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| Subject: Independence | |
Author: Charles McGregor | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 16:54:56 10/30/04 Sat In reply to: Ian (Australia) 's message, "next we would need to know exactly what they all mean by "independence"" on 16:36:20 10/30/04 Sat The term independence is certainly more clearly understood here than it seems to be at the arse end of the planet. You assume Scots feel 'dependent' on England when the wealth generation deficit between the two is massively in Scotland's favour. It is England which is more the 'dependent' partner. True there are various types of independence, Monarchy/republic, in the EU or out of it, and Unionists try to use this to confuse things, but what would make all of those still independence, is whether the Scottish people decide. If Scots decide what independence means rather than Westminster, then they ARE independent, regardless of what form they decide on ultimately. End of story. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: you seem to have a better grasp of vulgarity too | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:02:36 10/30/04 Sat [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Mori Poll | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:13:31 10/31/04 Sun While searching on the Internet, I found a Mori poll from 2000 which showed that only 23% of Scots supported independence. There seems to be quite a spread in opinions about this. I think devolution may have made it decline. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Mori Poll | |
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Author: Charles McGregor [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:54:22 10/31/04 Sun I checked Mori's on-line archives for Scottish polls in 2000, they covered everything from fox-hunting to section 28 to the NHS and for various clients, but none on Scottish independence are listed. That figure of 23% is even less than that usually quoted for those voting Labour. The polls I quoted are genuine and listed on Dr Iain Old's excellent Alba site for all things to do with Scottish politics. I'm not saying there have been NO independence polls in recent years, but I am unaware of any and they are not listed on Dr Old's site, which is even used as a reference source by Scottish Labour. There have been regular polls on the Scottish Parliuament which have shown the desire for more power for it rise to over 70% of those polled. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: That's a bit rich coming from a sunburt Aussie nt | |
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Author: Put another shrimp on the barbie you bastard [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:23:25 10/31/04 Sun a [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Whoever you are, I am humbled by your intellect... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:18:43 10/31/04 Sun [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Mori 2003 Poll | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:34:53 10/31/04 Sun I found a 2003 Mori poll which found support for independence in Scotland at 38% and support for existing devolution at 49%. That only adds up to 87%, the remaining 13% either don't know or won't say. I don't know where I saw that 2000 Mori poll, perhaps I read it wrongly. But here is the link for the above 2003 poll: http://www.mori.com/polls/2003/scottishelection.shtml I would say that this is fairly recent enough. It shows that support for full independence has stayed around the same level for quite a few years. It was around 35% in 1998. These polls show that a true federation would be a good move. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Australia is well known round the world as a haven of "culture". Like yoghurt nt | |
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Author: anon [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 10:54:39 11/02/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Oo! Handbags! | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:01:20 10/31/04 Sun Good lord... "the arse end of the planet"? Could this fellow mean, by some remote chance, merrie olde England? If so, he is jolly rude. The rudest thing I've ever said about Scotland is, "Crikey, the weather's a bit rubbish up here, what? Round of beer, anyone?" [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Wealth Generation Deficit | |
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Author: Paddy (Scotland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 18:22:01 10/31/04 Sun What do you mean the wealth generation deficit is massively in Scotland's favour please? It is a fact that the U.K.'s productivity is 18th on the OECD list and Scotland's productivity is considerably lower than the U.K. average. Also per head the Barnett formula gives Scotland more "government" cash per head than poor communities in the North of England such as Newcastle. It does appear that if independence were to come about tommorrow, Scotland would be a hell of a lot worse-off (from a purely economic point of view). Is what you meant to say that England is more "dependent" because it subsidises Scotland to such a large extent? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Scotland has paid far more to England than it gets in return. In HUMAN LIVES nt | |
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Author: Scots not Cannon Fodder [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 18:46:53 10/31/04 Sun [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Let's not get into those pathetic fights in the British Isles | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:24:55 10/31/04 Sun This is starting to happen here. This is what I hate about the British Isles - their petty hatreds for each other. Everyone is counting the supposed injustices from one to another. The whole things is so petty and stupid. I am now so glad I don't live in that pathetic country. Why can't you all just learn to get along and respect each other? Why can't Scots and English be good friends and stop trying to blame each other for all their ills, mainly caused by stupid politicians. I don't believe that Scottish independence will happen, but I do believe that the UK will end up as a true federation, then all the parts will be equal. For God's sake - learn to like each other - this is what our federation is all about. The Battle of the Boyne was almost four hundred years ago, the Battle of Culoden was almost three hundred years ago - leave them in the past. You can't go blaming today's people for things that happened a long time ago. Remember, united we stand and divided we fall - that includes the Commonwealth! Look to the future and forgive and forget. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: the answer | |
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Author: here's why [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 10:53:12 11/02/04 Tue "Why can't you all just learn to get along and respect each other?" Because 5/6 of the countries in the British Isles are still colonies of one. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Utter Garbage | |
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Author: Paddy (Scotland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:18:57 11/02/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: not too bright are you | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:49:46 11/02/04 Tue You calling Wales a colony? A colony of England? I take serious offence to that. We can pretty much leave the union whenever we want, all we have to do is make lots of noise and call for a refferendum on independance. How does that make us a colony? Do you even know what a colony is? A colony is a territory being populated by an outside nation. Sure Wales recieves a fair bit of emmigration from Northeen England and Scotland, but if immigration makes a colony, then South Hampton is a Pakistani colony. I'm gueesing your a Scot. I think someday you should take a look at your countries history. You are just a responsible for this great union as England is and you have doen much to maintain it. Thousands of Scots have died for this great country (the United Kingdom that is) and calling for its end is spitting on there graves. And dont try and say the Scots have done all the fighting. I bet more Englishmen have died for this land than people from any other of its nations (only fair seeing they have the largest population). I am proud of every British death in the name of this countries security and glory. Everylast Welshmen, Englishmen, Scotsman and Irishman. You are not a patriot or a nationalist. Your nothing but another pathetic seperatist traitor. A true nationalist born in this land (a British Nationalist) would shudder at the thought of any independant republics on this island. And Shudder I do. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Colonies don't have representation in the national parliament | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:59:46 11/02/04 Tue Bermuda is a colony - it does not have MP's at Westminster. Wales and Scotland are not colonies - they have MP's at Westminster - they are part of the main decision-making process. That is not colonialism. Whoever says it is does not know what he is talking about. This is part of the pathetic hatreds I was discussing earlier. They are based on ignorance and can be wiped out by education and understanding - something separatists are not interested in. That goes for Quebec and Alberta too! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Alberta? | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:06:59 11/02/04 Tue Why on earth are there separatists in Alberta - because they have an enormous budget surplus? This is the last thing I would expect from a land-locked province. You could build a wall along the Rockies too! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hm... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:09:52 11/02/04 Tue I don't know... I understand that the Monster Raving Loony Party at the last election advocated full independence for Leicestershire. Or was it Rutlandshire? Given that many 1970s Monster Raving Loony Party policies have become actual government policy since the 1990s (I cite as the most important example the creation of the EEC Butter Mountain), then perhaps independence for land-locked regions might be on the agenda after all. Free Staffordshire from British Imperialism! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Screaming Lord Blair | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:22:26 11/02/04 Tue lol, you're right. The late Screaming Lord Such couldn't compete with Tony Blair on talking nonsense - the difference being that no-one took the Monster Raving Loony Party seriously! Roll-on the Atlantic Tunnel... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Goldfish | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:38:11 11/02/04 Tue Ah well, you see Tony Banks wants to ban pet goldfish, as they represent the ultimate in human barbarity towards animals. In future, pet goldfish will only be able to be purchased by over-18s with the appropriate licence issued by the Government. All prospective goldfish owners must have a proven track record of handling aquatic species, and must be of sound character, and be a registered Labour voter. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: MRLP | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:26:37 11/02/04 Tue Yep. Also, free corsets for the under-fives, the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, and the extension of slavery to anyone who hasn't got a pet goldfish. Not to mention the declaration of Total War against Latvia. Good lord, you're right: much of this MRLP Manifesto sounds positively sane compared to New Labour! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Alberta separatism | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:49:56 11/02/04 Tue There is a growing separatist movement in Alberta. They are fielding candidates in the upcoming Alberta provincial election. They feel left out of the decision-making process in Ottawa because eastern Canada has a far higher population so therefore it has more representation in Ottawa. Albertans feel that Ontario and Quebec control the country. The east tends to vote Liberal and the west tends to vote Conservative. Albertans have been in opposition far more than in government in the Canadian parliament. This is exactly the same as the Scottish nationalists - they feel left out because another region has a bigger population, therefore it has more MP's, so they feel dominated by policies they did not vote for. Albertan separatists also say that the robust Albertan economy is strong enough to support an independent country of Alberta. The answer is for Albertans to vote Liberal and then they will be in government. However, that would solve nothing because they would not get the policies that they want. I think I should get in touch with the Alberta Separation Party because they could be potential FC supporters. After all, we are proposing abolishing the Canadian federal government, and they would love that! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: alberta vs scotland | |
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Author: anon [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:18:20 11/03/04 Wed "This is exactly the same as the Scottish nationalists - they feel left out because another region has a bigger population" Scotland is a country. Alberta has never been. Population is only part of the problem. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: True federation would make it a partnership of equals | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:21:22 11/03/04 Wed [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The national parliment | |
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Author: Empee [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:21:26 11/03/04 Wed "Colonies don't have representation in the national parliament" You're right. If it is the parliament of the whole UK, then it is a State parliament, not a national one, since the UK contains several nations, not one. Even if they do send people to Westminster, that doesn't preclude them being colonies. Overseas departments of France send representatives to Paris. Doesn't stop them being colonies. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Landlocked regions | |
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Author: landlubber [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:23:00 11/03/04 Wed "perhaps independence for land-locked regions might be on the agenda after all." I'm neutral on Alberta independence, but plenty of land locked countries exist and do well. Europe has many e.g. Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, the Czech Republic etc. None of these countries are doing too badly. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Don't be silly Jim | |
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Author: Paddy (Scotland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 08:58:28 11/01/04 Mon I am asking a perfectly valid question above to Charles McGreggor. The response from "Scots not Cannon Fodder" is rubbish I agree. We all wish that things were as you hope they were but even in Canada there are wide differences between East and West, French and English communities. If people wish to raise disagreeable issues I am willing to discuss them in an agreeable fashion and explain why I feel that they are wrong rather than ignoring the issue. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |