Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
| [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [6], 7, 8, 9, 10 ] |
| Subject: Mandela, America and cultural homogeneity. | |
Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) | [ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
] Date Posted: 17:32:58 11/26/04 Fri In reply to: Steph (US) 's message, "I don't insist on it" on 16:48:53 11/26/04 Fri I don't know if you recall Nelson Mandela's visit to the USA during Clinton's difficult months of the Lewinsky affair. He said something about how, "as members of the British world", Americans should allow their president the ancient right of innocence until guilt be proven. I remember that a few aides' jaws dropped when he said it, but I think that he hit the nail right on the head. As an outsider, he was not subject to the propensity to see huge barriers where there are in fact only small differences, and the USA is indeed "one of us". If the Canadians are brothers, than the Americans at the worst are second cousins. Of course, his use of the word "British" was old-fashioned; but there is a community of nations which has no name - except for 'English-speaking', which is inadequate because it implies that the only thing we have in common is our language, as if it were some kind of cosmic coincidence that we all speak it - and the USA is part of it. Moreover, it is very telling that the Canadian members of the FCS, in particular, get very worked up at the closeness of relations between the US and the UK to the exclusion of Canada. It is indicative that, rightly or wrongly, London is much closer to Washington than to Ottowa or Melbourne. The relations bewteen the US and the UK are subject to the same forces which hold together CANZUK - we watch the same films and TV shows, read the same books, go to the same plays, listen to the same music; we have similar legal and political systems; we have a common cultural patrimony. Admittedly, the constitutional link via the Crown is not there, but our links with Canada, Australia and NZ would not disappear if these places became republics; so why should they not exist between the UK and the US? I think that this is especially true today, as Americans are forced by the fact that the UK is America's only real ally to realise that the myths shoved down their throats about the 1770s - which demonised the Brits - are largely untrue. For these reasons, I support Steph and not Owain. Also, Owain, you mention the 'unequal' relationship. I think that this is not fair, for a very simple reason: think how an Australian or Canadian or especially a New Zealander must feel at the prospect of federation with the UK. Britain has twice the population of Canada, three times that of Australia, and a massive twenty times that of NZ. For Brits to baulk at the 'unequal relationship' when that is exactly what we would be imposing on the former dominions strikes me as somewhat precious. We can not ask people to do what we refuse to do ourselves, you know. The integration of the USA into our federation involves additional problems, I grant you. But I suggest that it could be accomplished after a federation bewteen CANZUK were set up, in the same way that we talk about the Caribbean, or South Africa, etc. Any thoughts? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Including the US will significantly devalue the Federation | |
|
Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:02:13 11/26/04 Fri Yes, in an ideal world, they'd be happy to be part of the Federation and everyone would be happy to accept them. However, if it was an ideal world, then there would be no need for this forum. A federation of the 'CANZUK' nations and other realms is reasonably simple to establish; there will be no major legislative changes in terms of the everyday running of the places - each country will function as it does now, but closer together. The US is completely different. It is a republic; you simply cannot mix republics and monarchies together. Few people in Britain will accept this idea of a republic federation because the same people that are likely to support closer links to Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and other realms, are the same people that like the monarchy. The same can presumably be said for the majority of those in other realms. The US is unlikely to dump their idea of a single man who holds all the power, but is elected, either. Apart from a Civil War 140 years ago, the system has worked rather well for them. What's more, the culture of the CANZUK nations and of the US is more different than you imagine - it really is. As you rightly say, speaking roughly the same language does not make us identical. 'CANZUK-ians' are, for the most part, in favour of better public services and (slightly) higher taxes over a bare minimum of public services and a bare minimum of taxation. CANZUK-ians like to know that business practices are closely regulated; that the government is keeping a close eye on the environment and poor people; that the idea of freedom of speech should not be taken too far; that international relations should be, for the most part, preserved even when not necessary, et cetera. The majority of US-Americans do not agree (if they did, then President Bush wouldn't be there). The US is also very sure of itself and seems to believe that the political world has solidifed and will be roughly the same in 50 or 100 years - the US will of course be still on top, Europe perhaps number two or three, China close behind (but then perhaps every 'empire' has, and none so far have been right. I would not be surprised if in 50 years China is the world's super power). This means that they are unlikely to accept any compromise that weakens them, even temporarily - such as a shared army or increased taxation. With their massive population and huge GDP, they would dominate the federation. What's more, most CANZUK-ians are proud of their heritage and so are US-Americans - and the two differing perspectives are simply incompatible. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |