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Subject: A phone conversation with a Muslim missionary Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:12:15 11/20/07 Tue A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.” (I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.) The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL suffer forever in hell.” I said, “That’s what some Christians say if I don’t convert to Christianity.” He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.” I said, “That’s what some Christians say about their beliefs.” He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.” I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.” He said, “But it will be too late for you then.” I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what some Christians say.” I don’t think he thought it was funny. I then expected him to say what a Mormon missionary said to me in Montreal. “At the judgment, as you are being cast into hell, I will point my finger at you and say, ‘I told you so. I gave you a chance but you didn’t take it and now it’s too late’.” It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell. I believe that the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell causes more suffering here on earth than any other idea that people believe. That is why it gives me such great pleasure to offer people the urls that contain irrefutable evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God. Just Google up TENTMAKER and use the search engine at the top of the front page. Type in a key word from any argument or Bible verse and ten article will appear refuting the idea that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Thousands of Muslims going to "eternal hell" every day ........... Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:13:10 11/20/07 Tue through no fault of their own because they are taught at an early age to reject Christ as their Saviour, demonstrates the absurdity of the eternal torment theology. The STRONGEST influence in their life is to trust in Muhammad, the Koran, and Allah, and the STRONGEST influence ALWAYS prevails. But since Jesus Christ, in the long run, is really the STRONGEST influence, all Muslims will be saved along with all other fallen creatures. The Bible teaches universal salvation. HERE’S WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN NOW Based on my experience of posting on hundreds of forums, here's what's going to happen now WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION The people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment - these people will keep believing it because they want to. But people who want to believe that the Bible nowhere supports such a concept of God will examine the evidence contained in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html And also here Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation, http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html copy and paste into address bar if necessary and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation. Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages. The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/ and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm show just how much this information is helping people. This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-68), and it gives me great joy to keep learning every day that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69 I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: SO MUCH SUFFERING!! Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:14:11 11/20/07 Tue My testimony contains information that, according to the many entries in my guest book, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, is helping many people. My guest book can be accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/ Also see the testimonies at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm My guest book only holds 150 messages. Then the oldest ones are automatically deleted to make room for the newest ones. SO MUCH SUFFERING is caused by the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell, that it gives me great pleasure to guide people to the evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. We agree with fundamentalist Christians that we should not believe things that go against Biblical teaching. We don’t. I'm 69, and I am acquainted with many people who are, or were in various stages of nervous breakdown over their inability to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel, they are afraid of what God might do to them after they are raised from the dead for not being able to love Him. The information in my testimony has helped many of these people. If any member or surfer on this forum is suffering because they are unable to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God is going to let any creature suffer forever, they can Google up the more than 600 page search engine at the top of the TENTMAKER front page. Just type in a key word or phrase from each argument or scripture passages and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilationist doctrines. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages. Most fundamentalist Christians are not even aware that there are two sides to the argument about what the Bible teaches. I have exhaustively studied both sides myself. This debate always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate. If your readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever, then they should keep believing that. But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like. I am a Concordant Christian. I have read and recorded gleanings into my more than four thousand page personal journal from most of the back issues of UNSEARCHABLE RICHES that has been published back to 1909. Every argument that I have ever heard against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been repeatedly dealt with in these magazines. Largely, but not exclusively, because of the contents in these magazines, I am convinced that the evidence in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation is irrefutable. That is why the argument that we should teach endless suffering in hell just in case it might be true is unacceptable to me. IMHO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe in "eternal suffering" for anyone and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it. Here are several Concordant websites. http://www.concordant.org/ http://www.saviour-of-all.org/ http://gtft.org/ www.gracetruth.com http://www.tentmaker.org/ Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following: All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one. http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html also see: http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html I also would like to leave you with one more link. I am going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html It may begin to change your thinking. The url of my own site is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/ God bless you in your study! From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: The god that eternal tormentors profess to love Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:51:50 12/12/07 Wed The god that eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.” And then the eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.” Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering. Thank God the Bible does not teach such an insane idea! Here is what the God that universal transformationists love and worship with complete abandon will do. He will complete the process of salvation for the first fruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. Then He will complete the process of salvation for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire. Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead to guarantee that any necessary "kolasis aionian" (age-during corrective chastisement) will be 100% effective in changing wrong attitudes. All acts of sin have been forgiven for everyone. Attitudes cannot be forgiven. Attitudes must change. This is what the lake of fire which is the second death will do. It will last no longer than God sees is good for everyone involved. You can Google up good articles on this subject by typing in kolasis aionian For anyone who cannot love an endless-hell god. BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST RESOURSES Copy and paste the following url into the address bar http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html You can Google them up at Christian-Universalism.com ~ Biblical Christian Universalism Also see Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation, http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html http://www.christianuniversalist.org If necessary, copy and paste into address bar. and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation. Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages. The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/ and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm show just how much this information is helping people. This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69 I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: STALEMATE Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:52:56 12/12/07 Wed The debate about the duration of punishment after the great white throne judgment frequently ends with each participant saying, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result of the debate is a stalemate. When that happens I like to say, “If you think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to sustain some of His creatures alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever or be annihilated, then you should keep believing that.” “But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their GREATEST AND DEEPEST NEED, which is A CHANGE IN THEIR STUBBORN WILL so they won’t suffer forever or be annihilated, then I would like you to know that there is a lot of Biblical evidence that because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, all fallen creatures everywhere are going to be saved from everything from which they need to be saved. I have learned by experience (I’m 69) that the people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment, or be annihilated - these people will keep believing it because they want to. But people who want to believe that the Bible nowhere supports such a concept of God will examine the evidence contained in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html And also here Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation, http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html http://www.christianuniversalist.org copy and paste into address bar if necessary and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation. Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages. The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/ and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm show just how much this information is helping people. This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78), and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html [ Post a Reply to This Message ]