| Subject: Re: DoH Strengths |
Author:
Ari
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Date Posted: 08:45:12 03/18/04 Thu
In reply to:
Aeanagwen
's message, "Re: DoH Strengths" on 07:52:39 03/18/04 Thu
><< And Seishirou can fight Kamui on even ground<<
>
>I'd say that's a debatable--Kamui certainly didn't
>have any problems ripping Seishirou's maboroshi apart
>at the seams the first time; my impression was that it
>was Kotori's presence that distracted and prevented
>him from focusing enough to do so the second time.
He destroyed it easily the first time, yes, but Seishirou wasn't even present for that- Kamui was fighting a spell, not the man himself. Seishirou comments on that in their second fight, saying he strengthened the power of the spell this time, and Kamui discovers he CAN'T he escape- only the bit at the end has to do with Kotori, it's Fuuma that breaks the strengthened maboroshi in the end, because Kamui can't. The fact that he can't break the maboroshi the second time is because he's not strong enough to do it- the manga clearly states as much. I don't know where the debate is.
>I'm sure that Subaru would certainly beat Yuzuriha in
>a fight, but I do want to point out that she has at
>least an advantage in that a) she has far more
>determination and drive to live than Subaru, b) Inuki
>can transform into a shield as well, among god knows
>how many other things, and c) she doesn't have to
>consciously direct Inuki.
True. It would be the same problem Subaru had with Nataku- in truth, he isn't really willing to hurt anyone (save Seishirou, who he's trying to get to think of him as bothersome enough to kill), and Yuzuriha probably would be. I can't see him fighting a child seriously. But in terms of relative power, I don't think there's much doubt that he would win.
>Well, no, clearly not; he's not a spellcaster. If he
>wanted to, however, it's logical that he would be
>capable of sucking the air out of someone's lungs. He
>WOULDN'T, of course, because he's not that kind of
>fighter--but the capability is there, whether or not
>it's utilized.
Uh... actually, we have no evidence that air casters can do that. That's like saying Yuuto, a water caster, could simply rip someone apart from inside because the human body is mostly water. Yet he doesn't, and you can't say it's because 'he's not that king of fighter'- I have no doubt that Yuuto would use any means necessary in a battle. CLAMP's hardly the only people in the world to use elemental casters, and generally speaking, sucking air out of someone's lungs/ripping the water out of them, are things they can NOT do. CLAMP's elemental casters are likely no different.
>Can DoH be trapped within a kekkai? If so, where does
>it say that in the manga? I'm not questioning your
>info; it's just always been my interpretation that the
>Dragons of Heaven can freely enter and exit
>kekkai--hence how they always hoof it to a battle
>scene, presumably to help out, ne?--and it's the
>Dragons of Earth that cannot.
Not the Kekkai all the of the DoH make. Subaru's SPELL kekkai, the kind he uses on Seishirou and Fuuma, within the larger kekkai. Remember? Seishirou uses blood magic to escape, Fuuma breaks Subaru's concentration by calling him 'Subaru-kun'. 'Kekkai' just means 'magical barrier'. I was referring to the ones Subaru creates with onmyoujutsu, not the DoH kekkai. None of the other dragons would have a method to escape them, lacking either a knowledge of onmyoujutsu or Subaru's personal life. He could simply trap them inside and leave it at that.
>Anyway, those points aside, this is all rather beside
>the point.
Ah, but you brought up quite a bit more than the Karen thing in your response, so I addressed more than that as well ;).
>P.S. In a case of fighting against Satsuki (since you
>asked earlier), she can draw wires and cords from
>ANYWHERE in the surroundings--I'm fairly sure that
>Subaru would run out of ofuda before she runs out of
>wires,particularly given that I'm sure her wires can
>do the same thing to ofuda that Nataku's scarves and
>Arashi's sword can.
This is where I think you misunderstand the basic principles of the powers Subaru and Seishirou are using. How would they manage to destroy the entire length of a monumentally large bridge- almost as large as the kekkai itself, so about the maximum amount of material Satsuki would be able to use in a fight- full of of concrete, steel, cables, rebar, etc. if all they had at their disposal were 'little pieces of paper' that just bounced off everything? They wouldn't. Ofuda, you see, are just a focus for the spell itself, which is what does the actual damage. Nor do they necessarily have to use ofuda to cast a spell- they often use mitsu-in as the focus instead, for example, the last spell Subaru and Seishirou use on each other on Rainbow Bridge, which ends up doing a HUGE amount of damage to the surrounding area, is focused through mitsu-in- no ofuda are used at all.
So, yes, the shikigami spells through ofuda would be faily useless against Satsuki. But you speak as if that's all they can DO, which couldn't be further from truth. They wouldn't have to 'run out of ofuda', they would use other spells to blow her wires/cables to pieces. They do this all the time- I'm downright amazed you haven't noticed. I think you might want to go back and read over their battle scenes, or pick up Tokyo Babylon for a much more realistic impression of what onmyoudou is capable of in the CLAMP universe.
>While she might not be able to
>kill Subaru if he blew all her wires to bits, he
>couldn't win the fight, either--because she isn't
>THERE to defeat.
Well, he'd still win, he just wouldn't be able to finish the job. That's Satsuki's one great advantage, I think- she's the only DoE that can enter and leave the DoH's kekkai as she pleases, using a projection of herself. The disadvantage of this, of course, is that if anyone ever figured out where she was and was able to get inside (if, say, Fuuma and Yuuto were elsewhere), she'd be pretty screwed ;).
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