| Subject: krz back to pjk |
Author:
krz
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Date Posted: 11/ 1/04 6:13:02pm
In reply to:
pjk
's message, "Re: pjk to krz" on 10/28/04 11:50:02pm
Hi pjk - thought I'd take a minute to respond to some of this. I appreciate the lengthy response you made.
>Krz: yet although you've offered contrasting opinion,
>your sources are as biased as the ones you critique me
>of using
>
>Pjk: I find it hard to quantify bias as in “as biased
>as” his or hers or mine in a general sense as you have
>suggested. I think it’s a case by case basis. In
>some philosophical sense, I suppose some of my sources
>are as biased, some worse, some better. (anything
>specific you had in mind?)
krz: Bias in and of itself is not bad - and that's the point I was attempting to make. I appreciate the need to know the source, but to denegrate a source because it comes from a philosophy different from one's own is distasteful to me.
>
>krz: how can any nation move forward when we can't
>agree to have civil discussions on differing points of
>interest?
>
>Pjk: It can’t. Now if we could just get rid of the
>blowhards of uncivil discussion who have millions of
>listeners on both sides, left and right, like Rush &
>Hannity and….. hmmm, can’t seem to think of lefties
>that compare. Can you?
krz: actually, I can - Michael Moore and Al Franken come to mind. I've also heard blowhards on Air America Radio (spent a number of hours listening when it first came out). Where I will agree the right has entered this arena first, the left has joined in with a vengence, and I can't/won't tolerate it from either side by listening. I've read Al Franken - his hate mongering may be perceived as a lesser degree of disrespect. However, I won't tolerate that type of behavior from my children simply because 'the other guy did it'; I don't see why I should let those in the public eye off the hook. Overt disrespect for persons of a different world view is not a right wing issue.
>
>Pjk: as I am and do… as for respecting tjm, yes, and
>admiration, and love, and the inexpressible mystery of
>who he is. But as everyone knows, I take issue with
>his with his affinity with groups and people I often
>loathe, who I distrust completely. To me it is not as
>casual as say, I like blue and you like red.
Here's a problem pjk. I have considerable difference with the far religious right philosophically, politically, socially. Yet "loathing" is not something I can bring myself to. You've carefully tried to encourage me not to denounce a group of people because of their (Muslim) religious affiliation; I'm going to carefully encourage you not to dismiss many of your fellow Americans because you have a different politic.
>
>
>Pjk: I don’t have any such definition. For me, it is
>an organic complex that has been developed and is
>still developing over and with time. It is based on my
>world view, my value system, my experiences, my paying
>attention to world events the past 20 years, my
>perception of human nature as it plays itself out on
>the grand political stage of America and the world, my
>understanding of history, my hopes and dreams for
>humanity, the acculturation of my Wisco-American mind
>and the de-culturation of my studies and travels. The
>chemical composition consists of such things as my
>catholic upbringing from which grew a sympathy more in
>tune with liberation theology than with Opus Dei, my
>middleclass roots - not quite blue collar, but not
>quite white collar either, that would rather take the
>side of the disenfranchised than cheerlead for the
>super wealthy, my affinity with hippies, & artists
>over rednecks and mercenaries, a love and respect for
>Nature for Nature’s sake, and not just in terms of how
>it can further our material progress, a deep distrust
>of government through Watergate, Vietnam, and Reagan,
>my travels, adventures & experiences overseas, my
>relationships with my Love and son, my awesome family
>& wonderful friends, and a great naïve hope that
>humans can someday realize peace on earth & goodwill
>towards all, where every morning is Christmas morning,
>where the weak are not crushed by the mighty and the
>Earth is not destroyed by greed. I don’t have or
>engage in dreams of empire. There is nothing I admire
>about War.
>
krz: this was nice pjk. I get this. Here's the challenge though - when someone who has a different set of experiences, a different upbringing, a different religious tradition comes to a different decision - you cannot assume that said individual is just wrong, or worse ill informed, under-educated... .
I have deep love, devotion, and respect for my father-in-law who is a Marine, a devout Catholic, served in military intelligence, ran a business, raised a large family, travelled world wide, and now cares for a disabled wife. He has come to a different election decision because of his deeply held convictions on some social concerns that are different than mine. Just because he and I don't see eye to eye - I completely respect his position; it was developed honestly with reflection and love.
The difficulty pjk, comes when you associate positions other than your own with value laden wording, and I quote
"A vote for Bush is more of the same bumbling and insistence on ideology over results" - some would argue Bush has given us results, just not the results you want.
"A vote for Bush is a vote for puny thoughts that do little to make much of a difference in people’s lives." - again, some would argue that Bush has made a difference in people's lives, just not those whose positions you value.
I don't consider my father in law to be bumbling nor his views puny - nor do I view any Bush supporter in that light. I'm not being pollyanna-ish, I'm just choosing to respect that experiences other than my own have formed a different opinion. Let me say this again, I'm choosing to assume this position - because respecting is a longer lever than loathing.
My issue pjk, is not that your position is left of mine, nor that it came from a set of experiences different than mine - it is that I sense in your rhetoric disrespect for the position taken if it doesn't match your experience.
thanks for taking the time to talk.
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