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financial post feed the sheep -- qwerty, 13:39:05 10/01/03 Wed

========
Financial Post - Wednesday October 1, 2003

By Steve Maich

Analysts rate gold stocks

The United States is headed for record budget deficits, Washington's strong dollar policy is crumbling and the economic prospects for much of the world seem to be hanging by a thread.

Sounds like ideal conditions for the price of gold to rise, and hence a perfect time to buy gold mining stocks, right? Not exactly, according to analysts John Tumazos and Jared Muroff at Prudential Financial.

Mr. Tumazos and Mr. Muroff released a study of the gold mining industry yesterday, and they conclude that the biggest players are already fully-valued or overvalued based on their outlook for the price of gold.

"It appears that the gold stocks are trading not on the current gold price, but on bullish expectations for the gold price where it could cross US$500, US$600, or even US$700 an ounce," the report says.

=========

the story above is for the sheep

best to let the sheep in later at much higher price

it wouldn't be a true bull if they came in now

if the sheep came in too early, it could do technical damage to the golden bull since they are easily scared

one wants the smart money and strong hands as the base

once gold gets over 530 then it's time to signal the sheep to buy in

that along with some big money manipulation on the upward side will be the money which propels it to extremely high levels

the golden bull will continue and that's what the financial post article really confirms

[Edit]

PM fiat pricing thoughts . . . . -- Ag_Eagle, 10:51:59 10/01/03 Wed

Silver will go up sooner, faster and further than gold.
Problem is, you can't discuss silver as being a nation's wealth; there's no national pot, and it's at a valuation of 1/77th of gold...Ted Butler says silver can go up to $100/oz. easy.... or a factor of 20....gold could explode by a factor of 10 to 94. Well, if gold goes up to 25K, and silver goes with it, but to 1/5 ratio to restore the imbalance and renew the above ground supply, then can we see $5,000/oz silver? A factor of 1000??? Silver is found in the ground at a 6:1 over gold, or up to 10:1 in history . . . all that's from the articles at gold-eagle. How's this for a price target....From 1970 to 1980 gold went from $35 to $850, when gold was 7 times undervalued. This was an increase of a factor of 25 times. 25/7 = 3.5 times above the undervaluation mark...$35 x 3.5 x 7 = $850 Follow me there? So, IF gold is now undervalued by a factor of 94, can we see it go up in the next ten years by a factor 3.5 times the 94? or $270 x 3.5 x 94 = $88,000/oz.? And silver 1/5th of that? Or $17,600/oz.?

Really, if you had all the silver you needed, and paper was burning up at a rate to produce such an exchange rate, would you convert all your silver holdings and be content to hold electronic credits again? I think that's the real issue, not the price. Think of this: If you were to move to Mexico, would you be willing to exchange all your dollar savings so that you could hold everything in the form of electronic bank credits of pesos? No? Then why hold dollars today at all when you can hold gold or silver? I think I'd convert silver to gold if the ratio went much above 1/5th the value of gold. I think it can hit higher than that, even reaching parity, 1:1 ratio for a brief time to rebalance above ground supplies... but not for the long term, gold is just more scarce. I will certainly expect silver to be valued greater than the historic 1/15th of gold on average.

[Edit]

Excerpt from Ayn Rands Book. -- beesting, 10:46:11 10/01/03 Wed

An address by Francisco from an Ayn Rand book.

Click Here For Full Text
(Snip)
"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would
choose – because it contains all the others – the fact that they were the
people who created the phrase 'to make money'. No other language or
nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of
wealth as a static quantity – to be seized, begged, inherited, shared,
looted, or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand
that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the
essence of human morality.
(Unsnip)
Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

.......beesting

[Edit]

noon time bop in gold -- qwerty, 10:03:25 10/01/03 Wed

it's a signature of the cabal to bop gold between 12 noon and 1:30 pm est

[Edit]

Things & Services Will Be Priced in Amounts of Gold! -- beesting, 09:35:16 10/01/03 Wed

Remarx of USAG posts a question that has long lingered around these chat sites:

Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of
international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
(Snip)
Remarx (10/1/03; 07:51:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 109657)
What happens afterward?
I have recently joined the ranks of those who are believers in gold. But I am having trouble
envisioning what happens when gold does reach a price peak relative to currency.

Whether it is US $450, $850 or $3,500 (assuming you have identified the peak correctly), is one
supposed to sell for paper at that time before it drops? Or should he/she continue to hold it
irrespective of the market price because of its long-term stability?
(Unsnip)

Answer:
When the worlds monetary revolution ends(it has already started) goods and services will be (RE)priced in increments of Gold//Silver!!!! Believe It!!!
...........beesting.

[Edit]

Chart of who "owns" the Federal Reserve -- Netking, 01:15:49 10/01/03 Wed

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

enjoy.

[Edit]

beesting -- $hifty, 22:48:50 09/30/03 Tue

Hey beesting the BUZZ I hear is the new currency is going to show up Oct 9.
I wonder if they say Federal Reserve Note ?
I guess we find out in 9 days.

$hifty

[Edit]

LIBERTY! -- beesting, 20:44:17 09/30/03 Tue

It is my understanding that all "paper" currencies issued by governments and or Central Banks are ultimately the property of the issuing entity.
Therefore it is possible the issued curriencies "could be" withdrawn from circulation, re-evaluated, deemed worthless, or modified at the convenience of the issue-ing entity.

Now for some strange reason the word "LIBERTY" kept popping into my head when I was formulating this message about money, which caused me to dig out the dictionary and re-look up the different meanings of the word liberty.
Two of the many meanings jumped out at me which I consider pertinent to the Gold discussions.
liberty-1. c: freedom from arbitrary or despotic control.
2. e: the power of choice.

Now it seems to me at this point in time the worlds Central Banking systems have indeed siezed despotic control of the worlds paper monetary systems with the exception[s] of the the newly formed DGC's, which brings us to the second meaning of liberty,"power of choice".

If we say the exchange of money for goods or services is actually an exchange of "wealth" for goods or services we can plainly see exactly why Gold/Silver emerged as the money of choice for the people that demand and strive to achieve liberty for themselves and their families.

So now I know just exactly why most of the official Gold & Silver coins of every denomination minted between about 1800 & 1907 in the USA were called the "LIBERTY" coins.
Liberty coins made of Silver & Gold meant and represented,,,FREEDOM!!!

Thanks For Reading..........beesting.

[Edit]

Longshot -- auspec, 19:11:10 09/30/03 Tue

Cubbies vs Red Sox in Series? The jinx would be off.............for only ONE.

[Edit]

Veneroso -- goldustorm, 16:28:10 09/30/03 Tue

LOL
I knew they put something in his meals when he came out with those $600 statements with a straight face. Or else they have some old videos. NIA,yada,yada

[Edit]

gold -- volavka, 13:33:02 09/30/03 Tue

should have already took out 400.

The TPO (turning point oscillator) registered + and the dd (daily differential) is inverted.

Tonite/tomorrow 400+
Close to Inversion , with it you would have a million to one trade (never wrong in 25 years of trading).

[Edit]

silver -- Netking, 12:56:52 09/30/03 Tue

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bond/bond093003.html

[Edit]

veneroso -- qwerty, 12:42:34 09/30/03 Tue

===

"I think the central banks don't want an exploding gold market. I think there are a lot of weak hands in the gold market. So the odds favor a correction of gold prices."

===

it's curious he has been quiet for so long

probably a couple of the cabal guido's paid him a visit back then and told him to shut up or else

his correction comment seems to be an effort to buy more time for the cabal and smooth out the rise over a longer time and also provide belief it was the free market beat down gold if the cabal unloads a couple thousand tons on the market

people keep calling for a correction down for contrived reasons

thing that irks me is that they never call for a correction up and the supposed implication is that it is free market forces

gold has been bopped down so many times by govt intervention that it is rediculous and they get called corrections when they should be called govt manipulation

the only losers in this game will be the taxpayers and possibly the longs who at minimum still have to pay taxes on their winnings to the cabal

[Edit]

number six patience -- volavka, 11:00:34 09/30/03 Tue

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/news/articles.asp?guid={453E52D0-A19C-45B1-83B2-07C4A9421CA0}&newsid=807415547&orig=charting&time=8&symb=MAGR&sid=1296049&source=htx\http2_mw&source=htx\http2_mw

[Edit]

GATA consultant Veneroso tells Calandra: Banks still intervening against gold -- gata, 10:50:33 09/30/03 Tue

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

CBSMarketWatch Editor Thom Calandra has interviewed
GATA consultant Frank Veneroso for The Calandra Report,
and excerpts from the interview have just been posted at
CBSMarketWatch.

Veneroso affirms that central banks are working desperately
to suppress the gold price. He tells Calandra:

"How do I know this intervention continues? There are 500 or
600 metric tons of speculative long positions on the COMEX,
but that is the tip of the iceberg. The big market is the
over-the-counter market. The total net speculative position
is probably many times what we see on the COMEX.
Thousands of metric tons? Who is taking the other side of
that trade? In the old days, it used to be the producers,
setting up their hedge books and selling forward. Now
they're covering hedges. Who else? There are gold
dealers, and a lot of the people think these are the
short-sellers in the market. After the price spike in '99,
they have closed such positions. So there is only one
possible counterparty now, and that is the official sector.
This is just like currency intervention."

You can find the excerpts from Calandra's interview
with Veneroso here:

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?
column=Thom+Calandra's+StockWatch&dist=nwtwatch&siteid=mktw

Or try this abbreviated link:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/117

The interview excerpts probably will be posted at the
CBSMarketWatch home page shortly under the
"StockWatch" heading:

http://cbs.marketwatch.com

Expect gold to tank down anytime SOON.

[Edit]

455 before friday -- volavka, 07:17:03 09/30/03 Tue

moon.

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 04:32:19 09/30/03 Tue

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Lots of good stuff to share with you tonight....

* GATA Chairman Bill Murphy's "Midas" commentary at
LeMetropoleCafe details today's unnatural trading in gold,
the dollar, and the U.S. equities markets, all of it
spelling "m-a-n-i-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n." While the "Midas"
commentary remains proprietary as of this hour, you can
read it for free if you take a two-week free trial
subscription here:

http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/

* MineWeb's Tim Wood reports new details on the World
Gold Council's bullion fund:

http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B285256DB0006DA7
AC?OpenDocument

Or try this abbreviated link:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/263

Wood's WGC bullion fund story is on MineWeb's home
page but I'm having trouble calling up the home page
tonight, and maybe others are too:

http://www.mineweb.com/

* Wood also has MineWeb commentary on the direction
of the gold price:

http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B285256DB0007689
9B?OpenDocument

Or try this abbreviated link:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/264

* Last but not least are Jim Sinclair's three commentaries
dated today: "Gold Market Summary: A Very Short
Defection/Reaction," "The Defection/Reaction," and
"Closing Market Commentary." Sinclair seems inclined
to think that gold will pass $400 in the next two weeks.
You can find his commentaries here:

http://www.jsmineset.com/

It is best to scroll to the bottom of Sinclair's home
page and read his commentaries from the bottom up, in
the order in which they were written today.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

Who Said it? -- auspec, 03:46:24 09/30/03 Tue

"Make sure you're right.............then go ahead!"?

The gold and silver guyz are about as "right" as one can be these days.

[Edit]

hey volavka -- number six, 03:24:39 09/30/03 Tue

that magr mob are only up 500% since you first mentioned them here 6 weeks ago. It's not good enough! I need 10 baggers goddamit! ;)

[Edit]

Forex -- Netking, 01:55:44 09/30/03 Tue

Up from Monday's low of 1.1394 against the USD to last at 1.1671 . . . some bad forex numbers forming in brutal quick time for the shorts . . . somethings going to break very soon & it aint going to be the physical metal. Resistance taken out, looks to be clear air through to 1.1930 region again. August/September 1992's Eur 1.45 is now on the radar screen . . . some serious days ahead with resulting structural changes therewith in store.

[Edit]

Silver & Gold train wreck - Jim Puplava -- Netking, 01:43:33 09/30/03 Tue

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/archive/2003/0929.html

[Edit]

@qwerty -- goldustorm, 21:36:31 09/29/03 Mon

Nice work. Ed Henry's latest also says citizens have evaded responsibility...
http://www.etherzone.com/2003/henr093003.shtml
PAYING TWICE
PEOPLE LOVE DOUBLE TAXATION
By: Ed Henry
Pretty soon we'll be able to pay for our groceries at the super and then when we cart them home there will be someone there to make sure we pay for them again. Won't that be nice? It should fit right in with the taxes we are already paying twice.
And President Bush can conduct fundraisers all over the country where it costs $100 to $1,000 to get in and another $100 to $1,000 to get out. All this is consistent with what the government is doing now, the double taxation rip-off.
For example....

Every employer in the country pays unemployment taxes. When people are laid off, fired, get a pink slip, or are simply downsized, they have the right to draw unemployment for at least six months while looking for another job. That's what the tax is for, and that's the way it's supposed to work.
Unemployment compensation is an entitlement. Workers are "entitled" to draw temporary unemployment benefits because those benefits have been paid in advance by their employers. The money is supposed to be there, invested and growing, but waiting to be used in hard times. At least, that's the way it's supposed to work.
In the good times, in the days when the country had minimal unemployment, employers were contributing more than was necessary. They were sending the government a surplus. They were contributing more than was required to pay benefits to the unemployed.
In those good times, the government could have at least temporarily reduced unemployment taxes or they could have left it alone and invested the surplus just like they invest their own money in the Thrift Savings Plan for federal employees. An investment system, managed by Barclay Bank of Great Britain, which has produced as much as a 28 percent return on investment and last year, during a sour economy, still managed to produce a 17 percent return for our happy participating representative federal government people.
Had the government invested former unemployment surplus contributions, or allowed Barclay Bank to invest it just as they have the bureaucrat's own money, these surpluses would likewise have grown.
But alas, that's not what happens. Instead, our crafty politicians and bureaucrats have devised a scam that makes Enron, WorldCom, Arthur Andersen, and other private sector crooks look like children playing in a sand box. They pretend to "borrow" the surplus.
Despite the fact that it is physically impossible to both spend and save the same money, our federal government, the people who work for us, actually want you to believe that's exactly what they do. It's that flagrant. Here's the way it works.
First, they take the surplus money and spend it. Poof, it's gone, never to be seen again. For our purposes here, it doesn't matter what they spent it on. It could have been spent on war. It could have been spent to keep lobbyists happy. It might even have been spent on something worthy or good for you. No matter what, it's gone.
Here's the despicable part.
Without contract, without so much as the slightest permission from the so-called lenders, the con artists deposit "special obligation" nonmarketable Treasury bonds in an equally phony trust fund dollar-for-dollar for the money stolen, the money that they are pretending to borrow and have already spent.
They often call these "IOUs" but they are more properly UOUs because there is no one who can redeem them, pay off this debt, except the taxpayer.
Don't let the language fool you. These are debt markers deposited in a debit black hole account that is part and parcel of the national debt. They are in a category of phony trust funds deliberately mislabeled as "Intragovernmental Holdings" to make you believe that the government owes itself or one governmental department owes another.
In reality, with any entitlement where taxpayers contribute a surplus—we are buying debt. It's the same as walking into the U.S. Treasury, plunking down a fistful of money, and saying: "Here, give me some debt so I can pay again later, plus interest."
Currently, as of the end of August, 2003, there is $2.8 trillion worth of these bogus bonds accounting for 42 percent of the national debt. Most of these (92 percent of them) are tied up in 19 different entitlement accounts, Social Security being the largest.
The other eight percent are perks for government. A subject in itself.
The entire "Intragovernmental Holdings" section of the national debt, $2.8 trillion of the national debt, could be eliminated tomorrow and no one would suffer except the Beltway Bandits.
I suppose we should be thankful that it's only the smaller accounts that are being drawn down today. When the big ones, like Social Security, require their bogus holdings, the taxpayers of this country will be in deep doo-doo.
Here's what has been happening this year, right now, as you read this:
Source: U.S. Treasury Monthly Reports
As you can see, there has been a total withdrawal of $24 billion in debt markers from the Unemployment Trust Fund so far this year. And where did the deficit (in red) money to pay benefits to the unemployed come from?
It came from the Treasury's general fund of current taxpayer dollars on hand or money borrowed from investors. Either way, you paid for it. You paid the same tax employers paid previously, plus you also paid interest on any debt markers that had been sitting there for more than a year.
If this $24 billion wasn't borrowed legitimately from investors, raising the national debt and putting the burden to repay it on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren, then it came right out of money that should have gone for education, agriculture, housing, health care, or any and all elements of budgeted discretionary spending—your current income tax contributions.
Given the huge increase to the national debt this year, the real deficit, you can be pretty sure it came from honest contractual borrowing from investors, both foreign and domestic. The people who stole this money in the first place now borrowed from foreign and domestic investors in order to pay it again. It's all on your tab.
What's more, during the two months when "receipts" were higher than "outlays" the bandits got some more loot to feed their spending habit. Of course, a sizable chunk of this was interest paid in May. Interest against last year's holdings. Interest that was paid by simply handing the phony trust more phony bonds in order to continue the "borrowing" fraud.
Why don't you try this with your home mortgage? That mortgage is probably being held by the federal government anyway. Your local bank or banking conglomerate probably sold it to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, or Sally Mae who are government businesses and your bank is now just acting as their agent.
Spend the premium money on yourselves and the kids, then print up some pretty "Joe Six-Pack Bonds" and send them to the bank. Tell them to stuff them in a trust fund for awhile or at least until they've got the money to redeem them. See how far you get.
Of course, no ordinary citizen has the power to carry this off. No matter how authentic your "Joe Six-Pack Bonds" look, in no time the sheriff is going to be coming to your house to evict you.
But when the federal government does it, you love it. If it were criminal, the millionaire talking heads of television would be all over it like flies on a road apple, right? People like Wolf Blitzer, Paula Zahn, Ted Koppel, and all of the other high paid monitor readers would be protecting you, wouldn't they? (If Katie Curric makes $14 million a year, what do you suppose the really big guns are paid?)
And don't forget to watch the New York Stock Exchange and the bond market so you can tell how well things are going for these millionaires. These are sure signs that you must be doing better too, right?
The real problem comes back to the people. It rests squarely on the shoulders of working Americans who do nothing about it and actually go out and vote for more of the same because there isn't one candidate from either party that addresses this injustice. There's only one conclusion that can be drawn from such behavior. The people must enjoy being screwed.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
"And don't forget to watch the New York Stock Exchange and the bond market..." Ahhh, nothing like a bag of FDA red #5 and yellow #1 cheez doodies, a leather stratocaster and a nice bottle of aspertame-laced, psychedelic purple, passion pop. Ahh, the mind drifts... U.S.A., U.S.A.- baseball, apple pie and gameboy play. Never mind the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights and Constitution. Too many channels, too little time and NO history lessons. YUK!
And we've got the greatest economy. The NY Stock Exchange and bonds says so. And the baddest military cause everyone jealous... Ahh, the pleasure of fumbling for the "recline" stick in the pilot's chair... how many doodies did I have? Got me... Can't be too many cause they don't fill me up... man do they make me thirsty.

[Edit]

IDIOTS 2 -- qwerty, 20:25:04 09/29/03 Mon

the idiots have no qualms about ...

having politicians outsource their jobs

having politicians give work visas to immigrants so they can be layed off or their pay downsized

having the government confiscate guns

having quarantine camps

having their currency debased

[Edit]

IDIOTS -- qwerty, 19:54:13 09/29/03 Mon

>Unless the idiots in govt change the tax structure you're are going to get the most massive DEPRESSION

the only idiots i see are the ones supporting the politicians

the idiots have no qualms about ...

allowing treasonous politicians to represent them

having a federal reserve create the money supply out of thin air

paying the bankers interest on money created by their own government

allowing the insiders to create a massive leveraged pyramid ponzi scheme

allowing the looting of trillions of dollars from the pentagon

supporting boondoggle defense projects which does nothing to protect the country

drinking fluoridated water

getting cavities filled with mercury

getting HIV treatment

getting radiation and chemotherapy

getting a vaccine shot

getting treatment for HIV AIDS

eating GM food ( or not being aware they are )

supporting their representatives who voted to allow them to be involuntary subjects to experiments conducted by the pentagon whether biological, chemical etc

supporting their representatives who are complicit in the manufacture of wars

fighting in manufactured wars

waving the flag in support of manufactured wars

allowing the culprits involved in the terrorism against the US to lead the war on terrorism and represent them

allowing the culprits involved in the drug trafficking to lead the war on terrorism and represent them

watch TV to find out what news is going on in the world

allowing the FDA to suppress alternative medicine

allowing the state medical boards to attack alternative medical doctors on bogus charges

allowing suppression of energy devices

paying high energy bills caused by theft and corruption

allowing their politicians to loot the public treasuries

allowing the taxpayers to subsidizing the losses of major banks

allowing the nih, cdc and pentagon to help cover up the origins of many diseases and suppress their cures and preventions

allowing the government to carry out an ongoing COINTELPRO

allowing the continuation and suppression of MK-ULTRA

supporting the Patriot Act

supporting the creation of homeland security

supporting pentagon world wide program to help instigate acts of terrorism in order to expose terrorism

allowing the FDA and CODEX to carry out attacks on alternative medicine

allowing the government schools to educate their children

allowing innocent people to be sent to prison

allowing their politicians to loot their assets

allowing the government to create crime and fear

accepting that we have a media that is not controlled, censored and filtered

accepting corruption on a massive scale

getting real angry when someone steals a loaf of bread or vandalizes a sign

supporting the president

supporting most of congress

supporting most of the supreme court

supporting the tax structure and irs

supporting homeland security

thinking gold as an investment is just plain stupid

with so many IDIOTS, the USA is TOAST

[Edit]

Frightening Out the Weak Hands....... -- auspec, 18:37:41 09/29/03 Mon

.........is NOT a viable long term strategy.

[Edit]

Whizzin in the Wind -- auspec, 18:19:54 09/29/03 Mon

Gold cartel is. Not a pretty sight {4 them}.

[Edit]

dr v {not dr H] -- auspec, 17:30:54 09/29/03 Mon

Try a google search of the Co called Revitorgan.........you will find that the Germans have been doing similar work to your posted reference for decades. No need to use human cells for the most part because their is sufficient cross communication amongs all mammals. They have used sheep cells and cellular entities successfully to treat human diseases.

Fool Americans are re-inventing the wheel, Totally ignoring anything outside the US such as Japan or Germany. Pity.

Like with "Transfer Factors" where immunity is induced to a specific disease within cows, cells are isolated and then ingested by humans who then receive the immunities.

I imported Revitorgan substances well over 12 years ago until the FDA started confiscating everything I brought in, including plain saline water. FDA is a protectionist organization and their turf is the US Medical-Pharmaceutical Industry. No surprise there.

[Edit]

Here it comes -- volavka, 17:02:22 09/29/03 Mon

Stones, The massive jobless recovery.

Unless the idiots in govt change the tax structure you're are going to get the most massive DEPRESSION YOU'VE EVER SEEN.

THE SNOWMAN SNOWBALLS.
When gold goes, it's going right thru 425 to 455.

[Edit]

alice in wonderland -- volavka, 16:21:18 09/29/03 Mon

white rabbit harvey:
http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/29/content_268457.htm

[Edit]

Are u ready??????? -- volavka, 15:33:17 09/29/03 Mon

tonite we ignite.

[Edit]

ETF -- qwerty, 14:18:52 09/29/03 Mon

===
At the heart of the day-to-day running of a gold exchange-traded fund would be Bank of New York, the trustee. The bank, according to the prospectus, would have to "monitor
the trust's on-going expenses and sell the trust's gold as needed to pay the trust's expenses (gold sales are expected to occur approximately monthly in the ordinary course), calculate the net asset value of the trust and receive and processing orders from authorized participants to create and redeem baskets and coordinating the processing of such orders with the custodian and the Depository Trust Co."
===

the trustee, who is part of the cabal, would be at the center of the equite gold fund ...

plotting more evil, of course

why don't we put "crazy eddie" as trust

[Edit]

Silver - Butler -- Netking, 11:43:44 09/29/03 Mon

The Solution By Theodore Butler

http://www.investmentrarities.com/weeklycommentary.html

Quoting from the e-mail (and the CFTC's web site), this is what the CFTC plans to do if COMEX silver contracts can't be delivered against:

".... the Commission has broad emergency powers under which it can order the exchange to take actions specified by the Commission. Such actions could include limiting trading to liquidating transactions, imposing or reducing limits on positions, requiring the liquidation of positions, extending a delivery period, or closing a market."

[Edit]

Here's your sign -- volavka, 08:55:31 09/29/03 Mon

dollar down hard, if gold stays weak to down they'll lock it limit and force margin

[Edit]

Your morning smile -- Galearis, 08:44:31 09/29/03 Mon

The CABAL is leasing heavily today to try to cap the silver price. Notice how the two month
silver lease rate rose ten times the present rate for one month gold. IMO they are
leasing gold too, from an entity with the initials USTD . This wouldn't necessarily show up in the L.R.s now would it? (Smile)

The Euro is also on a tear with the USD tanking big time! Why do I get the feeling that those in Asia knew this was going to happen? Bad timing for the cabal, who HAVE to keep gold and silver (especially silver) in the tank.....and headed back down to maintain their favourable T.A.

Regards,

G.

[Edit]

To Da Moon -- volavka, 07:49:55 09/29/03 Mon

good read by North @ 321.

Have u joined the Church of the Holy Deficit?

DEFAULTS THEY'RE COMING, RUSSIANS TOO....

[Edit]

Shaky nerves about gold? Jim Sinclair has something to tell you -- gata, 02:21:42 09/29/03 Mon

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

In two commentaries tonight, Jim Sinclair addresses those
with shaky nerves: "Insiders Selling Into Gold Rise" and
"Sunday Evening Gold." You can find them here:

http://www.jsmineset.com

[Edit]

Ponzi Correction -- $hifty, 01:46:58 09/29/03 Mon

Ponzi down 222.69 from last week.

$hifty

[Edit]

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 01:38:12 09/29/03 Mon

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,792.07 + Dow 9,313.08 = 11,105.15 divide by 2 = 5,552.57 Ponzi

down 110.72 from last week!

Good to see you back RossL!

Thanks for the link

Go GATA !

Go GOLD !

Go Golden Comets!

$hifty

[Edit]

Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 00:24:07 09/29/03 Mon

[Edit]

Typo Correction -- Previous Post.. -- WebMaster: Rex, 00:22:28 09/29/03 Mon

"ER Wearger and"

should read:

"ER Weather and"

[Edit]

ER Website Vanished.. What Next? -- WebMaster: Rex, 00:19:41 09/29/03 Mon

Make my day!

All of my website files have vanished from the OS2Eagle.Net server.

Even the FTP directories are blank.

The hosting server is doing some transfering activity, but
it's supposedly completed by now.

Will have to wait and see if it all reappears magically at
some future moment.

ER has an emergency backup ("mirror") site, for times like this:

EagleRanch Mirror Website

You can bookmark that, as an alternate site to get
the ER Wearger and Charts and Forum Menus etc etc..

..Rx

[Edit]

stalker -- qwerty, 20:31:22 09/28/03 Sun

6.2 billion dollars about 490 tons of gold at $380

[Edit]

@HBM -- goldustorm, 20:12:38 09/28/03 Sun

Hi! Good points.
Been shifting small quantities of silver to gold. Like you say, doesn't pay till the deed is done. Action speaking louder than words.
I've done this shifting numerous times, stating on the forum "a little bit" or "some", but it's usually from small silver quantities(less than $1 or $2 grand) to gold. Not since spring though.
Usually bullion, but I traded several rolls of outperforming (common date) early Morgan and '21 Morgan and '22-'25 Peace silver dollars for gold @$300 -$320.
My core is still approximately 75% gold, 25% Ag due to exposure to financial and physical security risks. But I am now contemplating trading a few hundred ounces or so of Ag bullion bars and rounds for common-date U.S. silver dollars, because if J. Puplava is correct and silver only goes to $10.00 in the next 12 -18 months, then the dollars will lead the bullion. But not if silver becomes the energizer bunny. Then the dollar numismatic premium would go farther invested in Ag metal at near melt, as I see it...
It's just play money, and I'm not into gold numismatics either. My SEMI-NUMISMATIC holdings are a couple dozen fairly common date AU & MS 60 and 61 pre-1933 U.S. $20 and $10 pieces and some BU common date foreign Sovereigns, Angels, etc. But they can turn back to numismatic like they were for years. Now, as you may know, certain dates of the early U.S. gold eagles in half and quarter ounce have become decidedly numismatic- some even doubling in value. The greysheet(Coin dealers newsletter or CDN) is what my dealer uses to check these values. Other sources are available, but sometimes a dealer will share his CDN info with his better customers.
And just tonight, my brother and I were astonished at some Ag bid and close prices on Ebay. This confirms that Ag is in an infant bull market, along with other anecdotes I hear of physical Ag demand lagging gold at dealerships. Regards

[Edit]

goldustorm @ endgame sight Post #: 1652 9/26/2003 5:58:31 PM -- HBM, 17:00:48 09/28/03 Sun

goldustorm Post #: 1652 9/26/2003 5:58:31 PM

Hey, my friend. I was reading your post at endgame’s sight and was a bit puzzled by a comment you made.

You said: “I've really lightened up on silver and it's paid off, in part thanks to you. I wouldn't be surprised to see gold continue to
outperform silver.”

Could you please explain how lightening up on silver has paid off. Did you sell some silver and purchase gold with the proceeds with it? Did you stop accumulating silver and replaced planned accumulations with gold instead?

To what period do you refer when you infer that gold has outperformed silver? It is my understanding that investing does not in any way “pay off” until the investment has been liquidated and turned into some other type of holding, be it fiat currency or otherwise.

HBM

[Edit]

Sinclair Article -- auspec, 13:26:58 09/28/03 Sun

You'll see a casual mention of the good dr of chinese {Au} medicine mentioned in that article.

[Edit]

Gold last week bounced off the top and bottom of its up channel, Sinclair writes -- gata, 10:34:34 09/28/03 Sun

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Jim Sinclair argues that nothing much happened in
gold last week except perhaps for the panic of some
gold shareholders. In his Saturday commentary,
"Saturday Coffee and the Gold Market," he writes:

"All that's happened so far is that gold touched the
overbought top line of its up channel and when it
backed away the Cartel jumped on it with Morgan
as the lead seller. Seeing it being hit right under that
technical analysis level, the gold traders also jumped
on it, creating a shark-feeding type of selling which
followed through the next day.

"Buyers moved in on the oversold side and it went out
at the close having hit both sides in two trading
sessions. That means gold is displaying the character
of outrageous volatility, which is exactly what happened
in the late '70s as gold approached $400.

"It means to me much higher prices are coming this year
just like it did when that happened in the '70s. It also
means that leverage in gold is not for the majority of the
gold crowd."

You can find this Sinclair commentary here, at the bottom
of his home page at this hour:

http://www.jsmineset.com

[Edit]

Sign the petition for Silver -- Netking, 03:04:42 09/28/03 Sun

http://www.petitiononline.com/comex/petition.html

[Edit]

Barter -- FriscoFred, 22:53:20 09/27/03 Sat

The year is 2005, I am gathering fallen leaves for my mulch bed. A man comes walking by, sees me and walks over. "Sir," he says, "I have been walking for the past two hours on my way home and am hot and thirsty. I surely could use a glass of water. I couldn't bring any on my walk, because I am being very careful with the little I have left."

"No problem," I answer and go into the house and pour out a large glass of water. As I walk out toward the man, he already has his hand stretched toward the glass. "That will be 1/2 ounce of gold," I say.

"But I am saving my gold waiting for it to hit $6000 an ounce. And that is only water."

"Okay, when gold hits $6000 an ounce, come back and you can have $3000 worth of water. Paid in gold, of course. You see, I have more water than I do gold. This way, we'll both be getting what we want."

Blowing in the wind,
FF

[Edit]

Bush Lays Off Congress -- PeterA, 20:38:05 09/27/03 Sat

September 28 2003 by Jay Slupesky Reuters International

Wash. D.C.-- Citing the growing cost of running the Federal government and the need to cut costs in order to reduce the budget deficit, President Bush announced today that he has layed off all 535 members of Congress and has transfered lawmaking operations to a legislative support center in Bangalore, India.

"Outsourcing is the way to go these days," said Bush at an impromptu news conference where he announced the decision, adding, "The American people want to see less government waste. Since every one of those ex-Congressmen had a salary of $150,000, this move will cut our costs by over $80 million per year, and that's not even counting what we'll save on health insurance and retirement plans."

Sources indicate that the Indian replacements will be paid approximately $250 per month. The outcry from the newly laid-off Senators and Representatives was swift. Ex-California Senator Diane Feinstein said, "This is absolutely outrageous. How can a bunch of replacements over in India run Congress? What do they know about filibusters and committee hearings?"

As she was being escorted out of the Hart Senate Office Building by U.S. Capitol Police officers, Feinstein complained that the newly-terminated lawmakers were only given 10 minutes to clean out their desks and leave the building.

"I think it's a great idea," said Vice President Dick Cheney, speaking from a secure undisclosed location. "The American people were fed up with an expensive, do-nothing Congress that refused to give the President everything he asked for. Our new Indian replacements will be much more cooperative to the President, which is what we all want."

Asked whether the outsourcing may be unconstitutional, Cheney noted, "That's up to the Supreme Court to decide, but they never pay much attention to the constitution anyway. To us, it's a 'living document' that needs to go with the flow."

The new members of Congress seem thrilled with the attention they are receiving. Speaking from the offices of All-India Legislative Support Centre Ltd. in Bangalore, new Mississippi Senator Ramchandra Shektar Gupta told reporters, "The Indian people are very hard working and we will do our best as U.S. Congressmen and Congresswomen. And we are going to have some fun too. Just think: we have $2 trillion of the American taxpayers' money to spend!"

[Edit]

beesting -- qwerty, 17:15:02 09/27/03 Sat

yes ... the japanese savings ... forgot about that ... some of that going into gold ... even just 1/2 percent

combining chinese, japanese and eventually american investors .... WOW ... really mind boggling to even think about it ...

silver will skyrocket too... the "poor man" metal

soon there will be a day when the tables will be turned

... we will tell people that being in metal at such high prices is rediculous ... inspite of that, they will look at us as crazy for not buying gold at the bargaion price of $6700 an ounce ... they will not know we sold it to them

[Edit]

Hi qwerty, -- beesting, 14:50:06 09/27/03 Sat

This is something else that cought my eye in the article from China by way of Gata.
(Snip)
Xi noted that Japanese investors have been buying in
substantial amounts of gold since the beginning of this
month,
(Unsnip)
Which caused my brain wheels to start spinning again.
The Japanese currency has appreciated the last 2 weeks. What if the Japanese see the writing on the wall for the U.S. dollar crash and are going after China as their main trading partner for the future?

It's possible they could be slowly selling dollars and somehow buying Yuan (big time)[and also small amounts of Gold] which would make the dollar depreciate and the already appreciating Yaun appreciate further.Further more the Japanese known as the worlds best savers could//would turn some savings into Gold once it is established that the average Chinese saving//buying public are also committed to doing just that.(exchanging paper money for Gold)

It wouldn't take too many years for all the Western worlds Central Bank Gold to be used up in exchange for paper currencies under this scenario........Just glad my family has been in Gold accumulation mode for the last few years.........beesting.

[Edit]

beesting -- qwerty, 12:27:52 09/27/03 Sat

i also agree

the china news on gold was the best thing i heard in a long time also

if the china govt, china elite and china masses purchase, that will pretty much pound the final nails in the suppression of gold prices ... that would deplete whatever gold is left down to empty vaults

a lot of money on the table by the masses would have the financial cabal appetite whetted ... conspiring to fleece the masses who get into gold ...

i would expect gold prices to go extremely high since the way to fleece the masses is create a mania, push gold prices up to rediculous levels, have the masses get real excited to put their money in something priced at rediculous levels and then pull the rug from underneath them ...

but in the mean time, it will take years to build up supplies

one possible scenario for cabal would be ...

the need to keep MOST of the masses scared, apathetic and apprehensive about gold until at least $600 ... just get some of the masses in after that

to keep most of the masses out, have a lot of volatile corrections to create fear about investing in gold

then through the controlled mainstream media, tell the some more of the masses to come in at $1000 to $1200 ... print a lot of stories on how gold will be $6500 or more an ounce to whet their appetites

when gold goes to $2400, some of the masses see gains and they tell their friends who eventually buy ... pushing the metal up ...

have some more volatile corrections back down to $800 to squeeze out the weak hands and a lot of profit and then continue past $2400 to $4800

soon gold will be like real estate ... no price is too high ... the skies the limit ... eventually it crashes to prechter's $200 price ... good time for gold bugs to jump in and get some cheap insurance and give to their grandchildren ... although eventually recovers to $600 at least

[Edit]

PeterA -- qwerty, 11:43:17 09/27/03 Sat

"Fletcher Prouty, a former colonel in the US Airforce who worked closely with the intelligence agencies, once said: 'No one has to direct an assassination -- it happens. The active role is played secretly by permitting it to happen. This is the greatest single clue. Who has the power to call off or reduce the usual security precautions?' "

[Edit]

Comparisons of the Rome before the Fall with America before the Fall -- GannMan, 11:41:04 09/27/03 Sat

Don't think twice about the late week correction in the precious metals after gold hit $392, silver hit $5.34, palladium hit $234, and platinum touched $730 per ounce, because it is only the pause that refreshes in a market steadily gaining momentum to the upside. This is when more investors should be stepping up to the plate with new and additional purchases, but the majority of investors still don't get it. Watching the new bull market unfold in the precious metals is like a father in the delivery room rejoicing at a new whipper-snapper coming into the world. Many of us insiders in the bullion industry have been forecasting this day for years now, as many as 5 to 6 years for some of us, and the feeling of self-satisfaction at being right could not be greater. This is not a smugness that comes from elevated ego, but comes from having done years and years of research and analysis in a very Financial-Asset-Centric World and from having come up with the correct likely outcome. Investing, as in running a business, is all about probabilities. The odds were historically against a continuation of the Status Quo New Era of Speculative, Leveraged Investing and toward a rebirth of demand and price gains for Tangible Assets. And that new bubble of some 3 years now, the Real Estate Bubble, is squarely in the former speculative, leveraged category than in the latter. While tangible in form, real estate price gains and excessive leveraging will prove as ethereal as the Dot.com bubble of 2000. There are many signs of an unraveling of this bubble as evidenced in the Affordability Index, months supply in inventory, and firming mortgage rates. Not a reversal yet, but setting up for one.

When we fail to study history, we tend to repeat it. That is, we tend to make the same mistakes over and over again because we fail to see parallels between the here and now and the there and hither. One of my favorite comparisons with America Today is the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. While I am a modest scholar of this study of human events, I do see several glaring comparisons of the Rome before the Fall with America before the Fall. From my recollection, here are some salient similarities:

1. Loss of Integrity, Morality, and Civility throughout the populace.

2. Overt Efforts to Cheapen the Currency of the Realm.

3. Corruption and Self-Enrichment at all levels of Government.

4. Over-extension of the military on both a geographic and financial basis without a consistent foreign policy.

5. Assumption of an air of superiority and omnipotence at the very time the fundamental underpinnings of the country are deteriorating as evident to all who cared to look carefully.

I am sure there are more parallels, like the concentration of immense power in the hands of a few, but these are enough to make the point. THE BARBARIAN IS AT THE GATE, FELLOW AMERICANS, AND HE IS US. Our Founding Fathers would be sickened by the America of Today for they were men of the highest of ideals who put theory into practice in the formation of this once great nation. The road to salvation will not be an easy one. Many lives will be ruined from both an emotional and financial standpoint. And the worst is yet to come in the economy, the financial markets, and the governance of this Romana Americana.

Okay, spare me the tomatoes. I will get off my High Horse or Bloody Pulpit, but this entire environment we have so carelessly created for ourselves is one in which the Precious Metals really shine. Putting together an investment decision to purchase an asset, especially a non-financial or non-paper one such as Gold, Silver, Palladium, or Platinum, is like putting together the pieces of a fundamental and technical puzzle. AND WAITING FOR THE PLANETS TO ALIGN.

WELL SPORTS FANS, THE PLANETS HAVE ALIGNED!!!

Once again, for those of you who have had the immense pleasure and ultimate edification at reading my missives for the last 3 years, I apologize for being the proverbial broken record. But education is a science of repetition until the tenets of knowledge sink into the rather thick, stubborn, and prejudicial cranial region of Homo Sapiens. Ah, to be right on most counts of prognostication. And don't forget that Cognac is one of my favorite beverages at Christmas time.

Here are the "PLANETS" lining up like glorious ducks in a row to put us into one of the strongest bull markets in precious metals the world has ever seen because the gravitation pull of the cumulative effects of mass is overpowering:

I. Debasement of the Currency of the Realm: With the conscious and excessive creation of Insta-Dollars throughout the globe through Monetary Policy, Fiscal Policy, and Import Mania, the die is cast for the Dollar to begin its next significant downleg. Already in the span of two weeks, the Dollar has lost 4% of its value against a basket of competing currencies. The metals become the only viable alternative when investors and businessmen increasingly distrust the Full Faith & Credit postulations of sovereign states. Especially in an environment of Beggar Thy Neighbor Currency Debasement Wars and the resultant Trade Wars that we are well into.

II. Historic Risk in the Global Financial System: No one puts forth the argument in statistical and analytical verse better than Doug Noland at www.prudentbear.com. He is an astute student of the debt and credit markets and that my friends is the Achilles Heel (can I mix Greek and Roman mythologies?!!) of our entire U.S.-Centric and Dollar-Centric global financial system. Get a strong cup of coffee cause the numbers barrage will glass your eyes over, but the absolute magnitude and uncontrolled growth of the credit/debt numbers is at historic levels. We are headed for a massive repudiation of debt at the private, business, and governmental levels in the U.S. and abroad. There is no other way out of this morass.

III. Both Inflation and Deflation Causing Historic Price INSTABILITY: I am sure you have all heard that markets abhor uncertainty. Well, put consumers, businesses, and governments in that category also. Do I buy today or do I wait for tomorrow? What is the cost if I do one action over the other? Should I sell immediately to convert one asset into another to preserve total wealth? If I have a heavily leveraged asset (shame on you, you haven't been listening!), then how will I service its debt should my net income stream be eroded by inflation in my cost of living or deflation in personal assets? We are headed for price increases greater than 5% in certain segments of our economy (energy, insurance, healthcare, taxes, housing) and for price decreases greater than 5% in the remainder (stocks, bonds, real estate, notes receivable, accounts receivable, The Dollar, income, employment). A virtual squeeze play from both ends of the Joe Sixpack Profit & Loss Statement. Asset devaluations in a declining income environment with a simultaneous and punitive increase in cost of living. Inflation or Deflation ..... what does it matter?!! They both have their deleterious effect on the bottom line or net worth of our subject, US.

IV. Major Bear Markets in Traditional or Non-Tangible Assets: Alan Greenspan and Secretary Snow must have been personally making the trades to keep the stock market afloat this long, but the fix is in. Despite unquestionable efforts to keep confidence bubbling along, the stock market is undeniably rolling over into another sickening death spiral. And the overstretched bull market in bonds has died a not-so-quiet death and the sinking U.S. Dollar makes higher interest rates in the U.S. and abroad, sick economies or not, a forgone conclusion. Realtors are telling me that potential buyers not only have sticker shock, but are trying to time any commitment to a grossly overpriced home to hit a dip in the mortgage rate back-up. Once it is clear to all who know how to read that the economy will not get back off the mat this time cause the punches of excess global capacity, lack of business confidence & investment, and overextended/ leveraged consumerism are just too potent, then the equity market will have forecast the Recession of Spring, 2004 by Christmas, 2003. George W., hate to say it due to the dearth of political alternatives, but you is in for the race of your political life in 2004. Get that campaign money machine cranking to buy those votes!

V. The Trend is Your Friend in Gold, Silver, Palladium, and Platinum: Any way you cut it, the precious metals are in a strong bull market. From April, 2001, gold has advanced from a suppressed $260 per ounce to today's modest $380 per ounce price for a ........... DRUM ROLL PLEASE .......... 46% GAIN. Silver from around $4.50 per ounce to $5.10 for a 13% gain is still beating money markets that may go poof in the night and, silver is just winding up for some real fireworks based on decades of supply deficit and Asian/Middle Eastern accumulation. Palladium in 2003 alone, after an $1,100 peak over two years ago, has moved strongly from $160 per ounce to $210 in the last 5 months for a interim gain of some 31%. Platinum seems to be on steroids with a price movement from $380 in October, 1999 to a demand driven level of $700 per ounce today. Hummm, an 84% gain!!! Mama Mea! Take all of the squiggles in between along with over-analyzing the entrails of the chicken, weigh them with the hard facts of outright price appreciation in a short period of time, and you are faced with the stark reality that: THE PRECIOUS METALS ARE IN A BONAFIDE BULL MARKET! I can't say it any plainer than that.

I will stop at FIVE planets since my astrological knowledge is limited, your have only 5 fingers and toes on your left or right at one time, and I have to go mow the lawn. Whether you like or hate the metals, that don't mean nuthin'. Go where the prices are still relatively cheap, the party has just begun, and the fundamentals and technicals are improving daily. WHERE ELSE CAN YOU GET THIS BANG FOR THE BUCK? WHERE ELSE CAN YOU OBTAIN AN ASSET WHOSE VALUE WHOSE VALUE YOU ARE NOT MISLEAD ABOUT DAILY?

......... then The Sage of Wexford dons his Australian Bush Hat, straps on his non-Chinese made work boots, and heads off to mow the ever greener pasture of his 1/3 acre suburban lot, CONFIDENT HE HAS DONE A GOOD DEED IN TRYING TO STEER THE MASSES IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AWAY FROM THE CLIFFS OF THE FINANCIAL ABYSS ........... AND TOWARD THE MOST PRECIOUS OF METALS.

http://www.goldsilverbullion.com/BullionMarketInsights.htm#Sep27

" Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of international copyright law. "
" http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html "

[Edit]

MineWeb confused by Barrick hedging policy, but Blanchard suit makes sense of it -- gata, 11:29:58 09/27/03 Sat

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

MineWeb's Tim Wood analyzes Barrick Gold's presentation
about its hedging policy at the Denver gold conference and
finds it confusing and questionable. To the contrary, GATA
finds that Barrick's policy makes perfect sense if one
assumes, as the Blanchard vs. Barrick and Morgan Chase
lawsuit charges, that Barrick, with Morgan Chase's backing,
has the financial power to run the gold price both up and
down almost at will.

You can find the MineWeb story under the headline "Barrick
Message on Gold Hedging Remains Very Fluid" at the
MineWeb home page:

http://www.mineweb.com/

Here's the direct link:

http://www.mips1.net/mgdg3.nsf/UNID/TWOD-5RRRFA?OpenDocument

And here's an abbreviated link:

http://ls.shapebyforce.com/sbf/261

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

Thanks gata! -- beesting, 08:43:39 09/27/03 Sat

I was just about to reprint the e-mailed piece on China(with your permission of course)myself. IMHO this is about the BEST news for Gold that I have read in a long, long time.
The Very Best Regards...........beesting.

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 08:18:20 09/27/03 Sat

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

While some Western gold bugs are being shaken out
by the usual desperate central bank and bullion bank
manipulation of the gold futures price on the
commodities exchanges at options expiration time,
China is revving up its gold markets and gold
business in anticipation of gold's return as the
pre-eminent currency and preserver of wealth.

It may seem a little strange that the world should
look to China for its hope of free markets and
personal economic freedom generally, but you can
read all about it below, courtesy of China Daily.

The China Gold Association is quoted as saying
that "the potential for individual investment in
gold as an alternative to currencies to maintain
private wealth is almost unlimited."

That pretty much says it all.

This dispatch includes only the text of the news
story. Some nice photographs are posted with the
story at China Daily's Internet link.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Focus: China's gold rush

China Daily, Hong Kong Edition
September 25, 2003

http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/25/content_267390.htm

Prominent gold experts and officials are urrging the
government to lift the ban on individual trading in the
precious metal as soon as possible, as quoted prices
at the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) continually hit
record highs this month amid a surge in buying
enthusiasm.

The introduction of individual traders, they say, would
kill four birds with one stone, by invigorating flagging
consumption, slashing the foreign trade surplus,
trimming conspicuous foreign exchange reserves, and
easing international pressures on China to appreciate
its currency.

It is "safe and feasible" for China to spend part of its
foreign exchange reserves on gold imports, as well as
place such purchases on the domestic market and
open the market to individual players at the earliest
possible opportunity, said Xi Jianhua, Bank of China's
gold business expert.

About 20 percent of respondents to a recent national
survey said they were willing to spend 10 to 30 percent
of their savings in gold investment, indicating a huge
potential demand for gold.

Outstanding individual bank savings in China hit 10.61
trillion yuan (US$1.28 trillion) at the end of July. After
trying in vain for years to encourage a high growth rate
in private spending, China has had to rely on proactive
fiscal policies, marked by heavy government investment
since the Asian financial crisis in 1997, to maintain fast
gross domestic product growth.

Based on the survey results, Xi estimated that a possible
injection of as much as 300 billion yuan (US$36.15
billion) in private money could flow into the gold market.

The money would create demand for about 3,000 tons of
gold, he said. It would then only be natural for the country
to expand imports as China currently has just 600 tons
of gold reserves at its disposal, far from enough to cope
with the potential gold rush.

In the initial stages, individual investors would create a
market demand for 300 to 500 tons, according to analysts,
and further growth would be gradual.

Spending on such a scale for gold imports would not have
a significant impact on China's foreign exchange reserves,
they said. Even if the anticipated 300 billion yuan worth of
private investment was made right away, the country's
US$356.5 billion worth of foreign exchange reserves at
the end of July could cater for the demand with ease.

Using the reserves to purchase foreign gold would not only
help withdraw billions of yuan now in circulation, but also
boost the overall national import volume, Xi said, and thus
"ease pressures on the appreciation of the yuan."

Xi's suggestions were echoed by Xu Shouxin, vice-director
general of the China Gold Association.

Xu said the association has long proposed promoting
individual ownership of gold, adding that the best way
would be to allow commercial banks to start individual
gold investment services at the earliest possible date.

He also stressed the need to spend part of the country's
foreign exchange reserves on gold imports once the
domestic market is opened to individual investors.

The time is now perfect for the government to make the
move, say analysts, citing potential room for further hikes
in gold prices, both in the domestic and international
markets.

Rising prices

Gold prices in China have risen more than 15 percent
since the Shanghai Gold Exchange started operating last
October, initiating free trade in gold for the first time in the
history of the People's Republic of China. But its members
are limited to 108 institutions, including producers,
processors, and traders of gold and gold products, plus
commercial banks.

The price of Au99.95, the type of gold used in the
manufacturing of ornamental items, which was 83.5
yuan (US$10.10) a gram last October, climbed to a record
high on September 22, closing at 102.21 yuan (US$12.31).
Meanwhile, the price of Au99.99, gold reserved for
investment-oriented speculation, which was 84 yuan
(US$10.16) a gram last October, closed at 102.45 yuan
(US$12.34) on September 22.

Analysts note that trade at the Shanghai Gold Exchange,
dominated by Au99.95 in the beginning, is now marked
by heavy transactions in Au99.99.

Meanwhile, prices of gold jewellery in Shanghai and other
major Chinese cities also increased by 2 to 3 yuan
(24-36 US cents) per gram this month.

Some SGE members have been increasing their stocks in
anticipation of heightened demand once the market is open
to individual investors, said an industry insider who declined
to be identified. "These investors have been very active,
taking every possible chance to buy in."

A gold analyst with the Industrial and Commercial Bank
of China said the domestic gold market is following the
appreciation trend of gold against the US dollar, predicting
that prices will further rise following an influx of new
capital at the Shanghai Gold Exchange.

International gold prices recently hit a six-year high of
US$390 per ounce, exceeding the previous record of
US$388 set in February when the US invasion of Iraq was
imminent. Prices dipped to US$318.75 an ounce on April 7
in anticipation of a quick end to the war but started to
bounce back as it dragged on, and the rising trend has
gained strength since the beginning of this month.

Local analysts say the complicated situation in the Middle
East, the world's oil barrel, and a sluggish international
economy are the two main forces driving the increase in
gold prices.

The slow restoration of peace and order in Iraq, escalating
tensions between Israel and Palestine and the
weaker-than-expected economic recovery in the United
States, Europe, and Japan have blunted consumer
confidence and diverted a large amount of capital into the
gold market, said Li Xisheng, an analyst with Qilu Securities.

Sluggish stock markets worldwide have also driven
investors to the gold trade, Li said.

Xi noted that Japanese investors have been buying in
substantial amounts of gold since the beginning of this
month, while the appreciation of the euro against the US
dollar has produced more opportunities for European
investors in the gold market.

Other analysts even predict that international gold
prices may surpass US$400 an ounce before the end
of the year.

Short supply

As the world's third largest gold consumer and fourth
largest gold producer, China is suffering from a long-term
shortage of gold, said Li Xisheng.

The country's annual consumption is about 200 tons,
while its production equals roughly 180 tons a year.

According to the China Gold Association, national gold
output hit 88.12 tons in the first half of the year, an
annualized increase of 13.21 per cent. The industry created
a profit of 974 million yuan (US$117.35 million), up almost
60 percent from the same period last year due to rising
gold prices and soaring demand.

However, analysts say, it is difficult for China to maintain
major long-term growth in gold production because of
limited natural resources and production capability.

In China, some 800 producers, each equipped to handle
a daily capacity of more than 50 tons of ore, employ a
workforce of 400,000. Their combined annual gold
production capacity is 150 tons.

However, Li said, 80 percent of these producers have a
daily ore processing capacity of less than 200 tons each.

Small-scale production, a lack of the latest technology
and management techniques, and low production efficiency
keep most Chinese gold producers from being competitive
enough, as do high production costs, he said.

Meanwhile, strong growth is expected in domestic gold
demand over the long term, Li said, as individual incomes
continue to increase.

-- First, per capita annual gold consumption in China is
only 0.2 grams, far below that in Western and other Asian
countries. The figure for India is one gram, while the
United Arab Emirates averages the highest at 30 grams.

China is the largest potential jewellery market in the world,
said Chu Xiangyin, an official with the China Council for the
Promotion of International Trade. Consumption of ornamental
objects topped 80 billion yuan (US$9.65 billion) in 2002 and
has been growing by 15 percent annually.

The market value should grow 10 times in 10 years, Chu
said.

China is also on course to become a major manufacturer
of gold jewellery in 2010 as a result of increased private
spending power and lowered import tariffs, said Kang
Xingzhou, vice-chairman of the China Gold Association.

Kang predicted that China's annual gold jewellery sales
volume would reach 189 billion yuan (US$22.78 billion)
by 2010, accounting for more than 10 per cent of the
world's total.

-- Second, the demand for gold for industrial use will
also increase rapidly as China becomes the world's
manufacturing centre.

Currently, 90 percent of the gold consumed in China is
used to make jewellery.

-- Third, the potential for individual investment in gold as
an alternative to currencies to maintain private wealth is
almost unlimited.

Uncertainties about worldwide political stability and
economic growth have strengthened this function of gold,
Li said.

For instance, global investment in gold rose by 8 percent
in the fourth quarter of 2001 following the September 11
terrorist attacks, while growth for the previous three
quarters was only 4 per cent.

Closer to home, gold prices in China surged amid plunging
stock markets during the SARS outbreak earlier this year.

Such uncertainties may also bring about adjustments to
China's foreign exchange reserves.

When China's foreign exchange reserves grow to US$400
billion and the ratio of gold in the reserves is brought to 5
percent, according to Merrill Lynch, a new demand for 122
tons of gold will result. Gold comprised just 2.6 percent
of the US$286 billion worth of reserves at the end of last
year.

For thousands of years, the Chinese have traditionally
saved gold and worn gold ornaments, analysts reason.
If the government does decide to allow individual investors
into the sector, the landscape of the entire gold industry
worldwide could change completely.

China's gold rush

The introduction of individual traders in the gold market will,
according to gold experts and officials:

-- invigorate flagging consumption;
-- slash the foreign trade surplus;
-- trim conspicuous foreign exchange reserves;
-- ease international pressures on China to appreciate its
currency.

As much as 300 billion yuan (US$36.15 billion) in private
money is estimated to flow into the gold market, creating
demand for about 3,000 tons of gold.

A market demand for 300 to 500 tons of gold will be created
by individual traders in the initial stages.

Gold prices in China have risen more than 15 per cent since
the Shanghai Gold Exchange started operating last October.

Prices of gold jewellery in Shanghai and other major Chinese
cities increased by 2 to 3 yuan (24-36 US cents) per gram
this month.

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 08:16:26 09/27/03 Sat

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

MineWeb's Tim Wood has a short commentary tonight on
China's golden ambitions as described in the China
Daily article just dispatched to you. Wood picks up
on what may be the most important point:

"Xi Jianhua, the Bank of China's gold business expert,
is also quoted saying that it would be 'safe and
feasible' for China to swap some foreign exchange
reserves for gold. The country has a little over 600
tonnes of gold in reserve now, and $360 billion in
foreign exchange."

Imagine China's swapping some of its mountain of U.S.
Treasury bonds for real metal....

You can find Wood's commentary here:

http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 08:15:13 09/27/03 Sat

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

John Embry, president of Sprott Asset Management
in Toronto and the one mutual fund manager who
acknowledges central bank intervention against the
gold price, has written an essay titled "15
Fundamental Reasons to Own Gold." You can read it
in the "Founder's Commentary" box at the top left
of the home page at GoldMoney:

http://goldmoney.com

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 08:14:04 09/27/03 Sat

Dear Friend:

Chris Temple of National Investor analyzes gold's abrupt
reversal downward Thursday, quotes GATA Chairman Bill
Murphy's Thursday night commentary at LeMetropoleCafe.com,
acknowledges that central banks may not want gold to rise,
and predicts that the struggle over gold may intensify
from hand-to-hand fight to global thermonuclear war. You
can find Temple's commentary here:

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/temple/temple092603.html

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

@ William White -- Pro, 01:19:04 09/27/03 Sat

Thanks for the information. Tell us more about your new system & the book you are advertising, what markets & contracts etc do you trade, what's your trading experience? TIA.

[Edit]

ATTENTION ALL PROFESSIONAL TRADERS! -- William White, 00:55:14 09/27/03 Sat

HI TO ALL TRADERS!

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Handy and so effective! Amazing results after one week! I advise you
to try it!

Click here to get more info:
http://www.WebTradingSystem.com/qpp.cgi?adminid=2881&id=51751

[Edit]

White House is ambushed by criticism from America's military community -- From The Wilderness, 22:38:10 09/26/03 Fri

George Bush probably owes his presidency to the absentee military voters who nudged his tally in Florida decisively past Al Gore's. But now, with Iraq in chaos and the reasons for going to war there mired in controversy, an increasingly disgruntled military poses perhaps the gravest immediate threat to his political future, just one year before the presidential elections.

From Vietnam veterans to fresh young recruits, from seasoned officers to anxious mothers worried about their sons' safety on the streets of Baghdad and Fallujah, the military community is growing ever more vocal in its opposition to the White House.

"I once believed that I served for a cause: 'To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States'. Now I no longer believe that," Tim Predmore, a member of the 101st Airborne Division serving near Mosul, wrote in a blistering opinion piece this week for his home newspaper, the Peoria Journal Star in Illinois. "I can no longer justify my service for what I believe to be half-truths and bold lies."

The dissenters - many of whom have risked deep disapproval from the military establishment to voice their opinions - have set up websites with names such as Bring Them Home Now. They have cried foul at administration plans to cut veterans' benefits and scale back combat pay for troops still in Iraq. They were furious at President Bush for reacting to military deaths in Iraq with the phrase "bring 'em on". [click the link below for more!]

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/092203_military.html

People in glass houses should not throw stones, forget Israel, Arafat etc, look here at home!

[Edit]

Friendship -- mini, 22:28:21 09/26/03 Fri

A reunion of sorts 2nite w olde friends from +25 yrs. Don't forget to smell the hydrangias...........

Let bygones be GONE!

[Edit]

qwerty, 00:54:21 09/26/03 Fri -- PeterA, 21:04:45 09/26/03 Fri

“the assassination of Rabin in 1995 was really suspicious. it was amazing how the suspect was able to walk through all that security ... even witnesses in the crowd were attentive to what was happening ... all this highly trained security missed this guy”

Yeah, Right! And Bobby was steered to an unplanned exit though the kitchen. So how did Sihran happen to be THERE? Who DID say. "Let’s go out through the kitchen???

[Edit]

Curses...Foiled Again! -- RossL, 19:35:32 09/26/03 Fri

Rocky and Bullwinkle, of course.

[Edit]

charts -- RossL, 18:23:14 09/26/03 Fri

The charts have dried out and are now updated.

[Edit]

P.S.S. -- goldustorm, 15:27:28 09/26/03 Fri

P.S.S. Please read the rules of the forum and wipe your boots before entering, i.e. serious or morbid topics only and no horseplay. Thank you and I look forward to greeting you when your horse arrives.

[Edit]

@volavka, mini, Rex and other web gossip group enthusiasts! -- goldustorm, 15:19:58 09/26/03 Fri

You are cordially invited to the regrand opening festivities at endgame.ca at your convenience. Bring a friend, bring cutting implements if you must but don't wait till the parties over!
P.S. Entertainment will be provided by the expatriated soldiers of the green castle and anyone else who shows up!

[Edit]

Blanchard v Barrick -- auspec, 13:49:34 09/26/03 Fri

From Tlaga @ http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/tlaga092303pv.html

"48. The resulting looting of this nation's gold by exchanging it for Treasury's IOUs, is not any different than looting of the available cash from the Social Security trust fund in exchange for similar IOUs. In both cases, the issuer of the IOUs does not have now, nor will have in the future, any assets other than those taken away from the taxpayers, which means that the owners of the looted assets will be asked in the future to pay for the replacement assets one more time with their new earnings. And Secretary of the Treasury does not even keep a record of Treasury's securities which are sold through the banks and Fed-anointed Primary Dealers."

END of fair use snip

Comment: For the legally inclined amongst us..........this editorial is most interesting. What can one sue the Feds in regards to? Is this suit a ruse?

On another note..........good to see gold taking a little breather here. Watch the snap back rebound from a sturdier base.

[Edit]

auspec @ 09:25:08 09/26/03 Fri -- HBM, 13:02:32 09/26/03 Fri

Yes.

With a note from you:, "Please add this one to the collection." KS has coin in safe place. (smile)

I set the envelope aside with your return address on it for future reference as the revenuers might be looking for you and I would want to accomodate them to my benefit. (guffaw)

Thanks for the coin and the honor.

HBM

[Edit]

HBM -- auspec, 09:25:08 09/26/03 Fri

Did you receive your coin?

[Edit]

Admitted Sharon is not a good guy -- HBM, 09:02:04 09/26/03 Fri

However his being a bad guy does not in any way make the current Mufti of Jerusalem a good guy, comparatively or otherwise. Bad logic all the way around.

HBM

[Edit]

Pilots -- FriscoFred, 08:49:19 09/26/03 Fri

Hail, to the Israeli pilots who refuse to fly assassination missions among the Palestinians.
Seven of them most recently.

Blowing in the wind,
FF

[Edit]

Mini Me -- volavka, 07:22:21 09/26/03 Fri

Da Beef Da Beef. No Bull No Cow, meat prices rock.

Got spanish Goats. 42,000,000 hispanics in U.S.
Got plenty of meat and paid to raise them.

[Edit]

Paradise cove -- volavka, 07:06:46 09/26/03 Fri

Only in Calif. can u buy a 250.000+ trail @ paradise cove.

The mobil home/loan/conseco/ food stamp crowd will cause major default in housing sector/bubble.

Watch Mich report coming out.

[Edit]

A huge Leased metal dump going in on silver today -- Galearis, 06:46:31 09/26/03 Fri

Silver is tanking big time today... down just below support to $5.12...but is showing some sign of recovery. They are doing it with leased metal BIG time today:

http://www.kitco.com/market/lfrate.html

Another make or break day for the cabal. Gold lease rates are doing nothing at all. They are using paper there.

G.

[Edit]

Good Un Beesting! -- auspec, 06:45:30 09/26/03 Fri

..........and I thought it was Dudley DooRight all along. I'll bet the Mossad made Snoopy do it........

[Edit]

Cowboys & Native Americans -- volavka, 06:15:55 09/26/03 Fri

low SHOULD be in for today in dec

[Edit]

Depants -- volavka, 05:14:59 09/26/03 Fri

levis gone.
Jobless in America.

Dollar headed for .72
Gold 650.

[Edit]

"The Third Temple's Holy of Holies: Israel's Nuclear Weapons" -- Ashok, 04:42:22 09/26/03 Fri

Israel has 400 nukes, building naval force
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_9.html

300 Nuclear Warheads (in 2000)
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb2000/isra-f12.shtml

300 Nuclear Warheads in 2000, 400 in 2002, 2003-04?...

[Edit]

@Cor Tauri...re of Eclipses & the "Mahdi" -- OmarD, 03:47:11 09/26/03 Fri

RE: OmarD, eclipse -- Cor Tauri, 14:19:07 09/22/03 Mon - "two eclipse's to occur in upcoming "Ramadan"

Very interesting post. Especially when held up against current "prophecy" theories of other faiths.

Thanks much for the below reference..."Islamic Prophecy" - is something I have only come into contact with "peripherally" while wallowing in the massive ocean of Islamic literature...is not something frequently discussed in the "Sunni" environment I dwell in...but is big topic to Shia's...your post has prompted me to dig much deeper into.

Imaam Mahdi and the Signs that Will Precede Him

http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/mahdi1.htm

The "Mahdi" is out there and is coming...but like all "prophecy" is hard to pin down the "when"...have no idea if this is first incidence of a "dual" eclipse during "Ramadan" or if it has happened before.

Many Shihite thought took Khomani as the "Mahdi" - don't know if he encouraged the idea...but seems there have been a number of past and recent "imposters" - which fits first part of prophecy...

But that #4 ("The Euphrates will Disclose a Mountain of Gold") sure gets the mind "rolling" - could that refer to the "truckloads" that showed up in Iraq???

Any great upheaval in Saudi Arabia may fulfill #3 ("The Battle in Mina") - would be very watchful during this coming Haj month...

Of course...#1 ("General Signs") - a given...

While the Christian based prophecies are not quite as specific...expect many of them may fit many current and potentially current events also...

"Bible Codes" saying same, re: Ironhead...

No matter what...times seem to indicate, getting best "insurance" that "resources" allow (knowledge, pms, retreat, etc) & hunkering down with "good book" of choice (Bible, Quran, Torah...etc..) nearby at all times...one thing we should all keep close in mind...the "End" is always closer then we might know...get/be & stay ready.

OmarD

[Edit]

Time for American's to wake the "^%$#" up also... -- OmarD, 03:01:42 09/26/03 Fri

From: The San Francisco Bay Area Independent Media Center - ISRAEL A DANGER
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1647954.php

ISRAEL A DANGER
by Charley Reese via repost Wednesday September 24, 2003 at 12:39 PM

{Snips}

The problem and danger to the United States is that Israel effectively dictates U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Israel supporters were the architects of the war against Iraq, and if they can, they will get us into wars with Syria and Iran, thus eliminating Israel's enemies. They would like nothing better than for the United States to be at war with the entire Muslim world.

By Charley Reese, Sept. 24, 2003

What country in the Middle East occupies the lands of other people? What country in the Middle East is in violation of more than 60 United Nations resolutions? What country in the Middle East openly practices a policy of assassinating its political opponents? What country in the Middle East routinely violates international law? What country in the Middle East possesses nuclear weapons, refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refuses to allow international inspection of its nuclear facilities?

The answer to all of the above is Israel.

And here's one more question: What country in the world poses the greatest danger to the future of the United States?

Same answer: Israel.

---------------
See rest @http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1647954.php

(For the ardent and unfortunately "brainwashed" pro "Zionists" that are known to frequent this neighborhood, please read take time to read and think about...before responding with usual..."oh, Omar, you are such a "anti-semite," "hater," "bigot,"...etc..")

And yes..."it is Yasser Arafat who is the man of peace, not Ariel Sharon..." as stated "why" in the above...

For a "short review" of the record of one of history's greatest and well-documented "mass-murderers..." take a look at Sharon's handiwork...

Sharon's War Record - http://www.nis.gov.jo/rcja/Special/sharon.html

Ariel Sharon: The War Criminal Takes Over - By Rabbi Michael Lerner, RabbiLerner@tikkun.org Wednesday, February 07, 2001

http://www.nimn.org/jewishper/ml1.html

Ariel Sharon: Profile of an Unrepentant War Criminal by Jeffrey Steinberg

http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/site_packages/2002/sharon/020430sharon_crime_hist.html

(just the first couple of about 62,000+ "hits" on "google search" on "Ariel Sharon War Criminal" - Bush & Co.'s "great friend & ally" in ME)

Ok...my annual anti-Zionist (US govt policy) "rant" off...makes me feel better anyway.

Now back to wistful hopes for peace and happiness for all...

Wa Sallaam,

OmarD

("Dove" .gif provided long ago by NetKing)

[Edit]

Edward Said died -- qwerty, 00:54:21 09/26/03 Fri

===
In 1994, Said demanded that Arafat stand down as Palestinian leader, accusing him of collaborating with Israel against the interests of the Palestinian people.
===

this is what I think about Arafat too

he was placed there to keep the conflict going, just like the upper echelon power structure in Israel

edward said was put on the palestinian manure list

It's always amusing to think about the mass murderer of hundred of thousands of jewish people, Dr. Mengele and how so many major powers collaborated in his escape. He lived out his life in this hemisphere and was never caught ... i imagine the paper clip program re-employed him ... i wonder how many american children disappeared and got experimented on

Without Mossad helping in the effort and cover up, I doubt he could have ever really been successful in hiding out

I suspect a lot of upper echelon people in Israel assisted the Nazi collaborators. For them, the average person in Israel is nothing more than a pawn in a global effort to maintain and enhance control ... just like in the US, the political leadership of Israel and Palestine are betraying their respective constituencies

the assassination of rabin in 1995 was really suspicious. it was amazing how the suspect was able to walk through all that security ... even witnesses in the crowd were attentive to what was happening ... all this highly trained security missed this guy

just like the american people swept the jfk assassination under the rug, the israeli public did the same thing ... i have to assume rabin's people were even involved in the cover up

just like in the US and other countries, the sheep culture predominate in israel ... what if they woke up and realized they were just pawns ... boy, it would be something

[Edit]

Curses...Foiled Again! -- beesting, 21:58:00 09/25/03 Thu

http://sam_sawyer0.tripod.com/peanuts/

Snoopy vs. The Red Baron
The Royal Guardsmen

After the turn of the century In the clear blue skies over Germany Came a roar and a thunder men had never heard
Like the scream and the sound of a big war bird

Up in the sky, a man in a plane Baron von Richthofen was his name Eighty men tried, and eighty men died Now they're buried together on the countryside

Chorus: Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more
The Bloody Red Baron was rollin' out the score
Eighty men died tryin' to end that spree
Of the Bloody Red Baron of Germany

In the nick of time, a hero arose
A funny-looking dog with a big black nose
He flew into the sky to seek revenge
But the Baron shot him down--"Curses, foiled again!"

beesting chorus:
But Snoopy tried again and again and again
He felt it was his calling to gain some fame

He would never gave in to the mighty elite
Even tho he knew they would always cheat

You see all the world knew it was Snoopy's hope
To force down The Red Baron in a trail of smoke

And then Snoopy would fly up high in the sky
Nothing could hold him down no matter what was tried
And The Barons henchmen would begin to cry
Snoopy you dumb dog who taught you to fly
We're going to force you down and you know the reason why

Because you know the truth, it's a Gold conspiracy!!!

Chorus: Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more
The Bloody Red Baron was rollin' out the score
Eighty men died tryin' to end that spree
Of the Bloody Red Baron of Germany

He flew into the sky to seek revenge
But the Baron shot him down--"Curses, foiled again!"
And Again,,,And Again,,,And Again,,And Again,,,And Again!

........beesting.

[Edit]

china daily .... wow -- qwerty, 20:49:28 09/25/03 Thu

http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/25/content_267390.htm

====================

The introduction of individual traders, they say, would kill four birds with one stone, by invigorating flagging consumption, slashing the foreign trade surplus, trimming conspicuous foreign exchange reserves and easing international pressures on China to appreciate its currency.

It is "safe and feasible" for China to spend part of its foreign exchange reserves on gold imports, as well as place such purchases on the domestic market and open the market to individual players at the earliest possible opportunity, said Xi Jianhua, Bank of China's gold business expert.

About 20 per cent of respondents to a recent national survey said they were willing to spend 10 to 30 per cent of their savings in gold investment, indicating a huge potential demand for gold.

=============

from a china daily

i wonder if this is what lassonde was talking about

just 10% would send gold to the moon and then past pluto to alpha centauri

an american survey would probably come out with ... DUH!!! from most respondents in regards to gold

i hope they introduce the "individual trader" soon

just imagine the world mania in gold that would develop

we could sell when gold hit $3250 per ounce and then let the late comers get the last doubling ... we would have to last through the corrections

[Edit]

Interesting action today -- Questioner, 20:09:57 09/25/03 Thu

Wild swings in the gold market. NPG.V looking good.
Will mines hold their share value if hit with large earthquakes? Are royalty companies a better bet than mines with infrastructure? Earth changes coming big time.

[Edit]

homeland patrols -- qwerty, 19:57:42 09/25/03 Thu

====

Homeland Insecurity: Enough is Enough!
By Chris Simcox, Tombstone Tumbleweed

Dear Government, re: President Bush, Vice-President David Cheney, A.G. John Ashcroft, Tom Ridge and all media outlets.

Enough is enough! You lie to citizens of the United States! We demand true homeland security first, before you provide security for citizens of Iraq or any other country!

I just read an article in the Detroit News by George Hunter, Wed., Aug. 27, 2003. U.S. lays off 27 border inspectors in Michigan Homeland Security officials say they lack money to pay them.

Absurd, and unacceptable! This is outrageous and treasonous behavior on the part of all officials listed in the header of this letter.

My name is Chris Simcox, I work with a group of Cochise County, Arizona residents who patrol the border with Mexico; we assist Border Patrol with an out of control invasion of the southern border, a sieve that is the open gate to the United States; a border virtually wide open for the world to violate.

=========

this is proof enough for me that these groups that patrol for illegal aliens are just fronts to help usher in the gestapo

"We demand true homeland security first"

what a statement this is

i never knew we needed "homeland" anything

but maybe his weekly paycheck has something to do with it

[Edit]

@POG, 11:31:00 09/25/03 Thu -- Endgame, 19:14:04 09/25/03 Thu

You, make my day.

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]

amep -- volavka, 17:55:29 09/25/03 Thu

locked and loaded.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/news/articles.asp?guid={624C4FCC-F480-4B26-BBC1-217C8C390B51}&newsid=807317043&orig=charting&time=8&symb=AMEP&sid=1159774&source=htx\http2_mw

[Edit]

Who Said It? -- mini, 16:19:23 09/25/03 Thu

"Curses.......foiled again."

[Edit]

Silvertigo -- FriscoFred, 14:55:39 09/25/03 Thu

..."we probably won't be alive then."

I see the scenario I wrote as a probabilty and not a positive yes or no. So, since I do not have the foreknowledge, I have to go with a probability (even stronger than a possibility.)

At the present time, I consider unpolluted water as the most valuable asset, above pm's which I have also.

Blow wind, blow,
FF

[Edit]

@FriscoFred -- Silvertigo, 13:57:00 09/25/03 Thu

Re: "we probably won't be alive then."
Yes, that's possible and
isn't it easier to just say it will,
or to say it won't?
But you didn't stick your neck out or feign erudition. That would smell so royally.
Me, I'm a recovering committaholic so I bear with me while I dry out.
And skimming(and speed reading) that "Gold Warriors" book at B & N last night kicked me up a step or two on the "eight step program" towards obsession detoxification, apart from the book's political slant.

[Edit]

@Qwerty -- Silvertigo, 13:36:20 09/25/03 Thu

Re: Your last. Excellent.
Well said and just as "ignorance is bliss", vicarious participation in excessive tv or the fawning of the usamold's of the world, is mentally, physically and spiritually debilitating. Proceeding next to social disorders, institutional dysfunction, war, nuclear annihilat.....

[Edit]

volatility -- FriscoFred, 13:10:42 09/25/03 Thu

Value is determined by scarcity of anything. Gold and silver will remain at the stale price range it has been in unless an entity or entities acquire and hold a large portion. We are able to purchase it very easily now. When we have difficulty finding any to buy, then the price will soar. I don't mean by a few dollars. I mean by hundreds of dollars. When the earth has yielded all there is in mining, then the cost will be atronomical. But we probably won't be alive then.

Invest in water.

Watching my windmill,
FF

[Edit]

Kosares -- qwerty, 13:07:48 09/25/03 Thu

===
In the end, we will get a new monetary agreement with the
majesty of Bretton Woods, but it won't come until this
system fails -- utterly and completely. For their own reasons
the players will not let it happen any other way.
===

problem ... reaction ... solution ....

failure will enable the globalist NWO to gain even more control ... global currency ... global central bank on a more official level ... i can see them initially backing it with some gold without gold redemption but just like the dollar, they will whittle even that percentage down very quietly until it is zippo ...

the mindless sheep will go along with it never knowing that their political leaders have conspired to create the failure ... betrayal and treason is what the politicians specialize in ... for the public, ignorance is bliss

i see posts by gold bugs saying it will bring back gold ... they don't understand the way the game is played

[Edit]

What will expire today? -- POG, 11:31:00 09/25/03 Thu

We wish it were Endgame, but looks like the POG.
$400, $450 POG!? . . . Haha, yeah Right. Anybody think the PTB will just walk away from this, think again.

[Edit]

Guyatt & deepblacklies make it to bbc -- number six, 10:48:31 09/25/03 Thu

in most bizzare circumstances...

here

"'Urban myth' exposed by trial

By Chris Summers
BBC News Online

The jury in the fraud trial of Michael Slamaj and Graham Halksworth were unconvinced by a conspiracy theory involving enormous amounts of Chinese gold and American money."
---
fair use mother goose.

[Edit]

The establishment arrives - - - -- journeyman, 09:49:44 09/25/03 Thu

Gold Hits 7-Year High

Washington Post

LONDON (Reuters) - Gold rose to its highest level in more than seven years on Thursday as fund buyers piled into the metal, inspired by a surprise decision from OPEC on Wednesday to cut oil output and a weaker dollar, which raised bullion's safe-haven appeal. Gold Hits 7-Year High, Looks to $400, Reuters, Veronica Brown, Thursday, September 25, 2003; 11:42 AM

Regards,
Journeyman

[Edit]

@Auspec, Endgame -- goldus, 08:58:28 09/25/03 Thu

@Auspec Re: "Show us the gold."
Patience is a virtue. Good things come to those who wait. ;)
@Endgame Re: "But prepare to duck when those millions of ounces come out of the woodwork." Not a problem. I've been keeping such a low profile lately. Got no choice but to rub elbows with the creatures of the field in my quest for the barbarous relic. Besides, certain gurus like gold(and silver). Speaking of barbarism, do you think Auspec will ever tire of his fixation with drills?

[Edit]

Who Will Expire Today? -- auspec, 06:51:37 09/25/03 Thu

Options?

Shorts?

EW gold Bears? {Does a bear continue to crap in the golden woods?}

SHOW US THE GOLD!!!

[Edit]

Asian tiger upside down -- volavka, 06:28:56 09/25/03 Thu

watch this now.

[Edit]

Knock, Knock -- auspec, 06:08:43 09/25/03 Thu

Who's dere?

gold @ the threshhold.

not a joke.

[Edit]

HaHaHaHaHa -- volavka, 05:56:30 09/25/03 Thu

Have a nice day. end of story.

[Edit]

Excerpt from the Seagraves' site www.bowstring.net -- silvertigo, 22:38:06 09/24/03 Wed

Permission to reprint brief excerpts, granted under Fair Use Clause of International Copyright Laws.

Excerpts:
"GOLD WARRIORS
See Author's Note
Readers of Gold Warriors will find exhaustive annotations
at the back of the book. Those wishing additional
documentation, maps, images, and photographs in both
black and white and color, may obtain two compact discs containing more than 900 megabytes of data, by ordering
the CD Roms."

"From the back cover:
BLACK GOLD
In 1945, American Intelligence officers in Manila
discovered that the Japanese had hidden large
quantities of gold bullion and other looted treasure
in the Philippines. President Truman decided to
recover the gold, but to keep its recovery secret.
The treasure -- gold, platinum, barrels of diamonds
and gemstones plundered by Japan from all of East
and Southeast Asia -- would be combined with Nazi
loot recovered in Europe to create a worldwide
American political action fund to fight communism.
This 'Black Gold' gave Washington virtually limitless
unvouchered funds for covert operations. According
to CIA officials, between 1945 and 1947 the gold bullion
was secretly moved to 176 accounts at banks in 42
countries. This provided an asset base to reinforce the
treasuries of America's allies, to bribe political and
military leaders, and to manipulate elections in foreign
countries. Other treasure was recovered inside Japan
during the U.S. Occupation. General MacArthur,
President Truman, John Foster Dulles, and a handful of
others, knew all about the hidden plunder. Every
president since Harry Truman has been involved in
covering up the existence of these secret funds.
Gold Warriors traces more than half a century of secret
collaboration between Washington and Tokyo, between
the CIA and the underworld in Japan and other countries.
The cloak of 'national security' created a situation ripe for
abuse and corruption. The authors reveal how former CIA
and Pentagon officials, and rogue entrepreneurs, use
these secret funds to set up private intelligence and
security operations to meddle in American foreign policy --
without Congressional oversight, or the knowledge of the
American people. Drawing on thousands of pages of
original documents and thousands of hours of interviews,
the Seagraves expose one of the great state secrets of the
20thCentury."
My comments: See preceeding post by "Goldus". Thank you.

[Edit]

@Endgame -- Goldus, 21:35:12 09/24/03 Wed

Thank you for the reply. I'm looking forward to your site and saw your msg. tonight at the Other place. I am not in the greatest mood right now but I do think your stated intention to bring light to a "conspiracy" soon may help me here:
I was at Barnes and Noble bookstore tonight and what caught my eye on the latest releases shelf but a single copy of the hardcover by Seagrave and his wife(forget the first names but I'm going to go to the swebsite www.bowstring.net tonight as it was mentioned in the book) called Gold Warriors. Published in England, the book concurs with the work found at www.deepblacklies.co.uk, by David Guyatt in many, many ways. It is very absorbing, shocking and disheartening but the publisher is a division of New Left Publishing I believe as stated in the first pages. I skimmed the entire book and can tell you that silver dumping is not appearing as likely right now, unless you can explain(you probably already did months ago) how gold, described to exist in multiples of known(32,000 tons) reserves, cannot soon be used in a sting like we agreed could or would happen to silver(I don't want to take ANY such risk). Yes, the book details with hundreds of references and many left out due to space limitations, how the Japanese plundered gold from many, many Asian nations(virtually all of them) beginning in the late 1800's and distributed it. Also how the Nazis and CIA, US military, Arab shieks, wealthy world elites and others assisted Japanese war criminals and continue to this day, while many are still in power or high corporate positions. How they each acquired stockpiles.
How Bush Jr. sent in to the Phillipines in March 2001 2 naval ships full of Navy Seal Commandoes and recovered and transferred more of the treasure known to exist from 2 of the 175 sites in Phillipines.(They said it was to be for "building the U.S. gold reserves".)
How Japan successfully transferred much gold to her mainland throughout the war years, that exists today, that never made it to the Phillipines, and which her Central Bank may have but little due to corruption, organized crime, U.S. assistance in opposing Communists and more.
How derivatives of gold were used to suppress the POG, as GATA mentioned in The Economist two years ago, and how black gold is "allocated".
How the largest banks such as Citibank, Chase, and HSBC have also acquired stockpiles, among the largest in the world. This book describes how anyone can order a CD set with documentation, pics, audio and perhaps video.

But the authors state that "the purpose of the book is not to prove how much gold was taken, who has it, where it went, or how much gold exists in the world today."[paraphrased]
While the book hits the "right wing" throughout, only occasionally indicting Democrats(Carter, Clinton, others), the main premise of the book is to detail the history of Yashimoto's gold and other injustices and to expose the lack of reparations for victims who were systematically massacred, looted, raped, burned, tortured, enslaved, prostituted, etc and to assist in ongoing and occasionally successful legal actions.
I remain deeply disturbed and plan to pursue the site I noted and others mentioned in the book. Regards

[Edit]

@auspec -- Endgame, 20:52:12 09/24/03 Wed

Glad to see that you are alive and still kicking. Talk about miracles. I would have thought that by now that the amalgams or the colloidal silver would have done you in.

Moving mountains and parting seas are easy compared to trying to make 5 US centavos buy a half decent cigar. Never again in this lifetime.

Lurch does miss you so. Must be a genetic bond.

Regards,
Endgame

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]

Endgame -- auspec, 20:23:48 09/24/03 Wed

"I guess that it is time to resurrect Endgame."

While you're performing miracles, how about a few 5c cigars..............Nicaraguan preferrably.

Speaking of cadavers.......'Lo to Lurch from me!.

[Edit]

GATA re Buttox Gold -- gata, 20:17:19 09/24/03 Wed

[GATA] Barrick hopes to buy back its hedges on dips as gold price rises
Date: 9/24/2003 9:05:47 PM Central Standard Time
From: GATAComm@aol.com
To: gata@yahoogroups.com

VANCOUVER (Dow Jones) -- Barrick Gold Corp. prefers to
take advantage of volatility in the gold price to reduce the
size of its hedgebook, rather than use capital to buy its way
out of hedge contracts, president and chief executive Greg
Wilkins said Wednesday.

At the Denver Gold Forum, Wilkins reiterated that the
company's forward selling program, which seeks to protect
revenues from a falling gold price, has worked "extremely well"
-- and still does in a rising gold-price environment.

His presentation was broadcast over the Internet.

Wilkins repeated Barrick's stance that it won't abandon
hedging, but said the company doesn't want "too much"
production pre-sold. It seeks to reduce its hedgebook to
no more than two years' worth of gold production or 20%
of reserves.

At the end of June, the hedgebook stood at 16.1 million
ounces, or about three years of expected future production.

Barrick estimates its output this year will be between 5.4
million and 5.5 million ounces, and the company expects
a decline in 2004 production as it mines material with lower
gold grades.

The gold price will likely trend higher for fundamental
reasons, but the climb will be volatile, not a straight line,
enabling the company to use dips and spikes in the gold
price to improve the average selling price of its hedged
gold, Wilkins noted.

It therefore isn't a good use of shareholders money to buy
back hedge contracts to slim down the hedgebook, he said.
"Over the next 10 years, I'm sure the market is going to give
us the opportunity to take some of those ounces off the
book and make it smaller and more manageable," Wilkins
said.

If gold weakened over 10 years, "that hedgebook might very
well go to zero," he added.

The hedging program allows Barrick to sell gold at the higher
of spot or contract prices, depending on market conditions,
Wilkins said. Late in the second quarter and into the third
quarter, the company has delivered gold into the spot market,
Wilkins said.

He acknowledged that the company has to reconcile spot
market sales with its hedge contracts at some stage, but
noted that the the defined life of the contracts are 10 years
to 15 years, roughly matching the timeframe it takes to
produce gold from deposits.

Wilkins also said Barrick has bought back 8.8 million
shares at last count, under a one-year repurchase program
announced in May.

The company can buy back up to 35 million shares, but is
limited to buying no more than 2% of shares outstanding per
month.

END

Comment: Hedging works "well" in a rising gold environment? OK, if U say so.......

[Edit]

@Silvertigo, 21:17:36 09/23/03 Tue -- Endgame, 19:48:33 09/24/03 Wed

I guess that it is time to resurrect Endgame. Not that much has been missed in the meantime. Just like Pierre T. said “the universe is manifesting exactly as planned” (that’s a literal translation from the French version). Anyway, things seem to be on plan. I see no disturbance in the Force.

I will try to get the web site up for this weekend. Have to think about something to turn into a conspiracy theory. Lots of material around. I have not done this for a while so I will probably be a bit rusty (….. but not that Rusty).

I see that you are still favoring the silver side of your schizophrenic personality. That is probably OK for now but get ready to duck when those billions of silver ounces come out of the woodwork. I am becoming more and more convinced that that fantasy will become manifest.

Regards,
Endgame

[Edit]

"incestuous"? -- Skookum_Jim, 19:11:47 09/24/03 Wed

Any thoughts of why this ad is being banned?

Is it a "love scene" or mean something else all together?

Spoon'in along,

Skookum_Jim

[Edit]

Anyone Up for a Hike..........?? -- auspec, 16:34:18 09/24/03 Wed

From GE via fair use copyright:

"The truth is, the days of unanimous anti-gold policies of the world's central banks are over. The fact alone that there is indeed a broad consensus to continue the Washington Accord is proof enough that the world's attitude toward gold has changed, and changed for good. This Accord was not just a one-shot deal. It was an announcement, from the highest levels of international finance, that the world's central banks will no longer support the US' blatant anti-gold bias - just in order to support the dollar reserve system." END

{Sir?} Alex Wallenwein

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/wallenwein092403pv.html

Comments: Trail Guide Wannabe or Be? An unmistakable message within this essay.

By the way........I believe he's nailed it pretty good here. If this is what has actually come out of the IMF meetings............be ready for a gold party.

Slow and steady is best........

[Edit]

POG -- Netking, 16:20:08 09/24/03 Wed

Don't expect any POG miracles in Sydney.

[Edit]

Gold -- volavka, 15:40:32 09/24/03 Wed

heading for 425.

amep followers:
shares being pulled from mkt.

exclusive rights now in texas.

This may catch gold.

[Edit]

POG $389.00 @ this hour,,,,,and rising faassst! -- beesting, 14:11:40 09/24/03 Wed

@HBM,Flinter,J-Man,Ironhead,and anyone else interested in DGCs(Digital Gold Currency).

Goldmoney has up-dated their FAQ page.

The way I understand it they have done away with the "Cambio" system and are exchanging currencies for Gold(GGs) and Gold(GGs) for currencies directly with account holders.

Click Here To Read How The Goldmoney System Now Works

In 2 years my (GG)Gold holdings have appreciated at about 15% per annum by my calculations.

Compare this to the Bank Of England which sold about 200 tonnes(?) over a 2 year period.
200 tonnes equals about 6,230,000 ounces of Gold, times $275 per ounce(their average selling price[?])equals $1,713,250,000.00 by my figures.
6,230,000 ounces of Gold times todays $385.00 POG per ounce equals $2,398,550,000.00 by my figures.
The Bank of England has so far taken a "LOSS" of $685,300,000.00 by selling their Gold holdings AT THE WRONG TIME!!!!!

Possibly enough money to feed everyone in England for the next 5 years?????? And these guys get PAID for managing money??????Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...The laughing stock of the entire Gold watching world!!!

Bottom Line: Physical Gold is now appreciating at a MUCH better "Rate Of Return" than most paper investments,,,,,And IMHO is much safer.
...........beesting.

[Edit]

option expirations -- qwerty, 09:55:22 09/24/03 Wed

there seems to be a lot of gold call options in the money

probably a battle to take them out of the money before expiration so gold being held down

anybody concur

[Edit]

sullair -- volavka, 06:36:43 09/24/03 Wed

back in the 70s' this stock went from .08 to over 8.00 basis down hole steam induction.

[Edit]

amep -- volavka, 06:31:39 09/24/03 Wed

first run price obj.
2.00

[Edit]

PM's aide ordered dossier change to boost war case, admits spy chief -- Netking, 02:53:32 09/24/03 Wed

Still not convinced?

"Intelligence that undermined the case for war against Saddam Hussein was dropped from the Iraq dossier at the last minute after the intervention of Tony Blair's chief of staff. John Scarlett, chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, admitted yesterday that he had made the crucial change on the "prompting" of Jonathan Powell, the Prime Minister's most senior aide..."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=446425

[Edit]

volavka re magr, amep -- number six, 01:39:07 09/24/03 Wed

THose amep oil-additive results were very impressive. Price ought to move, but prices rarely do what they ought to. I get such a dodgy-penny vibe off their website and from the concept, but, well, I'm in and I'm up, and to quote Alice Cooper, that's just enough for me-ee.

As for Magr, i thought their website was suprisingly honest - The frontpage shows a picture of some dirt and a lot of blue sky. But they are in Mongolia, which counts for a lot these days. I do much prefer Entree gold if you're feeling mongoloid - they own (60%?) ALL of the land surrounding friedland/Ivanhoe's super copper/gold discovery, and it looks a very good bet that the sweetest bit of ivanhoe extends over onto Entree's land for a few k's. A much pricier speculation than Magr, but at least I could make an argument for it if forced to.

[Edit]

quote of the day - no comment required I would think -- number six, 01:25:42 09/24/03 Wed

"What we need [in Iraq] is for the U.N. to nominally supervise the security situation and NATO to be used as an instrument.
This will enable us to spread both the responsibility and the risks and make it look less like an occupation."

Former Pres. Bill Clinton,
American University of Dubai - 21 Sept 2003

[Edit]

auspec -- number six, 01:10:09 09/24/03 Wed

auspec, you're right to focus on old gold fields as the place to find new gold fields. Although I never knew that applied to GG. For as long as I've been a gold nut GG has just been the shining high-grade beacon on the hill; I didn't know they were an old revamped operation.

I'm really more familiar with Australian outfits that fit that model - there's BDG Bendigo Mines, which has Harmony as a major shareholder and has a solid future. THen there's Charters Towers Gold CTO, which is a cheaper version of the same story but not so far advanced. (Not so-oo cheap now, bastard's nearly tripled lately, and they haven't proved anything up yet.)

Then there's my favourite of these, being Centamin CNT (what man can resist that ticker symbol?)who have outstanding prospects in Egypt. NOw I'm a little leary of them because of Egyptian beaurocratic craziness, and because of their warlike north-easterly neighbours,- (TPTBZ,) - but they have a lot of cheap gold per $mktcap today, and I really think it'll be shooting fish in a barrel for the next 5 million oz. THis isn't just a mine from the '50's which now got the modern geo-exploration treatment, this is a mine from a coupla 1000 years bc!! The previous owners wore a big gold mask and a funny tube sticking out of his chin, and was a big fan of cats! THe current owner/ceo saw pictures of these hills while on holidays there in a souveneir shop, and asked them where this place was... went and had a look and knew exactly what he was looking at! It's a very romantic story told much better elsewhere.

[Edit]

Silver - Butler -- Netking, 00:59:07 09/24/03 Wed

Larry/Rusty/Rhody etc...here 'tis:

The Beat Goes On By Theodore Butler

http://www.investmentrarities.com/09-22-03.html

[Edit]

@Endgame, All -- Silvertigo, 21:17:36 09/23/03 Tue

@ Endgame! It was good to see your post over at the Other place a few days ago.(For the newbies, his handle is Mr. Bill) Is your site back up yet? It just tickles me to see you post off your site, and I miss your analysis at Endgame.ca.
@All- I have an itching to trade for a little silver. But just with play money(gold). I'll bet Endgame's still holding Au.
R. Powell, who used to post here, posted again today that he disagrees with Ted Butler's Comex silver views, but holds Ag for other reasons. But that may not matter as I'm thinking maybe TSHTF soon with all that's coming down and the weird, almost calm atmosphere everywhere. Maybe Sherman Skolnick's got something or somebody "fingered" lately for an October Surprise? I've been lax, not reading him lately, but I can't always agree with him. Regards!

[Edit]

amep -- volavka, 18:39:11 09/23/03 Tue

well:

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/news/articles.asp?guid={8336EAE5-77C6-4B53-BF99-91EE1E58BAB2}&newsid=807267426&orig=charting&time=8&symb=AMEP&sid=1159774&source=htx\http2_mw

[Edit]

Heads up -- Silvertigo, 17:10:40 09/23/03 Tue

I just tried the first two links I gave on my last post: bombsinsidewtc.dk and unmask.dk and the library screen here came up saying: This page cannot be displayed.

[Edit]

From "Dove Report" LOL! -- Silvertigo, 17:03:12 09/23/03 Tue

www.bombsinsidewtc.dk and www.unmask.dk WTC take down disputed. (From www.nesara.us and the "Dove of Oneness" or "Dove of O" daily report.) This isn't the funny part.
They're pro metal-backed bucks, small government, and even justice for the Bush clan. But they really lay it on thick, you'll see, when it comes to the "Masters", St. Germain, global credit card and debt forgiveness, "White Knights". How do they take themselves seriously? ROFL Rivals or outdoes Rense's UFO fixation IMO. (www.rense.com- nice occasional artwork and plenty of great stories and links except for the fringe elements and I'm not talking metals, but maybe Halloween)

[Edit]

Cor Tauri - OmarD Temporarily Incognito -- IronHead, 13:47:35 09/23/03 Tue

Hi Cor Tauri - if I might interject twix you and the illustrious Om.

Om is now taking a much deserved sabatical, for some many days, and is in the Shangrila of our remote inner sanctum, sans communicative devices of a technological nature.

I'll be traversing the nearby pass of serendipity, (about 3 miles as the crow meanders) to rendevous with him tonight for evening vittels, pontification, and general {g}astronomical observations, i.e., good food and star gazing.

Myself, having strong inclinations towards the lunar cycles, (literally) and some degree of fascination with such, will bring up your comments pertaining to the possible Islamic inferences . He, being of masterful exploratory skills and imaginative powers akin to Gunga Din, will most asuredly get back with you regarding this interesting supposition , upon re-entering the known world.

If he does not respond by next week.....we'll send out the dogs.

Gaze'n along,
I-Head

[Edit]

could be -- volavka, 06:41:09 09/23/03 Tue

best junior for 2004-06 magr.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/news/articles.asp?guid={B5DF41C8-4560-4051-BA50-F1FFC9E77CC1}&newsid=807258162&orig=charting&time=8&symb=MAGR&sid=1296049&source=htx\http2_mw&source=htx\http2_mw

[Edit]

Silver Stocks -- Comparative Valuations -- GoldIsMoney, 04:25:44 09/23/03 Tue

http://www.goldseek.com/news/GoldIsMoney/1064240475.php

[Edit]

GATA -- gata, 03:38:00 09/23/03 Tue

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

GATA Chairman Bill Murphy's "Midas" commentary for
Friday, September 19, at LeMetropoleCafe.com has
been posted in the clear at Kitco and GoldSeek:

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Murphy/sep222003.html

http://www.goldseek.com/news/LemetropoleCafe/1064241017.php

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

[Edit]

number six re GG -- auspec, 18:20:18 09/22/03 Mon

Link found at Kitco.........thanx

[Edit]

number six!! -- auspec, 17:26:45 09/22/03 Mon

Thanks for the GG info........do you have a link? Not too shabby for the old Red Lake mine to have a complete about face via GG vision. We will see this many times over, imho, with similar stories of old mine exploration.

It will be interesting to see if Wolfden responds to this drill result as they are in the vicinity seeking similar results. Applying new exploration technology & conceptual models to old underexplored mining projects is bearing fruit. The Ken Snyder Midas Mine in Nevada looked much deeper than previously and found their bonanza. Bralorn {BPN} is systematically exploring an old gold camp {huge one}. Same with Kirkland Lake......working on an area that has produced 22 M oz over the years yet remains underexplored. Same w X-Cal in Nev w their Sleeper District...........historic mine but underexplored and totally mismanaged.

Yep, we all expected good success from GG drills, but this is phenomenal..........especially if it represents a new area of exploration. This type of result can REALLY kick start an exploration market. An area play should soon follow. This entire concept of modern thorough drilling on old and often tired projects should have good legs.

GG has totally underperformed the likes of Newmont this last year or so.........a little catching up should be forthcoming.

Thanks for the tip off.

[Edit]

good God! -- number six, 15:44:47 09/22/03 Mon

GG Goldcorp hit a 10 metre intersection of 40 oz/ton gold. Outrageous!!! (Although their mkt cap has already assumed plenty of exploration success, this is still an amazing intersection.) 10 metres of .4 oz/ton would be a highlight of many drilling campaigns.

[Edit]

OmarD, eclipse -- Cor Tauri, 14:19:07 09/22/03 Mon

I found DustFall, thank you for the site. Frequently I encounter a person who I think might find some value in your collection of Thoughts.

re: the upcoming double eclipse: I myself find nothing significant in a double eclipse, other than the excitement of showing my sons something extrodinary in the sky. However I don't think these upcoming events will be visible in my area. There is however another culture that may assign significant meaning to this double eclipse. Rightly or wrongly, I suspect it will be understood to herald a messiah or prophet or something or someone. It is not important if I believe this, what is important is if several hundred million armed Muslim men believe this.

Please retell any references to the double eclipse you might find in Arab news.

It may interest you to do a google search of the terms: ramadan double eclipse mahdi

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=ramadan+double+eclipse+mahdi

Best Regards

[Edit]

Yen & aussie $ -- jomama, 14:06:30 09/22/03 Mon

Was waiting for the yen to bust down thru 116/US$.
(Look at the BIG head and shoulders on the chart.
It did so with a vengeance. Thar she blows!
As I expected, the news was full of..."The yen rose today
on news of .

Road muffins. It was just "TIME". Anyone who looks at
charts every day knows this.

Aussie $ took a similar jump up against the US$. Very
unusual for the AUD since it's so slow and steady, but right in line with the trend.

Lots of power in both these moves.

Lots.

[Edit]

@ Murray -- Galearis, 12:05:05 09/22/03 Mon

Rhetorical comments 101 backatcha, Murray: Yup, its the very opposite of today's situation on the chart - only much worse.

and no, not for years,

and that means the present day acquiring phase, still ongoing according to the depressed spot price, should be conducted hand over fist as long as the rogues keep this puppy penned. Fair market value ten years ago should have been $15. We have to reach this just to catch up to the damage of previous manipulation. So THAT POS could well be the platform that we should be looking at for the bull to really fly. I would imagine that that should come still relatively slowly and then Silver will go nuclear.

How long? Well, that's the silver dollar question! This delivery month, or the next, or next year.

What they did today to POS they did with paper. Lease rates have not jumped. If you go back to Friday's attack you can see the affect of the physical dumps on the tick chart of RossL's web site. They were selling the physical at what looks like $5.12. It was gobbled, spot ticked down for a second, and then the paper price went right back up.

They really stuck their necks out today. You could tell they had to do something drastic with those rapid and plentiful nine and ten cent oscillations indicating that something had to give or move out of the way. Let's see if someone is holding an ax.....

Best regards,

G.
[Edit]

[Edit]

Larry -- Murray, 11:14:39 09/22/03 Mon

Rhetorical silver 101 thoughts: Do you notice something of fundamental difference between "Hunts" silver move in 1980 to $52.25/Oz . . .and where we are today with the young bull market. Secondly, do you expect the blue line to cross the red anytime soon, why? That being the case, what does that mean, and for how long.

Conclusion: The back of the book says we win, the middle of the book says...buy all the silver you can get, now!

[Edit]

@ auspec re lease rates and related matters -- Galearis, 08:03:36 09/22/03 Mon

Hello auspec,

I was feeling cranky on Saturday and it came out in that post I made. Behind the feelings was the concept that forums are a little communistic in nature in that information - and often in our area of interest it is honest and non-promotional in nature - is also free and donated. Hence something for nothing. Hence forums are socialistic communities, in that information is freely given and unearned by the reader. Free is definitely not a reflection of worth. As you well know the "Up=ticks" (smile) of the world have the gall to charge for their disinformation. So the free-enterprise world is fraught with these little ironies and inconsistencies that in the free melt of the cultural matrix works sometimes as well as a deregulated electrical generating system. (BIG grin) Truth is flexible and seldom sets one free. (REALLY big grin) And reality is somewhere in the middle of all of it.

That probably doesn't answer your question very well, but the best things in life, or in forums, have to be worked at a little. Sometimes they are also ignored....and should be.
(smile)
It was an interesting commentary you make on lease rates. Rhody keeps sending me his thoughts on the same and he is more capable these early mornings to use his calculators (organic and machine) than am I. He is, however, reluctant to post on forums. Perhaps he is shy now of them....But I thought you might enjoy his insights on what is now occuring in the silver market and how leased metal is being used therein....:
*****snip****

Lease rates for gold are still producing forward rates that are positive numbers. This means in a
nominal sense, and assuming the price of gold is NOT rising, it still makes financial sense to lease
gold. I can only assume that it is official gold that is keeping liquidity this high, and lease rates this
low in gold. But look at silver! If near term silver lease rates rise a mere .20% more, then
the forward rates in silver will be negative across the board. They are already negative in
the one year (and longer) terms by -.65%. Remember this interest is a metal interest and
if silver spot is in an uptrend, this whole leasing business cannot be economical. Since
leasing continues, the motive cannot be economic, but financial: attempting to control
losses. If we assume Ted Butler is correct, and there is a one billion ounce lease overhang,
then at a mean 6 month lease rate, and assuming it is rolled, this generates a 15 Moz annual
lease interest. That is, if the silver deficit is 60 Moz as stated, there is an invisible 15 Moz
of additional deficit in the lease interest at these rates. Even at 1% nominal rates, we are
talking 10 Moz per year in metal interest. Think about that for a bit. If silver lease rates
rise to the level of platinum's, the financial sector borrowers will owe over 100 Moz in
metal interest per year. These guys do not control silver ounces in the ground. This is
panic time. This is totally impossible. This amount of lease metal interest would, if added
to the present deficit in silver production, totally consume the world's stockpiles of silver in
just one year. BOOM.

Regards, Rhody

http://www.kitco.com/market/lfrate.html
***unsnip*****

Lest we become too excited by the apparent health of the POS, we should remind ourselves that silver should be well over $6 per ounce to match the gains of POG these days. And if one bought metal last Christmas when silver was well under $4, we are just NOW barely in the black on the investment.

But we WILL win in the end.

Best regards,

G.

P.S. I am MUCH less cranky today because yesterday someone sold me at a yard sale over twenty ounces of sterling items for $3CAD (Cheshire cat grin). Within two years this sort of thing will only be a fond memory, never to repeat. Nice to see there is SOME dishoarding going on.....

[Edit]

"Cosmic Events..." -- OmarD, 06:17:22 09/22/03 Mon

@Cor Tauri

re: "...is it significant that there will be two total eclipses this year between Oct 26 and Nov 24..."

While, sorry to say, I have little knowledge or insight in such matters, I do, however, know that such grand cosmic events are very significant to many others on this planet...

My own, "tea leaf predictions"/"prognostications"/"insights" are generated (not from watching the "stars") but from diligently (almost "religiously") reading sources like Eagle Ranch (paying close attention to what many of the fine posters here are saying) --- in addition, I do not let a morning go by without at least browsing, "The Daily Reckoning", Puplava's pages, Gold Eagle and sometimes a little "Drudge" & "Rense" to "spice things up" ---

Then to really make sure my morning "dose" is not totally "warped" (or more likely, to insure that it is...), I top it off with a quick gander thru the headlines of the BBC, Arabic News, & Jerusalem Post. ---gives me an idea of what all the significant "madmen" of the world are up to for the day.

These are places where I find my "significant" "cosmic events" - but to each his "own".

PS...usually even the most casual perusal of the above usually sends me scurrying for my "Quran" and "Mundy" to get my resulting "fight or flight" "adrenalin rush" down...

Want to know what my "gut" is telling me now?--- I, even right now, have the strongest urge to go out to the garage and just like the many satiric cartoons of old used to often reflect...make a large front and back body sign that says..."REPENT...THE END IS NEAR" --- or maybe something along lines of "BUY GOLD...THE DOLLAR IS DEAD"....and wear it everywhere I go today...and every day hereafter...ummm, where can one get a "soapbox" these days?

Warmest Regards,

OmarD

PSS: "Dustfall" is out there ...had a "service provider change" some time ago and took a while to get "DNS/WINS" tables populated correctly to reflect "old" urls...but all seems to back in order now.

PSSS: @Ironhead...Am heading "East" for "wilderness" & "technology isolation" fix this afternoon...See ya.

[Edit]

"Dawning of new era in global currency markets" - AFR -- Netking, 01:52:26 09/22/03 Mon

Alarm bells should be sounding to the gold bears, unless they're stiff that is.

New era dawning in forex - Australian Financial Review

"The Australian dollar soared to above US68¢ and gold challenged seven-year highs on Monday as a new era dawned in global currency markets.

The Japanese yen also jumped to three-year highs against the US dollar after a momentous declaration from G7 finance ministers at the weekend signalled that Washington's "strong dollar" policy is finally dead and buried.

"More flexibility in exchange rates is desirable ... to promote smooth and widespread adjustments in the international financial system," the G7 said, in a clear rebuke of Asian nations for stopping their currencies from appreciating.

Currency traders were jumpy on Monday for fear that the Bank of Japan would step into the market to restrain the yen, but where there was no sign of intervention, everyone jumped on the bandwagon to sell greenbacks...."
" Reprinted under the Fair Use doctrine of international copyright law. "
" http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html "

[Edit]

America puts Iraq up for sale -- Netking, 01:39:38 09/22/03 Mon

"Iraq was in effect put up for sale yesterday when the American-appointed administration announced that industry, health services and water are to be auctioned off to foreign investors.

America puts Iraq up for sale - Independent

...Five months after the overthrow of Saddam, there are no visible signs of reconstruction. Clean water and electricity are still not available to most people and entire neighbourhoods are still without phone lines.
Washington is desperately seeking help with footing the $100bn bill it estimates rebuilding Iraq will cost..."
[Copied snips herewith per "fair use" from full linked article from Independent.co.uk]

[Edit]

USD/EUR -- Netking, 23:23:11 09/21/03 Sun

EUR at 1.1451 best day [so far] since 07/29/03 . . . 1.1549 to be taken out as next target [reached on 07/25/03]. . . then 1.1933 reached in May . . . "hold on" ahead friends, fasten safety harness . . .

[Edit]

auspec -- qwerty, 23:17:00 09/21/03 Sun

good points in your post

when i hear prechter, weiss or anyone calling for 200 dollar gold, i have to doubt their sincerity

unless they have been living in a cave for the last years, they should be aware that there is a currency crisis

this is not to say that one can't find something useful in what they say but one has to assume their motives for such a call has some agenda attached

last i heard, he said that if gold holds above 395, he will change his tune

gold at 387 ... kinda weak given the dollars steep fall but gold normally dips during asian / australian time ... the opening of london / comex should be interesting

[Edit]

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU -- $hifty, 22:29:58 09/21/03 Sun

Ponzi Chart

Periodic Ponzi Update PPU

Nasdaq 1,905.7 + 9,644.82 = 11,550.52 divide by 2 = 5,775.26 Ponzi

up 111.97 from last week.

Thanks for the link RossL!

Hope you get everything dried out and back up and running soon!

Go GATA !

Go GOLD !

Go Golden Comets!

$hifty

[Edit]

Descent to the third world as the sixth world approaches? -- Questioner, 19:59:12 09/21/03 Sun

@all Many thanks to all the great posts on this board. They are greatly appreciated.

Here is my two cents worth: Get as self reliant as possible. Nature is going to make the concept of insurance obsolete. Tough times approaching; which will test us to our limits, be prepared for any and all events. Rely on yourself and those closest to you.
Extreme winter approaching from heat to cold.

[Edit]

Gold to soar this week -- TraderJames, 19:55:56 09/21/03 Sun

Due to current Dubai meeting and confirmation of dollars need to drop against all currencies, look for 390 gold before this week is out. 400 gold is most likely before next week ends. Anyone not on board at this time is going to be left behind with no way to get back in. Tommorrows opening is going to spike up, along with the stocks. They will not look back. Recommend all who are not fully loaded for bear or those with dry powder buy at the open. Buying the open is not normally good trading but trading is now over. This train is leaving for good and will not look back. For those already fully involved, best to you. Your time is at hand and fortunes will be made soon.

[Edit]

Newmont strike & power decision -- Questioner, 19:43:32 09/21/03 Sun

@auspec- Thanks for the silver coin!

@all

Newmont will rise in the tide of this news. The bull trend is intact. http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2003/09/20/news/local/news2.txt

"The strike began at 6 p.m. Friday and continues until Wednesday morning."

"Newmont miners to picket in Denver

By ADELLA HARDING, Free Press Staff Writer

ELKO - Union miners working for Newmont Mining Corp. are on strike, and they are planning to be in Denver Sunday and Monday to picket in front of the Westin Tabor Center Hotel, where the Denver Gold Forum will be held.

Operating Engineers Union Local Union No. 3 hopes to catch the attention of mining executives and Newmont shareholders in Denver to let them know Newmont miners have worked a year without a labor contract."

Also Newmont not taking care of their energy or power needs but who really is in this day and age:
http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2003/09/20/news/local/news3.txt
"Newmont pulls out of pipeline project

By ADELLA HARDING, Free Press Staff Writer

ELKO - Newmont Mining Corp. is dropping out of a proposed natural gas pipeline project due to new developments, but the company isn't giving up its pursuit of new power and gas supplies.

"We're terminating our participation" in the Colorado Interstate Gas project to bring natural gas from Wyoming to Boulder Valley, where a new power plant would be built, Mary Korpi of Newmont said Friday.

The pullout follows decisions by two large, potential customers against commitments to using the natural gas. CIG and Newmont needed their commitments to risk the money for project development.

"Two major end users announced they're not going to sign off," Korpi said."

[Edit]

Galearis and Harv -- auspec, 18:56:16 09/21/03 Sun

Thanks for your insightful ideas Gents!

Disinformation? Yep, it certainly abounds, but not from the inner conscious of the "wabbit", say it ain't so, Jose.

Let me just say this about that {smile}.........Any gold or silver "guru" that pulls the plug on these markets at critical points deserves to be put under a MICROSCOPE!! Why do I say this.....? I sincerely believe that those experts and newsletter writers or whatever that have significant enough following to actually impact these markets {as both Guano and Weiss have demonstrated}.......better be squeaky clean. Nothing wrong with a heartfelt conviction, nothing wrong with cautions aimed at paying and loyal subscribers or followers. On the other hand......if you have patently obvious ties to the elitist manipulators........you better be prepared to do a lil splainin. These guys deserve to go the way of the big time gold hedgers.

Come crunch time the disinformation guys will clearly expose themselves. Gold threatening $390 or whatever it was early 2003...........gotta hit it at the margin. CRIMEX rules changes with a little bat Guarino thrown in and .......VOILA!! $320 here we come. Even a picture of Nick the _ick doesn't pass the smell test from this focal length. No apologies........the guy's a scam artist.

Weiss has currently earned himself a little slide time under the scope. Maybe he's clean, but his newsletter has long called for sub $200 POG and trashed silver as being more than abundant. Can he withstand the scanning electron microscope? What are his ties? What are Larry Edelson's ties?

Speaking of Scotia Mocatta...........ever buy any coin from Centennial Precious Metals.........?? That was HIS source for the metal I used to buy from them. So what? Maybe nothing, maybe the source of their silver disinformation agenda. When Sir Douglas hikes ER we'll then know for sure................
Sheesh...........ya know even Salem did away w some true witches. McCarthy found some Commies. Bet we can find a few rats, no?

Lease rates? I'll have to take a back seat to Rhody, but will make a short comment. The lease rates are intended, at all times, to obtain an objective. In an ordinary market that objective would be to maximize profits. In gold and silver it could be said they maximize fiat profits by squandering the precious metals themselves. Setting rates not according to market fundamentals but as an enticement to basically get something for nothing. The ultimate socialist elitist goal. Capital at such ridiculously priced levels that it's hard to pass up. These CB's aren't being fooled........they know exactly what they are doing. Squander the small amount of tangible goods to prop up the much larger degree of financial goods. The metals belong to the people and don't serve elitist purposes of manifold multiplied leverage just sitting there glistening. Real low lease rates may not and likely do not mean there is plenty of commodity available. They will set the rates at whatever level is required to entice counter parties to participate. A higher lease rate very likely means counter parties are hesitant, but of course, could also mean we're getting near the silver "wall". How does Rhody see this?

We enter a very interesting time these next couple of weeks post the Int'l MF'ers Dubai Conference. Maybe they'll pull a real surprise and get the Germans to spout off about selling off reserves for the 16th time {this yr}. Whatever the ploy...........they better deoderize it real good, cuz it'll likely need it. I'm gonna wear nose clips 24/7 for a while.

As far as the following quote:

"Well, that's what Rhody thinks about all this. What I am increasingly thinking is that sometimes sharing is way too socialistic for topical forums in this area of interest."

Can you explain this in further detail..........not sure I comprehend.

Desperation.................sweet aroma

Guano.......................nope, not in this Cavern

Weiss & his precious metal henchmen......U make the call

Does this make sense to ALL that those who participate in the gold or silver suppression schemes WILL identify themselves at the most critical times? Rally quashing? Let's watch together..........under high magnification.

A little rhetoric included above? Yep, what else would you expect? Now, go do the right thang.........

[Edit]

Tempus -- Fugit, 18:40:52 09/21/03 Sun

Being there early/being there late . . . a day in politics is a long time . . . but in trading, it's even longer.

[Edit]

I Think You're Right Volavka! -- beesting, 18:38:12 09/21/03 Sun

$387.50 POG was already breached in London.
Check out this chart:
Click Here For London Chart

Look for $417.50 POG last seen March 1996 to be taken out today Sept.22,2003.
Reasons:
Recent failure at summit meeting in Cancun Mexico and failure at Dubai to reach monetary agreement[s].......Rumer is the un-developed countries have had enough of the IMF/World Banks/U.S. dollar cartel,and are joining together saying,"We Ain't Gonna Take No More".....Of Your Fiscal Policies....
.......beesting

[Edit]

50.00 + -- volavka, 18:09:53 09/21/03 Sun

Better early than late, Always ahead of father time.

[Edit]

OmarD re: Lunar Eclipse Nov9 Solar Eclipse Nov23 -- Cor Tauri, 08:36:56 09/21/03 Sun

Hello,
I havn't seen you posting for a while. I was unable to get to dustfall recently. Has it moved?
I wonder if you can tell me if you think it is significant that there will be two total eclipses this year between Oct 26 and Nov 24.
Best Regards

[Edit]

@auspec on (gold) and silver from rhody -- Galearis, 07:00:13 09/21/03 Sun

Don't ask why rhody doesn't post this himself, or even wondered about any following lack of discussion over previous post, but here is some additional commentary. FWIW to this forum:
********
I guess I can put in my two cents here as well. Add to the list of chronic bears, one Leonard
Kaplan, aka "uptick" on Kitco Forum. This guy may actually believe paper bullion is the
same as real metal. He thinks lower lease rates are a sign of diminished industrial consumption. (This might work for silver, but how do you explain the present surge in gold
prices and demand with lease rates as low as .07%!) Ag lease rates were as low as .02% three
weeks ago, and now the cheapest is about .50%. Do the math! Has industrial consumption
of silver risen 2500% in three weeks!!!!!!? Auspec is correct. The volume of disinformational
bullshit has risen to a roar of late, and I interpret this as bullish. The shorts are hurting.
The question is can the bs turn off the bulls. It has worked in the past. The G7 Dubai
conference is this weekend. Want to bet we have a very gold unfriendly announcement on
Monday! With gold now above $380, "They" will be getting desperate.

Regards, Rhody

P.S. With regards to my friend who bought the 100 ozer. This guy is a retired teacher-librarian. While we were colleagues, he had zero interest in pms. Then we had a retirement get together, and I joined a few dots for him concerning the gimpy financial system, the rigging of (all) commodity markets, and the Iraq War. (He couldn't understand
why the Brits were involved) I told him the Brits may own a controlling interest in the
Federal Reserve Bank and hence had a vested interest in supporting the USD and suppressing
gold and silver. As you know, Iraq dumped the USD as the oil settlement currency, and I
think this was the real cause of British involvement. Here we have (again) hundreds of
thousands of people fighting for banksters and thousands dying on behalf of the almighty
dollar. The penny dropped for this guy. I spent two months forwarding links and pm
articles to this guy as a kind of crash course on precious metals. I was a little disappointed
that he bought only 100 ozs. I buy that much each year at yard sales. Never the less, it
was a (small) first step and they are always the biggest when taken down a new trail. (snicker)
To put this in perspective, there is a growing interest out there in pms, and it is because
the little guy is beginning to notice the inconsistencies in the mainstream press. After
buying the silver he wrote to me saying that he had a comfortable and secure feeling when
he handled the bar. I didn't have the heart to tell him that if the wheels came off the
financial system, and his pension inflated away to buy nothing, that 100 oz of silver would
support him for about four months. I operate on the premise that the financial system may
collapse and that one will need one ounce of silver per day to hedge that eventuality.
If I live another 30 years I will need 11000 oz of silver to live in the manner we presently enjoy.
If the financial system does not collapse, then silver becomes the world's best commodity
speculation, bought at 5000 year lows in prices, at a time when the world has virtually depleted all surface stockpiles. The manipulation of silver goes on, but my position has
still yielded better than a bank deposit, and I know the silver sure isn't shrinking. One final
thing. If Scotia Mocotta's buy back spread is 11%, I told him never to take it back to these
pirates. I told him to sell it to a coin dealer. They work on a 3 to 8% spread. Mind you,
the $130 spread won't appear that bad if silver goes to $50 per ounce. That's a fair bet as
$50 CAD per ounce is just slightly above equilibrium value, and his bar will be worth $C5000
at that level. The problem is it is difficult to predict what $C5000 will buy and if he goes to
SM, the government will say you owe them $1500 of it, even though all of it may be inflation.
Oh what a murky world is the world of fiat!

rhody
*******

Well, that's what rhody thinks about all this. What I am increasingly thinking is that sometimes sharing is way too socialistic for topical forums in this area of interest.

G.

[Edit]

ATTENTION ALL PROFESSIONAL TRADERS! -- William White, 01:12:10 09/21/03 Sun

The most modern system of trading actions on Forex! Very simple,
effective and absolutely reliable! This system is really worth trying!

Use this link to know more:
http://www.WebTradingSystem.com/qpp.cgi?adminid=2881&id=51751

[Edit]

Iraqgate -- Netking, 12:30:01 09/20/03 Sat

Americans draw a veil of secrecy as casualties grow
No comment from the authorities while more and more US servicemen and their families are demanding answers from George Bush.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=445131

ANOTHER day in the bloody death of Iraq
At least 10,000 Iraqi civilians have been gunned down since the end of the war. Robert Fisk in Baghdad visits a mortuary where many of these unreported victims are taken

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=445397

[Edit]

Money, money, money...deficit, deficit, deficit. -- Netking, 07:49:19 09/20/03 Sat

Two stories warn of impending financial crisis generated by U.S. government spending and trade imbalances...

The federal government's budget is in far worse shape than most Americans realize, and the fiscal hole is deepening, the head of Congress' nonpartisan watchdog agency said Wednesday...

The International Monetary Fund yesterday warned that the colossal United States trade deficit was a noose around the neck of the economy, emphasising that the once mighty dollar could collapse at any moment...

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/091903_gap.html

[Edit]

To one who "knows..." -- OmarD, 06:17:52 09/20/03 Sat

@Harvey,

your wise words send me running deep into my source's looking for a pertinent response...

Of course "TM" (Talbot Mundy) - provides a solid anchor...and a possible "explanation" for the mass
tragedy we see unfolding around us.

Snip From:

Blackmail

By Talbot Mundy

June 1924

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7656/mundy_essay5.html

"HE who knows, is unafraid and is therefore too wise to threaten; because a threat is an admission that the cause he has at heart is unjust. He who knows not, threatens; and accordingly the knowing are forewarned. Justice has a sharp sword, and its sheath is Silence."

-- From the Book of the Sayings of Tsiang Samdup

"...The difference is this: that while we hunt through the pages of history for light on human nature we can easily discern the processes of blackmail striving to throttle honesty and all the grandeur of the higher nature; but the moment we turn to latter-day conditions those same processes, that blinded our 'medieval' ancestors, making victims of them, blind and victimize ourselves. We can laugh at or pity those who trembled when a bishop threatened them with hell unless they paid outrageously unrighteous tithes; but we permit our children to act like libertines, lest they accuse us of old-fogeyism or disturb our lethargy with irritating clamor -- we submit to extortion in a thousand ways, from fear of slander and inconvenience -- we condone (with our votes or our silence) the crimes of the ambitious men who intrigue in behalf of war, lest we be accused of lack of 'patriotism' -- we sometimes refrain from doing what is right, lest the advocates of what is wrong should hold us up to obloquy or ridicule; -- and we fail to see that we are in no way better or more wise than were the pitiable victims of blackmail of whom we read with such unjustified sensations of superiority in the pages of comparatively ancient history. Morally, and in the main, we are a spineless generation. It will do us no harm if we
recognize the fact instead of further poisoning ourselves with flattery.

We can never learn to guard ourselves against the unsuspected blackmailer, whose subtlety escapes detection in our present state of self-approving ignorance, until we first accustom ourselves to dealing bravely and in protest and at once with those immoral methods of oppression and suppression that a moment's thought makes obvious. Nor can we ever cease to be the unconscious agents of oppression and suppression until we first refuse, in hourly intercourse with others, to impose our will on them by means of threats in any form whatever..."

------------

Words as valid today as when Mundy published them...and, as usual, you serve as a towering example of one who both "understands" and actively stands up to the "powers" of ignorance and (and "suppression") both here at ER and in day to day living.

Thanks from me (and from those many that do not "know")...

Rgds,

Om

"All of the government's monetary, economic and political power, as well as its extensive propaganda machinery, will be enlisted in a constant battle to drive down the price of gold - but in the absence of any fundamental change in the nation's monetary, fiscal, and economic direction, simply regard any major retreat in the price of gold as an unexpected buying opportunity."

Irwin A. Schiff

[Edit]

OmarD - "Lappers and Lickers" revisited -- Harvey, 00:15:34 09/20/03 Sat

Yesterday, in response to AuWags post regarding the touts of financial fraud, I almost put in an addendum to Harvey's post - that it was "NOT" necessarily about precious metals, paper mavens or imaginary financial gains; but bespoke more to the core values that an individual holds within his or her deepest understanding of that which transpires around them.

What we are led to believe, from all facets of mind control mediums, can be put to a litmus test, that exists within most compassionate thinking people, ne?

Somewhere, recently, I read a neat little parable: {paraphrased}
"Opinion yields confusion.....facts and data yield conclusion."

How one's opinion is molded, along with the facts and data we receive, is the great conundrum, as to what enters the cortex of understanding as 'good' or 'bad' information.

Reading betwix the lines is not an easy task - particularly for those lappers and lickers, whom take the road easily traveled with pablum aplenty for their nourishment.

Me thinks there will be an ultimate alignment, which goes beyond any conventional realizations....something bigger than all the spoon fed daipar rash that is foisted upon u.s., in hopes of keeping our faith in THEIR system of alignment.

Where one's faith is laid to rest, might be the ultimate decision each INDIVUAL will ever make.

Those "strong hands" that were alluded to getting sum of, were not the hands of conventional bootlick'n wisdom.... What I was inferring one should put one's faith in, is within oneself, and WHAT-IS.

Good to hear you singing again!....Was fearful, you had been assimilated and were at the bowl, lapping up the pablum...Hau!

Sing'n along II,
Harvey

[Edit]

frcd -- hAug, 19:37:30 09/19/03 Fri

volavka, FRCD is one that I noted ... didn't push it but I am in it. My favorite among that group remains HEC. Had a limit order on IVAN go unfilled right before it shot up. Been in and out of MSEV. Looking for an important inflection in AMEP in the Nov 14-25 window ... if it's a low as I expect I'll probably jump in.

hAug

[Edit]

"lapping & licking..." - Viet Nam II & UN votes... -- OmarD, 19:12:25 09/19/03 Fri

For a reveling "outside" look at the state of affairs in Baghdad, see below...

The general attitude towards the US in Iraq, is reflected throughout the rest of the Arab world, and I might add, the rest of non-US dominated nations.

Asia Times: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EI19Ak02.html

THE ROVING EYE
(Just) alive and kicking in Baghdad
By Pepe Escobar

Asia Times: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EI19Ak02.html

(snips)

"What kind of liberation is this?"

"...Saddam is in Baghdad." "Elvis" has not left the building, and in each passing day the distress of the unemployed, the doomed and the damned grows, and for many of them it's much worse than under Saddam..."

"...As much as the occupiers remain in their Baghdad bunkers, impervious to the ghastly real life around them and with no idea whatsoever as to how they are perceived by average Iraqis, the irreversible US failure still has to be fully understood by the West..."

--------------

Viet Nam II? -- worse, and with much worse ultimate results. National moral "bankruptcy" along with total, national financial "bankruptcy" - is going to provide a worldwide "bill" impossible for us or our children to pay.

@Harvey...ALL of THEM, "are" full of crappola! --- & not only "soothsayings" are being "lapped and licked..."

Wa Salaam,

OmarD

PS...any wonder where our "friends" are...???

"...The United Nations General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly to tell Israel to drop a threat to harm or deport Yasir Arafat.

The 191-nation assembly, where Washington has no veto, voted 133-4 to adopt a resolution demanding the Jewish state not carry out a policy to "remove" the Palestinian president.

The United States and Israel voted "No", joined by the Marshall Islands and Micronesia..." (note: that is some mighty "high-powered" support - Om)

Note: US's 26th "veto" of ME resolution in the UN...

Words like, "lapping & licking..." plus many others come to mind. Total immorality, injustice and criminal "pandering" among the least offensive I can think of...no difference then our forefathers turning "blind" eye to the early depradations of the Nazi...(and Turks against Armenians, etc. etc...) --- yep...Omar is "singing same old song..."

[Edit]

Who pushed frcd -- volavka, 18:11:20 09/19/03 Fri

help me out here, who pushed frcd on eagle ranch?

[Edit]

Recognition or Comment? -- Peggy, 16:17:07 09/19/03 Fri

1 2 - 0 9 - 2 0 1

(Twelve - oh nine - two oh one) ????

[Edit]

run up into the close -- volavka, 10:24:58 09/19/03 Fri

more shorts will cover before g-7

[Edit]

@ auspec on (gold) and silver -- Galearis, 09:35:27 09/19/03 Fri

Hello auspec,

Your words spurred some musings on my part today. I have always wondered whether Andy Smith was a major short in the gold market, and you can, regarding silver, add one or more entities over there at USAGOLD to the list including the $.50 silver man himself, Sir Douglas; I am magnificently with you in this.

Your mention of HSBC and other b.bs included in the COMEX community caused me to think about a conversation I had with my brother this morning. A friend recently went down to Scotia Mocatta in Toronto (Ontario that is) to buy his first 100 ounce bar of silver. Big move for this fellow to do something (for him) so bizarre. However, there was a change in his treatment there from the recollections shared by both my brother and myself. The teller handling the transaction proceeded to explain to him that his bar would, should he decide to resell it to Scotia Mocatta, be worth $130CAD LESS than the $800CAD plus that he was paying at the moment. Not only did this indicate the thievery level profit spread (about 11 %) that the bank operated on, it indicated a policy shift in its OTC customer treatment. The management is apparently now going to these lengths to dissuade a customer from buying the physical over a certificate.

My brother and I came to the conclusion that Scotia Mocatta is running low on metal stock to back their paper IOUs out there (certificates). I can well remember the hostility from these people when my brother and I took delivery on a contract there – and the hard feelings and eventual cancelling of our account with OUR broker over it. One may EVEN speculate that as a bullion bank they have been active in leasing metal. Could this also be the case for HSBC bank. Note that both these banks are part of the COMEX depository networks. SO, given that these bullion banks may be actual shorts due to metal loans, how much credence should we give the eligible and registered figures posted on their web site each day.

Is it possible that COMEX is in the same position as many central banks with gold?

Is that why we smell defaults in the air?

The sweet smell of desperation, indeed!

Yup!

Best regards,

G.

[Edit]

Buck um, bring um on. -- volavka, 05:48:48 09/19/03 Fri

http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=3235

[Edit]

I'll take 50.00 -- volavka, 05:38:56 09/19/03 Fri

fiat move for the gold

[Edit]

"Deck of Hillary" -- It happens, 05:18:30 09/19/03 Fri

Our very own "most wanted"

[Edit]

volavka -- qwerty, 01:44:59 09/19/03 Fri

>In the corrupt United Slaves of America with no job growth the only way you're going to jump start this zombie is scrap the Stupid Federal and State and local income tax.

the most invisible tax and most legal theft is imposed by the federal reserve

the federal reserve needs to be scrapped also

[Edit]

Cheney's old firm's $3bn Iraq bonanza -- Netking, 00:59:44 09/19/03 Fri

The value of contracts awarded to Halliburton - formerly run by US Vice-President Dick Cheney - in Iraq has skyrocketed to $US2 billion....

Halliburton began work in Iraq with a $US37.5 million no-bid contract in February to put out oil fires. That deal, expanded to include pumping oil, is now worth about $US948 million, according to Halliburton figures provided to the New York Daily News.

But the oil contract alone, awarded by the Army Corps of Engineers to Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root, is potentially worth up to $US7 billion, the military said.

"It stinks - that the (oil) contracting was done behind closed doors that circumvents traditional bidding procedures just stinks to high heaven," said Representative Steve Israel, a member of the US House (of Representatives) Armed Services Committee...." [Snips copied under 'fair use']

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/19/1063625189001.html

[Edit]

AuWag - Bullships -- Harvey, 00:20:10 09/19/03 Fri

Salutations, to our mecurial abstaining filler, of the precious mind fantastic.

Perhaps I'm the "webbot" you pondered recently....then again, perhaps only the thimple "wabbit" of mystical consciousness?

Your adept comments pertaining to the pimps, trols, harletons, and self serving b/s artists (apology to real working pimps, trols, and harletons), aka financial advisors and newsletter writers; hit the core of what is driving a nail into the financial well being of the average western wag seeking fortune and freedom, absent anything of productive value, in return for the time spent stroking their respective pulp fiction guides to wealth and happiness.

The core belief of watered down brains; is layering imaginary worth and wealth into some illusionary asset, which hopefully, some other mark will believe, is going to be perceived as greater in value, at some future time.....after it has been unloaded to the buyer of least understanding. A lesser down principal; the core of which, is seemingly tantamount to most EVERYONE'S belief system nowadays.

Who gets to hold the crappola, for the time period deemed most profitable?
Who gets stuck holding the crappola when everything is hit'n the outhouse floor?
Easy answers sought by most - found in nearest rag, proffered by above mentioned {pseudo} pimps and trols. [Also, generously offered by the tarts on the t.v. rags.]

To believe in THEIR system, is to read THEIR propoganda, crave THEIR wisdom, lap and lick THEIR soothsayings as if puppy's milk from a bowl, and to have abstained from merely looking into the glass of one's own core beliefs, regarding what is real, vs. what is imaginary.

One day, perhaps, just possibly, it might come down to simply looking in one's own hand, and REALizing......ALL of THEM, were full of crappola!

To paraphrase another wag, from the past - Strong hands, get you sum.

Webbot'n along,
Harvey

[Edit]

beesting -- Frisco Fred, 20:46:44 09/18/03 Thu

Mr. beesting,
Great story/example. A worldwide gold or silver standard seems to me to be the only way that the world economy can survive.

Heard/saw on CNBC that Sweden declined to go on the Euro. Do you know how they use or react to the $US? Also learned that Eastman Chem cutting jobs (no number given) and SunMicrosystems laying off over a thousand. If I remember correctly, at Christmas for the past few years was a chosen time for job layoffs.

Do you ever get the feeling that "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" is being enacted in D.C.?
FF

[Edit]

Silver.............Boatloads or Bullships? -- auspec, 19:09:26 09/18/03 Thu

Out of tonight's MIDAS of which I have permission to use snippets sparingly:

"Something very odd is going on in the silver market. If you check yesterday’s MIDAS, you will note that SEP silver closed 4.7 cents over spot. At this stage of the delivery period and with the silver market in a slight backwardization, they should have been the same price. The Bullion Desk spot price matched Kitco, or was even a bit lower. I tried to make sense of it yesterday, but couldn’t, so I said nothing. Then, this morning from Mitsui:"

""Good Morning. "Silver is being squeezed". Why aren't lease rates exorbitantly high? And why can you sell December futures 6 cents higher than spot but sell OTC forward to December at a discount? It appears there is a speculative long position on COMEX who is taking physical delivery of September contracts. Hence, there is a flow of metal from London to New York vaults. Reasons why London OTC forwards won't tighten significantly: Position limits on COMEX, poor industrial demand, restriction of certain funds on taking physical positions and abundance of silver in London. Spot silver might target 5.40 amid the current uncertainty.""

"A highly regarded bullion dealer responded as silver was breaking late morning:"

""I was just speaking to the transport people and they confirm the market is awash with silver. The game is, you take the silver off Comex receipt and see if you can squeeze the market. The trader who is trying to squeeze the market tried to get out today and the market would not let him."

""I do not see a physical shortage. All the gold producers are lurking around the market trying to sell silver. All the new mines projects have a large silver component.""

Is the silver market as tight as the futures market suggests? Could it be squeezed? Or, is the market awash with silver and it is going to collapse?

"Yesterday, the SEP silver open interest ROSE to 1093, up another 305 contracts. The total open interest gained another 1740 contracts to 117, 250. It would appear someone IS going after silver, or wants it to appear that way. We shall see. The floor is bearish, looking for silver to retreat to the $5/ $5.08 area."

"What I do know for a fact is the biggest commodity moves of all come with the trade, or commercials, BEARISH, saying there is plenty of supply around. I have been on the right side of that action over the past 25 years in copper, soybeans, cattle, pork bellies, hogs, and silver. The trade will be the last to know if a serious material change has occurred in the supply/demand balance, even if it’s of a short-term nature. This is what produces a Commercial Signal Failure."

"Gold is my game these days, but I am doing what I can to stay on the silver case. Will keep my eyes and ears open."

END
*******************************

Comments:

KEY WORDS..........Connections, London, Mitsui, Andy Smith, HSBC, Victor Flores, Martin Weiss, Silver

Is silver being squeezed or is it in "abundance"? Folks, I'm just a plodder who wonders about all these CONNECTIONS that keep coming up. These are not likely simple coincidences. I will explain how all of the above named entities and folks relate to each other.

Let's start w Victor Flores.........He used to and possible still does write the gold and silver portions of Martin Weiss' newsletter. I long since gave up my subscription. He's the one who claimed, a couple years back, that there were "boatloads" of silver in places such as Dubai, just waiting to come to market. He also was a MAJOR gold bear when gold was in the mid $200's, projecting gold to go UNDER $200. He's also the man who practices NOT returning e-mails from sincere precious metals investors. Flores was scheduled to speak at the London Gold Conference a little over two years ago and pulled a no show..........allowing a lackey to fill in in his stead. I intended to spend a little time talking w VF, but was sorely disappointed. If I'm not mistaken.....Flores was supposed to represent HSBC at this conference.

If I have learned anything along this long and winding trail {w no guide lately.......smile} it is that honest and sincere people almost always respond to ligitimate questions. Maybe Flores is an exception to this rule, but I doubt it.

HSBC......... All one needs to do w this group is think "shady" banking. Most anywhere one looks in the parallel world of finance and banking one will continually turn up HSBC.

Andy Smith..........Mitsui connections and HSBC if I'm not totally lost @ sea. The perenneal gold bear, the wise guy Harpo Marx look alike. The man who MANY wonder exactly what he KNOWS as it relates to the gold and silver markets. Big time connected. This is a man who follows the various internet discussions as they relate to silver and gold. How do I know? During the London Gold Conference he flashed a slide on the screen that contained about 15 or more various internet links that referred to precious metals. One of them was my old essay about "When Silver Hits the Wall". Maybe that's simply serendipity, but maybe not. He knows these issues inside and out, imho.

Martin Weiss........Obviously closely associated w V. Flores as the appear in the same newsletter. Just happens to be the "guru" that pulled the plug on gold in this last week, inciting his readers/followers to bail out and quash a budding gold threat. See James Sinclair's site for verification of this happening. I don't trust ANYONE who has anything to do with HSBC or Victor Flores. I have long believed that various "gurus" with widespread market followings have insider connections. Weiss. Wall Street Underground, etc.

London......That's where the LBMA trades, no? Have stated in the past that all roads lead to London, no? look into "Black Gold" issues to any degree and you'll find London everywhere you look. Same w the various atheistic elitist global collectivists groups. LONDON!! Look deep. London Gold Pool. British Gold auctions. Etcetera. Buffet buying silver and moving it to London. Silver flowing from London to CRIMEX. Hello!

So, are those who claim silver flows in abundance perps or knowledgeable insiders? Frankly, they could be either one. In the long run they're toast or English muffins or whatever. If there actually is abundant silver they will have to expend it in fairly short order. It may be abundant but it's not unlimited. Ha. If they really had so much of it that they could quash a market for YEARS they wouldn't need to threaten to do the same. If they're close to the silver "wall" they would broadcast numerous messages just like the one included in tonight's MIDAS in order to bluff the markets. Frankly, my dear, I no longer give a damn.........either way they'll be a Christmas goose in the next couple years.

How about this recent Weiss call on gold, throwing a wrench into a budding and threatening market? Nick Guarino of Wall Street Underground did EXACTLY the same thing within the last year, when gold was in the high $300's and threatening to soar. Not one of us, myself included, came up with this type of ploy when trying to decipher what options were likely coming via gold "charade" issues, i.e., how do they put out the current fire? OF COURSE, have a connected "guru" pull the plug at the very worst {best} time for gold/silver. Look who shows up.........???
I have heard Martin Weiss rant and rave at a Gold Conference and receive standing ovations for speaking up for the little guy, David, against the Establishment, Goliath. It is impressive. One must, however, decide if he is a pawn, for whatever reason, for the gold and silver collectivists {smile}. I have made up my mind. Too many connections or coincidences for my comfort.

Do I trust Smith, Flores, Weiss or Guarino? What do U think?

Ah, the sweet aroma of desperation..........nothing quite like it!

mini

[Edit]

You want growth punk -- volavka, 17:24:14 09/18/03 Thu

In the corrupt United Slaves of America with no job growth the only way you're going to jump start this zombie is scrap the Stupid Federal and State and local income tax.

Only way out.
Shift change @ the car wash, lawyers/accountants/tax clowns/auditors/ ya da ya da ya da all out.

[Edit]

Witch way -- volavka, 15:57:48 09/18/03 Thu

triple witch now called a quad, for options/futures/futures on options/single stock futures.

As they unwind worthless as usual you'll see the run "has begun" for gold, sit tight.

[Edit]

GATA -- auspec, 15:50:14 09/18/03 Thu

[GATA] Barrick asks court to reconsider gold trial ruling
Date: 9/18/2003 1:10:28 PM Central Standard Time
From: GATAComm@aol.com
To: gata@yahoogroups.com

http://www2.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/newsArticles.asp?guid=%
7BA0C4E73B%2D100C%2D4519%2DB39F%2D4B148AD8985E%
7D&doctype=2005&siteid=mktw&selCount=50&value=gold&property=word&

VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Sept. 18 (Reuters) -- Barrick
Gold Corp. has asked a U.S. court to reconsider its ruling to
allow a case accusing it of manipulating the gold price to go
to trial and instead to dismiss the action.

In documents obtained on Thursday, Toronto-based Barrick
asked a Louisiana district court judge to rethink her ruling
on Sept. 3 giving the go-ahead to an antitrust case against
the world's No. 3 gold producer.

At the time of her ruling, Judge Helen Berrigan of the
Eastern District Court of Louisiana gave Barrick 10 days to
appeal her decision. Barrick's "motion for reconsideration"
will be heard on Oct. 15.

The case brought by New Orleans-based coin and bullion
dealer Blanchard & Co. against Barrick and U.S. financial
services giant J.P. Morgan Chase & Co Inc. accuses them
of suppressing the gold price at the expense of investors.

Blanchard alleged in a lawsuit filed last year that Barrick,
through its extensive gold hedging program, was able to
manipulate the gold price and, with the help of J.P. Morgan
Chase, was privy to "extraordinary" favorable terms on
gold sale contracts, which both then profited from.

Barrick has called the civil action "utterly ridiculous."

Blanchard is backed in its suit by the Gold Anti-Trust
Action Committee, a Delaware-incorporated group set
up in 1999 to advocate and undertake litigation against
what it calls "illegal collusion to control the price and
supply of certain financial securities."

Committee chairman Bill Murphy earlier this year
predicted a gold price of $500 an ounce by year end.
Bullion was last bid at $376 an ounce.

END

Comment...........This Lady better have nothing in her closet BUT clothes.

[Edit]

little guys/gals -- volavka, 15:35:57 09/18/03 Thu

another set to run:
apll

[Edit]

Some More Opinion[s] On Wealth. -- beesting, 14:43:29 09/18/03 Thu

Hi Frisco Fred and a warm welcome if this is your first time posting here.

Your post brought to mind a trade-barter-deal that I got myself into, that made me realize just how "Out Of Whack" our paper money system really is.

I recently traded some home grown-home split-fire wood for some [labor] services a repairman had done for me.
The repairman charged $45.00 per hour to replace some hydraulic seals in my heavy duty log splitter. The final bill from him was $431.00 @ 8 hours of labor plus parts.

I gave him $100.00 cash $50.00 worth of honey(2 gallons @ $25.00 per gallon) and promised 2 chords of split,dry hard-wood fire-wood, once the log splitter was operational[value of firewood $150 per chord]........

Once I started to cut the mostly dead standing trees I realized what a foolish trade I had done.
I first had to cut the trees into firewood size rounds, haul them out of the woods in the 4 wheel drive pick-up, and then unload the rounds and split them, with the help of the now fixed log splitter, and then reload the pick-up this time with the split firewood and then un-load again and re-stack it close to a loading area with firm ground even in wet weather,[ and to measure by stacking the full chords 4'X 4'X 8']. It took me well over 40 hours and a considerable amount of gasoline, to accomplish this.

Sooooo, if I figure just my 40 hours of time worked by dividing 40 into $300.00 I worked for about $7.50 per hour,,,,which doesn't include gas & wear and tear on chainsaws,log-splitters, & the pick-up truck.....

I felt the repairman [a family friend] had gotten by far the best of the deal since I had to spend 40 hours to produce the approximate same amount of paper dollars($300.00) as he had claimed in 8 hours of work......and I had a finished product to show for my work, the firewood.(He never offered to re-fix the log splitter at his expense, if it broke down again)

This real life experience has made me compare the old honest Gold money system of the 1800's to today........The current paper money systems around the world have "DISTORTED" wages and products to the point where NOONE has the capacity anymore to figure the TRUE and REAL VALUE of anything.

When the world was on a Gold/Silver monetary system prices and wages were measured by the amount of Gold needed[grams,ounces,grains] in the exchanges of goods & services.....Which was a true barter system where real goods were traded for real things......GOLD/SILVER!!!......and in my opinion kept all transactions more honest.[An hour for an hour]

Can't find the reference right now but I recently read where prices and wages actually went down for over 100 years right here in the USA.......compare that to the prices of the last 50 years.

Thanks For Reading.........beesting.

[Edit]

Wealth -- Frisco Fred, 12:10:42 09/18/03 Thu

I was reading an article last night about wealth. It proposed the idea that only those who had wealth would survive in the future. What is wealth? I know many people who live in million dollar homes, have a pool, 2-3 cars, designer clothes, 4-5 vacations per year, income of over a mil a year and most consider them wealthy. Unless everything is paid for and they live on a cash basis, then they are not wealthy. Lose the job.......lose everything they have. Only the "old" monied families are wealthy. They do not have debts. Oh, but say the nouveau riche have invested wisely, so they can pay off their debts.
Pay off their debts, then how will they live day to day? Also, if the companies in which they invested go under, they have no investments to depend upon. Is it reasonable to assume that Donald Trump is debt-free? No, he owes billions on the real estate that is in his name. Private and commercial bankruptcies are at an all time high and soon the banks cannot operate with deficients higher than assets. Unless one owns gold, silver, platinum (physical, not stocks) or a never ending supply of potable water, he is not wealthy. The old money knows this and have their supply of physical. Physical is the one thing that is barterable, because the one who has it can barter for what he wants and the receiver can do the same. To claim wealth, one must see the debit sheet blank and the asset sheet full.

[Edit]

N.Y. -- volavka, 06:06:58 09/18/03 Thu

Exchanges will move offshore because of the greed of a few clowns.
Wake up n.y. turning 2nd class.

[Edit]

South Africans -- volavka, 05:57:04 09/18/03 Thu

Go for the gold, they're going much higher.

[Edit]

Cheney Says Pre-emption Needed to Thwart Terrorism -- Netking, 05:25:40 09/18/03 Thu

"...Addressing the annual convention of the Air Force Association in Washington September 17, Cheney responded to those who question the Bush administration's policy of taking pre-emptive action against terrorists...

"Make no mistake," he said, "President Bush is acting to protect the American people against further attacks, even when that means moving aggressively against would-be attackers." The former Cold War deterrence strategy of putting at risk the assets one's adversary values most is no longer appropriate to the new threat posed by terrorists, the vice president said, because there is nothing the terrorists "value highly enough that we can put at risk to keep them from launching an attack against the United States."

"We need a strategy that puts us on the offense, that lets us go after those who pose a threat to the United States or our friends and allies -- a strategy that allows us to destroy the terrorists before they can launch attacks against us," said Cheney. "We cannot wait to act...."
[snips copied under 'fair use' from Scoop]

[Edit]

ah Rex, you mean you block these wonderous little bots? -- Cor Tauri, 05:05:58 09/18/03 Thu

Rex, thats such a shame that you block such a interesting twist of the net. Saudis got the bomb. I came upon this idea of the web bots several years ago. Shrub treason. I read about it then, but lost track of the site. Elections rigged, always have been. I think I was turned off by some fee or charge to learn the "good dirt". Usama Bin Ladin, Ladin anagram Nidal, abu nidal. As I recall the way the thing worked was it was keeping track of the frequency of various topics, maybe in conjunction with other topics, and when the frequency picked up, this registered a hit. CIA made him up. Sort of like advanced signal inteligence work using the vast number of conversations on the internet as signals source and background noise. Charlie stole the handle. I just am very interested in any unusual use of the internet to get a hint as to whats going on. Sell your dollars, it's finished.

[Edit]

Rex re Webbots -- auspec, 04:41:54 09/18/03 Thu

Thank you Sir, for the comprehensive explanation. Much help. Big Brother surely likes this tool as well, no?

[Edit]

doodie -- volavka, 04:29:29 09/18/03 Thu

I believe commercial loggers call the soft sponge(bob)(grasso)wood doodie. It rots and decays and is worthless (worth less.

Loss of confidence just like the fraud money system and the fraud fed tax system will show the people that metal molds men into the truth.

Stay long and think strong.
Whimps and pencil necks do not apply.

[Edit]

John Embry per GATA -- auspec, 03:44:43 09/18/03 Thu

[GATA] Sprott Asset Management's Embry identifies gold's
doomed enemies
Date: 9/17/2003 9:23:34 PM Central Standard Time
From: GATAComm@aol.com
To: gata@yahoogroups.com

9:46p ET Wednesday, September 17, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Thanks so much to our friend Mark Webber for the
incredible work of transcribing Tuesday's
wonderful interview with John Embry, president
of Sprott Asset Management, by ROB-TV during the
"Lunch Money" and then the "Market Call" programs.
The programs are supposed to be accessible via the
Internet for a week, but I've been unable to get the
connection to work with my media players, so you're
on your own here:

http://www.robtv.com/channels/hubs/pastprograms_highlights_tue.html

Embry once more lays out the facts of international
currency debasement and identifies some of the
forces that intervene in the market against a higher
gold price.

Appended is the interview as transcribed by Mark, to
whom GATA once again is deeply grateful.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

"Lunch Money with Michael Hainsworth"
12p ET Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2003
Report on Business Television, Canada

Michael Hainsworth: John Embry is the president of Sprott
Asset Management in Toronto, and he's a gold enthusiast,
not a gold bug!

John Embry: That's right, Michael. I'm a gold enthusuiast!

(Studio erupts in laughter.)

Hainsworth: OK. I just wanted to make that correction for
you. First of all, Rob McEwen over at Goldcorp was saying
this morning that he sees gold hitting $800 in the next six
to eight years. Does that jibe with you?

Embry: Absolutely. I know Rob well and I've spoken with
him on the subject. People keep thinking of gold going
up. I think they've got to condition themselves to think
about the value of money going down. All you have to do
is see what's going on in the United States right now. And
it's very easy to envision: Gold going up, money going down.
The other thing is nobody really wants to see their currency
appreciate against the U.S. dollar. So as the dollar comes
under downward pressure, you're going to see stimulation
and money printing in all the other countries. That's the kind
of environment that's terrific for gold.

Hainsworth: The U.S. dollar isn't going to go down to 10 cents
against the euro any time soon.So what are the factors that
lead you to believe we could see bullion, in less than 10 years,
at $800?

Embry: Well, very simply, the fact that ALL of the currencies
are going to go down because of the U.S. dollar. That currency
looks extremely vulnerable -- fundamenatally, technically.
And at the same time, as I just said, the euro. ... They can't
have it at 1.40-1.50 euro or their economy doesn't work. So
as the pressure is exerted downward on the U.S. dollar, these
guys are going to be trying to withstand the upward pressure
on their currencies. And they're going to be taking stimulative
action. People are going to get out of money. And they're going
to be going to gold -- tangibles. Gold isn't the only thing that's
going to go up a lot. It's going to be like the '70s -- out of
money, into tangibles.

Hainsworth: Into something that, if you dropped it on your foot,
it would hurt?

Embry: Absolutely. It's something that is limited in supply, which
paper money most assuredly isn't!

Hainsworth: Let's talk about supply then, on the gold front anyway,
because there's a restriction of the supply. Not a lot of new mines
in the offing. The demand has continued to rise, as you suggest,
and will skyrocket as we look at weakening currencies.

Embry: That's right.

Hainsworth: So what do we do to alleviate that pressure? Or do
gold companies bother?

Embry: Gold companies ... I mean it's going to be a BONANZA
for gold companies. Thet're going to raise money. They're going
to explore. And eventually more mines will come in. This is a
very slow process, particularly today. Because permitting is
such a large issue, it takes a long time to go before finding
something and getting it into production. So I'm looking at a
window of four to five years in which this large supply/demand
gap -- between mine supply and natural demand for gold -- is
going to be there and is probably going to expand if investment
demand continues to pick up in lieu of people wanting to hold
currencies.

Hainsworth: In the meantime, instead of boosting reserves by
digging more holes in the ground, a lot of companies have been
on the acquisition trail. How much longer can that continue?
How long before we have only three gold companies in the entire
world?

Embry: I would have thought, actually, there would have been
more activity on the consolidation front. i think there is an ego
issue here. Like a lot of managements, their stuff's worth more
than the next guy's. But it's easier to acquire stuff than to find
it. There's a reason why gold is called a precious metal. It's
not that easy to find.

Hainsworth: You suggest that there other commodities in other
areas that people will be getting into as we move on in the next
few years. What areas are you suggesting?

Embry: I think virtually any commodity. You'll probably be
surprised at the prices. Your loaf of bread may end up costing
a whole lot more than you think.

Hainsworth: OK, John. We appreciate you for joining us.

Embry: My pleasure, as always.

* * *

"Market Call with Jim O'Connell"
12:30p ET Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2003
Report on Business Television, Canada

Jim O'Connell: Are we in a correction now in gold?

John Embry: Yes, I think we are. I don't know if its going
to be a lengthy one, necessarily, but, we certainly have
been since the last three or four days. There's been pressure
on both bullion and the shares.

O'Connell: What's causing that?

Embry: Bullion looked like it was just about ready to break
out smartly late last week and the chaps on the other side
who have a history of coming in at potential breakouts and
really leaning on the market, the bullion banks -- Goldman
Sachs, Morgan, Deutsche Bank -- got involved in the fray
this time. They came out on the floor and were just selling,
selling, selling 'til they broke the price. So we'll have to wait
and see. There's lots more and more buying coming into the
pits. There's a big group of people who want to be long gold.
There's going to be various skirmishes, but in the end the
price is going to break significantly to the upside. When?
It's getting closer.

O'Connell: The forces that don't want that -- can you
explain the rationale why they're doing that?

Embry: I think they've got probably derivative positions, various
short positions that would be impaired by a sharply higher gold
price. And I'm not sure that the central banks, who probably aid
and abet them in certain ways, want to see a higher gold price
either, because it would speak to the monetary debasement
that is very actively under way.

O'Connell: But you're saying the long forces that do want a
higher gold price will prevail in the end?

Embry: I think they will.

O'Connell: Why do you say that?

Embry: It's not that they want a higher gold price. I think a
higher gold price is inevitable because the value of money
is going to decrease due to the rapidly increasing supply of
money.

O'Connell: So this is a case of global currency debasement?

Embry: Absolutely.

O'Connell: U.S. dollar-led?

Embry: U.S. dollar-led, for sure. But you can see the Chinese,
who are just tremendously competitive, don't want their yuan
up. The Japanese have been buying U.S. Treasuries hand
over fist because they do not want the yen up particularly with
the yuan tied to the U.S. dollar. People talk about a very strong
euro? I think a 1.40 Euro would be the death knell for Europe.
I think they're not terribly competitive now, and at a much higher
euro vis-a-vis the Asian currencies and the dollar, I think they'd
be in depression. Right now they're arguably in recession.

O'Connell: So, what's it going to take to have this breakout, a
substantial breakout?

Embry: I just think one day there will be enough buying
marshalled. And it actually looked like that might have been
what was going on late last week. But again, these guys. ...
As the old line goes: "Desperate people do desperate things."
And they do NOT want the gold price through certain levels.
They will fight tooth and nail.

----------------------------------------------------

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[Edit]

Iraq - Cont. -- Netking, 22:27:55 09/17/03 Wed

Latest comments from Blix add further heat
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=444483

Andrew Gilligan accepted he was mistaken to state the claim that Saddam Hussein could launch chemical or biological weapons within 45 minutes despite knowing it was "probably wrong"
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=444482

[Edit]

@auspec.. You Asked "What is a Webbot?" -- Rex, 22:14:35 09/17/03 Wed

Webbots 101..

Answer:
They come in different flavors, for various shenanigans..

Essentially, they are "automatic browsers" (software) that
are programmable to goto specified -or- unspecified websites,
and once there at the target, will "crawl" through that entire
website, following each and every http: url (usually clickable links)
and recording (into a database)(at the launching entity),
everything found there.

Later, that database can be searched or scanned for whatever
info the entity is searching for.

Common Internet "Search Engines" (such as www.google.com)
crawl thru the entire internet recording everything found,
and storing it in a searchable database accessable by surfers.
-- To find references to any given word or phrase.

Other more nefarious entities program their webbots to crawl
thru the entire internet looking for (and recording) anything
that appears to be an email address. ie: anything@anything.anything

Those are then used or sold to spammers as sucker lists.

Webbots commonly crawl thru the entire spectrum of Voy.Com
forums, ours and all the others, because Voy.com has made
it easy to discover the forum addresses. ie: they are numerically
consecutive.. Easy to guess them.

Whereas other forums use coded urls, which are harder for
webbots to find, unless they are linked from some site,
which they almost always are, where the webbot has stumbled upon
in previous crawling.

Imagine, auspec, if you turned on your browser, and clicked
upon every link you see, followed them all, clicking on every
link found on down the line, and copy/pasted all the data you read
into a special folder on your harddisk.. Alot of info would be
at your fingertips..

The webbots you asked about (apparently) target specific
financial sites, recording posted data found therein, and
later, the entity will search that recorded database for
info that can be used to quantify "what people at those
sites have been talking about". Their results then, tabulated
into what they feel is pertinent (and ever changing percentage) new
info or current directions of institutional thinking. Etc..

Hope that helps.

FYI:

The only way to prevent webbots from searching a site is to keep the
site's url a secret, or block clickable access to it. ER trys to
do that, via our home entry page which webbots are unable to click
thru. Webbots cannot actually "click" on anything, rather, they search
the background html of that page for http urls, then just simply
goto each one. If you design a web page with no imbedded http urls,
a webbot cannot logically go to what it cannot see. ER uses a special
javascript (much as we hate javascript) to scramble our entry url:

You may recall having seen it..

http://OS2Eagle.Net/SSL/f1m.htm

Webbots are unable to unscramble it, infact, must ignore it, thinking
that it's not a url whatsoever. Fight fire with fire -- the magic
and power of nefarious javascripts..

For non-javascript access, surfers are told to manually enter the
ER url, shown in a non-clickable "image" that is displayed. Webbots
are incapable of "seeing" urls within an image. ie: thwarted again.

Password-protected websites are another way to block webbots, but
usually require javascript to do that or other special features
that often are incompatible with some browser versions, so can be
problematic for many bonafide users.

The internet is a big, wide-open place. Do not -ever- expect to
have privacy once you connect onto the internet..

..Rx

[Edit]

Current POG & POS & U$D Live Price -- CHARTs, 21:32:57 09/17/03 Wed

[Edit]

HIV -- qwerty, 18:42:47 09/17/03 Wed

===
Anyhow, at the risk of turning this place into the dodgy pennystock tout emporium, this rocket from the CYPT mob flew up 1200% in ~3 weeks based on strong news plus awareness, but now has retraced ~25%. They've got a FDA & WHO approved urine test for HIV, to superseed the more expensive/dangerous/fiddly blood-based tests. Good to 99.7% apparently. Their story checks out... they got a lot more to them than your average penny story. Got Magic Johnson as a board member... turns out he's not just a b-ball & womanizing superstar, he also owns his own bank nowadays, (apparently.)
===

the governments story on HIV has never checked out

even Montagnue the discoverer of the supposed HIV has been mystified for a long time on how HIV causes AIDS

even after 20 years, there has been no real change of opinion within the scientific body concerning HIV AIDS although at least some of the ones who didn't go along with the bs got defunded and punished for not going along

it does say a lot about the so called gay political groups ... most are just fronts

corruption is rampant in science and medical research in particular

magic johnson wanted to run for political office ... been real quiet about the govt cover up ... he fits well with the scumbags in washington

[Edit]

incoherent -- qwerty, 17:56:24 09/17/03 Wed

>Six out of 10 Americans believe the administration does not have a coherent plan for Iraq...

and at least 7 out of 10 americans are politically incoherent themselves

[Edit]

Lay Offs -- All Seeing Eye, 16:09:02 09/17/03 Wed

RJ Reynolds to lay off 40% of working force.
Another indication that our economy is recovering

[Edit]

Republicans & Conservatism.....................Not -- auspec, 15:05:02 09/17/03 Wed

http://www.patriotist.com/baldwin.htm

[Edit]

Bunker -- volavka, 06:50:56 09/17/03 Wed

Go buy a bunk of plywood or precuts.
Bunker hunt, forget the wolmanized, silver inject the suckers.

Got woodie, get silver.

[Edit]

Auspec -- volavka, 06:00:22 09/17/03 Wed

odds for + day in metals are 96%
odds for 50.00 move dependent upon resistance levels being taken out, 4 to go now.
many

gins bombay saffire
beefeaters

vodkas
grey goose

wines many

[Edit]

Silver guys -- Netking, 00:04:54 09/17/03 Wed

A new one from Morgan: "Show me the silver" . . . enjoy.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/morgan/091603.htm

[Edit]

Sth Axis.....................Oops -- auspec, 19:17:41 09/16/03 Tue

Oops..............still a good article, yep. Unless one understands PNAC, which is historical FACT, one is totally mislead by all the war games.

PNAC will have to take center stage as these war issues surface more and more in this coming election season. Not that I would trust Bush's opposition for a nanosecond.

I saw on the net today that the US is unconcerned about its mounting debts because it expects to be bailed out by the likes of IMF and global enlistments. Nothing good will come of this de facto bankruptcy, das fo sure.

mini

[Edit]

A'spector -- Sth Axis, 19:06:50 09/16/03 Tue

Good article mon, Ag_Eagle posted it here also on 11:45:28 09/14/03 Sun

[Edit]

mr v -- auspec, 18:09:28 09/16/03 Tue

any odds given on that one?
favorite adult/child beverage?

[Edit]

50.00 -- volavka, 17:26:23 09/16/03 Tue

$$$$$$50.00$$$$$$$$$$
move coming in gold now.

[Edit]

Dyslexia?? -- auspec, 17:09:13 09/16/03 Tue

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/comment/0,1320,1036772,00.html

[Edit]

Trying Once More......... -- auspec, 17:07:47 09/16/03 Tue

http://politics.guardian.co.uk.attacks/comment/0,1320,1036772,00.html

[Edit]

Bogus War? Read This Article Before It's Pulled! -- auspec, 17:06:22 09/16/03 Tue

http://www.guardian.co.uk.attacks/comment/0,1320,1036772,00.html

[Edit]

Web Bots? -- auspec, 16:10:20 09/16/03 Tue

From www.urbansurvival.com {under Daily Report.......free}:

BOT SHOCKER: IRAQ'S BIGGEST LIE WASN'T WMD'S

IT WAS OIL!

It finally all fits: Why the U.S. went into Iraq, why there are no WMD's being found, and what ex-President George Bush Senior may be doing in Russia - helping to negotiate oil deals and get control of gold trades as fast as the U.S. can!. Here's the BIG PICTURE low down from the web bots:

The web bots have pick up enough snippets of traffic out of Europe, specifically Swiss banker types and financial type sources, that suggest that Saddam Hussein not only lied about having WMD's but that more important - to the whole world - he lied about oil reserves as well!

Saddam's motivation for lying about the WMD's seems clear in retrospect: He lied about them to keep Iran at bay on his Northern Frontiers, to keep Syria at arms length, and to insure that the Israeli's were held in check and the Saudis left him alone.

According to the snips, relayed to me in a no-longer-confidential backgrounder with approval to release now, the amount of oil that will ultimately be recovered from Iraq may already be on the declining side of the Hubbert peak. In other words, the 3-million BPD that was being pumped before the U.S. invasion may have been all anyone would EVER get from the fields, complete with rising salt water content and worse.

This also neatly explains why the Iraqi's went into hyper-drive and invaded Kuwait which precipitated the first Iraq war: You may recall that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling (sideways drilling) across the border. If Saddam really had gobs of oil, he would not have gone ballistic, angry yes but invasion no. As the bots have it, there wasn't much left up north. The loss of any oil would have tipped off the big lie.

The Bush administration appears to be about to "hit the rocks" over oil in Iraq. The danger the administration faces is that if the word leaks out of the Iraq shortfall, before Bush Sr.a nd the Mobil/Exxon and ChevronTexaco parties can buy long term oil from Russia, the whole Western derivatives pyramid will come crashing down and our markets could be toast within 2 weeks..

Our foreign correspondent, Tim B (who is in Canada) sends this: " Not only King Gyorgyi who is in Russia striking up deals! - See: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/03/001.html. "

Moscow Times article: "

The Moscow Times 9-15-3

He may be retired from public life but George Bush seems to cause a stir every time he comes to Russia.

You name it and market players were buzzing Thursday about the real reasons behind the former American leader's visit -- an $18 billion play by U.S. oil giant ChevronTexaco for a blocking stake in the new Yukos-Sibneft combo? The launch of a $500 million private tie-up between Alfa Group and Pentagon-connected Carlyle Group? Divvying up the hydrocarbon resources of postwar Iraq?….

Bush last came to Moscow in June of 1998 -- just two months before the economy imploded -- for the lavish opening of international investment banking giant Goldman Sachs' office here. –END-

See Pravada coverage at http://www.fin-rus.com/analysis/rsitem001BE/default.asp It's the kind of situation where an ex-President/oilman on hand would be a dandy asset. Looks to us like the Russians may try to replace OPEC's power - and they'll do it for cash and loans!

We haven't the resources or the bandwidth to run a whole bot structure and put it up in the Intellicad program and model the entities that are "turning inside out", but if you're an Inside Report subscriber, you know that that curious phrase "turning inside out" had popped up in the past week in many of our general daily inputs (out of our daily sampling of about 8,000 snips per day that come trickling in). The report is not that "Iraq has no oil"....it is that "Iraq has very significantly less oil than was ever previously believed".

As a thought exercise today, here's a killer: If we really went into Iraq because of oil, what will the effect be if (or we think more likely when) the web bots prove right again - and that Iraq lying about WMD's was nothing. Theysignificantly lied about oil and the whole world - along with the Bush administration - has been suckered and they're starting to figure that out.

Believe me, we'll be looking at global oil forecasts much more cynically going forward because it may be that Saddam has lied about his oil reserve for upwards of 40-years - and in that time, a he had plenty of time to control the lie and build it, so it has a great foundation.

What it doesn't have - say the web bots - is legs.

When you understand what the bots seem to be pointing to, you'll see how if true, this will instantly put the world to the brink of an Olduvai event - a massive die-off of humans because we will have out populated the world's energy supply. That won't happen overnight, but over 10-20 years. In the process, globalization will end and local survival will become the major objective.

Oh yeah, one other thing: $400 gold within 2-4 weeks if the code critters are right. And worse? $800 by year's end is not out of the question.

Want one more? OK --- You asked for it: Bot's report the Japanese are being pressured prior to the G-8 next week that they must stop defending the U.S. dollar!
END
*****************************************

Fair use........educational purposes.

Comment: Can somebody explain to me what exactly a "web bot" is? Tracking system?

What is the Wimp doing in Russia?

[Edit]

Looking Ahead -- Frisco Fred, 16:02:05 09/16/03 Tue

The third month of two thousand four
Hunger and thirst will be at every door
Listen NOW to your most basic wisdom
And you'll be prepared for ultimate freedom.

Freedom from hunger
Freedom from thirst
Freedom from lies
From those that are cursed.

Life then will be an easy chore
For those who keep only their share
Greed will carry many with buckets of bills
To dust cause no one will care.

[Edit]

Silver -- auspec {Axis of Evil Founding Member}, 15:04:14 09/16/03 Tue

This silver snippet is out of tonight's MIDAS with permission:

With bullion not too far off its lows, Morgan Stanley and others began buying December silver and selling March, sending the spread into a one to three cent backwardization. Silver moved off its lows and gold quickly followed, popping up off its bottom of the session. Late in the day, The Gold Cartel gave gold one last shot on the downside. When it didn’t work, the locals covered and gold rallied $1.

As you know, MIDAS has suspected something’s up and different as far as gold goes for some time now. Add to that the more recent news of the $4.6 billion buyer. During this period, gold has traded differently than it has in the past. The firmness of the physical market has made it most difficult for The Gold Cartel to knock it down as they did so easily in years past. Now the evidence is building, there is a "silver buying group" to buttress the efforts of The Stalker.

Last week I mentioned someone bought over 100 of the SEP silver contracts two weeks into the delivery period, which is most unusual. What is also unusual is the longs are not getting delivery notices, even at this late day. That suggests the silver market is very tight. Whoever owns silver, is keep it.

In addition, December silver closed a penny over March. Thus, silver is in backwardization, historically a very bullish development. DEC closed at $5.23, up 2 cents and the March closed at $522.5, up ½ cent. This also will not go unnoticed by the Pros.

We know how suppressed silver has been for years and how demand has outstripped supply for more than a decade. It could very well be the silver price managers have hit the wall, perhaps even more so than The Gold Cartel (that is if they are not one in the same). If that is the case and there is a huge buyer of silver, like there is in gold, look out above. Silver could roar to $6 in a nanosecond.

The increasing bullish case for silver is going to make it harder and harder for the cabal to keep gold from rising. Of course, this is one of the main reasons for suppressing the price of silver in the first place. Couldn’t rig gold and have silver on the move.

Little signs and market developments suggest silver ready to ROAR!
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/SV/C3

END

Comment: Smart money arising from an extended slumber. Can a crowded trade be far behind? The silver boys have done their homework...............damn near time for graduation ceremonies now.

[Edit]

mr v -- auspec, 14:39:41 09/16/03 Tue

dr whang gonna gather in most of "it"?

[Edit]

Galearis -- Netking, 14:31:13 09/16/03 Tue

...certainly can't hurt, no. There is even honour[honor] amongst thieves...that being the case though it is still as is said in flight, "past the point of no return". The cute paper monkey...has become a 'king kong on steroids'...can't be tamed at this point....a tsunami that must run the course...

[Edit]

Ted Butler -- Galearis, 11:58:36 09/16/03 Tue

His latest (and a good one it is too) is found here:

http://www.investmentrarities.com/

Discussion:
Plan B might work. It's SOOOO hard to get a crook to admit what they are - especially in signed written form. Maybe if someone else who was really, really BIG asked discretely......?

G.

[Edit]

hey Gann man -- number six, 07:49:20 09/16/03 Tue

you were right about that retrace. I should pay more attention to you numerological esotericists. Beats my "yeah, why the fork not?" gambling philosophy.

Anyhow, at the risk of turning this place into the dodgy pennystock tout emporium, this rocket from the CYPT mob flew up 1200% in ~3 weeks based on strong news plus awareness, but now has retraced ~25%. They've got a FDA & WHO approved urine test for HIV, to superseed the more expensive/dangerous/fiddly blood-based tests. Good to 99.7% apparently. Their story checks out... they got a lot more to them than your average penny story. Got Magic Johnson as a board member... turns out he's not just a b-ball & womanizing superstar, he also owns his own bank nowadays, (apparently.) (And you know how great we all think bankers are ... errrmm...) ;) But yeah, he's the highest profile most "marketable" aids guy in the world, and he's signed on to CYPT... he surely doesn't need the money! And the co got a recent $10 million injection from a one Marat Safin of Russia... surely it's the tennis guy, right? Anyhow, there's enough celebrity power to propel this one into story-mania land, should the techstocknuts take it running, a possibility volavka mentioned.

So, all in all, I could realistically see them shipping many millions of units per year, but I have zero expertise in the field of bio-yaya, and they're probably busy doing a 90% retrace as I type!... But I see them as more of an entertaining gamble rather than as somewhere to put your life savings. ...getting kicked ot of the netcafe-boozer here.. adieu.... buy imxpf.... maybe g5reatest silver find ever...many folks are opining. I'm holding.

[Edit]

Silver -- Galearis, 06:14:01 09/16/03 Tue

Puplava's Piece. Nicely explained article concerning the Comex shorts:

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/daily/monday.htm

[Edit]

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