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Subject: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 03:13: pm

A situation that happenned to me... I think it was very unfair. A few days ago, I had a skin check up. For the exam, I was asked to strip naked. But my mom and my younger sister were present.

After that, the doctor asked me for leaving the room during my sister's exam.

Do you think it's normal ? I can understand that my mom must be present, but not for my sister.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 03:47: pm

Whether this is an acceptable practice depends mainly upon the ages of you and your sister. Since you gave us no info on that, it is impossible to answer your question.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 04:06: pm

I am 16 and my sister is 11.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
MikeT
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 05:47: pm

I don't see you mention which gender you are, but if a male, welcome to the old fashioned double standard. A lot of guys have had to go through the very thing you describe, and got kicked out of the room to give his sister privacy.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 06:29: pm

Yes, I'm a man and the doctor was a female. That was very embarassing.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
old med
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Date Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 10:27: pm

At 16 you may be a male but you aren't yet mature enough to be a man.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Nicola C
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Date Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 11:56: am

When i took my younger brother, 15, Im 19 to our doctors recently i was surprised that she asked me into the room while she told him to undress and examined him completely naked very thoroughly while i watched. Shes Indian, in her 50s and obviously see's nothing wrong with a 'developed' young man, that, i am now fully aware of! being fully exposed to his sister.

A small lump by his balls is a kind of cyst and she is sending him for a scan. Mum can take him next time!

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
ScottH
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Date Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012, 07:08: pm

Something like this happened to me when I was a kid. I had to get naked in front of a female doctor and my mom, as well as my aunt and younger female cousin. (Not all at the same time; the doctor was not present at home, but the others were.)

Im wondering, what makes this so embarrassing for you? For me is was the idea that they required me to be naked in front of them, but the idea that I would see any of them naked was laughable. It seemed so unfair, as if they have more rights and were more valuable people than me. The other thing was having my foreskin pulled back in front of them. It was like I could have absolutely no privacy. And the idea that they might find some dirt under my foreskin was mortifying. They never did, but there were always reminders to keep it clean. This all had to do with getting circumcised, and the worst thing was having these women discuss where to cut and how much to take off without even asking my opinion. To be fair, much of this had to do with trying to convince me to get circumcised. They wanted to avoid circumcising me against my will, but that is what happened in the end.

Is there anything happening during your exam that makes it especially embarrassing? Is it embarrassing just to stand there in front of them, or do you get erections or have your foreskin examined, or maybe something else?

Scotth

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Peter
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Date Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 09:41: am

Hi Scotth,

Well,this is a truly embarrassing situation that occurred/happened to me few years ago when i was 15.First of all i would like to add that my mom hasn't seen me naked since age 12 and that my aunt(my mom's sister)has never seen me naked(up until this age)!
The whole thing started since i told my mom that i have an itching sensation around my pubic hair and balls and some little red spots under my balls.Then mom thinking it would be a rash or even more serious called out for her sister(my aunt)to come over to us.Now,my aunt works as a RN in a private clinic(in a dermatology office) and when she arrived to our house my mom greeted her into my bedroom and told me to tell her exactly what the problem is.After i did she said to my mom to take me to dermatologist.My mom asked her right away:"But aren't you working as a nurse in a dermatology office" ? and she said yes after wich mom put the icing on the cake telling her why wouldn't she check me out herself!
I thought,what ?? My aunt said that she would look if i was okay with that.But,could i was not when mom said: "Come on Peter,take off your pants and underwear".I tried to protest but there was no understanding for her.I didn't want for my aunt to see me like that,to examine me there since she never knew what i am naked like(especially as i was entering puberty now,at 15).
Seeing i am not doing as i am told she warned that she will smack me and that i don't have to be emabarrassed in front of Susan as she is part of the family.
Anyways,seeing i could not get away with mom i allowed Susan to tell me what to do.So,my aunt said that to take off my pants and to lie on the bed.I did and after she came near and sat on the edge of the bed and she was asking me now to lift up my T-shirt and after she told me to remove my underwear down to my knees.I slowly pulled my underwear down but my aunt said: "Why don't you take these better off,honey?"and she took them off me.Aunt Susan said not to be embarrassed by having my private parts exposed to her and to try to relax(i was trying but i couldn't).
Mom was there as well standing near the bed watching the whole thing.I could see a smirk in my aunt's eyes as she looked right down at my genitals.I knew she was enjoying looking at them.I was becoming all red as now she knew exactly how developed i was and how much pubic hair i had for my age.She said to my mom that i am not that well developed for my age.
Then she started to look through my pubic hair with her fingers then under my penis,under my balls.When she came to check the skin under my balls she noticed those red spots and asked me to bent my knees up as those red spots continued up until my butt hole.I did and she gently but firmly pushed my knees right to my chest leaving me all exposed down there.Again,she told me that everything is okay and that not get even more embarrassed but i knew she was looking right at exposed bottom hole because she bent her head down to have a closer look and told my mom i am almost hairless there.
I couldn't believe that this is happening to me (with aunt Susan not ever seeing me naked but now
being able to have such a close view of my genitals as well of my anus).
She touched my area there(the perineum)and asked if it was itchy.I told her yes.Mom was still looking on and asked Susan if those little red spots goes into my butt hole as well.Susan said no,pointing out to my mom exactly at the entrance of my butt hole.I was told then i could bring my knees down and get dressed but i wasn't prescribed anything.So,i had to endure this humiliation inspection for nothing.I haven't look aunt Susan in the eyes ever since.
The whole inspection part took no more than 3-4 minutes but it is the most embarrassing experience of my life !

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 07:08: am

For me, it was as if the docter viewed me like a 8 years old child. While she was examining me, she was talking rather to my mother than me. I'm not sure if that was the same for my sister.

My sister saw me naked, but I never seen her naked. But I'm still five years older. The dermatologist examined every part of my skin, and so my foreskin was pulled back too.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 08:16: am

Seba's question is difficult to answer without knowing more about the family. If they are very modest in the home,
and neither of them ever caught even a brief glimpse, then he may have a point about what happened. His complaint here was mainly about the doctor treating him "like an 8
year old" by not including him in the conversation. Seba does have a valid point about the doctor's bad manners.

Nicola's question is puzzling. She is an adult. She was entrusted by her mother to accompany her brother, who is a minor, to the doctor. The doctor evidently assumed that
she was capable of acting like an adult and carrying out the responsibility her mother gave her. Her mother and the doctor consider her an adult. She should act like one, too.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 11:26: am

Sorry, but I don't see any relation between my family's behavior at home and my skin exam. But, well... My mother didn't see me naked after my 10. At home, at the most, we see each others in underwear.

It's also unfair, because I'm in an "advanced stage of puberty" unlike my sister who is at the beginning. She is in 6th grade, I'm in 11th grade...

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Peter
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Date Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 12:23: pm

I totally agree with Seba789 !!!

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 02:08: pm

In view of what Seba said, I also totally agree with him now that he has clarified the issue. Surely we know that some families are very casual at home, so being seen would not be anything new. In his case it was not like that, so of course I agree with him and with Peter. The doctor had thought Seba wouldn't mind if his sister stayed in the room during his examination. It was the wrong assumption.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 02:53: pm

I've got to agree with Seba also. My sisters were in the exam room with me for many physicals, but they seen me at home nude frequently. It was no big deal them seeing me and me seeing them.

If you live in a normally modest house you expect to glimpse others naked for a couple seconds maybe, but not be laid out naked on an exam table for all to look at for an extended time.

But I can tell you for sure 11 year old girls (and younger actually) are very curious about boys and their different 'parts'. It might not be sexual, but there's a lot of innocent natural curiousity.

John

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Daniel
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Date Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2013, 04:22: am

When I was young and later into my teen years, mom often took us all at the same time for the annual school physical and sometimes my aunt came with my cousins so we would all be piled into the rear of the big Ford SW that my aunt drove for the ride to the doctor's office. I was the oldest and in our group never thought it strange that once in the exam room we were all told to remove everything and stand in a rough line by age, which put me first followed by my cousin Patty and then, my sister, Kathy.
I seem to recall that happening just about every year until my sister and cousin got to be about eleven or twelve. Up to then we had always been bathed together one after another on Saturday nights before bed and in the hot summers ran around the yard in the sprinklers in drawers and panties which often got soaked and came off. At times there would be six or eight young kids playing on the back lawn mostly naked while my mom and my aunt as well as an occasional neighbor sat on the patio sipping whatever they sipped in those days, probably iced tea.
Then when I reached twelve and the two older girls became a little developed, they stayed dressed while the boys, my self and my younger brother and cousins, were disrobed, examined, re-dressed and sent outside to the waiting room. Sometimes Kathy had stripped to her panties and bra while my brother and I were being examined but not always. If my cousin Irene, who was older (About five years older), came along for the ride and to help, and who was never examined in our presence, but was in and out of the exam room at will regardless of who was being checked. So the boys were exposed in front of the older girls but, except for the youngest girls, not the reverse.
As far as I can recall my mom was in the room most of the time but never made any big thing about looking at me naked. If anything she avoided actually looking at the boy parts unless the Doctor said something that drew her attention to that area. My Aunt Ronnie always watched closely and was usually at the doctor's side during the entire exams. It was just the way things were done and at the time I didn't think it unusual, after all, my sister had seen me naked for years.
There had often been preliminary exams at home when we were sick or had some rash problem to decide if a visit to the doctor was needed.. Mom usually had her sister, who was a few years younger, come across the backyards to look and offer her opinion and that meant some of my younger cousins would accompany my aunt. If my sister was being examined or my cousin Patty, I might be somewhat present and might get to watch parts of the adventure from an open doorway, but I never had the chance to really look at what they were so concerned about between the girls legs while several times Patty held a flash light so her mom could spread my thighs and move the genitalia out of the way to expose the groin where for years I frequently had a rash that would erupt into small reddish bumps and would itch terribly.
And while I didn't know much about female development or the workings of their bodies, I had realized that both Kathy and Patty's bodies changed and often they were allowed to stay home from school with "cramps." Menstrual cramps were never discussed in my presence and I do not recall putting two and two together for several more years until Kathy and I became more open about the things that affected each other.
On the occasions where a general family physical was required, mostly at the beginning of the school year, usually, I went first and as soon as the doctor was finished checking things out and making notes, I'd put my undershorts on and jeans while the younger kids were being done and sometimes I finished shirt and socks in the reception room. Once, for some reason, right after my exam I was told to pick up my clothes and go out of the exam room before I had a chance to put anything on. I was still naked when I put my bunched up clothes on one of the chairs in the reception area and I began to get dressed in front of the next patients which included both genders.
There were two other moms and probably three or four kids, a couple of whom were close to my own age and it was obvious that they were watching me. At least the receptionist saw me standing there nude trying to put my legs into my tangled shorts without everyone seeing my privates and had me come behind the counter where she tried to help hold my undershorts so the leg holes were straight. Half the problem was that I had started to tear up from embarrassment and being about fifteen then, I didn't want anyone to see that either. I didn't know if she was a nurse, but the idea of her seeing my penis naked while she held the jockey shorts open properly wasn't as embarrassing, especially since she had entered the exam room a few times in the middle of the exams and chatted with my mom, or my aunt, if she was with us, most of the time I was already naked and exposed on the exam table..
For some reason her voice was soothing that afternoon and perhaps she was old enough for me to assume she was a mom herself and possibly had her own boys. At some point later on, I discovered that she was the receptionist working part time and really hadn't any medical training.
A few times when I was older she teased me about that embarrassing adventure. I suppose that by making light of it she felt she was making the memory less humiliating. The last time that happened was just before I joined the military and had to have a checkup before enlisting. Mrs, Whatshername chatted with me at the desk and then when it was my turn escorted me to the exam room where she said to remove all my clothing and she would get a hospital gown for me if I wanted it. That time I had driven myself to the Dr's office alone and so I began to strip as she fussed with the paper that they have on the exam table and then began to fold my slacks and shirt, all the time chatting away about school and going away from home the next month, so soon I was only in skivvies and when I paused she said to drop them as well.
Laughing at my hen I sort of paused, she reminded me that she had seen me naked and exposed several times so I shouldn't be embarrassed at all now. I lowered my drawers and my penis popped up and out with a semi-erection which obviously caught her eyes. Still laughing as she handed me a very thin, almost threadbare cotton gown that wasn't really for gangly teens who were a bit over six foot tall, she said that it looked like thing had grown quite a bit down there.
Finally covered by the gown somewhat she left after saying to lie down and wait for the doctor. She was in and out during the examination, making notes on a clipboard for the doctor and once the exam was finished she returned to help me wipe some lubrication from my anus that the doctor had used during a prostate check.
The funny thing was that while I felt embarrassed disrobing in front of her, I also actually became aroused and had gotten quite excited when I sort of flashed her. I later realized that that had happened most of the time over the years when my aunt or my cousins had been present during the physical exams and I was completely nude.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Wednesday, January 02, 2013, 01:18: pm

I said the doctor made the wrong assumption about the lifestyle of her patient and his family.
She never even asked her patient if it was ok with him.

But Seba's not the only one. We have seen many posts here describing similar situations in which a female receptionist or aide is allowed to stand by and observe, with no other reason to be there at all. Again, the patient never seems to be asked if having this woman in the room is ok with him.

Seba's case is not rare these days. Some examiners do not take the patient's feeings into consideration at all.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Wednesday, January 02, 2013, 01:35: pm

"Some examiners do not take the patient's feeings into consideration at all."

I agree, especially if the patient is a minor with mom or dad in attendance. A lot of time dad or mom won't stand up and state "My childs feelings on this should be heard."

When Seba is an adult and making his own appointments he can put his foot down and tell all in the room This is NOT going to happen.

John

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Eli
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 06:41: am

Assuming this is true, and I have my doubts, Seba should have refused to be examined with his sister and mother there. I would have at that age.

He's 16, not 6. And don't anyone give me the BS about the law requiring the mom to be there. That's not true. My mother was never in the exam room once I was 10.

The doctor would meet with her AFTER the exam

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 07:07: am

It is possible, even likely, that Seba did speak up and ask that his mother and sister leave the room. but is is just as likely that his mother denied his request. Let's see what Seba has to say if he decides to clarify this.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 09:21: am

If the docs and parent agree, I don't think there's any kind of law that states a parent HAS to be in the exam room. I've had exams alone since I was 13 years old. I've been in many personal and school physicals alone since then.

Barbara is right. Seba would have to tell us if he objected, and if his doctor and/or mom insisted others stay in the room with him.

John

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Michael A.
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 08:47: am

Your point about not even being asked is a good one, Barbara.

In the last three or four years I have had several exams by women MDs -- two of them dermatologists -- who when they got to my genitals asked a nurse or in one case a female office clerk to come in the room and observe.

As it turns out I have been into CFNM for years and got erections in all of these exams. When I acted a bit embarrassed the women in each case acted sort of professional and reassuring. But the embarrassment had the effect of prolonging the whole thing and actually made me harder.

Call me what you want, but frankly I like this new trend. What I particularly found thrilling was the look on the young office clerk's face. In effect, she had been told by her boss to come into a private exam and look at a man with a hardon! Her face was a mix of surprise, embarrassment and, dare I say it, enjoyment.

What a world.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Vera
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Date Posted: Friday, January 04, 2013, 08:05: am

Interesting post.

When I was a nurse, I had some patients get and maintain erections during various situations. Not that often, but not that rare either. I can remember two men in particular. I sometimes wondered if they were enjoying the situation in some way. Frankly, I did not care if they did, but I did wonder.

Any female medical person who cannot feel comfortable in (if not enjoy) such situations should probably find another line of work.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Michael A.
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Date Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2013, 11:12: am

Obviously I cannot say if the men you remember were interested in CFNM situations or not. I do not think of it as exhibitionism or even something I should not do, because first it is harmless and second sometimes the women really do seem to like it. But my guess in any case was that either you turned them on or the situation did -- unless they were teenagers in which case all bets are off!

Thanks for your comments though. And I agree with you about if women cannot stand seeing nude guys, erect or not, they should really find another job. There is already a lot of discrimination against males in medicine, or maybe I should say disregard for males in medicine, so who needs more of it.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Dave
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013, 07:26: pm

Always thought if Vera could enjoy the examination why should the person being examined enjoy it also. As long as no laws are broken everyone is professional what is the harm.

I draw the line at someone faking a problem in order to expose themselves to a doctor, but nothing wrong with a "little blue pill" helping to make one stand out more during an already planned examination. Health care professional are on a very tight schedule and if they seek to prolong an examination to enjoy the sights-far me it form me to rain on their parade.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Seba789
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 03:06: pm

I think that my doctor is probably this kind of woman who despises younger men, especially teenagers like me. She is in her thirties.

It was not expected for me to be naked. That was a surprise. At the moment, I didn't say anything. I'm indeed shy, but... actually I don't know why I didn't say anything... Maybe I was too impressed by her.

Perhaps I look also younger than my age.

For my mother, it was not a real big deal to expose "a nice young boy". "There is no matter to be ashamed". For my sister, I don't know...

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 06:54: pm

Seba, it sounds like you need to have a earnest discussion with your mom. It seems like she still views you as a 9 or 10 year old boy, not a young man. You need to let her know (in a nice way) how embarassed you were to be nude in front of her and your younger sister. You could also ask her why it's ok for your sister to examine you nude, but not ok for you to do the same to her.

I have no idea if you will be seeing this doctor again, but she needs to realize you having an audience for such a through exam isn't acceptable.

At worst you have a couple more years and you can put your foot down hard.

John

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 09:47: pm

John, you may be right. The doctor may have considered Seba
as a 9 or 10 year old, which might explain why she ignored
him and talked only to his mother.

Similarly for his sister. Although she was 11, the doctor seemed to treat her like a 3 or 4 year old and let her stay in the room because at that age the child would be indifferent to what was taking place.

Both theories, yours and mine, may seem far-fetched, but
they seem to offer some explanation for the doctor's behavior. Or is she just lacking empathy? We'll never know.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2013, 10:36: pm

Your theory that the doctor viewed them as being much younger is interesting. The only thing I have a problem with that is her making him leave before she examined the girl. If the ages really were a 3 year old girl and 11 year old boy surely one wouldn't make the boy leave for just a 3 year old girls check up.

The fact the doctor was ok with the girl being in the exam room while he was nude but insisting he leave for the girls exam indicates to me the usual double standard with older siblings (IE the girl being 11 and him 16), not two younger siblings (as the doctor was supposed to be viewing them) with innocent nudity occouring with both of them.

John

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013, 01:25: pm

Instead of blaming only the doctor for violating the privacy of her patient, is it possible that the young man's mother is partially at fault? Couldn't she have
sent her daughter out of the examination room so that her son would have some privacy during his check-up?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 06:32: pm

I must add that I am not at all convinced by the theory that Sebea 789 looks so much younger than his real age that the doctor can have believed that he was no more aged than 10 or 12, it is not serious even if he is generally considered as younger as he is and the doctor cannot ignore his age because it is mentioned obviously on a paper or she must have asked it before the examination.
I cannot imagine a serious doctor performing the examination of a boy without knowing his age.

And on the reverse, even if her sister (like it is enough frequent with a girl) seems more aged that she is really, it would not have been a good reason to act like that.

Even in the case where the son and the daughter would have had the same age, I don't think that it would have been fair to let the sister watch the examination of her brother but it is to the mother to take the decision to ask to her to get out of the room

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 06:18: pm

you are right "Barbara"
I think likr you that it is rather the mother of the boy than the doctor who must be blamed for violation of the privacy of her son;

It is up to her to tell to the daughter to get out of the examination room when her son is examined
if she does not tell any thing, it is not the doctor who is responsible because she cannot know if the modesty and privacy is important or not in that family

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 06:45: pm

I agrre with that idea of "john the modestr" even if I have had no sisters.
I presume that he is right when he said : "But I can tell you for sure 11 year old girls (and younger actually) are very curious about boys and their different 'parts'. It might not be sexual, but there's a lot of innocent natural curiousity"

so if it is only natural curiosity, it is not so important and not at all a big issue. Even at home, it can happen to be seen in the nude in the bath room by a member of family and if a sister is very curious, be sure that she will succeed to see her brother

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013, 05:29: pm

When I was younger I heard stories from my friend about spying on older sisters when they were curious, and getting spyed on by younger sisters. This is what I consider the normal curious looking.

If both the kids are in their teens and the sister is hiding in the closet trying to see her brother masturbating, that's a more serious invasion of privacy. I wouldn't consider that an 'innocent curiousity'.

John

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013, 05:07: pm

"john" of course your cpomment is right, the situation that you described withe girl trying to see her brother masturbing in the bath room is not that of a normal and innocent curiosity.
like you said, it ios a serious invasion of privacy.

When I said that the curiosity of a sister towards older brothers was not to blame, I have not said that I agree with that kind of behaviour.
it means only in my opinion that it is normal that a younger sister tries to have a quick look on her older brother when he is on the bath room or to peek sometimes when the door is open but nothing more.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Medical Observer
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Date Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2013, 03:08: pm

This is not a matter of violation of privacy. Many doctors demand, and are legally right to do so, that an underage person be chaperoned during the exam by a parent or older sister, aunt or anyone responsible for the boy. And anyone under 18, including teenagers, are considered as minors, especially if they are at a young age.
The doctor adressing the mother during the exam, rather than the teen boy being examined is because she is responsible for him.
The other question of why a younger sister, or even older one, can be allowed to wach her brother's exam is because this is considered as harmless and acceptable. But not the other way round. The double standard in such cases and other situations is universal, no matter what the culture, so there must be good reasons for it. Even most parents seem to agree with this. Girls are afforded more modesty worldwide.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Ed
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Date Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2013, 05:01: pm

"The other question of why a younger sister, or even older one, can be allowed to watch her brother's exam is because this is considered as harmless and acceptable."

Harmless and acceptable to whom? I'm relatively confident the vast majority of teenage boys today, if asked, would not agree that his sister's presence is acceptable and harmless.

If you're actually, a "medical observer" (whatever that is) and have conducted similar exams without the express permission of the boy, your conduct is both unethical and reprehensible.

Everyone, including minors, have the ethical and legal right to choose who and to what degree someone participates in their healthcare. That includes nurses, assistants, techs, chaperons, observers, and especially sisters!

Most doctors are not legally required nor in any position to demand the presence of a chaperon except in those few states where its a legal requirement.

Unfortunately, minors nor most adults are knowledgeable of their ethical and legal rights as patients.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Medical Observer. (to Ed)
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Date Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2013, 10:38: pm

You obviously haven't read my post because I have given the reasons why. And you are wrong on all counts.
So here are the replies again, in short.

It is considered acceptable by the parents themselves, otherwise it would not happen.

The teenage boy's consent does not count, because he is below the age of consent. It is the parents, or other carers, who are responsible for him.

No, minors do not have the ethical and legal right to choose who and to what degree someone participates in their healthcare, for above reasons.

No it is not "unethical and reprehensable to conduct such exams without the express permission of the boy." Again for the above reasons, because he is still a minor even at teen age.

The fact that some states legally require the presence of a chaperone proves that there are good reasons for it. It is for the safety of both the boy and the doctor doing the exam.

So you obviously don't know anything concerning ethical and legal rights for minors.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Ed
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 05:29: am

While I'm no lawyer, the truth is this is a grey area and very much state specific. What I find appalling is your attitude that the boy's feelings don't matter. Additionally, I'm relatively confident there are few providers who would conduct such a intimate exam in the presence of others (parent or siblings) if the boy objected, especially if he was well into the teen years. While the provider doesn't have to comply with the boys request, they cannot force healthcare on them either.

While I agree that there are good reasons for chaperons generally if their use is based upon the maturity of the minor, I object to the attitude that boys don't care about their gender. You will never see a male provider and male chaperon conduct an exam on a female minor. If you agree with that, why is it OK for the reverse with a boy?

Recommend the following link for a general overview:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/03/4/gr030404.html

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 07:47: am

Very interesting read, Ed. I have to admit, I agree with you completely in this particular instance (the sister being allowed to stay and watch her brothers physical)but, I'll have to admit to having mixed feelings to minors in general calling the shots on their healthcare.

It's an interesting quandry. I don't know if there's one right or wrong answer, and I sure as hell don't want the government or doctors having the last say in the matter.

John

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Ed
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 08:39: am

John, I'm not saying boys should be able to reject needed medical care. I'm stating unequivocally that they should be afforded the same consideration and respect girls are given with respect to the gender of those who administer it. Parents at a minimum should ask if they prefer either a male or female provider well prior to scheduling the exam and honor their preference. That discussion should also frankly include what the exam entails, what appropriate touching is, in the case of boys, the possibility of an erection occurring, and whether they desired either Mom or Dad to remain in the exam room for the duration. With respect to chaperons, if there is an established relationship in place, they are unnecessary IMO. There are only a few states where they are legally mandated. Let's not kid ourselves, chaperons are used primarily for the providers protection; I get that. However, the vast majority of males explicitly do not want a third party in the exam room, regardless of gender. That's especially true of adolescent boys. Providers' should ask permission and should honor the patient's preference to include chaperon gender. Chaperons should never be non-medical support staff. Using a receptionist is analogous to using the janitor or "observer". They should be afforded the opportunity for a private discussion with the provider (absent parent or chaperon) so they may discuss any issues their uncomfortable discussing with Mom/Dad. This wasn't nearly the issue with our daughter because she didn't receive her first pelvic exam until her early twenties. Understandably, her preference was a female provider. Since genital exams of boys seem to be mandatory (explain that) we had this discussion with our son as he entered puberty prior to his first sports physical; he preferred a male provider. We honored our children's preference.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 02:39: pm

"They should be afforded the opportunity for a private discussion with the provider (absent parent or chaperon) so they may discuss any issues their uncomfortable discussing with Mom/Dad."


So you honestly think a 12 or 13 year old girl should be able to speak with a health care provider alone about an abortion? That maybe a 13 year old boy should receive treatment for a STD without a parent knowing about it?

Sorry, but I whole heartedly disagree with this. Especially if I'm financally liable for either situation blowing up in my childerns faces.

John

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Ed
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 03:42: pm

Where did I say 12-13 years old; I agree that's too young. State laws specify minimum ages for either abortion or STD treatment. That said, seems to me if either my son or daughter were in need of such healthcare, we apparently failed to properly educate our children. Nevertheless, the train's already left the station and the number one goal is making sure they receive quality healthcare. Do you disagree?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
John_Modest
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 05:59: pm

"the number one goal is making sure they receive quality healthcare. Do you disagree?"

Absolutely agree. I'd point out if I'm completely unaware of what's going on, I can't make sure of anything.

If you weren't talking about young teenagers, I'd shift back to agreement. A 16 or 17 year old is plenty old enough to interact with a health care provider. But I'd hope I'd be kept informed, especially if it's my insurance being used.

Parents need to be in the loop when it comes to the health and well being of early teenagers. This includes birth control. (I'm just sure Planned Parenthood would disagree with me....Oh well)

John

Last edited by author: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 06:01: pm   Edited 1 time.
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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Ed
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Date Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2013, 06:24: pm

I agree with you John but we both know their are countless young teenagers that don't benefit from the environment our kids were raised in. In the absence of that environment, they need objective health information sooner rather than later and that's one mechanism (maybe the only) for obtaining it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013, 05:15: am

As I am not a lawyer, I don't want to express an opinion about the fact that the presence of a chaperone is really mandatory or not for a minor patient when he is examined.

I presume that it is not so clear and depends on law rules of each state or even of internal rules of medical clinics.

As regards the behaviour of male teenagers,I agree that it would be better if their agreement for the presence of a mother or a sister, younger or older, would be better to respect their feelings about modesty and I presume that the answers would not be always the same because in my opinion, some would chose to have their mother being more comfortable with her presence and would also not care about the presence of their sister, while others would be very mortified if it happened because they would prefer to be alone in the examination room face to the doctor.

But in reality, I doubt that a lot of doctors would ask to the boys what they is their opinion. It is often admitted that the parent who accompanied a boy are the only ones able to decide. It is more simple for a doctor to let the mother decide.

I am sure that many doctors do not care about asking his opinion to a male teenager and sometimes they certainly preferred that a mother would be present because they could ask to her precise questions about the health of her son and have better answers, more precise than if they have to question directly the boys.
it explains why sometimes, the doctor is talking to the mother when she is in the exam room as if the boy was not here, which is unpleasant for the boy but is not unusual.

As regards the differences of treatment between boys and girls, it is the consequence of a long behaviour towards boy's modesty being not a concern ( and also men in a certain way), it has a link with the supposed male values applied at school and at the army which concened only young men (when there was a military service for all young men,the modesty of males was certainly not respected) and many institutions were applying military methods in some circomstances like boarding schools and so on ..)

We can consider that the double standard which is sometimes applied in an examination room with a boy examined in front of his sister while the reverse is more seldom, more over when they were still teenagers, is not fair but it still exist. Mentalities do not change so fast as some of you would want it!

Last comment,sometimes it would be not apprpriate to ask to a male teenager if he wanted to a female doctor aor by a male doctor because there is no real choice, only women doctors are available to perform exams in some clinics according to their greater number. Unfortunately, a male doctor is not available.

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[> Subject: Re: Younger sister in exam room


Author:
Barbara
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Date Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013, 11:42: am

The original poster was 16, while his sister was 11. What if the ages were reversed?

Given the five year age difference, this whole thread may never have been started. It is entirely possible, even likely, that the older girl had been assisting their mother with the younger child or children for several years
at home, doing or helping with various child care duties.

If this was the case, the younger child may have been well accustomed to her being around and there would be no problem with the older sister being present.

But in this case, he was older and she was younger, so
I agree that the younger sister shouldn't be present.
Either the doctor or the parent should have known better.

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