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[> [> [> Thanks -- Adam, - Friday - 11/30/12 - 9:49pm

Bruce,

Thanks - I was worried about that. Do you have any pictures of the process you could send to me? The previous owners have done a lot of modification work to the deck and cabin (I think it was completely redone some point in the past). Currently the decks are overbuilt in fiberglass and in many places have no plywood underneath, but still seem structurally solid. It's just where there is still wood that there seems to be leaking :(

My fear is ripping something out that I should have left alone. So if you have any pictures documenting the process that would ease my mind a lot. Also ... what did you find was the easiest way to cut out the old deck completely?

~Adam

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[> [> [> [> Email -- Bruce, - Tuesday - 12/ 4/12 - 2:53pm

I just sent you email.
Give me a call to discuss. I can guide you through it. It is not difficult, just tedious.
Cheers

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[> [> [> [> Cabin top -- Terry, - Wednesday - 12/ 5/12 - 10:52am

Bruce is absolutely right. We did just that on Bridget,stripping cabin top right down to the frames and starting over.

The decks and cockpit were ok. Bill had rebuilt the cockpit.

If you don't go all the way down past the wet/rot, it will come back to bite you.

In some ways, it is easier, and perhaps even cheaper to to the whole thing rather than chasing leaks which will simply continue to migrate to other spots an pouring money into them on an endless pursuit.

I have some photos of what we did if you're interested. there are others here who have also "been there--done that, too.

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[> [> [> [> [> Anything helps ... What an amazing community -- Adam, - Thursday - 12/ 6/12 - 4:17pm

I'd love to see as many photos as possible of the process. I hope that by the time the dry weather rolls around sometime in May that I'll have a solid action plan for how to tackle this in the summer.

And on a side note, I have to compliment this amazing community. I just arrived and already the out pouring of support, knowledge, and enthusiasm is just incredible. Even though she is going to be a lot of work, I don't think I'll regret my decision to become a Mariner 31 owner.

Thank you all for putting up with my questions ... and all the ones I'm sure to have in the future.

~Adam

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[> [> [> Not daunting... -- Randall, - Friday - 12/14/12 - 6:55pm

Well, OK, it is a little.

OK, it is a lot...

But notice I did my work over about 6 plus years. Start with small stuff until you get use to the boat, and don't forget to go sailing in the summer. In hindsight I think myself a genius if only because I never work on the boat (much) in the summer--the winter is for projects.

I saw noted in another post to be careful NOT to do any patching on wet wood. If it's really wet where you are, you might leave patching of the cabin sides until the wood, the rotten sections and that around, is really dry. Epoxy won't adhere or soak up into anything moist, and trying would be a waste.

I've used WEST system epoxy exclusively, but just because that's what I started with. You might look into SMITHS, which makes a very good penetrating epoxy and then also the epoxy and filler to build up rotten areas. Could be useful. Of course the challenge we have with this method (building up rotten areas with filler and epoxy) is that the deck and cabin sides are moderately thin plywood. SMITHS techniques are more for wooden boats with heavy beaming, thick joints, etc. But look into it. Their illustrated instructions are very good.

I wouldn't necessarily go ripping up what the previous owner did right off. You might go around tapping with a plastic ball peen hammer (or even the end of a plastic screw driver). Good wood will give you a smart report and a good bounce; bad wood thunks, and there's very little return on the hammer. Test on good wood first to get the general sound OR known bad wood. Be careful though: the sound of good 1" plywood (cabin side) will not be the same as good deck wood (1/2" ply), and places where the deck is supported underneath will also report differently. Still, with a little practice, you can "sonar" you way around the boat and get a general idea where the issues are.

And read.

WEST has put together some really helpful manuals on repair using their products:

For fiberglass boats: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf

For wooden boats: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/howto-pub2/Wooden%20Boat%20Restoration%20and%20Repair.pdf

And Smiths: http://www.smithandcompany.org/technical.html

Also, Don Casey's little books on boat repair (there are a bunch) are great because they are simply written and have lots of illustrations. I'd avoid THIS OLD BOAT simply because it had fewer illustrations.

Epoxies are quite easy to work with once you get the hang of it.

One maxim to remember: whatever you do can be undone. So don't worry too much about making mistakes.

Best,

RR

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[> [> [> [> The long dry out ... -- Adam, - Tuesday - 12/18/12 - 9:54pm

Here in the Pacific Northwest dry weather is at a premium. And normally during those months I'm out sailing as much as possible. All other seasons are wet. I'm trying to dry the boat out as best I can right now. I have her pretty much fully tarped and have heaters running inside. I'm installing a solid fuel heater that I'm hoping will do wonders at sucking the moisture out from the cabin. I won't start any of the epoxy patching until after its been good and dry for awhile.

The problem with the old owners work is just that it wasn't done properly. The decks themselves are solid ... no soft spots or rotted wood. The cockpit and decks I think were re-done sometime in the past and are strong. The deck around the outside of the cockpit never was though, and you can tell, so I'll be using your guide to fix a lot of that ...

Where the old owner DID do the new glasswork down to the ply is very solid ... it just leaks because I don't think any of the deck hardware was pulled. The fiberglass wasn't faired or anything and was simply laid up to the toerail, not under neath. So, while the decks are strong, all the leaks remain. I think I'll have to put down one layer of glass after pulling all the deck hardware up (and properly rebedding it through the new glass) before the leaks will go away.

But all of these projects will require me to give up many sailing days this summer. Good thing I've got lots of sailing friends ... I'm going to work on all the areas of the deck that are essential to sailing (ie winches, shrouds, ext) first so that I can at least take her out sailing while in project mode a little bit ...

Thanks again for ALL your info. It has been invaluable so far in my planning stages. I can't wait to get the solid fuel heater in there!

~Adam

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[> [> [> [> Wet up there, indeed -- Randall, - Friday - 12/21/12 - 4:20pm

Yes, having just last month made it back to San Francisco from Port Townsend in Murre, I can sympathize with the wet. I had lovely sunny weather almost all the way from Alaska to Washington, and then on Oct 7, winter arrived in one three day period and stayed. It took me a month of harbor hopping to make it from Gray's Harbor to San Francisco.

One trick I pulled when working on Murre here in SF was to give up my slip in my Sausalito marina, pull the masts and put the boat in a covered berth for the winter. That way I could work during the months that SF attempts to imitate Seattle. The slip fee for the covered berth was maybe $20 more a month, and pulling the masts cost less than $200, so I felt it was worth it. And I could always get the summer slip back easily.

As regards leaky toe rails...welcome to the club. Even after all the work I've done on Murre, she still has a few leaks, mostly up in the forepeak where I can't get to them. One trick James of PIXIS employed to get around this was as follows: when he relayed the decks, he took fiberglass cloth all the way up the inside edge of the toe rail so that the top of the decks and the toe rail edge became one surface. In my experience, the leaking most usually comes from this joint of deck to toe rail. If you can't run glass up the side (I did not think to do that when I could) you might lay a really thick bead of bedding compound, like an inch wide, at this point. I used 3m 100 for this and for bedding hardware (not sure it is still available). I think pulling and rebedding hardware, to your point, will also help a lot.

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