| Subject: Re: more thoughts |
Author:
Tommy
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Date Posted: 07:40:30 08/31/00 Thu
In reply to:
Tommy
's message, "Re: god, who can't logically exist." on 07:26:42 08/31/00 Thu
> > they say god is allpowerfull, meaning that he can do
> > everything, but this, as any intelligent person would
> > agree, is a logical impossibility. allow me to
> > demonstrate by using a very simple and age-old
> > question:
> >
> > could god make an object, that is so heavy, that even
> > he can't lift it, using whatever means available to
> > him?
> >
> > he either can't make it, or can't lift it (using
> > whatever means available to him), this in itself
> > proves the non-existance of an all-powerfull god (and
> > therefore, the christian god, who is defined as
> > allpowerfull). ofcourse christians attempt to refute
> > this argument through various means (and fail at
> doing
> > so), for example: "but why would god want to make
> such
> > an object, that doesn't make sense!"
> >
> > wether or not god would want to make the object is
> > irrelevant, if he could make the object, he couldn't
> > lift it, and if he could lift it, he couldn't make it
> > in the first place.
> >
> > "but god doesn't have to follow the rules of logic!
> so
> > he can still do both!"
> >
> > this is ofcourse a cop-out, but it appears as though
> > the christian has won, or did he? only one question
> > ofcourse remains us:
> >
> > could god do it within the laws of logic?
> >
> > obviously not, and so we still have proven the
> > non-existance of an all-powerfull god. (and thus the
> > christian god)
> >
> >
> > ofcourse, god is also defined as being omniscient
> (all
> > knowing), that would mean he would know the future
> > before it happened, being that he is all knowing, he
> > would know the consequences of every event and
> action.
> > in essence he wouldn't really have any free will
> > himself. ofcourse then arises the question of how we
> > can use this to show the non-existance of the
> > christian god. well, think about it, christians claim
> > that quite specifically that god made mistakes.
> > supposedly humanity has done things that god didn't
> > want us to do (why would there be a hell after all?),
> > he told us not to eat from the fruit of knowledge,
> yet
> > we did. if he was omniscient, he would know
> beforehand
> > that we would eat from it anyway, so if he didn't
> > really want us to eat from it, he would've devised a
> > way to make sure we didn't. seeing as he didn't, we
> > can be pretty sure that he either a) intended for us
> > to eat from it, or b) isn't omniscient.
> >
> > if b) is the case, the christian god can not exist.
> >
> > if a) is the case, then god, who is also defined as
> > being all-good, can not possibly exist either. after
> > all, we are supposedly punished for what adam and eve
> > did, they were thrown out of paradise for something
> > god fully intended, basically speaking, he punished
> > them (and us) for something that was his plan. this
> is
> > not the act of a good god.
> >
> > and so we have it, the christian god can not exist.
> :
> avalanche,
> You always use the word Christian ...before the God
> doesn't exist part. Does that mean you might believe
> in a God then but just different from the one that is
> portrayed? Are you also trying to say that just
> because he might not be the kind of God that we think
> he is supposed to be ..does not mean that he is
> automatically evil and in a way you would be sticking
> up for him?
> Tommy
>
avalanche,
In going along the lines of what you just said.. if there was an illogical god that existed I bet he or she would really appreciate someone as logical as you by his or her side . :)
Tommy
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