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Date Posted: 11:05:31 03/23/03 Sun
Author: Dammitboy!
Author Host/IP: cache-mtc-ah06.proxy.aol.com / 64.12.96.171
Subject: News from the frontlines........

on my war against ignorance at 'The Order'.

---------------------

The Order

Kharn *scratches head*...

Posted By: DammitBoy! (AOF)
Date: 1:46:45, 3|23|2003

I was astounded and dismayed by some of Kharn's most recent statements and I feel obliged to respond to the worst of them.

"Freedom is, in my opinion, a secundary value and in no way intrinsic, like most Americans feel it." - Kharn

Kharn, you might be young and naive, you maybe uneducated and unread, or you might just be a fool.

Regardless of whether any or all of that is true, I thought I would post some quotes for you to ponder upon.

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom.
--Sir Winston Churchill

Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!
--William Wallace

Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.
--Mahatma Gandh

And now that the legislators and do gooders have futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems. And try liberty....
--Frederic Bastiat

Freedom is not simply a question of checking the encroachments of totalitarianism; we must first overcome our own lack of resolve.
--Alexander Solzhenitsyn

In case you didn't notice Kharn, none of these quotes come from Americans.

Perhaps other people, besides Americans, have always and will always consider Freedom do be 'intrinsic'. Especially people more educated than you.

"I wouldn't like sacrificing my safety for some freedom." - Kharn

Here's a couple of quotes regarding that little gem of wisdom;

A person that will trade a little order for a little freedom will lose both, and deserve neither.
--Thomas Jefferson

They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin

In regards to how 'safe' you are in the Netherlands as opposed to the 'wild west' of the United States -

"The picture in North America differs from that in Europe. The USA has shown consistent drops in crime since 1988. Canada had a modest increase in 1991, but lower figures in 1995 as well as in 1999, leaving overall crime levels lower than in 1988. In the three European countries with four ICVS measures (England and Wales, Finland and the Netherlands), crime levels are still higher than in 1988, despite a fall in risks in 1999. Compared with 1991, risks fell more in North America than in five of the seven European countries showing falls."
Source: Van Kesteren, J.N., Mayhew, P. & Nieuwbeerta, P. (2000) Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries: Key-findings from the 2000 international Crime Victims Survey. The Hague, Ministry of Justice, WODC. Available online at http://www.unicri.it/icvs/publications/pdf_files/key2000i/index.htm. p. 49

If you need more information about gun control and how gun ownership rights make a person safer, just let me know and I'll post some more gun facts for your educational benefit.

-----------------

Is this constructive enough for you sonny?

ps - Secundary is not a word... the correct spelling is 'secondary'.

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