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Date Posted: 12:21:14 02/16/02 Sat
Author: Raz Reed
Subject: Draft Dodger 'Dannenberg' Newsweek, Feb. 18

dannenbe@hawaii.edu Dannenberg's email the one from the article in Newsweek.
Mike

PERHAPS WE ALL CAN SEND HIM "GREETINGS".PLEASE GIVE THIS WIDEST DISTRIBUTION.

ALSO, NEWSWEEK ADDRESS IS: Web.Editors@Newsweek.com

Semper Fi-

Ironman0311


Why is it when all these people of late having a post 9/11 "Epiphany" seem to always try to shield their cowardliness with the mention of their FATHERS service and heroism? To me the trend among these guys is as obvious as it is sickening. IMHO

S/F-

Rick
>>>>

What I Did Was Legal, But Was It Right?

I avoided the draft by taking a student deferment; what haunts me is that somebody took my place

By James Dannenberg
NEWSWEEK

Feb. 18 issue — Funny how time and events can turn your world view upside down. Now that we are engaged in what most folks—me included—consider a “just war” in response to terrorist attacks, a war in which American men and women volunteer to put themselves in harm’s way, I am reminded of the not-so-subtle moral ambiguities my generation faced during the Vietnam War.

A FEW YEARS AGO my young son and I visited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. When he asked whether I had fought in the war, I told him I had not. His question awakened a hundred hibernating arguments and rationalizations, but I felt incapable of telling him anything more, and he didn’t probe further.

I did not volunteer for military service during the Vietnam War, nor was I drafted. Although I was of prime service age and fit enough, I did what I could within the law to avoid service, taking advantage of student deferments until 1970, when I turned 26 and was considered too old for the draft. Had I been drafted I might have considered resistance or Canada, but in truth I never had to make any hard choices. I slipped by, and I’ve had flashes of guilt and self-doubt ever since.

When it comes to our personal histories, we’re all revisionists, struggling, usually unconsciously, to place our past in the best light, to see ourselves as virtuous. I have long been convinced of the rectitude of my opposition to the war. But as the passage of time brings greater objectivity, I have become more critical about my actions during that period.

Vietnam seemed a cruel misadventure to many then, as it still seems to me, and only through the thickest cold-war lenses could it be seen as a just war. Communities and generations clashed about its wisdom and morality. Eventually, however, as the body count rose, a majority of Americans from all ranks came to oppose it. Then it was over, and America moved on.

But even in the 21st century it is clear that some wounds have not completely healed. Some boys went to Vietnam, and some did not. And we all know who we are.
Yet from the beginning I was dimly haunted by the notion that for each college boy we managed to “save,” there was always another kid from a less privileged background to take his place

My first work as a lawyer in 1969 was in draft law, a now obsolete but then politically correct specialty. Our little firm of young lawyers was successful in keeping lots of boys out of the draft, mainly by tying up the Selective Service with its own regulations. Yet from the beginning I was dimly haunted by the notion that for each college boy we managed to “save,” there was always another kid from a less privileged background to take his place. The Selective Service was like a giant shark on a perpetual feed: if it missed one fish, it would move on to the next.

So even back then our legal victories rang a little hollow to me. Certainly they struck no telling blows against the war effort. On reflection, they seem immoral and dishonorable, much like the payments Civil War draftees could make to avoid service. Small comfort that we were on the “correct” side, that we were against the war. Our smugness was akin to the romantic reminiscences of Spanish Civil War ideologues, parodied by humorist Tom Lehrer: they won all the battles, but we had all the good songs.

A few years ago I began to think about the fact that someone took my place, too. Maybe he was drafted and sent to Vietnam. Maybe he was traumatized in the way that many combat veterans are. Maybe he died.

Millions of my generation did go to Vietnam and serve honorably, but many middle-class, college-educated kids like me were effectively immune from service. Vietnam was an abstraction to us, albeit a powerful one. No doubt this shielded us from the kind of serious contemplation that seems appropriate even today, as we revere WWII vets and send troops to Afghanistan.

The real cost of the war was brought home to me recently, when I discovered that one of my own cousins had died in Vietnam. Richard Marks was only 19, a Marine Pfc, when he was killed in Quang Nam in 1966, at the same time that I was safely protected from harm by a graduate-student deferment. In a way I have come to look upon Richard as my metaphorical counterweight.

I make no apology for opposing the war and still admit to some nostalgia for the spirit of the ’60s, though I feel embarrassment for our ideological excesses. I only hope that I did not use my privilege to avoid military service out of cowardice, even as I admit to having been afraid.

No doubt about it: war is about killing and dying, and each generation must confront its own fear in answering the call. My father was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, our nation’s second highest military honor, as a combat medic during World War II. Had I been in his shoes, I like to think that I, too, would have served.

But I’ll really never know, and talk is cheap. I survived the 1960s with a law degree and some guilt. Richard’s name is on the wall, along with 58,000 others.

Dannenberg lives in Kailua, Hawaii.

© 2002 Newsweek, Inc.



Subj: Re: A few replies Re: What I Did Was Legal, But Was It Right?

Rick,

Dannenberg and others like him are still trying to justify their decisions and actions.

It is now 2002 and the Vietnam War has long been over.

It was cool then to be a draft dodger or protestor. Free drugs and quick lay with a "round eyed" chick. It was the "in crowd".
Today, the "in crowd" suffers from their version of PTSD. "I should have been like my papa."

They were the sharks in our society; creating feeding frenzies on every traditional value standard in our country. Now, they cannot understand how things got out of control. They don't know how to put it back together.

An excellent example, look at the leadership this country had with Bill Cliniton and cronies for eight years.There is their legacy. NO PRIDE, NO HONOR, NO LOYALTY.

The fortunate leadership exhibited by Bush and crew after 9/11 leaves the "me generation" in their own personal dust and rubble.
They want to be remember for their version of bravery; standing up against their government. They want the same kudos and accolades being shown to our brave young men & women.

YOU can't have it. YOU had your chance to be a hero. A coward dies a thousand deaths.

So Dannenberg and the rest of your kind; keep writing and rewriting your awards' letter, they make great read when I make a
Head Call.

Zeeman


Subject: A few replies Re: What I Did Was Legal, But Was It Right?


Seems as though the old adage about "finding sympathy between SHIT and SYPHILIS in the dictionary cause you ain't gonna find none here" is alive and well. Is this a great country or what?

Just don't hold back fellas ... tell us how you REALLY feel!

Agreed. This guy and his ilk were/are pukes ...

I have often wondered how many lives that were spent (on both sides and collaterally) were a result of the war being LENGTHENED by their actions. My standard line, when I bring that point to their attention (to which they will not, or, cannot admit), is "for a pacifist you sure got a lot of blood on your hands." That always makes em look at you funny ...

S/F-

Rick


I have even less use for them...I had graduated from college and I enlisted....so I get about half way through these things and want to throw up.

Jtd

>>>

I have one, standard, response for Mr. Dannenberg and other apologists, revisionists and COWARDS of his ilk: It seems terribly strange to me, and outrageously hypocritical, that we can celebrate all of eastern Europe "throwing off the yoke of communism;" that we can celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall; that we can support and encourage the Russians, and the Chinese, to move toward a "market-based economy" and thus to democracy; that we can keep 37,000 troops in Korea to "protect the democratic south from the communist north;" and that we can ponder ways of getting rid of Castro -- yet we can feel no national SHAME in condemning 19 million south Vietnamese to live under exactly the same repressive totalitarianism that we decry everyplace else in the world. Shame on you Mister Dannenberg. Shame on you for the gutless position you took then, and are trying to excuse now. It isn't often that one lives long enough to have HISTORY repute your mistakes during your lifetime. But, in this case, it HAS. Face up to it, and admit it, you spineless worm. Strong message to follow.

Semper Fi, Roger
>>>
I am sorry but I think it is a little late to say he would of server. I didn't think the war was right myself but, it was my duty to go so I went and I too like all others was afraid. I was not one that at the time could go on to higher education. I don't know that I would of if I could of. So I might be the one that took his place. I was WIA 29Mar67 and am 100% disabled from my wounds. In my own opinion the only difference is how you handle your fear. I like others faced it then and over came it. Seems he is still afraid. I served so he could get his education and I would do it again. If I could. I feel no sorrow for this man how might be carrying some bad feelings around because he got out of his duty. Hope he losses a lot of sleep over it I am.
Mike Kelly
Sgt USMC 66-69

>>>>

If this sucker expects any comfort and understanding from me, he can kiss my ass. The only favorable thing I can say is he at least has the balls to say he purposely "avoided the draft", though his admission took over thirty years to come forth.

With these kinds of "guilty revelations" thirty years after the fact, and the more frequent exposures of "wannabes" from venues of respected fields and officialdom, is there any wonder to anyone why Vietnam veterans remain incredulous and distrustful of their own generation.

Personally, I have yet been able to identify with anyone who did not serve in the military, and could have or should have in the 1960s-70s. When I see others of my own age, no matter where I go, the first thing I ask myself is "did he give of himself to and/or for the country during that time, or did he burn his draft card and raise hell in the streets (to which this man, and his kind, still say were glorious and truly idealistic times). Its bullshit now and it was bullshit then.

Lima 4


While we are dispensing justice to those who have dishonored us and the USA, we could round up the draft dodgers of our generation and those who threw rocks, tomatoes and eggs at us when I got off the Freedom Bird in San Francisco. Unfortunately this is our burden to bear, for doing what we knew to be right. Many years of mulling over memories has not mellowed the sense of betrayal I feel toward my own generation. It comforts me to know that they will never experience, nor understand the honor of serving with and fighting along side some of the finest men and women our country has ever known. We offered our lives and many of us paid the ultimate price to free the South Vietnamese. When I got off that Freedom Bird, I entered a foreign land, a country that I no longer recognized as the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. A people the majority of which were cowards, who sent the innocent and idealistic sons and daughters of America to their deaths and didn’t have the courage to complete the mission. Their Shit is Flaky My Friend............Raz Reed----- Original Message -----



Thanks for sending me those replies to the What I did Was legal email. I needed to see others feel like I do, and in a way, I feel sorry for his children and grandkids he has, for they live with a coward of the worst kind. Hope you can get his email address and let him know how we feel.

Semper-Fi
Mike Kelly

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

By James Dannenberg
NEWSWEEK

Feb. 18 issue — Funny how time and events can turn your world view upside down. Now that we are engaged in what most folks—me included—consider a “just war” in response to terrorist attacks, a war in which American men and women volunteer to put themselves in harm’s way, I am reminded of the not-so-subtle moral ambiguities my generation faced during the Vietnam War.
DEAR MR. DANNENBERG:
PLEASE EXCUSE MY REPLY BEING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, I REALIZE IT IS NOT PROPER ETIQUETTE TO TYPE THIS WAY, IT IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN ONE IS BEING LOUD AND BOISTEROUS, BUT I, AM, USING THIS TYPE TO DISTINGUISH MY RESPONSE FROM YOURS THAT YOU WROTE IN NEWSWEEK. THERE REALLY IS NO REASON TO HOLLER BUT I DO FIND THE NEED TO RESPOND TO YOUR STORY IN NEWSWEEK ABOUT AVOIDING THE DRAFT.




A FEW YEARS AGO my young son and I visited the Vietnam Veterans
Memorial. When he asked whether I had fought in the war, I told him I had not. His question awakened a hundred hibernating arguments and rationalizations, but I felt incapable of telling him anything more, and he didn’t probe further.
HERE IS MY QUESTION TO YOU, MR. DANNENBERG, IF YOU FELT INCAPABLE OF TELLING YOUR SON WHY YOU CHOSE TO AVOID SERVING YOUR COUNTRY WHEN CALLED UPON DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO CLEAR YOUR CONSCIOUS IN A NATIONAL PUBLICATION? MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR SON ASK SOME OF US THAT SERVED IN VIETNAM, WE CAN GIVE HIM A MULTITUDE OF REASONS WHY HIS FATHER DIDN'T SERVE.

I did not volunteer for military service during the Vietnam War, nor was I drafted. Although I was of prime service age and fit enough, I did what I could within the law to avoid service, taking advantage of student deferments until 1970, when I turned 26 and was considered too old for the draft. Had I been drafted I might have considered resistance or Canada, but in truth I never had to make any hard choices. I slipped by, and I’ve had flashes of guilt and self-doubt ever since.
NO ONE IS CRITICIZING YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID, MR. DANNEBERG, SO WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED NOW TO "BEAR YOUR SOUL" BECAUSE YOUR SON ASKED YOU A QUESTION YOU WERE, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, ASHAMED TO ANSWER. PERSONALLY, YOU ARE NOT TELLING US THAT DID SERVE IN VIETNAM ANYTHING WE HAVEN'T KNOWN FOR YEARS, AND THAT'S OK, BUT WE DO RESENT YOU USING A PUBLIC FORUM TO CLEAR YOUR CONSCIOUS AND STILL USE THE SAME "ANTIWAR" DRIBBLE THAT YOU AND YOUR KIND USED BACK THEN AND STILL USE TODAY TO JUSTIFY WHY YOU DIDN'T SERVE.


When it comes to our personal histories, we’re all revisionists, struggling, usually unconsciously, to place our past in the best light, to see ourselves as virtuous. I have long been convinced of the rectitude of my opposition to the war. But as the passage of time brings greater objectivity, I have become more critical about my actions during that period.
I HATE TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE, SIR, BUT THE ONLY RECTITUDE YOU WERE CONVINCED OF HAVING OPPOSED THE VIETNAM WAR IS THAT YOU MIGHT GET SHOT OR KILLED AND YOU DIDN'T CONSIDER YOUR COUNTRY WORTH DYING FOR. THAT'S IT, MR. DANNEBERG, PLAIN AND SIMPLE, NOTHING MORE! VIETNAM VETERANS REALLY GET SO TIRED OF DRAFT DODGING HIPPIES/YUPPIES AND/OR COLLEGE STUDENTS OF TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS DURING THE VIETNAM WAR AND CONTINUE TO SPOUT THEIR SAY OLD WORN OUT RHETORIC ABOUT WHY THEY CHOSE NOT DUCK THE DRAFT AND MILITARY SERVICE TO FIGHT COMMUNISM IN SOUTH VIETNAM.

Vietnam seemed a cruel misadventure to many then, as it still seems to me, and only through the thickest cold-war lenses could it be seen as a just war. Communities and generations clashed about its wisdom and morality. Eventually, however, as the body count rose, a majority of Americans from all ranks came to oppose it. Then it was over, and America moved on.
THE ONLY REASON IT SEEMED A CRUEL MISADVENTURE TO YOU, SIR, IS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD TO GO AND DIE. THE VIETNAM WAR WAS FOUGHT BECAUSE WE HAD A TREATY WITH THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE AND COMMUNISM AT THE TIME, WAS NO LESS A THREAT TO OUR FREEDOMS IN AMERICA THEN TERRORISM IS TODAY. I WILL GIVE YOU THIS, THE GOVERNMENT MIGHT NOT HAVE USED THE CORRECT TACTICS TO FIGHT THE WAR, IT COULD HAVE BEEN OVER LONG BEFORE "A VOCAL MINORITY" OPPOSED IT, BUT NONETHELESS, COMMUNISM WAS A THREAT TO THE SECURITY OF THE FREE WORLD. YOU KNOW IT, I KNOW IT AND EVERYONE ELSE FROM THAT GENERATION KNOWS IT!



But even in the 21st century it is clear that some wounds have not completely healed. Some boys went to Vietnam, and some did not. And we all know who we are.
Yet from the beginning I was dimly haunted by the notion that for each college boy we managed to “save,” there was always another kid from a less privileged background to take his place
WE SURE DO KNOW WHO WENT, YES, SOME WITH LESS PRIVILEGED BACKGROUNDS, MR. DANNEBERG, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF US CAME FROM NORNAL BACKROUNDS AND VOLUNTEERED TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND SERVE OUR COUNTRY WHEN CALLED. YOU AND OTHERS FROM YOUR GENERATION CHOSE NOT TO AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I WISH PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD JUST LET IT GO! YOU DIDN'T GO, WE DID AND WE REALLY DON'T CARE WHY YOU DIDN'T; WE ALREADY KNOW WHY!



My first work as a lawyer in 1969 was in draft law, a now obsolete but then politically correct specialty. Our little firm of young lawyers was successful in keeping lots of boys out of the draft, mainly by tying up the Selective Service with its own regulations. Yet from the beginning I was dimly haunted by the notion that for each college boy we managed to “save,” there was always another kid from a less privileged background to take his place. The Selective Service was like a giant shark on a perpetual feed: if it missed one fish, it would move on to the next.
WHY DIDN'T I HAVE TO ASK IF YOU WERE A LAWYER? TALK ABOUT THE SELECTIVE SERVICE BEING A "GIANT SHARK" ON A PERPETUAL FEED, IT SEEMS MANY THINK A NUMBER OF LAWYERS CAN ALSO LAY CLAIM TO THAT TITLE.


So even back then our legal victories rang a little hollow to me. Certainly they struck no telling blows against the war effort. On reflection, they seem immoral and dishonorable, much like the payments Civil War draftees could make to avoid service.
WELL, WE CAN AT LEAST AGREE ON THAT, MR. DANNEBERG!


Small comfort that we were on the “correct” side, that we were against the war.
Our smugness was akin to the romantic reminiscences of Spanish Civil War ideologues, parodied by humorist Tom Lehrer: they won all the battles, but we had all the good songs.
I GOT SOME NEWS FOR YOU, SIR, YOU WEREN'T ON THE CORRECT SIDE AND YOU AND YOUR KIND WERE USED BY THE COMMUNIST. SOME PEOPLE SAY VIETNAM VETERANS WERE USED, I DON'T AGREE, BUT EVEN IF I WAS, AT LEAST I WAS USED BY MY COUNTRY AND NOT THE ENEMEY, AND BY THE WAY, WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE WERE FLEEING THE COMMUNISTS ON ANYTHING THAT WOULD FLOAT? DID YOU TAKE ANY "BOAT PEOPLE" INTO YOUR HOME AFTER YOU GAVE AID AND COMFORT TO THEIR ENEMY, OUR ENEMY, THE NORTH VIETNAMESE AND VIET CONG? OH, AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE COMMUNIST OF THE POL POT REGIME KILLED 2 MILLION OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE? I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING FROM YOUR GENERATION WHEN THAT WAS GOING ON! YOU AND THE MANY OTHERS THAT AVOIDED SERVICE IN VIETNAM THE WAY YOU DID WERE NOTHING BUT COWARDS AND I SAY THAT WITH NO MALICE, HATRED NOR HOSTILITY. IF YOU TRULY OPPOSED WAR, ANY WAR, YOU WOULD HAVE OPENLY STATED YOUR OPPOSITION AND EITHER WENT TO PRISON FOR YOUR BELIEFS, ENTERED THE MILITARY AS A CONSCENTIOUS OBJECTOR OR DID COMMUNITY SERVICE IN A HOSPITAL SOME WHERE IN YOUR COMMUNITY. YOU CHOSE NONE OF THE ABOVE BUT TO HIDE OUT ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS AND GIVE AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES THAT WAS KILLING AMERICANS AND OUR ALLIES FROM SOUTH VIETNAM, SOUTH KOREA, NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND AND THE PHILIPPINES.


A few years ago I began to think about the fact that someone took my place, too. Maybe he was drafted and sent to Vietnam. Maybe he was traumatized in the way that many combat veterans are. Maybe he died.
MAYBE THE GUY THAT TOOK YOUR PLACE WAS TRAUMATIZED OR KILLED IN ACTION BUT THEN MAYBE AGAIN HE SURVIVED, LIKE ME AND MANY OF MY OTHER BROTHERS AND SISTERS, AND WE BEAR WITNESS TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU; COWARDS.


Millions of my generation did go to Vietnam and serve honorably, but many
middle-class, college-educated kids like me were effectively immune from service.
PLEASE, SIR, WE MIGHT BE AROUND THE SAME AGE BUT I, AM NOT FROM YOUR GENERATION. I AM FROM THE BABY BOOMER VIETNAM VETERAN GENERATION, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM YOU AND THE OTHERS LIKE YOU.


Vietnam was an abstraction to us, albeit a powerful one. No doubt this shielded us from the kind of serious contemplation that seems appropriate even today, as we revere WWII vets and send troops to Afghanistan.
I GOT SOME MORE NEWS FOR YOU, MR. DANNEBERG, MANY OF THE CHILDREN FROM THOSE OF YOU THAT DODGED THE DRAFT REVERE VIETNAM VETERANS AND HAVE THE HIGHEST RESPECT AND REGARD FOR THOSE OF US THAT ANSWERED OUR COUNTRY'S CALL TO FIGHT COMMUNISM. I KNOW, I HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO SCHOOLS, COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WELL RECEIVED BY THE YOUNGER PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY.


The real cost of the war was brought home to me recently, when I discovered that one of my own cousins had died in Vietnam. Richard Marks was only 19, a Marine Pfc, when he was killed in Quang Nam in 1966, at the same time that I was safely protected from harm by a graduate-student deferment. In a way I have come to look upon Richard as my metaphorical counterweight.
I FIND IT PATHETIC AND SAD THAT YOU JUST RECENTLY FOUND OUT THAT ONE OF YOUR OWN COUSINS DIED IN THE VIETNAM WAR. MAYBE IT WAS OUR BROTHER, RICHARD MARKS, THAT TOOK YOUR PLACE IN VIETNAM, MR. DANNENBERG?



I make no apology for opposing the war and still admit to some nostalgia for the spirit of the ’60s, though I feel embarrassment for our ideological excesses. I only hope that I did not use my privilege to avoid military service out of cowardice, even as I admit to having been afraid.
THEN IF YOU MAKE NO APOLOGY WHY DON'T YOU JUST SHUT UP AND LET IT GO? SPIRIT OF THE 60'S, YOU SAY? MOST OF YOU WERE OUT FOR NOTHING MORE THAN THE SEX, DRUGS, ROCK N ROLL AND A WAY TO ESCAPE FIGHTING IN VIETNAM WHICH IS WHAT YOU DID. MIKE ROYKO, A COLUMNIST FOR THE CHICAGO SUN TIMESSAID IT BEST BACK IN THE 80'S, "YOUR THROBBING MORAL CONSCIENCES SUBSIDED IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO THE THREAT OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY AND COMFORT!" WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER? ALL OF YOU DRAFT DODGERS JUST DISAPPEARED. ONE, JERRY RUBIN, ENDED UP WORKING ON WALL STREET, THE VERY SYSTEM HE, YOU AND SO MANY OF YOUR KIND OPPOSED DURING THE VIETNAM WAR.


No doubt about it: war is about killing and dying, and each generation must confront its own fear in answering the call. My father was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, our nation’s second highest military honor, as a combat medic during World War II. Had I been in his shoes, I like to think that I, too, would have served.
YOU HAD A CHANCE TO SERVE IN HIS SHOES, MR. DANNEBERG, AND YOU CHOSE TO HIDE OUT ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS. ASK ANY COMBAT VETERAN, WE HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR COMBAT MEDICS AND CORPSMEN, AND SOME IN VIETNAM THAT WERE OPPOSED TO KILLING WENT AND CARRIED NO WEAPONS WHILE FACING ENEMY FIRE. I AM SURE I SPEAK FOR ALL VIETNAM VETERANS, WE RESPECT YOUR FATHER IMMENSELY BUT THAT IS WHERE THE RESPECT STOPS AND WE DON'T AFFORD YOU ANY RESPECT. VIETNAM VETERANS ALSO GET TIRED OF DRAFT DODGERS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEIR FATHERS DID. MANY OF OUR FATHERS SERVED IN WORLD WAR 2 AND WE DID FOLLOW IN OUR FATHER'S FOOTSTEPS AND SERVED WHEN OUR COUNTRY CALLED US TO FIGHT IN VIETNAM. I GOT SOME MORE NEWS FOR YOU, SIR, NO MATTER WHAT WAR THIS COUNTRY FOUGHT, YOU AND THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS LIKE YOU THAT DODGED THE DRAFT WOULD NEVER HAVE SERVED REGARDLESS OF WHAT WAR IT WAS! YOU AND YOUR KIND USE VIETNAM AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO HAVE FOUGHT AND NOT ONLY NOT WANTING TO FIGHT, BUT GAVE AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY, PROLONG THE WAR AND WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR COUNTLESS AND NEEDLESS AMERICAN, SOUTH VIETNAMESE, AMERICA'S ALLIES, VIET CONG AND NORTH VIETNAMESE DEAD. THAT ISN'T JUST MY OPINION, READ THE WORDS OF HO CHI MINH, GENERAL GIAP AND OTHER HIGH RANKING COMMUNIST NORTH VIETNAMESE AND VIET CONG LEADERS, THAT IS THEIR WORDS AND THEY ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE AND READ. WHEN THEY SAW YOUR KIND OPPOSING THE WAR, THEY KNEW IT WOULD BE JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE AMERICANS AT HOME WOULD GIVE UP AND THEN THEY COULD TAKE OVER SOUTH VIETNAM AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID! I GIVE GREAT CREDIT TO MY FORMER ENEMY, THEY TOOK A STAND FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVED IN, UNLIKE YOU AND MANY OTHERS FROM YOUR GENTERATION. I HAVE A DEEP RESPECT FOR MY FORMER ENEMY AND YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY RESPECT ME AND MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT WENT TO CONFRONT THEM IN SOUTH VIETNAM.


But I’ll really never know, and talk is cheap. I survived the 1960s with a law degree and some guilt. Richard’s name is on the wall, along with 58,000 others.
YOUR RIGHT, MR. DANNEBERG, TALK IS CHEAP AND FRANKLY WE, VIETNAM VETERANS DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT YOU DID DURING THE WAR! ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO TO "THE WALL" WHICH WE CONSIDER SACRED GROUND, OUR SERVICE AND THE SERVICE OF THOSE BEFORE AND AFTER US ACCORDED YOU THE FREEDOMS YOU ENJOY, BUT WE FRANKLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE LIKE YOU, BILL CLINTON AND THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS NOT DESECRATE THE MEMORIAL TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO BUT YOU DIDN'T EARN THE RIGHT! I HOPE WHEN YOU DID GO YOU AT LEAST TOOK A "RUBBING" OF YOUR COUSIN'S NAME AND HAVE IT IN A PLACE OF HONOR IN YOUR HOME. IF YOU STILL FEEL GUILT, THEN USE YOUR PEN AND FORUM TO HELP THE VETERANS OF THIS COUNTRY OF ALL WARS GET THE ENTITLEMENTS THAT THEY DESERVE AND MANY TIMES HAVE TO FIGHT AND FIGHT TO MAKE THE GOVERNMENT DO THE RIGHT THING. OFTEN TIMES THESE VETERANS DIE BEFORE THEIR CASE BEFORE THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S AFFAIRS IS EVEN HEARD. SPEAK UP AND DEMAND A BETTER VA HOSPITAL SYSTEM AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO QUIT RENEGING ON THE ENLISTMENT CONTRACT EACH AND EVERY VETERAN SIGNED AND TO HONOR THE SERVICE OF EVERY VETERAN BY KEEPING THEIR WORD AND GIVING EVERY VETERAN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT! I SHOULDN'T ASK SO MUCH OF YOU, SIR, YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE VETERANS OF VIETNAM THEN, OTHER THAN TO GET MANY KILLED THAT MAY HAVE LIVED BECAUSE YOUR ACTIONS PROLONGED THE EWAR AND YOU PROBABLY WON'T DO ANYTHING NOW FOR ANY VETERANS. IN THE FUTURE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, KEEP YOUR DRAFT DODGING TO YOURSELF BECAUSE WE, VIETNAM AND VIETNAM ERA VETERANS, COULDN'T CARE LESS!
THANK YOU,

JOE TARNOVSKY
240TH ASSAULT HELICOPTER COMPANY
DOORGUNNER/CREW CHIEF
UH-1C HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS
REPUBLIC OF SOUTH VIETNAM
28 AUGUST 68 TO 22 OCT 70
8338 WEST MORELAND ROAD
PARMA, OHIO 44129-2834
(440)843-3816

You can reply by clicking on the link below.
MSNBC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ironman,
Before 9/11 I passed on a story to my Eagle Brothers about a woman from NYC who had some musing about her fathers military service after his funeral. A few of the Brothers decide to write her going thru the magazine publisher. They did get a couple of responses and were setting a plan into motion when the terrorist attack occurred. We/they never heard from her again. When I wear my 327th Black Cap, I get two distinct responses. The old Vets coming up to me, some wanting to talk some just say a quick Hi. Then I get the blank stare from the other bunch, I don?t know what they have in their mind but when I look them direct in their eyes they just hurry on. I didn?t volunteer for the Army, when I was drafted I served. I never thought I wouldn?t and sure was busy about my life when I got called. But then I was an American kid, living in this Great Country and I just figured it was the right thing to do. I?m glad I served and I?m proud of every one of us that did.
Let me pass this low life?s lament onto the Eagles and see if anyone wants to take him to task. Thanks for keeping us informed!
NS/ATR! & SF!
YJ
Subj: Re: What I Did Was Legal, But Was It Right? I avoided the draft by ...
Aloha Rick,

Just a note, this sap sucking basted Dannenberg is only listed by phone number (808) 261 - 4954 I will try and get both his home and office address. This is the typical bullshit that comes from many attorneys here in Hawaii. This state (Hawaii) has MORE DISCIPLINED Attorneys than any state in the United States, simply because of this basterds simple mindness. If I can find that he is still practicing law, I would suggest we FLOOD the displenary board with protests, if only, that he swears to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Ole Charlie

Subj: RE: What I Did Was Legal, But Was It Right? I avoided the draft by ...

This guy needs to realize that only one pair of feet fit in a pair of shoes. He can never be in someone else's shoes-it's all on him.
(Wyatt)
>>>
I'll never the sign I saw posted at m.c.r.d. when I went thru in Aug 67. My God, My country, My corps, Myself.

David in Minnesota.
>>>
Subj: the puke
Date: 02/15/2002 5:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Usmcron8
To: Ironman0311



i am also a Vietnam veteran i quit high school to be a marine and serve my country i also was wounded in June of 1968 and am 100% disabled from wounds i served 3 tours and dam proud of it if we all felt like that maggot what would this country be like people like him makes me vomit. semper fi fellow marines

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