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Date Posted: 21:02:54 06/18/02 Tue
Author: Kelso
Subject: Re: Beta readers (aka fanfic 101)
In reply to: Indri 's message, "Beta readers (aka fanfic 101)" on 20:45:57 06/17/02 Mon

>But how do you find a good one? And is everyone
>expected to have one?
>

I generally use one or more, but not always. Depends on how busy my regulars are, how busy I am, a variety of factors.

A couple of people have suggested writing to authors you admire and asking them for help. I read an essay not too long ago that said that was not a particularly effective method, for a few reasons. The ones I remember: You're putting the person on the spot. Sure, they have the option of saying no, but is it fair to ask someone out of nowhere when they've made no offer? Also, just because the person posts good stories, it doesn't necessarily mean that s/he will make a good beta reader. Maybe the author's grammar sucks and his/her beta reader has to fix it all the time.

Another method, asking on a list, can be problematic, too. I did this once, years ago, and the responses I got...well, they were very mixed. One person was excellent and she is still one of my regular beta readers. Then there was the one who couldn't spell, suggested extremely bizarre changes, complained when I didn't make those changes, and was an all-around pain. Also, if you do ask on a list and someone replies with the sentence "My spelling and grammer are excellent" (or makes any other error), I suggest you politely decline the offer.

You can find lists of beta readers at different fic sites. If you're writing a Spike story, for instance, you could look around on various Spike-centric archives and see if they have any names up.

One last thing: If you DON'T use a beta reader, I suggest you don't advertise that fact to the world. I always cringe when an author writes in the notes, "BTW, I didn't use a beta reader. Sorry for any mistakes." I wonder why they advertise the fact that they didn't get help, instead of just saying nothing.

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[> [> Re: Beta readers (aka fanfic 101) -- Auntie Diluvian, 09:01:04 06/19/02 Wed

This probably won't come out as eloquently as I'd like - I'm not caffeinated yet.

My credentials: I've worked on a big group project (Alternative Season 8, X-Files fandom) both as beta and co-author, and I beta read for a particular friend of mine that I work well with. While I was involved with AS8 I saw many rounds of beta reading from various people on all the stories, including the ones I wrote and the ones I did final beta on.

I suggest that if you post to a list, try a test run with the people who volunteer to find out if they're useful to you. People often have very different beta styles: one person could be very good at plot analysis, another could be great at spelling/grammar nitpicks, others could be good at charaterization adjustment. Sometimes a beta can be good at all three but that's rare from what I've seen. You need to find out which style(s) work for you. I've seen that it's useful to have different betas at different stages - get a plot-happy one during your first round, and when you've gotten that hammered out, have someone else do a nitpick of your final draft.

When I write and have been staring at the same paragraphs for however long that they become familiar, I stop 'seeing' them (which is a primo reason for getting a beta in the first place). Keep in mind that very often if someone betas multiple versions of the same story, they can stop 'seeing' the page just as I do, and will sometimes miss things. So it's frequently a good idea to have a couple of beta readers if you can swing it, because a set of fresh eyes can catch things you didn't see in first round.

Tricky subject - If you find you can't work with someone there's the possibility they'll get offended, but perhaps you can explain to them you've got more beta readers than you can handle and don't want to waste their time/work. It's a crap shoot, though. I highly recommend that anyone who tries should at least be thanked as gracefully as possible. [Duh! Excuse me from pointing out the obvious]

Good luck!

>One last thing: If you DON'T use a beta reader, I
>suggest you don't advertise that fact to the world. I
>always cringe when an author writes in the notes,
>"BTW, I didn't use a beta reader. Sorry for any
>mistakes." I wonder why they advertise the fact that
>they didn't get help, instead of just saying nothing.

I can't agree with this; I usually appreciate it when an author warns me. That way when I run across a glaring error I don't start tearing my hair out & ranting, "What was their beta *thinking*?!"


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[> [> [> Re: Beta readers (aka fanfic 101) -- Kelso, 10:59:15 06/19/02 Wed

>>One last thing: If you DON'T use a beta reader, I
>>suggest you don't advertise that fact to the world. I
>>always cringe when an author writes in the notes,
>>"BTW, I didn't use a beta reader. Sorry for any
>>mistakes." I wonder why they advertise the fact that
>>they didn't get help, instead of just saying nothing.
>
>I can't agree with this; I usually appreciate it when
>an author warns me. That way when I run across a
>glaring error I don't start tearing my hair out &
>ranting, "What was their beta *thinking*?!"


Hmmm. Interesting view. I see it practically the opposite way. A statement like "no beta on this one" usually leaves me thinking, the author didn't bother to get help, is almost "bragging" about it by unnecessarily pointing it out, and seems to think the fact that a beta reader wasn't used somehow grants her some leeway if she screwed up on anything. Anyway, I always assume that if the author doesn't thank a beta reader in the story notes, one wasn't used. Whenever I see an additional statement to that effect, I'm wary of reading the story.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Beta readers (aka fanfic 101) -- Auntie Diluvian, 16:22:50 06/19/02 Wed


>Hmmm. Interesting view. I see it practically the
>opposite way. A statement like "no beta on this one"
>usually leaves me thinking, the author didn't bother
>to get help, is almost "bragging" about it by
>unnecessarily pointing it out, and seems to think the
>fact that a beta reader wasn't used somehow grants her
>some leeway if she screwed up on anything. Anyway, I
>always assume that if the author doesn't thank a beta
>reader in the story notes, one wasn't used. Whenever I
>see an additional statement to that effect, I'm wary
>of reading the story.

Oh, I'm generally wary too, since I presume the fic will be riddled with typos. But I know it can be hard to get someone to beta for you & I see the 'no beta' disclaimer as an apology for posting a potentially flawed fic. Guess I'm coming from a polar opposite viewpoint.


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