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Date Posted: 13:03:40 05/08/04 Sat
Author: Joe Taylor
Author Host/IP: sacssrv2.sacs.org / 209.36.127.4
Subject: It's okay, you can say it.
In reply to: Robert 's message, "Hmmm...... don't know whether it's wise to tell my reasons here...." on 12:50:30 05/08/04 Sat

Just ignore Shaun - he's just like a troll.

Besides, four more years of Bush might get a pseudo-liberal president in 2008, like Dean or Clark, who'll pull a Clinton on the world, pacify Europe, and start making the world ignore American atrocities again. With Kerry, there's no such chance; he'll have a very good chance to win in 2008 and keep France pro-EU for long enough time for a pullout to be economically impossible, plus he'll quell the Democratic pro-Dean grassroots base.

Bottom line: Bush may not be the best candidate from an anti-American perspective - emphasis on "may."

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> It's not Shaun, he seems to be sufficiently resistant against evidence.... -- Robert, 12:30:20 05/09/04 Sun (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)

AJ however might notice that the current administration has managed to significantly weaken the US position and is very likely to continue this way. And since he's patriotic he may think twice before voting for Bush. It's not always beneficial when people think too much.

France isn't a problem. The continental unity meanwhile is becoming pretty solid, thanks to Bush. But look at Britain: do you think many Brits are fond of being the US poodle? The longer they are, the more eager they'll turn towards the EU. The surveys show a significant difference between US and EU. Britain is somewhat in between, tendency however is towards EU. We're still in need of Bush. Only he is able to transform Brits into Europeans.

I hope you don't mind me being focussed on national interests. What's good for Europe is good for the world. :)


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> About Britain... -- Joe Taylor, 13:17:57 05/09/04 Sun (sacssrv2.sacs.org/209.36.127.4)

But look at Britain: do you think many Brits are fond of being the US poodle?

I don't know, but they're more apathetic, pro-American, and anti-EU than they seem. Besides, Blair still appears to have solid support :-(.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well, this may change - European unity is a long-time project anyway.... -- Robert, 14:02:37 05/09/04 Sun (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)

I guess it will take another 50 years to consolidate the stuff.

BTW, the other SC meanwhile is password protected. Seems you and Larry were right about him. If he somewhat represents the average Americans - well, then they don't deserve better than Bush.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well from my point of view -- Hierophant, 17:58:20 05/09/04 Sun (adsl-65-64-124-64.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net/65.64.124.64)

I'm still pro-Bush all the way as of right now. I don't agree with everything he does, like the whole Mexico Imigration issue...and the gas prices are kind of annoying, but I really don't think Kerry has what it takes. I don't trust him and I don't think he even knows where he really stands. He's TO concentrated on only beating Bush that he's not clearly outlining his plans for the country. I've been following Kerry closely just to check him out and I still have little knowledge of what he plans to do. He'll stand up there and say "I'm going to create thousands of jobs" then fail to clearly demonstrate how. Not to mention he's weak on defense. I don't even have to give examples for that and I want someone strong on defense cause America is at war and will always be at war with terrorists, etc. There will be no peace for this country as long as the world spins. Or until we rid of the extremists around the world........which would require help from everyone else, including europe, which will never happen. Even though we've laid down millions of lives for germany, france, poland, etc........and not to mention our complete support for germany against communist russia.

We assemble some of the largest armies known in the world, go to europe and crush the Nazi regime.....TWICE, losing thousands and thousands of lives......well, ok i'm just gonna say this. I think its assinine bullshit that considering all we've done for the european nations, that no one over there can even try to help us weed out third world terrorists who despise democracy. Its simple enough. Look at how far the U.S. and Britian have come. Imagine if the whole world pitched in? The problem would be solved within months....untill the documents of the oil for food scandal between France, Germany, and Iraq came out.

Oh well......all throughout history European nations have done nothing but pacify and appeal to brutal dictators, only to be gutted like a fish eventually.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well, I don't deny you your opinion..... :) -- Robert, 09:44:03 05/10/04 Mon (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)

though it may not be a fault to somewhat update your historical knowledge and maybe check different views of the stuff.
Until then I don't think it's of use to debate it.

And it's slightly off topic anyway. The only thing I've mentioned is, that according to my opinion the US position was significantly weakened throughout the past two years. You're free to disagree though.:)


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