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Date Posted: 01:12:14 06/11/03 Wed
Author: Ender
Subject: (I never know what to name my posts, argh)
In reply to: Grizlas 's message, "Determinism and the Matrix (sidenote)" on 12:09:12 06/09/03 Mon

Allright, I didn't read any of the replies to this post, although I probably should, seeing that I recently responded to neonate only to find that not only did you say everything I wanted to say, but you said it better (damn super mario analogies, the horror of it). But I've certainly never claimed to be thin-skulled and I'm willing to make the same mistake twice.

First, don't feel bad about taking the movie seriously. If you start wearing all black and you break your arm trying to run up a wall, then you have something to worry about, but the concepts you speak of and the concepts portrayed in the movie are actually very basic philisophical discussions. Basic because they are certainly questions found in many types of forums (religious, political), and NOT basic because they are easy to answer. In fact, I find these broad types of philosophy far more entertaining then the more recent questions of race and ethics, or soul and mind, for this is a conversation near anyone has an opinion of and it makes me excited to log on everday. So if the matrix makes you serious, it makes me giddy, and that makes me ten times more self-loathing then you should be. But what the hell?

My main concern with the rebooting of the matrix is not so much the logistical points you express, such as age and death, for I'm sure that the brothers could simply take the route of your second idea quite easily and simply say that those who are old in the late century become those who are old in the early century. It's certainly a premise that has had it's validity varified in one form or another. As you stated, they'd offered to erase the memory of the antagonist in the first movie (sorry I forget his name). And also, you stated that agent smith was able to take over the body of SEVERAL independent sources (which raises the question, what happens to agent smith's new body when the source is unplugged from the sytem. wouldn't it die too, but I don't want to go into that hear). The virus behaviour of agent Smith seems to suggest that the mind is open to manipulation. But also, simpler things like neo learning kungf-fu and trinity learning to fly a helicoptor just by downloading it into there heads seem to suggest this as well.

But the part where the movie begins to break down for me is that all this manipulation, up till now, is running parallel with a story of personal identity. These are two things that truly don't mix well. Take for example the man agent smith took over (I think his name was blake, but if it's not I'm going to call him that anyway cause its easier). Who is this man now? Is he simply Blake, "taught" to act like agent smith much like neo is "taught" kung-fu, or is he actually agent smith? Could he unlearn what he's learned? How much interaction with an outside source is allowed before someone is no longer themselves and becomes someone else? Sure, learning karate might not change the way I see someone, but what if that person downloaded a belief in god? If I could teach someone kungfu by downloading it into their head could I not download a belief in god, or a political belief, or a gender issue? Would that person still be the same?

So my point with all these rhetorical questions is that at some point a believe the movie will have to take a definitive stance on personal identity if they intend to have it co-exist with such identity manipulation. And anything that questions the integrety of one's own identity puts the whole movie in jeopardy. So much of the story up till now has been a stuggle for NEO to find himself. Of course, he is not the only one, as Trinity and Morpheus stuggle alongside. So I'm hoping the brothers make a more concrete stance on this issue in the next movie, but with all that has been said and done up till now, it is not an issue easily cleared up.

Damn I can't wait till november.

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