VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3], 4 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 07:05:12 05/21/08 Wed
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: Why doesn't UND teach us enroute?
In reply to: gb 's message, "Re: Why doesn't UND teach us enroute?" on 19:00:35 05/20/08 Tue

Revamping the ATC degree is a good idea for any degree. To ensure that it evolves as the career evolves and technology changes. The best way for UND to do that is to get feedback from recent graduates such as ourselves. I too had to take ISBE 320 and Mgmt 305 to complete a degree that specializes in 5 miles and 1000 feet. We also had to take calculus and composition, what good does that do us now??

Remember you are getting a 4 year college degree from a University. That is no small task considering the majority of the people who are working Air Traffic that are now retiring were off the street hires doing something else before taking the test. I've often thought, "If I wash out, what do I do with a degree in Air Traffic Control?" That is the most scary thought; having a degree that is only good to the FAA. You might find opportunities at a contract tower or Lockheed, but the FAA is of course the biggest employer of CTIs.

Yes, nonradar is important at the Academy, but they too should probably revamp their training program also. As very few facilities use non-radar (I say this as I had to use it yesterday at work, but that was the exception).

Most Enroute facilities train their D-sides to do non-radar procedures, but it may or may not be pass/fail. UND didn't offer any non-radar when I was there, but what I learned at the Academy was enough to pass the screen and then they taught us the same material at ZTL for non-radar in D-school.

The most beneficial change I think UND could make to the ATC program is to require the AVIT 222 "IFR Regs and Procedures" that the Commercial Aviation pilots take. No flying, just the ground school. Some people at ZTL don't know what a Localizer does or why it's important to a pilot. Some people just learn the phraseology without having the understanding of what they are saying.

UND's new non-radar course is going to be extremely beneficial to the ATC students. Also, new lab equipment would be nice, and to train of the exact stuff the FAA uses would have a tremendous advantage, but the bottom line.. Do you want to pay for it with lab fees?? Each position is about a $25,000 piece of equipment (or so I've been told) at ZTL. The Scope, VSCS, URET, ERIDS, Keyboard, Trackball, and D-side Input Keypad (also called a DIK :), plus the D-side position, and tracker position can get pretty spendy. Also, IF they did purchase the actual equipment, class size would be reduced because they would probably only have 3 or 4 positions. However, ZTL is changing out their lab and if anyone would like to purchase the old equipment and call it a charitable donation to their alma mater, I'll be willing to talk to the people in charge to get the ball rolling.
You will probably see the FAA update their labs before you'll see UND downgrade theirs. To be honest, the FAA equipment is outdated and it is my full opinion that the entire Atlanta ARTCC could be run on an Easy-Bake Oven powered by a Lite Brite.
This is a great topic, more opinions and feedback are definitely encouraged...

How many other departments from UND actually have professors exchanging ideas with former students via a free message board??

Cheers

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.