Economic Advisor Gene Sperling, and Under Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner outlining agreements ... Q: Gene, what about gold sales?...
usinfo.state.gov/topical/econ/ group8/summit99/steinberg.htm - 37k –

If that isn’t enough to raise your eyebrow, start reading some of the hits. Most of them tell the same story of Mr. Geithner campaigning to monetize our gold reserves via the IMF or he is campaigning to borrow money against IMF gold to finance whatever crisis he is dealing with. Sounds like the same old story to me. Sell, lease or borrow against our nations gold reserves even though the FED shows roughly the same amount of gold in the war chest every year. When does it stop? Better yet, where’s the transparency in the bookkeeping?

Here are some conversations extracted from the G-8 Cologne Summit at the internet site mentioned above:

"MR. SPERLING: Should I go to gold sales? Part of the funding is the sale of up to 10 million ounces of IMF gold. I believe the total amount is 104 million ounces that the IMF

[later in the minutes]

Q: Do you approve the gold sales? Does Congress have any say in this?

MR. SPERLING: Yes, they do. Congress has to authorize gold sales.

[later yet in the minutes]

Q: Gene, a quick question about gold. Is there an actual time period over which the gold will be sold? Is there a schedule? How is that going to work?

MR. GEITHNER: If and when gold sales are approved by the U.S. Congress and approved by the IMF membership, they would design a carefully phased program that would take place over a number of years and would be designed to carefully minimize any effect on gold prices. The IMF has sold gold in the past, in quite large magnitudes, quite successfully without limiting, without much affect on price.

Q: How much is the worth, about $2.5 billion, is that right?

MR. GEITHNER: You know, the way this works is we're not selling the gold and using the proceeds. We're selling the gold and investing the proceeds and using the income that those proceeds generate over a number of years. And the income stream from those proceeds are now projected at current levels to be worth about $2.8 billion

GATA Soldier from Spokane
Brian


Global: Another New Paradigm

Stephen Roach (from Hong Kong)

Nov 07, 2003

Bull markets are very tantalizing and, in the end, quite persuasive. They encourage investors to jump on the momentum train -- lest they be left behind at the station. They also bring out the creativity in strategists, economists, and analysts to explain why the good times will persist. Sometimes that creativity goes to excess. That was the case in the Great Bubble of the Roaring Nineties. And I fear it is the case once again, today.

The current New Paradigm goes something like this: Global imbalances don’t matter. Never mind, America’s unprecedented current account deficit -- let alone massive current-account surpluses in Asia. Pay no heed to the shaky foundations of a saving-short US economy and its runaway federal government budget deficit that lies at the heart of America’s massive external imbalance. Don’t worry about the ever-rising overhang of private sector indebtedness in the US, especially for the household sector. This is what the New World Order is all about. America is supposed to consume beyond its means, as those means are delineated by the economy’s domestic income-generating capacity. Awash in surplus saving, a demand-deficient rest of the world will gladly finance America’s gaping external imbalance -- and will do so willingly and in a relatively costless fashion. The result will be open-ended foreign demand for dollar-denominated assets. US Treasuries -- the most riskless segment of this superior asset class -- will benefit the most. That will keep US interest rates low, providing even more support to American aggregate demand. In a unipolar world, the dollar -- the world’s reserve currency -- can’t fall. After all, what other currency could rise?

Asia is particularly enamored of this New Paradigm. That’s to be expected. After all, Asia has taken the lead in funding America’s gaping external imbalance. China and Japan, alone, accounted for over $150 billion of net purchases of long-term US securities in 2002; in the first half of 2003, their combined demand hit nearly $120 billion -- nearly double the pace in the first half of 2002 and enough to fund nearly 45% of the entire US current-account deficit over that period. The thinking in Asia is that this is a mutually advantageous relationship: China, for example, benefits from selling goods to American consumers, and the US benefits from getting low-cost, high-quality Chinese products that expand private sector purchasing power. China gets paper in response -- and US Treasuries have a natural bid. It’s the ultimate in global virtuous circles.

Nor is this New Paradigm without its own semblance of theoretical rigor. A recent research paper issued by America’s National Bureau of Economic Research lays out the analytics of a sustainable US-centric world (see "An Essay on the Revived Bretton Woods System" by M.P. Dooley, D. Folkerts-Landau, and P. Garber, NBER Working Paper 9971, September 2003). The authors argue that the model the world relied on to finance the post-World War II reconstruction of Japan and Europe is now hard at work in producing the same results in Asia. Undervalued exchange rates -- first in Europe and Japan, and now in Asia -- are thought to drive this next phase of an extended Bretton Woods era, the postwar arrangement of the modern day international financial system. The outcome is portrayed as nothing more than the accumulation of paper assets -- this time in the form of Asian foreign exchange reserves that can then be conveniently recycled back into Treasuries. As was the case in the early years of the post-World War II era, this newfound revival of the Bretton Woods system should simply be viewed as the means by which poor countries on the outside looking in ("the periphery") reap the benefits of outward-oriented trade and eventually join the family of wealthy industrial countries ("the center"). According to this theory, the imbalances of a US-centric world economy are merely the paper trail of economic development. So why worry?

The ultimate trial of any New Paradigm comes from the unintended consequences that arise along the way. They provide the stress test that any theory must withstand. I firmly believe that such a test is coming for the US economy -- now the world’s debtor of first and last resort. And I also anticipate a challenge to Asian economies that are now accumulating massive reservoirs of official reserves. Such reserves don’t come out of thin air. They are the functional equivalent of excess liquidity creation that has the clear potential to spill over into product or asset markets. That, by the way, is a particularly important distinction between the first phase of the Bretton Woods era and the one we are supposedly in today. Richard Duncan, author of The Dollar Crisis (Wiley , 2002), points out that while total international reserves increased by only 55% over the 1949-69 period, since 1969, the increase has been more than 2000%. In other words, lacking the anchor of a gold-backed currency, today’s post-Bretton Woods system of international finance is far more biased toward excess liquidity creation and a related potential for asset bubbles. Unfortunately, the record speaks for itself -- Japan’s monstrous bubble, a multitude of asset bubbles in pre-crisis Asia, and, more recently, the property bubble in China. I have a hard time calling this the ultimate virtuous circle of a dollar-based world. Nor does there appear to be much virtue in a regime that encourages the United States to embrace a growth strategy characterized by an unprecedented drawdown in net national saving and a concomitant build-up of household sector indebtedness.

But the real problem with New Paradigm thinking always seems to come from the collision with a totally different strain of forces -- the external pressures that crack the self-reinforcing logic of the so-called virtuous circle. Look no further than the equity bubble of the late 1990s. It ended up infecting the real side of the US economy -- severely distorting IT capital spending to the upside and setting the stage for unexpected carnage on the earnings front. Today, in my view, it could well be the global labor arbitrage -- the root cause of a jobless recovery and a mounting political backlash. This tilts the playing field toward trade frictions and protectionism. It also undermines America’s domestic income generation -- having the potential to push the debt-servicing capacity of the overly indebted US consumer into the danger zone. For a US dollar that is valued largely on the basis of the perceived superiority of the American system, the impacts of the global labor arbitrage strike right at the heart of the latest in New Paradigm thinking. It draws the confidence in a faith-based currency into serious question.

Ultimately, the imperatives of global rebalancing could well pose the greatest challenge to those who believe that there’s nothing to fear from today’s unprecedented strain of massive external imbalances. A successful rebalancing must entail a broadening in the global support to domestic demand. But that then changes the terms under which the tradeoff between dollar- and non-dollar-denominated assets is based. To the extent that surplus saving in the non-US portion of the world would then be increasingly diverted into financing improved economic growth in home markets, there will be less left over from that saving pool to fund America’s current account deficit. In such a climate, the United States could well have to pay a higher premium in order to attract increasingly scarce global capital. That spells higher real interest rates in America -- precisely what the Old Paradigm of current account adjustments predicts and yet the very last thing this so-called virtuous circle and a still fragile US and US-centric global economy needs.

At the end of a two-week tour of Asia, I am struck by the region’s newfound confidence and complacency. As was the case when Nasdaq lurched toward 5000, new theories now abound as to why the fundamental rules of economics need to be re-written in order to accommodate a persistent state of global imbalance. I was early in resisting the frenzy back then and could well be in a similar position today. Yet the Old Paradigm tells me that ever-widening disparities between massive current account deficits and surpluses are not a recipe for sustainable global growth. It’s just a matter of when the music stops. Danger is most acute when market excesses give rise to well articulated New Paradigms. We have now entered that phase of this unbalanced world.

END

Comments: Don't ya just know that IMF gold could receive the same treatment as the various cbs'gold..........off record transactions? These guys are flat out UNTRUSTWORTHY.

When a one world currency IS in place it will not nearly matter as much about the various trade deficits and imbalances............I think that's pretty much the way the 'wise ones' are looking at the current mismatches...........nothing that can't be papered over when the time is right. I'm totally FED up w these blokes.

Copyright permisso

[Edit]
@All -- dotti, 18:54:29 11/07/03 Fri

I feel so honored that so many of you have responded to my issue. Just the fact that you have responded makes me feel good. Below are my specific comments to each of you.

First things first. Qwerty. Even if I did not approve of a battle site, I would fund the troops that were there. No brainer.

Number Six: Ron Paul has chosen to defend the Constitutional mandate to use gold and silver as money. What would free us more than for that to happen? We have been raped and plundered by the PTB using the banking system. Fair money would restore a basic freedom.

I absolutely LOVED this paragraph:

Numver Six: “But while I admire your efforts to go after difficult targets, (because pointing out the evils of Perle or the Bushes is like shooting stink in me sneakers,) still I think you're hitting the wrong targets. As I've tried to explain before, that Gandhi bastard never spoke up about the oppressed eskimos, that Jesus fellow might have healed a few leapers but what did he do for the region's hundreds of diabetics and dipsomniacs? - surely if he had miraculous powers he could've set up a clinic of some sorts - and that Buddha prick might've earned a 2000+? year following, but his rise to popularity in the US is strongly correlated with the rise in obesity, which blights the lives of so many.”

Good for you for writing such wonderful satire!

Jomama: “I know that's tuf, and prolly makes no sense to u.”

Dotti: yep.

Beesting, thanks for your enlightenment.

Flinter, for me, this is undoubtedly your best post to date. It hit right at my heart. It made me realize why I am TRULY a red pill person. I cannot be anything else. I was born under the influence of the red pill. It also explains why I—growing up in the house with my two older brothers (both blue pill specials)—I remained a red pill person—sometimes even against my own will.

Wow. I nominate this for a Five Star Award. Any seconds?

RossL. What can I say. I don’t think that I have ever nominated anyone for Five Star status, and now I want to nominate both Flinter and you. What a marvelous post. I very much appreciate the thought that went into it. When I have time to sit down and compose an essay for my brother, your post will be the seed that grows into a (perhaps small) oak. (smile)

Frisco Fred. Absolutely marvelous quote. A jewel.


Take care, All

dotti

[Edit]
@journeyman - and by the way -- Endgame, 18:51:42 11/07/03 Fri

Those scottish guys would have also done much better on this gene test except they have no 16th chromosome.

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]
@journeyman, 12:01:06 11/07/03 Fri – the real number one -- Endgame, 17:57:24 11/07/03 Fri

SNIP
P.P.P.S. With apologies to my Polish friends, whose gene pool includes the second highest concentration of "smart" genes on the planet.
ENDSNIP

And probably by an order of magnitude. The reason is located on the 16th chromosome.

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]
Ron Paul - Economic Woes Begin At Home -- Netking, 17:01:44 11/07/03 Fri

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2003/tst110303.htm

enjoy.

[Edit]
@ALL -- Frisco Fred, 16:02:33 11/07/03 Fri


Lively postings today -- Stirs up my right lobe.

Reminds me of an anecdote:

A book entitled "100 Authors Against Einstein"
was released and A.Einstein's remark on hearing about the book was, "If I were wrong, then one would have been enough!"

The windmills are turning,
Fred

[Edit]
ATR -- RossL, 15:45:49 11/07/03 Fri

In the last couple days I ventured ATR for the first time in a few months. I couldn't help but notice that there is another discussion going on between the faction that says "gold is money" and the ATR establishment that says it's not.

(The ATR establishment being the NEW Aristotle who is nothing like the old Ari who posted there a few years ago. Somehow this new Ari exactly toes the line that Randy draws, subsequently Randy doesn't do "opinion posts" any more.)

Despite the fact that paper fiat money does not fill all the qualifying features that gold money does, as stated by Goldendome

Properties of money:
1) Intrinsic value
2) durability (indestructible)
3) Divisibility
4) Portability
5) Fungibility (sameness and interchangeable)
6) Limited in supply, but not so limited as to be unattainable.

It's funny that this is the same topic that got me booted from ATR two years ago. Now there is a new crop of posters making the same statements and getting the same uppity drivel in response.

The more things change the more they stay the same. This group says "gold is not money" because they don't want the party to end.

~~~
"Gold is the only money the world has ever known" Sounds like a simple thought but it isn't .
" Money is whatever people say it is" - Not true!
"Currency is whatever a government says it is" - True!
- ANOTHER Oct 09 1997 19:00
~~~

[Edit]
Dotti -- RossL, 15:41:07 11/07/03 Fri

Hi Dotti, sorry I write so little, but I have been so busy in the last 6 months that I barely have time to scratch out a few sentences any more. Much information on the events leading up to the great depression can be found in Griffin's book: Creature from Jekyll Island. This book is very readable and is easy on the economic-speak language. It is hard to imagine how a non-fiction book on the Federal Reserve could be entertaining, informative, and so engrossing that you won't want to put it down, but it's true.

I will try to summarize and explain my analogy from yesterday.

The united States Constitution and the Coinage act of 1792 defined specific weights of gold and silver as monetary units in denominations of dollars. This is still law, but has been ignored for most of the last century because it is not convenient to the bankers and politicians. This is the same concept as muggers and rapists ignoring the law because it is not convenient for them, regardless of their moral responsibilities or the rights of other fellow people.

The u.S. Constitution forbids the federal government to issue bills of credit. At the time this was widely acknowledged to mean that there would be no paper money. After some passage of time the Supreme Court declared it to be OK for the feds to issue gold and silver certificates that represent and are covered by the physical gold and silver in the vaults.

After some more passage of time and I'm skipping a lot of the history, the politicians and bankers pass the Federal Reserve Act. This is the cabal. A collusion between bankers and politicians. It gives the banks a monopoly in return for the politicians' ability to spend as much money as they want without regard to how much gold there is in the vaults. The banks get protection from bad loans and are bailed out when things go bad. The citizens pay for it all with a currency that is constantly diluted.

The situation in the 1920's was that the requirement that federal notes be backed by gold or silver was still in force. This was commonly still called the gold standard, but technically was not after the Fed Reserve act was passed, but we won't go into picky legal details right now.

Morals and responsibility in government went out the window by this time. Banks and politicians could create money by printing it and (theoretically) could have a party that never ends. We could dance without ever take a break and booze without ever having a hangover! This is the promise of Progressivism. Progressive modern man didn't need the fiscal constraints of hard money. The elite few could paper over failures and society could move on and prosper ever upwards. Politicians still propagate these lies and people still believe them. You can't print up dollar bills and create wealth. But I digress...

The obligations represented by dollar bills grew rapidly while the supply of gold did not. Banks and politicians had a party spending paper money. Easy money through unbacked loans brought on a boom time and many people got rich. I should say, some people got rich while others got stuck with the tab. The sleight of hand occurred when the damage was spread out across the entire economy. It was hard to identify a victim or perpertrator.

However, the requirement that our paper money be backed by gold or silver put a big damper on the party. How inconvenient that law was, requiring moral and responsible leadership in Washington and New York. People worldwide started demanding the gold and silver that the notes represented. The party ended for the time being. The fact the precious metal backing didn't exist is a crime against humanity just the same as mugging and rape.

Well, we all know a great party can be had by spending someone else's money. And, the inevitable bust follows the spending boom. The bills come in after the teenager takes the credit card to the mall. How inconvenient that is to require morality and responsibility in the use of credit! If we didn't have to pay the bill we could go on spending forever, couldn't we? That may seem absurd but it's exactly the mentality of the people who claim that the gold standard was one of the causes of the depression.

Sorry for rambling on for so long. My question is: how can this still go on and on for so long? The people allowed FDR and his Supreme Court to continue on with the Progressive printing money and partying because it was popular. It is still popular and it won't end until we fall down hard. This big lie is continually propagated by politicians promising something for nothing.

Now Greenspan says the Fed bankers and the government cannot control the growing supply of dollars. Pandora's box has been opened.

~~~
Many will lose all they have in a world without honor!
- ANOTHER, Sun Dec 07 1997 18:45
~~~

Note: Anything I may have used or referenced in this essay I consider to be: Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

[Edit]
feds report -- volavka, 13:38:40 11/07/03 Fri

puppets borrowed 3'x the expected 5 billion, up to 15.5 billion.

puppets plastered paper . The plastic wonder passes to fantasy land.
default, dollar falls, gold marking time.Monday she will go.

[Edit]
Walk Away -- Flinter, 12:56:45 11/07/03 Fri

"Ignore it and it just might disappear."

jomama, that is my tack as well.

I can't "fix" the system, because there shouldn't be a system.

Just walk away. Live my life...without the distractions.

Sharing the truth...yes. But truth is extremely simple...and not to be found on CNN. That is something we owe the universe...and which sustains the universe.

Besides, the system is all illusion. Reality (OK my reality) is where the fun is.

Best,
Flinter

[Edit]
Hi journeyman. -- beesting, 12:43:49 11/07/03 Fri

Good to see you posting again. Thanks for the up-date.

The reason I called qwertys post a "Dis"-Information is because in his post he never gave a reference to his source of information, and only posted what appeared to be an excerpt from a news release here on the forum, therefore I stand by my original assessment that his post of(19:07 Thu) taken by itself, looks to be in the catagory of a "Slander", to Ron Paul.

It's my understanding that Washingtons version of "dirty politics as usual" is added perks that may or may not change the meaning of the original bills. I don't watch T.V. at all so something mentioned on T.V. fits the catagory of,"word of mouth", which seems un-admissable on a written forum discussion.

Thanks for posting........beesting.

[Edit]
Flinters “Truth” theorem -- Flinter, 12:33:37 11/07/03 Fri

OK, I think maybe it’s time for this.

Flinters “Truth” theorem: YOU CANNOT LIE TO A COMPLETE HUMAN BEING!

No, it’s not a truth serum...it’s a truth THEOREM.

You already KNOW the truth. You know when you are being lied to. You know “good” from “bad”. You know healthy from unhealthy.

And you know all this about EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE.

I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

Don’t believe me? Do a google search on “kinesiology”. Read and think to your hearts content. Oh, you’ll likely see lots of...ahh...”conflicting” views. But, test them yourself (giggle).

Hey dotti! Remember our dialogue over the role/importance of “Art”? (has it been years already?). Or, all, remember how much weight I put on creativity? Read on, I will try to tie these things together (a bit).

But, let’s back up first.

I did have a kicker in my theorem: “a Complete human being”.

Maybe I should have said “human mind”, but “human being” is more appropriate.

You see the mind may not know, but the body does. How can this be? How can the body “know” anything, much less (gasp) something that the mind does not!

Because your mind is crippled. You only use one half of it...the left lobe. The lobe that needs to be TOLD...because it can’t KNOW, it can only DO & RECORD, and of course OBEY.

It is the right lobe that “knows”.

Left lobe = structure
right lobe = essence

Human consciousness has been shifted from a whole brain balance, to a left brain centricity. In fact, modern medicine will tell you that.... without active use of the right lobe... the neurons that bridge the two lobes DIE.

Then “you” (your conscious YOU) really are stuck on the left. That side that is “told” the truth.

Get through to the right lobe, and it likely can fill you in on what the body already knows.

Divide and conquer now has a whole new meaning...eh?

The two most critical issues producing what we have been calling the “matrix” is this disconnection of the right lobe. This is why it is so “critical” for “those who would lie” or control, to.....:

Get kids away from their parents and into the left lobe factories we call public schools.
...and get those kids OUT of the home (and into “organized” activities) ASAP,
...and keep those parents BOTH WORKING, and away from the kids (and contributing to the “economy”).

A family unit, it seems, is far to conducive to producing whole brain children.

Science, the mechanical universe science, has firmly supported this...the left lobe emphasis and right lobe disconnect.
Up until now, the quantum universe sees differently (http://www.mtnmath.com/rvhtm/node1.html)
...read up on quantum physics (or the slime mold...always promoting my little buddies).

And culturally, two extremely important trends are growing:
...Home schooling (now compounding/growing at 12% per year
...A declining “Workforce”...people dropping off the “employment” gig. (now at 24 million)

Ok, I could go on and on (words don’t really “work” very well here...being symbols et al), but you get the picture. Something BIG, is still “Down There” to be discovered...something that is the Source of your knowing. But, hey, that’s why you are here....be sure and take the challenge.

The vertical world sits firmly on the left lobe, the horizontal awaits the building of bridges (called brain lateralization)...hey! Horizontal bridges.

Those neurons are just waiting for a chance to re-grow.

So, there you have it, Flinter has finally gone off the edge...
...which would be True!

Fade to Light,
Flinter

PS: The above is pretty presumptous...if not downright insulting. I've always warned you about my presumptuousness (wow, hard one to spell!). Take with appropriate salt, we are all voyage in our own way...especially me...haven't avoided any crashes yet.

[Edit]
QWERTY, Beesting, & Ron Paul @ALL [jomama] -- journeyman, 12:01:06 11/07/03 Fri

Hi beesting, QWERTY, ALL

The bad news is that the FIRST $87 billion "rebuilding" money is for BOTH Iraq AND Afghanistan. The second part of the bad news is that, last figures I saw, ~$62 billion was to keep U.S. troops in Iraq and "only" $25 billion was to fix Iraq infrastructure (which is only half of the $50 billion in damages the D.C. terrorists self-admittedly inflicted on THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ -- not on Saddam as the militaryindustrialmedia would have us fools and dupes believe.

Regards,
journeyman

P.S. But Ron Paul is one of the good guys none the less. Do you bomb the crap out of people for no even remotely legal or moral reason and then just shrug and walk away?? Maybe. But maybe not.

P.P.S. And QWERTY, you seem to practice the "Polish Defense Strategy:" When the native Americans attack (as they should), circle the wagons, everyone draw your weapon, face center, and wait for some poor sucker to make a false move.

P.P.P.S. With apologies to my Polish friends, whose gene pool includes the second highest concentration of "smart" genes on the planet.

P.P.P.P.S. Nice work here lately jomama!!!

[Edit]
Jessica Lynch Says Military Manipulated "Her Story" -- Dis-information busters are us, 12:00:46 11/07/03 Fri

That's IS what Jessica said, but WHAT was "her story", I mean apart from "the story" coming out in the $1 million dollar book publication. Little Al thinks she was raped amongst other things, yep she fought 'em all off single handed, what a gal, sheesh! Sometimes the truth hurts, huh.

This is a gentle dis-information bust:
Lynch Says Military Manipulated

Or shall we go straight for the facts, read all of this link, real interesting.
Jessica Lynch a fake

[Edit]
qwerty, thanks for providing the forum with a "Classic" example of YOUR DIS-INFORMATION!!!!! -- beesting, 09:09:34 11/07/03 Fri

In your 19:07 Thu. post to beesting you did a very complete job of sub-verting (twisting the truth) about what Ron Paul really voted on to the point of SLANDER!!!

Let me repost parts of your 19:07 to show the reading audience what I'm talking about:

(Snip)WASHINGTON - The House delivered a broad but ambiguous rebuke to President Bush on
Tuesday, voting in favor of loans to Iraq and improved medical benefits for veterans and military reservists.

beesting now writing, if anybodys been following this 87 billion loan story, they would know it was ear-marked to RE-BUILD Iraq infrastructure(water lines, electricity, roads, etc.)It has nothing to do with paying for the American WAR machine as Mr. qwerty suggests.
**********
more of qwerty's press release.....but it highlighted a restiveness over Bush's insistence that U.S. rebuilding aid to Iraq be a grant, not a loan...

beesting.....Key word....REBUILDING!!!!

qwerty's news release...Both legislators representing the Victoria area, Ron Paul (R-Surfside) and Ruben Hinojosa
(D-Mercedes), voted in favor of the resolution.

qwerty wrote,,,"ron paul voted to fund the manufactured war in iraq"
*************
qwerty, you're so far off the mark about the TRUTH here that I think if Ron Paul ever read this(since you used his name) he would have the legal grounds for a SLANDEROUS lawsuit against you.

From Websters...Slander: The utterence of FALSE charges which damage or defame anothers reputation...

Ron Paul has never voted "for" any war the U.S. has/is involved in......He is a member in good standing(as far as I know) of a nationwide group called physicians AGAINST WAR!!!
He has repeatedly voiced his opposition to the American involvement in what he calls"UN-NECESSARY & UN-CONSTITUTIONAL" wars.

If you want to "flame" somebody go after Bush....he's "the man in charge".

qwerty, here is a number out of the phone book you might try
calling to HELP sort "delusional things" out:
....1-888-511-7283.

regards..........beesting.

[Edit]
Flinter & dotti - Yes, yes...The Red Pill -- jomama, 08:52:43 11/07/03 Fri

Damn.

See what I mean by making mistakes?

Flinter, Red, red, red. Thanks for pointing
to my mistake.

I take the Red Pill.

Dotti, as Flinter says, "The Truth is inside u."

Lying and mistakes abound in this upside down world.

I got enuf trouble handling my own mistakes and dealing
with the lies close at hand.

Why would I want to deal with those from afar?

U vote, u support some dude's ideas who runs for office,
u validate the system [Matrix].

U even look for a dude the "will save us all", u validate
the system.

U "believe" in gummint, u validate the system.

Ignore it and it just might disappear.

I know that's tuf, and prolly makes no sense to u.

But,

think about it.

[Edit]
hAug -- on Ron Paul, 08:34:46 11/07/03 Fri

Judging from some of the recent posts, it appears qwerty must be writing about Ron Paul again.

It was soon after qwerty started posting here that it became obvious that the guy is a crank. Around that time, he posted a few things in regards to Dr Paul that showed a profound ignorance into Dr Paul's positions, deeply held philosophical beliefs, and taboo issues which he has not been afraid to publicly address, including Waco, Oklahoma City, Israel, the Fed, the income tax ... you name it. Ron Paul took on such issues and continued to increase his margin of victory in his district each Congressional election despite having the Republican establishment working against him.

Not everyone is going to have the time or inclination to do in-depth research on persons or issues, but to have any credibility, one needs to do some of that before making unfounded claims and charges. A qwerty type is going to show up on forums like this from time to time. That's part of internet life. Personally, my time is too valuable to spend reading nonsense so my finger remains on the scroll button.

hAug

[Edit]
re Qwerty re Roo Paul -- number six, 05:28:34 11/07/03 Fri

Qwerty, I think Ron Paul is the best of a bad lot. All in all, I think he's good - and he's coming from a vastly different ideological and cultural perspective than me... but basically, I think he's wholesome. Unlike the rest of the sinators and con-gressmen, who for all I know, might well be the alien lizards from "V" but with expensive suits.

Schumer is the one I can stand the least, especially after that "Waco: Rules of Engagement" film, which was on prime time govt-owned tv twice here, and we're USA's third or fourth strongest allies, "apparently." (Unfortunately SBS rates only one or two %, unless it's the soccer or South Park.)

But while I admire your efforts to go after difficult targets, (because pointing out the evils of Perle or the Bushes is like shooting stink in me sneakers,) still I think you're hitting the wrong targets. As I've tried to explain before, that Gandhi bastard never spoke up about the oppressed eskimos, that Jesus fellow might have healed a few leapers but what did he do for the region's hundreds of diabetics and dipsomniacs? - surely if he had miraculous powers he could've set up a clinic of some sorts - and that Buddha prick might've earned a 2000+? year following, but his rise to popularity in the US is strongly correlated with the rise in obesity, which blights the lives of so many.

Literally, no one is good enough.

Now for all I know, Ron Paul eats the heads off babies with all his fellow legislators, but I reckon he's just doing that to fit in, gotta go along to get along to some degree; just like all of us who've played a bit part for the Matrix.
Tyler Durden (of Fight Club fame,) still went to work at the cinema and ripped off the dolts who like hollywood, Jonathon E still rolled around the Rollerball track, Johnny Rotten still signed a contract with EMI. Everybody is compromised. Everybody. Purity is unproductive. Put me in another universe and I'll be untainted by the inequities of this one... but then I couldn't help this one either.

If Ron Paul was just another disgruntled Texan semi-libertarian with a website, no one would've heard of him. But as a congressman, his speeches are read by millions around the world. And he's said a few good things. But like all of us, he's got to choose his battles. I too wish he'd choose one of the more pointy ones... but he's certainly contributing. But when you or I are contributing more than he, then maybe we can hang sh^t on his efforts.

But yeah, is he some sort of Pseudo-libertarian Cfr limited- hangout? There to absorb our anger, and deflect our attention and vitriol??? Could be, could be. But my hunch is, if the congress of US was full of Ron Pauls, the world would be a drastically better place, and that's about the best one guy can do.

As for him compared to Mackinnney, well, he's a Republican, and hell will freeze over before any of them criticize Isn'treal. Frankly, I don't think it's his fight, and neither does he. He's argues one or two principles that obviously apply there, but knows when to be subtle. Mackinney had a constituency behind her asking for those questions, so she could put her balls on the line in that way.

(errrrm.?)

[Edit]
dotti -- qwerty, 05:22:09 11/07/03 Fri

===
Qwerty, thanks for your input. I’m afraid that I continue to disagree with a basic premise of yours—there is no way for the American people to know the “truth” when they receive a constant diet of lies. The only way for any major change to occur is for someone to come along—an Alan Keys, perhaps—who will be powerful enough, charismatic enough, to make an impact.
===

so how can people perceive the truth

when they "receive a constant diet of lies"


===
BTW, Ron Paul cannot take on all issues. As a parent, I realized that I had to choose my battles—I could not forbid everything that I may disapprove—I picked my battles very carefully.
===

ron paul has picked his battles carefully and that is how he has aided and abetted the treason against america and still maintain his pro-liberty and independent image

he carefully navigates around the most sensitive issues

===
In November, weeks after joining just five other Republicans voting against giving Mr. Bush authority to go to war, Mr. Paul was re-elected with 68% of the vote
===


ron paul voting money to support the iraq war that he supposedly opposes is but one contradiction ...

people just hear their favorite sound bites and bits and refuse to process the rest

when he votes for the nest funding package for homeland security, what will be the excuse then

and there will be a hundred next times and then what

when will the ron paul supporters begin to wonder

i think ron paul is against the military draft ... is he going to vote funding for that too

will most of ron pauls district votes overwhelmingly for bushw again ... if so, what does that say about ron paul's stands ... anybody really think he will be in the fore front of exposing WTC 911 treason or just hiding from the issue


===
Well, qwerty, you got me. I don’t think that they are the same. I watched the Impeachment. I think there was a difference.

===

you have the overwhelming majority of americans on your side

and the middle class will still feel like you years from now even after the democrats nd republicans conducted an economic campaign of "shock and awe" on them

i would never waste my time debating the issue because its been obvious for decades for anyone willing to look

i'm just a voice in the wilderness on this issue and will vote with my feet when economically viable

[Edit]
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