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Date Posted: 15:20:56 02/13/03 Thu
Author: Admiral Horatio "Old Fashioned Southern Whoop Ass" Lion at the helm
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 12.21.138.230
Subject: A reply to the guy dressed like a battleship and with his own torpedoes protruding from his backside
In reply to: Z-Dr 's message, "Re: When your own torpedoes are in the water, try not to act like an battleship" on 23:47:18 02/06/03 Thu


Oh, shiny-pated, ethically challenged, rotund one…

I have tried to post this response since last Friday when our ISP caught total stupidity and compounded it with a gaggle of incompetent supposed technicians who could not work their way out of an electronic paper bag with super soakers. It has been only slightly less than a week since I had any form of reliable Internet access except for an all too brief period on Tuesday morning. LAF LIONS have been delayed as a result too. Nonetheless, I did not wish to allow your post to go unchallenged by a healthy dose of factual reality and truthfulness. I warned you long ago that I encourage those who hold opposing viewpoints to make their case here. That does not mean I will silently stand by as they spout emotionally based nonsense and blatantly untrue and inaccurate blathering rooted solely in mindless hatred and partisan prejudice against political leaders. You cannot dispute that every accusation against your hero, Bubba the Slut, was based on what were later proved to be FACTS. When they were not, I was among the first to so state. I have also been among those willing to launch all out verbal barrages against the current administration when I think they are acting extra-Constitutionally.

I did not use mere bullets to decimate your prior ranting and ravings. I lambasted your uniformed arguments with veritable high explosive intellectual artillery shells and bunk-busting bombardments of reasoned, rational magnificence. You are right, however. There is not much of a rational defensive position possible to you when you have your head up your own backside as seems so often to be the case with your misguided missives of malevolence that serve only to prove your own warped dislike of President Bush and his father. Thankfully, even with your limited social skills in these matters, you have refrained from attacking former President Reagan as well. It seems you do have enough wisdom to know that everyone – even those who share your warped mindset – would consider such an attack to be contemptible for almost every decent human being except James Carville, but - not to worry – Carville neither qualifies as “decent” or “human.” Both he and Bubba serve to elevate the fecal waste of pond sludge several rungs up the evolutionary ladder above them.

During Afghan occupation, the US government, by law could not supply weapons to the Afghan people through much of the occupation, until an order was given to repeal that, i.e. the sale of some 200 Stinger Missiles to the Afghan fighters to use against the Russians.

And, who dear liberal apologist, was responsible for the legal impediment to sale of weapons for self-defense against a Soviet occupation? Can you say the majority in power DUMBOCANS? Most historians with even a modicum of respect for reality can and do. Stinger missiles were finally supplied, via CIA operatives, to the Afghan rebels and they were trained in their use. The Reagan and Bush administrations were prohibited by Senate Dumbocans and a few Repooblicrats (in name only) from supplying any direct aid to the Afghan people. While those 200 shoulder-fired Stinger missiles were used well, these were no more than a pimple on the backside of a wooly mammoth. When Senate Dumbocans found out about us helping someone fight off Soviet occupation in any manner, they launched idiotic charges against the administration hoping to overturn the popular election and re-election of a man they could not defeat because he had the backing of the American electorate and who was right and has been proved to have been right repeatedly in ensuing years.

I do not deny facts of history. I do deny as being accurate or even truthful your assertion… “Our Government after the Russians left supported the Taliban as a pupet governemnt to serve our purpose and we pulled out of Afghanistan and left the people there to what became the atrocities of the Taliban encouraged no doubt by the likes of Binlaidbad and those like him (original spelling and grammar maintained as presented).”

You cannot have it both ways, sir. You claimed we could not legally be on the ground to support the Afghanis fighting the Soviets until an Executive Order allowed us to funnel money to them. For the record, Chinese and Russians had NO Stinger missiles for sale to anyone. The reasons the Afghanis used the Russian-made AK-47 rifle were simple. It is a far superior weapon to our M-16 as the standard issue weapon for infantry. It jams less frequently, is easier to maintain in the field, uses a standardized 7.62 mm round with sufficient muzzle velocity to create real stopping power and it did not have to be maintained in pristine condition (difficult at best in most combat situations) in order to work well without jamming as is the case with the M-16.

We did not “support” the Taliban, who by the way, for the sake of accuracy and truthfulness, did not assume power in Afghanistan until after the ascendancy of boy dunderhead and his faithful sidekick, Whothehellamitoday Gore to head the U. S. administration. How could we have “pulled out” when we were not there to begin with? Is that yet another liberal nocturnal emission posing as thoughtful reality?

How did we “support” the Taliban and who did it? Was it Reagan? Sorry, he was already out of office. Bush (Pop)… again, no cigar. The Taliban didn’t take power until 1994 when… ohmygawd… when BUBBA was running the foreign relations sideshow! You see, my ill-informed young friend, you can go to the federal budget expenditures for the past half century to verify the TRUTH of which you are obviously unaware, or that you choose to consciously ignore. During BUBBA’S watch, the Taliban got over 80% of its aid from the American taxpayers, courtesy of BUBBA and COHORTS!

The crap spewed recently by the Dumbocan Congressbroad from the left coast and out of left field somewhere is just that – barnyard droppings. Beenlaidbad did not spend huge amounts of his own money to build day care centers, roads and hospitals for the Afghan people. He built a few primitive medical centers that only cared for wounded and ill Al Qaeda fighters. There was not a single “day care center” built by him or anyone else and the only roads he built were to improve his access to his training camps.


Official United States government budget records irrefutably substantiate all of this information for all the years involved. Those records are readily available in digest form through the Congressional Budget Office, the General Services Administration and the Library of Congress. You will notice that not one of those sources is a human being of any political bent and they are all official agencies and all just present raw and tabulated numbers that anyone with the ability to understand what they mean can analyze.

Clinton administration officials were allowed to skate on a Congressional investigation into the mismanagement and outright theft of funds supposedly destined for the Afghan people but that were most often being redirected to Taliban oppression and “rebel groups” (Al Qaeda). Efforts to hold hearings on this were blocked by Charles Shummer (D-NY), Ted Kennedy (D-MA), John Kerry (D-MA) and Christopher Dodd (D-CT) in the Senate, Charlie Rangel (D-NY), Gerald Nadler (D-NY), John Lewis (D-GA) and Diane Feinstein (D-CA) in the House. Again, this is all part of the readily available Congressional Record, the official record of Congress as dictated by Congressional action dating back to the formation of this nation.

I will say it up front. I DESPISE WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON! I despise him, but not because he is a Dumbocan. I detest him because I consider him to be the epitome of evil personified in our culture. The damage he has done to the very moral fabric of our national culture may never be repaired. I think he is a sleaze because he is a sexual predator without the moral integrity of a sea slug. He is an admitted and proved liar, a perjurer, a thief and a traitor who sold out our nation’s interests for illegal campaign funds. Were he a Repooblicrat, I would still feel the same way about him and his consort bitch, Hillary. They are slime and only other equally lower life form slime could ever defend them, as far as I am concerned. Were he Repooblicrat, you would be foaming at the mouth to have him crucified.

Yes, I am a Marine. No Marine is ever again less than that. I may no longer hold active duty status, but being a Marine is more than a name and membership designation. A Marine is something few liberals can ever even understand.

A Marine is not just a man or a woman in a uniform. A Marine is a man or woman who stands firmly on principles, honor, dignity and integrity, all the things most liberals lack and cannot comprehend. He or she accepts personal responsibility and assumes the obligations imposed by his or her citizenship. A Marine is the exact thing that Bubba despised most for Marines are everything he and his cohorts can never be and they know it.

As for my strategic thinking processes, they are still working quite well and obviously much better than your tangled mental gymnastics.

September 11th was not a tragedy. A tragedy is when your dog gets hit by a car and killed. A tragedy is when you spill peas from your dinner plate and wine from your wine glass onto a newly installed white carpet in a friend’s new home. What happened on September 11, 2001, was an abomination that cannot be allowed to go unchallenged and unpunished.

You are right. The people behind that attack, even those on the periphery of the plan, need to die a hideous death and immediately so. They should be joined by every idiot that whimpers about the inhumanity of eliminating these human monsters from the face of the planet. If I had my way, I’d make certain they knew that every bullet, every rocket, every Claymore mine, every grenade, every bomb in the U. S. arsenal was first dipped in pig’s blood before being used to annihilate them. I’d make sure they knew that we would throw pig entrails in the graves of every one of them we find and kill and that we would allow Jewish women to supervise their burials. Then I would get really nasty with them.

As for Afghanistan’s importance to us, you have been puffing on that funny tobacco again, haven’t you? Afghanistan is nearly useless as a defensible base of operations against the Chinese. There was a time when it would have allowed access to the underbelly of the Soviet Union, but we have excellent relationships with all of those breakaway republics in that region now making the resource poor and geographically useless Afghan superfluous at best. We don’t need Afghanistan for that purpose. In fact, we don’t need it for any purpose other than to shore up Russia. It is far more vital to Russia than it could ever have been to us.

Pakistan only has value to our needs for the moment because of its proximity to Afghanistan and the Al Qaeda terrorists. Thanks to the direction begun under Reagan and Bush (Pop), American policy in the India-Pakistan-Kashmir-Bangladesh region has been primarily hands off. The Russian influence in India has been sufficient motivation without much effort on our parts to drive the people of Bangladesh and Pakistan to our side.

Of course we leave troops behind, just as we have in Koslovo, Serbia and the Czech Republic… just as we did in Japan and Germany and France. Unfortunately for the Balkan people, Bubba was at the helm when they managed to bring down Milosevic. Only an idiot would defeat a nation and then leave their people to their own devices or to wallow in misery not the fault of the victors but of their own despotic government that forced us to war. When that happens, we get the ascendancy of a Mussolini and a Hitler as was allowed to happen by FDR. That is what Bubba and Gorp did to them on their watch. One day we will have to pay the price of their perfidy.

These are nothing more NOR LESS than the humanitarian tasks that are self imposed by good and decent people for helping a people rebuild a free country for themselves after we have defeated their former government… something that we Americans consider to be an equally important part of waging any war. That is not the case with despots and the darlings of the liberal world. They occupy with intent to dominate and subjugate. We defeat tyrants and then stick around to rebuild free nations as we did for Germany and Japan.

Where is the liberal outcry over Saddam’s demonstrated deceits, lies and deceptions? Are they truly so stupid as to believe that this all about oil and making the Bushes and Cheney rich? That is a disgusting and patently false and slanderous accusation born of the frustration of the leftists who have been repudiated by Americans of late.

As for being on the verge of middle-eastern oil, how much closer do we need to get than Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and the other middle-eastern states? Your argument is specious on that basis alone. Perhaps the lack is not in my ability to think strategically, but rather in the basis for your arguments that only hold water if we deny realities that exist. Sir, the reality is that this Bush (Son) had to go in and clean up the mess your lying, corrupt, sexual predator hero left behind. If you wish to honestly place blame, then look to that eight-year period in which our military was gutted to become a social experiment for liberal idiots. Place the blame squarely at the feet of your traitorous DUMBOCANS who gutted and emasculated the CIA, the DIA, the NSA and all of our intelligence assets. Those are the people who sold us out for their own venal political purposes. You need to adhere to truth and realities if you wish to debate the subject with me, sir. The reality is that someone had to go in and cleanup after the messes left by the likes of Carter, the incompetent boob, and Clinton, the corrupt traitor and sleazy excuse for a human being he is.

You don’t "hear them calling for our help?” Then you are either stone deaf, oblivious to what is happening in the world or totally unable to understand spoken and written English. What you do hear are French and German governments scared to death of what we may discover should we level the Hussein tyranny. We are almost certain to find many of the prohibited weapons that he claims don’t exist and they will all bear French, Russian and German brand names and fingerprints.

They are so vocal because they want to maintain their monopolies on Iraqi oil that they negotiated despite a UN prohibition on such dealings. Isn’t it odd how they chose to ignore those UN resolutions that don’t meet with their desires and suddenly tout such a resolution as being essential for world order when they are about to get caught?

No, we won’t immediately pull out of Iraq. That is – and has always been – a hallmark of American involvement in any war. We do not destroy and walk away. We don’t leave dictatorships behind though they may devolve into such through the corruption of the population over a period of time. We have, as a people, yet to grasp the cultural differences between peoples around the globe. We blithely expect everyone else to have the same cultural imperatives as we have. That’s the same stupid thought process that cost so many lives among colonists who headed west in the 1800’s. It cost the lives of many men and women in two World Wars and in Korea and Viet Nam. It is the foolishness that prevented us from finishing Hussein in 1991 so that we now have the job to finish.

As for PRESIDENT BUSH, crossing “i’s” and dotting “t’s,” he has done so for a truly foolish reason in my opinion and I have stated that from the outset. He is not doing it because his father said he had to do it, though I don’t doubt that Bush (Pop) is still that disconnected with the real world. President George W. Bush, the man elected to do the job, has been doing so to silence critics and to permit the likes of Colin Powell to accomplish that which cannot be done. I didn’t see any need for us to go to the UN Security Council in the first place. I still don't.

This would not be a “new” or a “preemptive” strike as is claimed by the hopelessly clueless. I will repeat it one last time for you. If your mind cannot comprehend this simple reality and factual bit of life as it truly is, then no amount of explanation will ever help you understand and the best thing that you can do in those circumstances would be to just go sit on the sidelines and let responsible, mature, thinking adults handle responsible adult things.

Listen closely. I will type slowly so that you can have a chance to understand the undeniable realities here.

In 1991, in response to Saddam Hussein’s INVASION of a peaceful neighboring nation – e.g.: KUWAIT – and the human rights abuses he imposed on its people, our nation lead a coalition of nations, including most of Iraq’s neighbors – without UN sanction, by the way - to throw Hussein and his thieves out of Kuwait. Because George H. W. Bush stupidly listened to the likes of Powell and the gaggle of doofi, pinstriped jerks in the State Department, we did not finish the job we started. While our spinelss diplomatic people were concerned about what middle-eastern neighbors of Iraq would think if we finished the job, those same nations were begging us to finish him off.

Once again, the mealy-mouthed idiots in the diplomatic corps prevailed. That’s the same group I consider to be almost single handedly most responsible for the deaths of so many Americans in the Viet Nam and Korean conflicts. We have all the clones of Neville Chamberlain we could ever need, or want, in Foggy Bottom and they are as equally asinine as he was.

PAY ATTENTION HERE: Saddam Hussein signed a ceasefire agreement to save his ass. In that agreement he pledged to abide by certain rules and requirements. He has repeated violated those terms. We did not need to obtain UN approval for that ceasefire agreement. We don’t need it to impose the terms of that agreement on him now. We are simply returning to finish what he tried to prevent from happening by lying, cheating and deceiving. Our justification is contained in the original cease fire agreement.

We don’t need anyone’s approval to defend our nation from the prospect of terrorists enabled by, funded by, trained and supplied by Hussein from showing the idiots a smoking gun in the form of more dead innocent American civilians in our homeland. By the time we see that “smoking gun,” it will have already been fired. It may even take the form of a mushroom cloud over an American city.

Just how many more Americans are you willing to see slaughtered, Z-dr?

I don’t give a damned about the sensibilities or pious pabulum puking of liberals and peace-at-any-cost-to-us-mongers who are against stopping him in the only way such animals understand and respect. I don’t want ANY more Americans to die so that they can feel smugly superior in the face of their own treachery. Not one single additional American ought to die because the likes of Susan Sarandon, Martin and Charlie Sheen, Mike Farrell, Barbara Streissand, Richard Gere, George Clooney, Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Ed Asner or any of those other idiots don’t wish to understand, or acknowledge, realities that are so easily understood by everyone else.

I will say again that you are full of crap with your mindless, unthinking hatred of all things Bush, whether unjustifiable by facts and reality or not. From what I have seen, you would choke on a lie that makes Bushes (or any Repooblicrat) look bad rather than swallow a bitter truth that shows you to be a mindless, partisan hater. That’s all that your arguments boil down to, Z-dr. Nothing more! You are bitterly jealous of their financial success... so much so that you purposefully overlook the Machivellian machinations of the likes of the Kennedy clan and John Kerry who made money the old fashioned way. He married it!

You have your head so far up Tom Dashle’s backside, there is no way you can see anything but his crap and that is exactly what you have been spewing here. You spew class warfare and hatred... nothing more of substance than that.

I find that thinking repugnant to me for my success or failure is and always has been and will be my own personal responsibility. No one owes it to me or anyone else. My fortune is not in someone else's checking account or wallet unless I earn it. We ended slavery in this nation, so why do you demand that you have a right to force anyone to work and give that money they earn to someone else?

As far as backing Hussein over the Ayatollahs of Iran, I am with Henry Kissinger who said, “It’s a damned shame they can’t both lose that war!” Just in case you forgot, or choose again to ignore another truth, Iran is the nation that held our diplomats hostage for 444 days while Jimmuh the Geek (Dumbocan) wrung his hands and whimpered in pious ineptitude. As bad as Hussein was, at that time he was laying it to the people who would have otherwise been spreading their war of mindless hatred against us farther afield. They were too busy with Saddam to bother us then. And, just for the accurate historical record – NEITHER SIDE can claim victory in that dustup. They both quit because neither could win.

Only a total idiot, an ignorant ass or a bald faced liar would deny that Saddam has enabled terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda, Abu Nidal, Hamas, PLO, Sendero Luminoso, the IRA and others under the Hussein dictatorship. Al Jezeera television regularly covers presentations of checks from Hussein to the families of terrorists who have achieved “martyrdom” by killing innocent people.

I am saddened to have to be the one to say this to you, Z-dr, but it has to be said. The following quotes from your post says it all and you don’t come out looking too good in the process…

Is our government above invasding oil rick countries to control the majority of the worlds oil.
Daddy Bush and Jr. made there moneyy from oil, they are shrude businesmen and them and there oil rich buddies stand a lot to gain either way. If oil prices go way up, they gain. If the U.S become the comtroller of most of the worlds oil, they gain.
Say what you want about Bubba being a liar and i'll agree with you but party affiliation aside. You dont get as rich as Poppa Bush without being greedy nor do you by being a totally honest person..and like father like son!
(grammar and spelling left unchanged)


There is an impossibility here that must be pointed out, though you obviously lack the moral depth to grasp it. Others do however have that potential, so it is said as much for them as for the vain hope that you may one day assume some degree of moral rectitude, however doubtful that may be. First of all, people can - and do - succeed without cheating, stealing or deceiving despite your denial of that. If that is true, then you have an excuse for not doing as well. If not, then you are exposed as what you are. Perhaps you forgot that the true party of the wealthy in Congress is the Dumbocan party. Dumbocan millionaires out number Repooblicrats several times over.

Your entire defense of Clinton is based on acknowledgement that he is a sleazy piece of human offal – but so what; he’s a liberal democrat and it’s allowed! Wink! Wink! He's just a good old boy and he'll hump a snake if someone will hold its head. You pay no more than lip service to his total dearth of moral values, paucity of integrity or complete lack of ethical codes of behavior. Perhaps it is because such lower life forms always seem to be the heroes of those similarly lacking in these basic human necessities. People who defend that bastard are no better than he is and they are glad they have someone they can finally measure up to. They sure as Hell can’t measure up to people of ethics, dignity, honor and moral values, so they spew hatred of anyone who demonstrates even a modicum of integrity.

Only moral midgets beleive thay can grow in stature by chopping down those who tower over them in the areas of integrity, honor, pride, dignity, moral codes and ethics.

When viewed from this standpoint, every one of your arguments make some perverted, illogical form of sense, even if they are filled with Carville-generated lies and half-truths perverted to the needs of your arguments. I would hate to think that is the case with you, Z-dr, but you do leave large areas in which doubt and concern find extremely fertile ground.

Please excuse spelling errors, i did not use spell check.

Neither did I. You see, I went to school in the days when we were expected to learn reading, writing, spelling, grammar and basic math. It was also a time in which a man's or a woman's word meant something. Those were days when integrity, honor, respect, pride and dignity were common rather than causes of derision by those who lack those traits.

Your spelling errors mean nothing. Your logical errors coupled with your denial and ignorance of readily available, provable facts based on documented history and analyzable data is not excusable, however.

Ps. please dont attempt to hide your own incompitence by attempting to make me look foolish because YOUR screwed up board postsed my last message twice, my VOY board does not lose posts nor does rearange them by itself, from my knowledge of the way the boards work here, human (board opp) interaction would have to take place for that to happen.

I left the above intact on purpose. You don't need any help from me to look foolish. Your own words are your best transporters of this truth. It is also obvious that you have no experience with Voy or the fact that numerous posters here and on other forums who left because of this type of problem have also experienced the exact same problems. This is simply a personal attack on me and unwarranted.

Just for your uninformed information, Voy has done this on more than four occasions that I can remember. Ask Secretary Sage, She was on line on Voy when they did it! Ask Mysticsis who still participates on forums that left here because of the exact same foolishness. Also, it is significant that Voy had a posted notice about "System rebuilding" taking place at the time this happened.

Please refrain from using your inexperience and self-admitted, acknowledged limited knowledge of “how the boards here work” to make foolish statements that serve no real purpose other than to take a childlike swat at someone who just handed you your head in a logical discussion of, and debate, on factual data.

Did you remember to don your life jacket, Z-dr? Your own torpedo just gave you a truthfulness and fact filled enema.



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