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Date Posted: 02:05:06 04/28/04 Wed
Author: sundarar - 4 Apr 2004
Subject: Re: Parabrahman, Mukti and Human Thought-Systems
In reply to: Hendrik - 4 Apr 2004 's message, "Parabrahman, Mukti and Human Thought-Systems" on 02:04:32 04/28/04 Wed


Hendrik

Great post! Looks like it is just you and I interested in this topic. You are right, most people do not post, as I was one of them for 3 years. Only recently did I start to post. I e-mailed you under my real name about a year ago on this topic. We had a nice discussion going on the "advaita shuffle". Looks like it continues on! Be true to your experience and also true to thySelf!

I chose the name of Sundarar because I like the beauty and friend aspects of God and this saint was a bit of a heretic. I find this necessary, as Aurobindo is right--'accept the eperiences of avatars and saints as hints, not fetters'. That is exactly right--couldn't have said it better! Aurobindo gives me a headache usually, I have to take in small doses at a time.

I have been viewed a heretic in SRF, though the people that label me thus admittedly have no inner experience. I have always thought of you the great equalizer on this board, though the doubter is the most miserable of mortals, oh Arjuna. Hendrik, carry on!

Ramdas did say he felt there was another stage past Buddha and Shankara, maybe "criticising" was too strong of a word. I will try and find it in his books somewhere.

Great info by Aurobindo on the possible detours...If one were to take Buddhism on the surface I'd say he would be in danger of getting stuck at the Void spot that precedes para-brahman. As I understand it, this spot is sasmita savikalpa samadhi according to yoga sutra classification. This is my hot topic of late, but specifiacally how it relates to kriya and the kutatsta and stages in the kutasta. A kriyaban has to understand these things in the light of kriya. Just to understand it the way Aurobindo warns about it I think is not enough...I desperately want satsang on the intricacies of this by a kriyaban. No doubt when I REALLY want it bad enough I will get it. See, I have been told by a SRF minister to concern myself with the white star in kutasta only. (Thus to bypass the lower two savikalpa samadhis?) Thats all he will say. So me and that star have 'business'
That is my ishta right now, the personal Iswara in the star if I am honest. But the goal is still parabrahman.

The immediate goal is to penetrate the star by following the aum to its bindu or source in the star. The gunas start moving at that point in the star and that makes the word or holy vibration flowing out of that point. The Nada Bindu Upanisad says it is the OM nada (usually thought of as sound but in my experience actually it is also light and love) that pacifies the chittwa and B. Sanyal is said to agree. Anyways it is in there one feels the bliss we all seek. This is sananda savikalpa. But then one has to pass that stage and get sasmita savikalpa. Nada Bindu Upanisad says you follow the sound until you get 'akashic conception', which is sasmita, I think. Then you go on to Brahman. It is said there is a natural contraction of consciousness in this sasmita spot and many do not want to pass by the sananda savikalpa samadhi. Muni or M commented to me on this and I would like to know more! Further, Buddha is said to talk of the fear that may strike at the cusp of Brahman, and this is when he said to Mara, "Oh Lord of my ego, you are pure illusion---you will not build my house again." As to whether the 4 fold mind is in tow here (chittwa, ahankar,manas and buddhi)I'm not clear. But it seems this statement must be made by the buddhi, as Tota puri told Ramakrishna, "use your viveka to slice down Kali and enter the non-dual Brahman state". He pushed a piece of glass on Ramakrishna's forehead as he said this. Again, B. Sanyal says one must pass the sound bindu, and then the thoughtless point. I'n not sure what the latter entails and I want hints. Anyone got any?

Christianity and Vaisnavism proponents are surely bent on Brahma-loka, which seems the domain of sananda savikalpa samadhi. Sadhu ascetics often get hooked on siddhis and get merged in nature. I understand this can happen if one freezes at savitarka and nirvitarka savikalpa samadhis. As I said, if you just aim at the star you are pretty safe to pass those by. I have also heard of hatha yogis getting themselves fixed in jada samadhi which is unconscious deep sleep. Sivananda condemns this, as it does not fry the samskaras. Evidently Hamid Bey, a minister for SRF in the 30's, used to pose as an egyptian master and get himself buried for hours in this jada state in a coffin. He drove around the country in a car with a trailer behind it with this coffin on top. Yogananda scolded him to stop it. Later, Bey left or was given 'da boot'.

As for the other two detours, I have never heard of them before--the merged in Sat, and merged merged in Ananda. Please do tell where I can read more! Does anyone in any lineage know of these? I have been around a few saints, and one of them had this weird stillness about him. It was surreal. At first I thought it was evidence of his potential liberation state, but lately I wondered why I did not feel ananda around him. Of course who can tell a liberated master.

I think it is very helpful to have thought on these matters so not to make a false step later. Still, the last shift is by God's grace. Hopefully I will have it! Baktananda told me once "God wants you very badly, @%&%@" It will happen when it will happen. But one cannot relax too soon and get passive and say "God knows where I am, so if he wants me he can come get me" or such nonsense. The last shift is by God's grace but til then we have to make efforts. I am not content to aim for some 'heaven' where I will have plenty of banquets with Yogananda with other devotees. Most devotees that think that the guru can do it for them and it's a"long-haul" have emotional issues to deal with from childhood and have poor self-esteem. 3things to say: I can do it, I must do it and I will do it! For this the 3rd chakra has to be empowered or the Arjuna aspect awakened and the obstacles thoroughly understood better than your enemies in a war. What we may be doing here is sharing intelligence.

I think it ESSENTIAL to be clear on your goal, I'm glad you agree on this. For instance, after 10 years of kriya, on the day I truly wanted to see the kutasta clearly, it happened. I thought I wanted it before that, but I was able to see I did NOT. This was an amazing realization. Satyananda of SRF told me one day "it's honest people that get God realization" and on another day "when you really want God he will come". Wonderful I thought, but his name is Satyananda so of course he will speak thus. But no, now I see how true he was.

Fewpeople are honest without, for they are not honest within. Coming to honesty and achieving fearlessness is the first prepatory step before real yoga practice.

The Upanishads say 'as one's desire/intention is, so one's will, as ones will, so ones act, as one's act so ones experience.' It is a famous quote. When one starts to get into savikalpa samadhis it is extra important to be clear on the goal, because the temptations will intensify, or at least they can. It is my honest observation that most 'yogis' have no interest in liberation. They will profess they do, but they don't. We could agree on this as you have made this observation in the past. I despise hypocrits, most specifically religious ones, above all else. This specifically relates to myself.

Incidentally, I am of SRF but highly influenced by Roy Davis on this main idea that yoga equals nirvikalpa samadhi. Nothing else. And why aspire to anything but the highest? ActuallyYogananda drilled this into his head,and anyone else who would listen. Furthermore, no avatar can do it for us. Have you ever read his materials? I think you would like them.

Amazing insight that these saints expressed their realization true to their personalities and goals BEFORE the illumination. So true! Mitrananda has said 'Daya Ma is all about love of God, Anandamoy is about kriya, Baktananda is practice of the presence, Mirilini Ma is guru attunement, what are YOU about?' Maybe it isn't easy to really know one's own prakriti nature but it remains after realization, a unique body-mind viewpoint.This is grand actually. 'Allah loves infinite variety'.

all the best

Sundarar

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