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Date Posted: 12:12:37 11/14/05 Mon
Author: Celebaelin
Subject: He's not the man his father was
In reply to: manwitch 's message, "Interesting. He would have been 76." on 10:50:59 11/14/05 Mon

Place the comma where ,and if, you like. The father-son relationship has certainly had its moments in TV and Film. The most high profile being Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader I suppose, then there's Connor and John Rooney (Paul Newman and Daniel Craig in Road to Perdition). I think ancient wisdom has much to offer in the perspective of father-son relationships though, and the creation of worlds and pantheons through the death of the father at the hands of the son is VERY common. A warning to fathers throughout history not to trust their sons? I think so. Hardly a feel good message, even the usually unremittingly cheery 'The Princess Bride' has the somewhat bleak prospect of the character portrayed by the redoubtable Mandy Patinkin confronting the six fingered man with the words "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die." It seems that father-son relationships are inexplicably linked with the theme of death and usually with the inability of the father figure to accept what Lucretius described in his metaphor of 'the torch of life'. Mother-daughter relationships are not portrayed in this way but we must surely accept that in dramatisations the more simplistic representations of conflict have traditionally tended to be a male preserve. Joss of course has changed this somewhat but still male conflicts must often be portrayed to be physically violent in order not to be considered 'gay'; it should be said that this is in a context where gay is a perjorative term. I can't really comment as to the reality of the uniform persistance of self-interest beyond its biological usefulness in both sexes but it seems a workable hypothesis to me.

As I write Johnatan Miller is chuntering on about Freud's perception of religion as exalted father worship and that, by co-incidence, brings me back to the point of my post.

The prophesy of 'the father will kill the son' is a shocking inversion of what is considered, and indeed must be, the natural order of things; that offspring will outlive the parents.

We can see Oedipus starting to loom up at the end of Couplet, would Wes revealing the prophesy to Angel help to bring it about, as happened in that story? What possible meanings are there of this prophesy? Without knowledge of the original wording we can't say. Did Wes over-react because of his experience with his own father? I don't think that was the reason but it's subject to interpretation; what happens to Connor if Angelus shows up again?

Henry the Fifth and The Poseidon Adventure? Strange bedfellows manwitch my friend.

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