| Subject: Re: All Hail to Alexander the Great and Philip His Father!! |
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Jeffersonne
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Date Posted: 07:03:16 09/13/04 Mon
>FROM: \"Pavlos Gyparis\"
Long may the memory of Philip of Macedonia and his great son Philip live on in our hearts and minds.
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>DATE: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:16:56 +0300
>TO: \"VMRO-MNM\" info@vmro-mnm.com
>SUBJECT: Why FYROM should not be named \"Macedonia\"
>
>The truth about Macedonia...
>
>?
>
>FYROM\'s residents have no historical cultural or
>linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia.
>
>The heart of ancient Macedonia was not in the teritory
>which FYROM occupies but in the Greek part of
>Macedonia were all the major archaeological
>discoveries took place.
>
>The name \"Republic of Macedonia implies a teritorial
>threat against Greece and other countries and it
>creates a great risk of renewed ethnic conflict in the
>Balkans.
>
>The area of FYROM was never called \"Macedonia\"
>before the 2nd World War. This name was given to the
>Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming
>to create conflicts in the region and to obtain Greek
>and Bulgarian teritories. Before the 2nd World War
>FYROM was called Vardarska.
>
>FYROM\'s population is a mixture of many different
>ethnic groups. Only 60% of them are \"Macedonians\".
>There is also a large minority of Albanians (30%) and
>smaller groups of Serbs Turks, Greeks and others.
>
>Ancient Macedonia and its civilization was part of the
>ancient Greek civilization.
>
>Suggestions
>
>Some suggestions for FYROM\'s permanent name:
>The name this region used since the 2nd world war -
>Vardarska
>The ancient name of the region - Paionia
>A name which describes the country geographicaly -
>Central Balkan Republic
>
>Related links
>
>Are FYROM\'s residents Macedonians?
>http://truth.macedonia.gr/index02.html
>The vision of \"Greater Macedonia\" [External link]
>http://uranus.eng.auth.gr/new/eng/macedonia/kofos/
>
>© Real Macedonia 2001
>
>The truth about Macedonia...
>
>? What do the scholars say?
>From \"A History of Macedonia\"
>by Malcom Errington (Philipps-Universitat in Marburg,
>Germany)
>University of California Press, 1993
>
>Page 3
>\"That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact
>speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be
>regarded nowadays as certain.\"
>
>Page 4
>\"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were
>non-Greek all had their origin in Athens at the time
>of the struggle with Philip II.\"
>
>From \"Alexander\'s empire\"
>by John Pentland Mahaffy (University of Dublin,
>Ireland)
>G Putnam\'s sons, London, 1881
>
>Page 8
>\"... for with Alexander the stage of Greek influence
>spread across the world. \"
>
>From \"The tutorial history of Greece, to 323 B.C. :
>from the earliest times to the death of Demosthenes\"
>by W. J. Woodhouse (Universiy of Sydney, Australia)
>University Tutorial Press, 1904, (reprinted 1944)
>
>Page 216
>\" This was Macedonia in the strict sense, the land
>where settled immigrands of Greek stock later to be
>called Macedonians\"
>
>From \"The Western Experience\"
>by Mortimer Chambers (University of California),
>Raymond Grew (University of Michigan),
>David Herlihy (Harvard University),
>Theodore Rabb (Princeton University)
>and Isser Woloch (Columbia University)
>Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 2nd edition , 1997
>
>Page 79
>\"THE MONARCHS OF MACEDONIA:
>Macedonia (or Macedon) was an ancient, somewhat
>backward kingdom in northen Greece. Its emergence as a
>Hellenic power was due to a resourceful king, Philip
>II (359-336), whose career has been unjustly
>overshadowed by the deeds of his son, Alexander the
>Great\".
>
>? What do the ancient historians say?
>» On the origin on the Macedonians
>» On the language of the Macedonians
>» On the religion of the Macedonians
>» On the culture of the Macedonians
>» On the geography of Macedonia
>» What did the Macedonians think of themselves?
>» What did the rest of the Greeks think?
>http://truth.macedonia.gr/quotes.html#origin
>
>On the origin of the Macedonians
>
>The Greek origin of the Macedonians is proven by the
>vast majority of the ancient historians.
>Diodoros of Sicily talks about the links of Alexander
>to the Greek mythology (Diodoros, Historical Library
>17.1.5):
>
>\"On his father\'s side Alexander was a descendant of
>Heracles and on his mother\'s he could claim the blood
>of the Aeacids, so that from his ancestors on both
>sides he inherited the physical and moral qualities of
>greatness.\"
>Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of
>Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph
>22.1)
>
>\"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks,
>as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and
>will prove it in the later part of my history.That
>they are so has been already adjudged by those who
>manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. \"
>And later on (Book 8, paragraph 137.1) he verifies it:
>
>\"This Alexander was seventh in descent from
>Perdiccas, who got for himself the tyranny of
>Macedonia in the way that I will show. Three brothers
>of the lineage of Temenus came as banished men from
>Argos to Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropus and Perdiccas;
>and from Illyria they crossed over into the highlands
>of Macedonia till they came to the town Lebaea.\"
>Also in the very first book of his \"Histories\"
>(paragraph 56.3 ) Herodotus states about the origin of
>the the Greek people:
>
>\"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the
>land of Phthia, then the country called Histiaean,
>under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of
>Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the
>Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory
>called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to
>Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into the
>Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian.\"
>Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings\'
>origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):
>
>\"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia,
>was first acquired by Alexander, the father of
>Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from
>Argos.\"
>Aristotelis, the teacher of Alexander the Great says
>about the rivers in Macedonia (Meteorologika, Book I,
>Par. 13):
>
>\"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows
>from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the
>Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from
>Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope.\"
>Finally Isocratis states (To Philip, paragraph 32):
>
>\"Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled
>to as much consideration at your hands as are your own
>ancestors;\"
>
>On the language of the Macedonians
>
>The Macedonians spoke the Greek language as the
>ancient authors verify. The Roman writer Titus Livius
>says : (from \"The Foundation of the City\", Paragraph
>31)
>
>\"The Aitolians, the Akarnanians, the Macedonians, men
>of the same language, are united or disunited by
>trivial causes that arise from time to time; with
>aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks wage and will wage
>eternal war; for they are enemies by the will of
>nature, which is eternal, and not from reasons that
>change from day to day.\"
>Didorus of Sicily (17.67.1) says:
>
>\"After this Alexander left Dareius\'s mother, his
>daughters, and his son in Susa, providing them with
>persons to teach them the Greek language, and marching
>on with his army on the fourth day reached the Tigris
>River. \"
>
>On the religion of the Macedonians
>
>The Macedonians had the same religion as the rest of
>the Greeks, they worshiped the twelve Olympian Gods.
>
>Two quotes from Plutarch\'s \"Alexander\"
>
>\"Philip, after this vision, sent Chaeron of
>Megalopolis to consult the oracle of Apollo at Delphi,
>by which he was commanded to perform sacrifice, and
>henceforth pay particular honour, above all other
>gods, to Zeus;\"
>
>\"He [Alexander he Great] erected altars, also, to the
>gods, which the kings of the Praesians even in our
>time do honour to when they pass the river, and offer
>sacrifice upon them after the Greek manner.\"
>Diodoros of Sicily also makes clear that the
>Macedonnians worshiped the twelve Greek Gods:
>
>Histories, Chapter 16, 95.2
>
>\"Along with lavish display of every sort, Philip
>included in the procession statues of the twelve Gods
>brought with great artistry and adorned with a
>dazzling show of wealth to strike awe to the beholder,
>and along with these was conducted a thirteenth
>statue, suitable for a god, that of Philip himself, so
>that the king exhibited himself enthroned among the
>twelve Gods.\"
>Histories, Chapter 16, 91.5-6
>
>\"He (King Philip) wanted as many Greeks as possible
>to take part in the festivities in honour of the gods,
>and so planned brilliant musical contests and lavish
>banquets for his friends and guests. Out of all Greece
>he summoned his personal guest-friends and ordered the
>members of his court to bring along as many as they
>could of their acquaintances from abroad.\"
>
>On the culture of the Macedonians
>
>\"Alexandros observed that his soldiers were exhausted
>with their constant campaigns. ... The hooves of the
>horses had been worn thin by steady marching. The arms
>and armour were wearing out, and the Hellenic clothing
>was quite gone. They had to clothe themselves in
>materials of the barbarians,...\"
>(Diodoros of Sicily 17.94.1-2)
>
>On the geography of Macedonian
>
>The great philosopher Aristotelis (Aristotle)
>considers the rivers in Macedonias as \"rivers in the
>Greek world\"
>
>\"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows
>from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the
>Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from
>Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope. ...\"
>(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)
>and later on he says:
>
>\"The deluge in the time of Deucalion, for instance,
>took place chiefly in the Greek world and in it
>especially about ancient Hellas, the country about
>Dodona and the Achelous, a river which has often
>changed its course. Here the Selli dwelt and those who
>were formerly called Graeci and now Hellenes...\"
>(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)
>
>What did the Macedonians think of themselves?
>
>It is very clear from the surviving ancient sources
>that the Macedonians considered themselves to be
>Greeks.
>
>In Herodotus (Book 9, paragraph 45.2) Alexander I ,
>king of Macedonia says:
>
>\"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I
>would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for
>slavery ...\"
>Alexander III (the Great) talking to the king of the
>Persians says: (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II,14,4)
>
>\"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of
>Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them
>no prior injury [...] I have been appointed hegemon of
>the Greeks [...] \"
>Arrian (\"Alexander the Great\" 1,16,7) describes the
>following incident: After winning an important battle
>in Asia ...
>\"He [Alexander the Great] sent to Athens three
>hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in
>the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be
>attached: Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes,
>except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from
>the barbarians dwelling in Asia\"
>(Diodoros of Sicily 16.93.1)
>\"Every seat in the theater was taken when Philip
>appeared wearing a white cloak and by his express
>orders his bodyguard held away from him and followed
>only at a distance, since he wanted to show publicly
>that he was protected by the goodwill of all the
>Hellenes, and had no need of a guard of spearmen.\"
>
>And from Flavious Josephus (11.8.5) we have the
>following incident where Alexander clearly considers
>himself a Greek:
>
>\"And when the book of Daniel was showed to him
>(Alexander the Great) wherein Daniel declared that one
>of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the
>Persians, he supposed that himself was the person
>intended\"
>
>What did the rest of the Greeks think?
>
>The ancient Greek people alwayws considered the
>Macedonians to be Greek as well. This can be easily
>proved because the Macedonians were members of all the
>Greek institutions, such as the Delphic amphictiony:
>
>Pausanias writes in his book \"Description of Greece\"
>(10.3.3):
>
>\"The Phocians were deprived of their share in the
>Delphic sanctuary and in the Greek assembly, and their
>votes were given by the Amphictyons to the
>Macedonians.\"
>and also in his book \"Phokis\" (8,2 & 4):
>\"They say that these were the tribes collected by
>Amphiktyon himself in the Hellenic Assembly: [...] the
>Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race [...]
>In my day there were thirty members: six from each of
>Nikopolis, Macedonia and Thessaly [...] \"
>Aeschines (On the Embassy 2.32) gives evidence of the
>Macedonian king Amyntas taking part at the congress of
>the Lacedaemonian allies and the other Greeks:
>
>\"For at a congress of the Lacedaemonian allies and
>the other Greeks, in which Amyntas, the father of
>Philip, being entitled to a seat, was represented by a
>delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control,
>he joined the other Greeks in voting to help Athens to
>recover possession of Amphipolis. As proof of this I
>presented from the public records the resolution of
>the Greek congress and the names of those who voted\".
>Isocratis, one of the most impotant orators of ancient
>Greece says in his speach \"To Philip\" addressed to
>King Philip II of Macedonia (Paragaraph 127):
>
>\"Therefore, since the others are so lacking in
>spirit, I think it is opportune for you to head the
>war against the King; and, while it is only natural
>for the other descendants of Heracles, and for men who
>are under the bonds of their polities and laws, to
>cleave fondly to that state in which they happen to
>dwell, it is your privilege, as one who has been
>blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all
>Greece your fatherland, as did the founder of your
>race, and to be as ready to brave perils for her sake
>as for the things about which you are personally most
>concerned.\"
>The Sicilian historian Diodoros says in his history
>about King Philip of Macedonia (Diodoros, Historical
>Library 16.95.1-2)
>\"Such was the end of Philip, who had made himself the
>greatest of the kings in Europe in his time, and
>because of the extent of his kingdom had made himself
>a throned companion of the twelve gods. He had ruled
>twenty-four years. He is known to fame as one who with
>but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a
>throne won for himself the greatest empire in the
>Greek world, while the growth of his position was not
>due so much to his prowess in arms as to his
>adroitness and cordiality in diplomacy.
>Even the Persians considerd Macedonia a part of
>Greece! The Persian king Mardonius says : (From the
>Histories of Herodotus Book 7, Paragraph 9.1-2).
>
>\"We know the manner of their battle- we know how weak
>their power is; already have we subdued their children
>who dwell in our country, the Ionians, Aeolians, and
>Dorians. I myself have had experience of these men
>when I marched against them by the orders of thy
>father; and though I went as far as Macedonia, and
>came but a little short of reaching Athens itself, yet
>not a soul ventured to come out against me to battle.
>[...] Yet the Greeks are accustomed to wage wars, as I
>learn, and they do it most senselessly in their
>wrongheadedness and folly [...]. Since they speak the
>same language, they should end their disputes by means
>of heralds or messengers, or by any way rather than
>fighting; if they must make war upon each other, they
>should each discover where they are in the strongest
>position and make the attempt there. The Greek custom,
>then, is not good; and when I marched as far as the
>land of Macedonia, it had not come into their minds to
>fight.\"
>Mardonius marched against the Greeks and he \"went as
>far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of
>reaching Athens itself\". Obviously he considers
>Macedonia a part of Greece!
>
>Related links
>
>How the Slavic propaganda exploits the ancient sources
>to dispute the Greek identity of the ancient
>Macedonians.
>http://truth.macedonia.gr/distortion.html
>What do today\'s scholars say about the identity of
>the ancient Macedonians?
>http://truth.macedonia.gr/scholars.html
>
>[ © Real Macedonia 2001
>
>© Real Macedonia 2001
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your
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>
>FROM: \"vmro-mnm\" vmro-mnm@vmro-mnm.com | Save Address
>DATE: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:54:43 +0200
>TO: \"G-din. Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet\"
>trepet@vmro-mnm.com
>SUBJECT: Prokleti Makedonski izrodi-predavnichki //
>http://www.president.gov.mk/eng/makedonija.htm
>
>REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA
>
>Documents:
>
>plural elections
>declaration of sovereignity
>referendum
>constitution
>declaration of international recognition
>adhesion of the Republic of Macedonia to the UN
>integration in the European Union
>Symbols
>
>The Republic of Macedonia was established as an
>outcome of the century-long struggle of the Macedonian
>people for national liberation and for a state of its
>own.
>The beginnings of the statehood of the Macedonian
>Slavs go back to the end of the 10th century and
>beginning of the 11th, with the creation of Samoil\'s
>state.
>After the fall of Samoil\'s kingdom, during the
>centuries-long slavery, the wish for a state of its
>own never extinguished. This is proved by many
>uprisings against foreign rulers. In the more recent
>history, during the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans and
>in Macedonia occurred the most well-known national
>liberation uprisings, the Karpos uprising in 1689, the
>Kresna and Razlovci uprisings in 1878.
>The foundations of the modern Macedonian state were
>established during the Ilinden uprising in 1903, with
>the proclamation of the Krusevo Republic (in the town
>of Krusevo), as the first Republic on the Balkans.
>Nikola Karev was declared first president of the first
>Macedonian Republic.
>Less than a decade after the Ilinden uprising was
>violently quelled, Macedonian and the Macedonian
>people undergo some of the most tragic times of their
>history. After the Balkan wars in 1912 and 1913
>Macedonia was divided among the neighboring Balkan
>countries whereas the Macedonian people are subjected
>to denationalization, assimilation and genocide. The
>contemporary Republic of Macedonia is situated on the
>territory that became part of Serbia after the Balkan
>wars. (later within Yugoslavia).
>In the course of the Second World War, in August 2,
>(on the Ilinden Day) in 1944, the First Session of
>then Anti Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation
>(ASNOM) was held in the Monastery of St. Prohor of
>Pcinja. At this session, the foundations of the modern
>Republic of Macedonia were established, as a member of
>the Democratic Yugoslav Federation.
>
>The first Macedonian Constitution adopted on December
>31, 1946, declares the People\'s Republic of Macedonia
>as a state - a constitutive member of the Yugoslav
>Federation. In accordance with the Constitution of
>April 7, 1963, it was named as Socialist Republic of
>Macedonia and remained such until June 7,1991 when the
>Assembly passed a constitutional amendment deleting
>the designation \"Socialist\" from the state\'s name,
>establishing its present name - Republic of Macedonia.
>
>PLURAL ELECTIONS
>
>In accordance with the new Law on Elections and the
>new Law on Political Organization of Citizens, first
>democratic plural elections were held on November 11,
>1990.
>
>DECLARATION ON SOVEREIGNTY
>
>In January 25, 1991, the new multi party Assembly
>adopted the Declaration on Sovereignty of the
>Republic, which, among other things, defines the
>Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign state, which
>decides independently about its future relations with
>the states of the other peoples of Yugoslavia, in
>accordance with its own interests,
>
>REFERENDUM
>
>After the dissolution of the Socialist Federative
>Republic of Yugoslavia, to which pertained the
>Republic of Macedonia, the Assembly of the Republic of
>Macedonia proclaims a referendum on which the citizens
>had to decide for a secession from the Yugoslav
>federation and for the proclamation of an independent
>Republic of Macedonia.
>
>At the referendum held on September 8, 1991, more than
>90% of the citizens that voted were in favor of a
>sovereign and independent Republic of Macedonia.
>
>Based upon the results of the referendum, the Assembly
>of the Republic of Macedonia, in September 17, 1991,
>adopted a Declaration on Independence. The Declaration
>states that the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign
>and independent state will strive for consistent
>observance of the generally accepted principles of the
>international relations contained in the Charter and
>other documents of the United Nations Organization,
>the CSCE Final Act from Helsinki and the CSCE Paris
>Charter, and that this will be the basis of its
>international relations.
>
>THE CONSTITUTION
>
>In November 17, 1991, the Assembly of the Republic of
>Macedonia adopted and proclaimed the new Constitution
>of the Republic of Macedonia, which confirmed the
>state\'s name, and the Republic of Macedonia was
>defined as a sovereign, independent, democratic and
>welfare state. The sovereignty derives from the
>citizens and belongs to them. The Republic of
>Macedonia is organized in accordance with the
>principles of modern democratic and parliamentary
>states. The Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia
>follows the principles of a democratic political
>system and there is a multiparty parliamentary system.
>
>DECLARARTION ON INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION
>
>In December 19, 1991, the Assembly of the Republic of
>Macedonia adopted a Declaration on the International
>Recognition of the Republic of Macedonia as a
>Sovereign and Independent State.
>
>ADHESION OF THE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA TO THE UN
>
>The Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia in July 29,
>1992, passed a decision on the membership of the
>Republic of Macedonia in the United Nations
>Organization as a sovereign and independent state.
>Shortly after that, the President of the Republic of
>Macedonia submitted a formal application for admission
>of the Republic of Macedonia as a member of the UN.
>The Republic of Macedonia was accepted as member of
>the UN in April 8, 1993. The Republic of Macedonia has
>accepted the Declaration and other UN documents, the
>principals of the modern international relations and
>the existing standards within the international law.
>
>INTEGRATION IN THE EUROPEAN UNION
>
>One of the strategic orientations of the Republic of
>Macedonia as a state and of its citizens is the
>integration in the family of European nations, where
>we belong both geographically and from a civilizing
>point of view.
>As a result of the democratic processes in the state
>and of its contribution to the stability and peace in
>the region, the Republic of Macedonia has done its
>first step to a full integration in the European Union
>and in Euro Atlantic structures, by signing the
>Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU on
>April 6, 2001.
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