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Date Posted: 14:34:25 12/31/08 Wed
Author: BERTHA
Subject: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses

So far and no doubt I missed a few, notable OOC wins and losses:

Bucknell beat ODU
Holy Cross over St. Joe's and San Francisco
Lehigh over Rutgers
Navy beat Texas-San Antonio and Penn
Lafayette beat Princeton.

Some of the teams on the losing side above are not having great years but each win is still unusual.

Bad losses

Colgate versus something called Kennesaw State
Navy lost to Towson
Army dropped one to Florida Gulf Coast (they beat Penn last year but hardly even sound like a D1 program)
Colgate had the biggest loss, by 35 to a good California team. Still that means they were short almost a point per minute.
With the bulk of the OOC season winding down soon there may not be any more big upsets.

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Replies:

[> Re: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses -- bison137, 15:11:46 12/31/08 Wed

Based on Sagarin, these are the "best" teams beaten thus far by PL teams:

75.9 St. Joes (HC)
75.1 Old Dominion (Bucknell)
74.3 Albany (LU)
73.9 San Fran (HC)
73.5 Mt St Mary (Navy)
73.2 TX-S.A. (Navy)
72.5 Jacksonville (American)
71.7 Rutgers (LU)
71.3 Manhattan (American)
71.0 Binghamton (Bucknell)
70.7 Central CT (Colgate)
70.5 Drexel (Bucknell)
69.7 UMBC (American)
68.6 Stony Brook (LC/AU)


- Penn and especially Princeton are well down the list - although Penn should improve as the year goes on. Princeton is very weak.

- Although Army's loss to FL Gulf Coast was disappointing I'm not sure it was a "bad" loss since Sagarin had Army as the road underdog. In fact, five of the eight PL teams would be underdogs to FGC at their place.

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[> [> Re: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses -- Bottom Fishing, 16:03:37 12/31/08 Wed

Princeton is tough on admissions and plays by the rules on recruiting and academic standards. They are the most rigorous in the Ivy League. By comparison Cornell is at the opposite end of the spectrum in many sports such as wrestling where an "anything goes" attitude prevails. The AI's of Big Red athletes are so far below those of Princetons, you would not think they were in the same conference. Of course, having a massive freshman class and schools like Agriculture, Nursing, Hotel Admin, and something called "Human Ecology" allows for unlimited maneuvering, adjusting, and "flexibility". For this reason, the school in Ithaca is referred to as Cornell State by some.

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[> [> [> Re: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses -- bison137, 16:20:36 12/31/08 Wed

Yes, the majority of Cornell's hoops players are in their School of Agriculture. And they certainly lead the league in transfers, jucos, etc.

As for Princeton, their AI certainly doesn't help, but the basketball program didn't go into the tank for decades. After Carril departed, they were still great with Carmody and good with Thompson III. It was only after the arrival of Joe Scott that the program fell apart.

Other Princeton teams play by the rules and yet are still quite competitive.

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[> [> [> Re: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses -- ngineer, 22:04:06 12/31/08 Wed

Yes, it is amazing how the Ivy League puts up with what I refer to a SUNY-Ithaca.

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[> [> [> Re: Men's Basketball OOC wins and losses -- True about Suny - Ithaca, 02:29:00 01/01/09 Thu

Yes, the Cornell coach jumps up and down and beats his chest about winning the Ivy League wrestling championship every year. This, in fact, is a farce given the low recruiting standards for many of their athletes and their willingness to dispense aid to anyone they admit. I think this year's freshmen wrstkers hade an average AI in the mid 170's with some a level below that. This is so far beneath the other schools in their conference, it is laughable.In fact, it is a level below Bucknell where the entire student body is about equal to Suny - Ithaca's freshman class.
"Ivy League School" indeed!!!????

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[> Thanks for the stats -- BERTHA, 16:47:18 12/31/08 Wed

Seeing NEC, other formerly lesser northeastern teams creeping above us is not good.

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[> [> Re: Thanks for the stats -- bison137, 09:34:34 01/01/09 Thu

Of the NEC teams, only Mt. St. Mary's has a higher ranking than Lehigh or the other higher-ranked PL teams, and we knew MSM was going to be good before the season started so it's not a surprise. Overall, the NEC is ranked below the Patriot League.

The league that has taken a significant step up this year is America East (Vermont, Albany, Binghamton, Boston U, Stony Brook, UMBC, etc). That league consists of much larger schools than the PL, and most are state schools, so they do have some advantages.

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[> [> [> Re: Thanks for the stats -- EngineHawk, 19:24:45 01/01/09 Thu

Boston U would be a good candidate for the Patriot League for all sports. Obviously they don't have football but would provide a geographic partner for Holy Cross similar to American/Navy.

If the league were smart there would be Saturday/Sunday basketball for weekend travel to the overnight areas for both men and women who would share the same bus.

Time to face the fact that basketball is not a revenue sport in the Patriot League and look for cost cutting opportunities.

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