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Date Posted: - Tuesday - 04/24/07 - 4:31pm
Author: Will M31 "Salvia"
Subject: How close can you sail?

Salvia has a new 120% roller furling headsail and an oversized mizzen. The main and mizzen are tired and will be replaced later this year. Neither the main nor the mizzen has a traveler or vang. The question I pose is how close to the wind can others with the Mariner 31 sail? I consistently tack through 140+ degrees which makes for VERY slow going into the wind. Please include any rigging tips you may have for getting a few more degrees out of the boat.

I am considering a traveler on the mizzen to begin with, then one on the main. Has anyone done this?

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Replies:

[> Sailing to windward -- GeneVT T/M 36C, - Wednesday - 04/25/07 - 10:58am

Will, Sandpiper is a cutter. I have never owned a ketch. We researched the ketch sail plan before making our purchase of Sandpiper. Having said all that...Sailing your ketch close by the wind with the mizzen set will slow you down. Saling close to the wind should NOT require a vang or traveler. Now, when you sail off the wind, the story changes. The further off the wind you sail, the more useful the mizzen will become. And, also, a vang and traveler. I am sure you know how all that works.

fair winds,


gs


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[> [> How close can you sail? -- Will M31 "Salvia", - Friday - 04/27/07 - 12:07pm

The question is "How close can you sail to the wind?" 70 degrees? 65 degrees? 10 degrees?


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[> 10 degrees, easy!!! -- Randall, - Friday - 04/27/07 - 3:42pm

Kidding. :)

If I remember right, I placed the wind vane markers at the masthead at something like 90* apart.

I have much the same genny, but it’s far from new.

In a nice breeze, let’s call it 15 knots apparent, I can point Murre right on the marker or the width of the vane tale off the marker. I’d guess this is something like 40*, 45* or 50* off apparent wind, 4 to 4 and a half points off.

In light winds, Murre can’t point as high. It’s a good heeling over that allows her to hunt.

In a reefing wind, she can often point a little higher, even with a baggily rolled up genny and as long as I move the jib sheet cars a few feet forward, because the main and mizzen flatten out wonderfully with a tuck.

I can point much higher with all sails pulled in flat like a J boat, but her speed goes to nothing much above the angles mentioned. The trick w/Murre is finding that balance between up wind angle and speed.

Murre is not a wonder sailing upwind, but I usually only notice it if I’m in with another boat of similar size. I can often maintain a match for speed (or nearly so), but have to bear off 10* or more to do it. It can be frustrating, but it’s the nature of the design.

Using the mizzen for upwind work can be tricky too. In very light wind you need it—you need everything. But as wind speed increases, it starts to backfill from the main and brake the boat, and it can add a ton of weather helm. But in moderate wind (wind where you wish you could fly everything, but the full mizzen is working against you) I find that reefing it works really well. Reefing the mizzen flattens it out and effectively gets the belly of the sail out of the way of the main and can often be far better than simply dropping it.

That the kind of info you’re looking for?

RR


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[> [> More response -- Will M31 "Salvia", - Monday - 04/30/07 - 2:26pm

We're getting ready to purchase a new main and mizzen. I hope it helps. I'm thinking of having the mizzen cut so it's flat without reefing.

I applaud you if you tack through 90 degrees into the wind. We are more like 150 degrees. I'm sailing an Island Packet in a couple of weeks - anxious to see how that one fares (also a full keel heavy displacement boat). I'll share any rigging tips I pick up.

Where are the other owners? Does anyone else want to share their experiences??


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[> 10 degrees, easy!!! -- Eric Schoenberg, - Sunday - 04/29/07 - 11:55am

I have a feeling that the real answer to your question depends on the details, such as how the sails are cut, their age and how the rigging is tuned. Kathryn Grace (M32) with the old sails, had trouble tacking and pointing while the new sails have made all the difference. Subtle changes in tuning adjusted the weather/lee helm nicely. She balances and sails nicely with jib and mizzen, especially when there's a lot of wind, and not too well with jib and main.


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