Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
| [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [6], 7, 8, 9, 10 ] |
| Subject: Comments left by new applicants for membership | |
Author: Jim (Canada) | [ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
] Date Posted: 16:21:23 11/24/04 Wed In reply to: Ian (Australia) 's message, "Welcome, Steph" on 13:23:20 11/24/04 Wed Here are the comments left with the applications for membership so far this year: Flag idea: A sphere made up of the flags of the english speeking nations supper imposed on the cross of St. George A good National Anthem is needed, not dull, but something upbeat like Land of Hope and Glory My own idea, before learning of the FCS was what I call the Commonwealth Confederation (CC), a somewhat looser voluntary intra-national democratic union. The aim is to maintain prime power and democracy at the nation-state whilst pro-actively developing shared cooperative policies and standards. Within the CC, the Realms would effectively form an enlarged devolved United Kingdom, but the confederate mechanism means that republics and non-Windsorian monarchies (Malaysia, Brunei etc) can interface politically, without sacrificing their chosen fount of sovereignty. Membership would be dependent on signing up to a Commonwealth Convention that would outline appropriate behaviour for members towards each other and their populi. The confederate system would aim to be rather Swiss, so that the intra-national institutions are slim and strictly limited in power. For example, the Commonwealth Convention would have a court to ensure that the CC's citizens' rights were protected accordingly, but it would not operate outside this jurisdiction. Whatever the final aim, I would heartily agree that the place to start is with the Realms. A dual Brit/New Zealand friend of mine has a desire to become PM of both states and join them into the UK of GB, NI and NZ, which I think is a nice way to start! Inconceivable as some might think it now, I believe that if it was possible to sell the EU to the British, it must be possible to sell Crown Union to the other realms. My belief is that we simply are not trying hard enough to do so. Good luck with your efforts! I think is this was in the relms of possibility, Ireland(a former colony) as an english speaking country and GB's neighbour would be a willing ally or possible member Reading through the website I was quite supportive of the FCS until I read that you would support a republican style head of state over a Monarch. The Monarchy is the tie that binds the "CANZUK" nations, without it there would be no cultural foundation on which to build, or re-build a federated commonwealth. I'd support you, but not if it meant supporting the removal of the Monarch in favour of Republicanism. Is your programme officially supported by any political party in the United Kingdom, or Canada, or Australia or New Zealand? Canada and Uk and Australia, New Zealend, and Turks and Caicos should ban together and take over the Americans Dear Federal Commonwealth Society, I'm writing to congratulate you on an excellent site, which I only just stumbled across this evening, when I read a comment a supporter of yours left in the guestbook of a website I administer (the Irish Unionist Alliance) I've been thinking along these lines for years and years, literally since the age of 15 or so, and I know many others in Ireland, north and south, have been too. It's great to read your site, especially the bits where you start to actually flesh out how the federation might come to fit together, and the political forms it might take. The organisation I'm involved with in Ireland, the Irish Unionist Alliance, is basically a small group of people aiming at bringing the Irish Republic back into the Commonwealth, and, one day, into a federal relationship again with the UK. Our site is at http://www.irishunionism.org - I mention this because as you can see in our policy section we do state support for the idea that the UK & Ireland should re-orient away from the EU and towards the Commonwealth, and the NorAtlantic FTA concept. Our multimedia section has the anthems of many Commonwealth members, and the general tone of the site is very pro-CW. At the age of 15 I remember writing a pamphlet, entitled "Eire Nua (New Ireland)" which advocated almost precisely the sort of thing you're pushing for - a Federal Commonwealth. I think we're in the latter part of the age of geographic regionalism right now, the next era is that of the global village. In a global village, where travel and transport costs are greatly decreased, and any Londonder can read the Sydney Morning Herald, and any Aucklander can check out the Cape Town Mail Guardian in an instant - in this coming era the idea of Federal Commonwealth will seem to make more and more sense. Your comment about the tides of history being difficult to judge is particularly apt. "Federal Commonwealth" strikes me as one of those ideas that grow and grow, quietly at first, in the background and on the internet, before bursting out at the appropriate moment to grab the imagination of the people at large. Canadian Confederation and Australian Federation were similar ideas, slow to catch on at first, and then taking fire! Now, not to detract from my general sense of great enthusiasm at having discovered your organisation, I do have a few points of constructive queries / criticism which I'd like you to consider: (i) The "rich white countries only" criticism is your greatest weakness - this criticism is definitely going to be leveled at you, regardless of the fact that each of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK are now very multi-racial, multi-cultural societies. Why not invite South Africa, and perhaps later other African countries, in, provided they meet strict democratic criteria for membership? The first thing Nelson Mandela did as President was to rejoin the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth has meaning in South, Central & Eastern Africa in a way which it has in few other regions of the world - it joins people together, no matter how heinous the local despot may be, there's always the BBC World Service for accurate news, and English has become a lingua franca for the entire region, in much the same way as the speaking of Swahili brings together diverse East African societies. When I grew up I used to read my dad's old geography books, written in the mid-1950s, they were full of the diversity and working-togetherness of the Commonwealth and all it's peoples. People were full of dreams for these countries before independence. The death and destruction and dictatorship of the past 40 years leads us to forget how optimistic we once were for their future. A Federal Commonwealth that would not just be a talking-shop, but a proper federation with a common armed forces - on the lines it used to be envisaged that the old Empire would evolve - would be able to ensure that democracy in Africa was protected, and development encouraged. Countries like South Africa, and later Kenya, Tanzania, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe (post-Mugabe), Zambia, Nyasaland/Malawi - and in west Africa, the Gold Coast/Ghana and Sierra Leone (which is practically a dependency anyways right now) could all be considered. The process the EU has used to integrate backward Eastern European countries could be adopted - i.e. new candidates for the federation would have to satisfy definite criteria, particularly on democracy and human rights issues. They would also have to be committed to the whole concept of Federation, as something much more than the toothless talking-shop model of the present-day commonwealth. ii) I think your basic economic model can withstand the addition of poorer countries with historic links to the Commonwealth. African GDP per capita is much lower, for sure, but if we're talking about a true federation here, the rich countries can help the poor for a period - everyone benefits in the end from this. Something akin to the way the EU has raised up countries like Ireland, Portugal and Greece is needed - the EU accomplished this in a relatively short period too. Sustained structural aid on these lines is probably the only thing that can save many African economies, and it would serve to gel them into the new federation. Of course, there's no need to ensure that the average Tanzanian earns the same as the average Canadian - but if the Federation can ensure a safe, democratic environment of self-government in these countries, along with a flow of structural aid and development funding, then South/Central Africa would prove to be an increasingly prosperous part of the Federal Commonwealth, and a model of racial co-operation. What about Cape Town as Federal Capital? ;-) iii) Basically, I think the whole idea of Federal Commonwealth is best sold as a reflection of the multicultural societies that exist in it's constituent members. I mean, the vast majority of immigrants to each of the CANZUK countries, come from other Commonwealth members. They are naturally going to be inclined to support an idea that brings their past and present countries together. This is why I think including a fair mix of rich and poor, black and white countries is important. I doubt many African countries would support the idea at first incidentally, I feel they would be suspicious of a "return to colonialism". The model may need to be up and running between CANZUK for a few years before South Africa and her regional satellites would be tempted in. (Sierra Leone is a de facto UK dependency right now, and could be factored in from the start as a special exception). *** But, regardless of whether they want to join at first, the mere fact of inviting them in, and encompassing a racially diverse group of countries in your proposal would totally immunize you against the Rich White Country criticism, which I see as the biggest weakness in your proposal. It would turn the whole perception of your idea inside-out. *** Most citizens of the Canzuk countries, white or black, are pretty liberal folk these days, and aren't going to want anything that smacks of Old Empire. By encompassing Africa, you are totally identifying yourselves with the future and not the past - it would give the whole idea enormous sex appeal and you would find support for it far outside the dwindling constituency of empire nostalgics. You'd be supported both by the Colonel Blimp's, and by the guys with the fading "Free Mandela" posters on the bedroom wall! You'd also be acting in the highest traditions of the old Empire - it used to be envisaged that the Empire would evolve into a vast multi-racial federation of peoples linked together. Instead Africans got a toothless 'talking shop commonwealth', a worthless on-paper independence, and one dictator after another. iv) The only other real point where I differ from you is that you seem to be suggesting a fairly unitary model of government for the federation. I've spent the last year living out here in Canada and, while Canadians are very attached to Commonwealth and to the British link - especially as a counterbalance to the Colossus to our South! - they're also very proud of the journey Canada has taken under self-government and Confederation. To my mind, Canadians would be up for a strong federation, with many strong unitary elements, they would also be very opposed to surrendering their self-government. Until we really do have a global village, we've got to accept that the separate interests of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and so on are not always going to coincide. We need a federal governmental mechanism that ensures that when our interests do coincide, we can take that ball and run with it. Everyone would benefit from Canzuk free trade for example. Where our interests don't coincide, our federal governmental mechanism has got to have the flexibility to let it's members pursue their own interests. As the tide of history sweeps us towards a global village, our interests will increasingly coincide more and more, hence federation would deepen over time. But, for now at least, I would strike a balance which gave a greater emphasis to the self-government and self-determination of the constituent parts of federation, and lesser emphasis on the powers of a central Federal Parliament. Though a central Federal Parliament should definitely be created, as it would bind the people together, I would suggest sovereignty remain, at least for now, with the national parliaments in Ottawa, London, Cape Town, Canberra etc. - these are the historic parliaments which have the most legitimacy in the eyes of citizens. We want to avoid the EU mistake of pushing everyone too fast too soon into a giant federal structure that looks great on paper, but grows unloved and bureaucratic in practise. Anyways, by the way I've typed so much, I guess you can tell I'm interested and would like to sign up for any news or information you have, and to get involved as best I can. Looking forward to hearing from you, David Christopher ( B.A (Hons., Dubl.) - History & Politics, 1999, Trinity College Dublin) Create viceregal posts for members of the Royal family. Just as Edward I. made the heir to the English throne Prince of Wales to ensure the connection between Wales and England, why not make the second in line Prince of New South Wales or British Columbia to secure that link? I think that young William would like that... Perhaps we could encourage the US to join and shove the capital in Philadelphia. It was, after all, the lessons learned by Britain from Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia which led Lord Durham to propose the 'federal solution' in Canada and, later, in Australia, an extension of which you are proposing for the Realms as a whole. The US, of course, would not be interested! Secondly, an updated and more 'P.C.' version of the old British Empire flag might be more powerful than a new ensign. See: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-colon.html#emp. You'd probably have to get rid of the Star of India, though... I think this idea sounds great. I am British and I hate the idea of being called European. I would sooner this country join with the countries that we have had ties with for centuries and we have always been friends. It's an interesting idea, and I've toyed with it while thinking of Canada's future in a world where geopolitical power is split between the US and the EU. It has *some* potential; I think the greatest hurdle would be convincing people that you're not here to take the constitution back to London, so to speak. Also: in regards to this survey, I think I can safely say that should Quebec separate from Canada, the flag would certainly not undergo any changes. The Red Ensign (and any representation of the Union Jack on a federal Canadian flag) is undoubtedly a relic of the past at this point in time, even in English Canada. In my opinion, the goal should not be to remove the existing federal/national governments of Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Northern Ireland but to preserve them and enhance their power by acting collectively on foreign policy and defence. I do not support a new federal structure with an overseas parliament and executive body with power over a whole host of issues. This is not a realistic proposition even though I support the larger idea of a new international geopolitical entity. I'd love to see further variations on the Lion Flag. Federate or Perish! I find the idea very good, I would surely vote(if I had the age) for such a referendum, but I haven’t heard much of this idea of an union of the Commonwealth. And times are going pretty well in Canada so the thought might not be very good right now, I mean, yes, we are loyal to Britain, but we are dependent of the U.S. economically and I don’t know if we would accept changing to go and start exchanging goods with Britain or Austrailia. They are much further away. Anyways you guys are doing a good job, except that I would like to point out that your front page, the one with FCS in black, well, its not too "inviting", try to make it look better. Anyways, it's just a suggestion. Long live the American Empire. Our time is now. I think this website is fantastic guys! This is exactly what CANZUK needs. The British people mainly detest the idea of being ruled by Brussles and the idea of a new unbiased Federation that favoured no particular country. What now needs to be done is to broaden membership and support for an idea within the nations relevent. If popular support can be harvested on this issue, National goverments will take note. The idea of a Federation sits well with me and I would feel far more comfortable with CANZUK than any Union with arrogant Frenchmen and other European nations. I wholly support this movement and look forward to joining and contributing in the future. From what I have seen much talking has been done on this matter, what we now need is action and publicity! Incidentaly the important selling point to all nations involved is that while this Federation would have it's roots in the British Empire and Commonwealth this movement should not be a movement for a neo British Empire. I like the ideas presented in principle, however I believe more work is essential before moving forward too quickly. I am concerned about maintaining the identities of the "Regions" and feel torn about the potential breakdown of Nation States as we currently know them. On the other hand for Canada to continue to exist in the manner that I desire, a Commonwealth concept is essential to avoid being sucked further into the American vortex. The development of a flag or flags deserves careful consideration to balance the needs of individualism and collectivism while speaking to a common heritage. I am looking forward to discussing options and ideas. I think a common curency should be adopted. As well as a common uniform and common weapons for military personel. Think about it. Kingdom would not suffice for such a large power. Japan is an Empire, and a fully democratic and prosperous one at that. The FC would actually be around the same size in population. Why not convert the monarch's title from King/Queen to Emperor/Empress? And do away with all other titles except a few Princes and Princesses. While I'm at it, let the Irish in. They're just turning Euroskeptic now, and it's the perfect time. They're actually far more British than the Canadians. While I tend to agree with the argument of a federal government, I don't see how it would fit in with a supreme executive and constiutional monarchy. Federalism by definition, is a form of government with clear boundaries between national and regional government. If there was a supreme parliament, federalism in this sense wouldn't be able to exist. We would have to create some sort of neo-federalism. While I am in total support of Commonwealth countries working together, I am concerned with the very pro-British (for lack of a better term, no offence intented) attitude put forward by your organization. I am a very proud Nova Scotian first and foremost, but a proud Canadian secondly. I have no connection to Mother England, my family has lived here for over 16 generations. I wish Britions no ill-will, but I am not British. As such, I would not support any Federation that just dressed-up the old Empire in new clothes. I would however support a union of sovereign nations, whom have culture, history and friendship to unite them. As such, with all due respect to HRH, any federation should have a president, not a King, nor should it have London as it's capital. I've suggested Liverpool. (And of course, I mean Liverpool, NS - population 3000, home of Hank Snow. Okay, maybe not.) A few more comments: - No one will ever touch my Maple Leaf. I would die for that flag, and I would not be alone. - My mother is an Acadian, and while I don't consider myself Acadian, I do wait for the apology that I know will never come. Oddly enough though, she is a Monarchist, and dragged us out when I was a child to see the Prince and Princess of Wales during their tour of NS. - As a Canuck married to an Aussie, I have long wanted these two nations to develop closer ties. Hopefully this will help keep loyal Ulster in the UK, and maintain our links. Never Surrender! God Save the Queen! [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: thoughts | |
|
Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:47:45 11/24/04 Wed Someone mentioned exchanging the titel of Queen for Empress. I had thought about that before but only because I have a fondess for the title, it would not be practicle to try and change the title I dont think. Though perhaps having the Queen (or almost certainly King by that far off time) crowned Empress of the Commonwealth would be a grande and final way of showing unity when it is finally achieved. Someone else mentioened he was put off by the pro-Britishness of the site. I fail to see anything particularly pro-British, I suspect that guy had decided he woudl say that before he had even had a proper look. I mena common the best section the site is FCS Canada. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Thanks for that kind remark about the FCS Canada site, Owain. | |
|
Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:13:55 11/24/04 Wed [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Lots of encouraging comments there - I hope these people are spreading the idea around | |
|
Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:47:56 11/25/04 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |