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Date Posted: Fri, Jun 01, 08:52:28pm CST
Author: lepcur
Author Host/IP: 65-174-1-161.du.volcano.net / 65.174.1.161
Subject: Re: Poll #1
In reply to: Dan McDonough 's message, "Re: Poll #1" on Wed, May 30, 02:09:14pm CST

>>>>>>>I will preface this question with a quote from
>the
>>>>>>>yearbook. Under "Breeding Information" the first
>>>>>>>paragraph reads: "The breeding of the American
>>>>>>>Leopard Cur presents a greater challenge than any
>>>>>>>animal alive. The reason the American Leopard
>Cur
>>>>>>>breed is of the quality it is today is because
>old
>>>>>>>time breeders discovered that to try to produce a
>>>>>>>ridgid color standard is to destroy ability,
>which
>>>>>>>should be the prime concern of the breeder and
>>>>buyer,
>>
>>
>>>>>>>not looks."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With that said, my question to you is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should the black pups comming out of the Jug
>>bred
>>>>>>>dogs be registered?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Understand that these are the pups that are all
>>>>>black
>>>>>>>for those of you who are not farmiliar with
>them.
>>>>>>>They are not pups that have any tan, brindle or
>>any
>>>>>>>other color of trim. They do however, more often
>>>>>than
>>>>>>>not, have some small amount of white points on
>>>>them.
>>>>>>>The white most typically appears as a small white
>>>>>>>patch on the chest and possibley some white toes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please respond by giving a yes or no answer and
>>>>>feel
>>>>>>>free to qualify that answer if you like.
>>Remember,
>>>>>>>this is an informal poll and at this point, has
>no
>>>>>>>official weight.
>>>>>>I say no, and it doesnt have to do with color so
>>>much
>>>>>>as with the breeding, if the dog/pups are not 100%
>>>>>>lepard they should NOT be registered period. Just
>>>my
>>>>>>2 cents worth. mike
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike, what would you do with the pups out of single
>>>>>registered dogs?
>>>>
>>>>Dan, The pups out of single registered dogs can be
>>>>hunted just like any that have good honest papers.
>>The
>>>>registration papers on a dog do not mean that much
>to
>>>>most hunters anyway. Unless you are breeding and
>>>>selling puppies to the public, papers aren't
>>>>important! Most of the people who hunt these dogs
>are
>>>>not competition hunters and there are no hunts
>>>>sponsored by the Registry anyway, so, really, what
>>>>good are papers. If you had pups out of non
>>registered
>>>>dogs or registered dogs and didn't want to keep
>them,
>>>>just give them away, hunt them or put them down.
>>>>Hunters have always culled their dogs and that has
>to
>>>>keep happening if you are striving for a certain
>type
>>>>of hunting dog. If you don't know what to do with
>>>>pups, DON'T LET THEM GET BRED! Dan N
>>>
>>>I've read your response about six times now and I am
>>>still not entirely sure what you were trying to say
>to
>>>me. I already understand that pups out of single
>>>registered dogs are just like any other lep as far as
>>>the rules apply. As for the papers meaning anything,
>>>the great majority of people who call me for a pup or
>>>started dog of any type (I have one walker and a
>>>couple of jagdterriers also) want a set of papers.
>>>Very, very few would not call me back if I did not
>>>give them their papers on a dog they bought. Also, I
>>>have no idea what the registry should have to do with
>>>putting on hunts. There are plenty of hunts put on
>by
>>>PKC, UKC, NKC, WTDA, etc... I think that people
>>>forget that the ALCBA is just that. It is a breeders
>>>association pure and simple. If you don't want to
>>>breed and promote those things that further better
>>>breeding, you don't have to join. No one is making
>>>people join. I have more to say on that but I will
>>>make a new post at a later time. As for breeding on
>>>purpose or by accident, that's where you really lost
>>>me. Thanks for your resonse, I would like to see all
>>>of the officers come on here from time to time. Take
>>>care, Dan McD.
>>
>>Sorry you couldn't understand my post, I thought it
>>answered your question thoroughly and I just added a
>>few things while I was sending my reply. I wanted to
>>put on here that I just couldn't type any slower, but
>>my wife thought I was sounding like a smart@$$ and of
>>course I listened to her and changed it. If all these
>>other registries sponsor hunts and come up with show
>>champions and nite champions then explain to me why
>>the alcba does not. The little world and world
>>champions of the American Leopard Cur Association,
>>INC. are champions of the association not the
>>registry. Please remember that the association and
>>registry are two different entitys. I am sure some
>>people are not aware or just don't remember that they
>>are not the same organization. I am not pushing for
>>the alcba registry to sponsor hunts or come up with
>>titles for our dogs because I hardly ever hunt in
>>competition any more, but some of the other members
>>may be interested in some kind of a program sponsored
>>by the registry.
>>I thought you question to Mike was "what do you do
>>with pups out of single registed dogs".
>>What I am saying, is if you don't want pups out of
>>single registered dogs, don't breed to one. I don't
>>know of a single registered dog in the leopard breed
>>that is still living anyway. There could be a few, but
>>I don't know of one. Just a few percent of the people
>>that hunt these leopard dogs are breeders, most just
>>like to hunt their dogs. Dan N
>
>Typing Slower would have been much funnier:). I got
>you now. The question to Mike was retorical. It
>seemed to me that only having dogs that are 100% lep.
>would be near impossible to maintain over the long
>term and keep the quality of dog that we have. I just
>wanted to get Mike to reconsider his statement. As
>for the separation of assoc. and reg., it states in
>Article II (Objects and Purpose) of the ALCBA INC.
>bylaws that, "The Corporation shall be organized and
>at all times operated exclusively for the promotion
>and improvement of the American Leopard Cur Breed of
>dog and to promote a friendly and harmonious
>relationship amoung, and the pleasure and recreation
>of, owners, breeders, and fanciers of the American
>Leopard Cur Breed." This portion of the bylaws is
>pretty self explanitory and should be thought of
>often. The next part of interest to our recent
>developements is also in Article II and it reads,
>"...the Corporation shall endeavor to: 1) Deal with
>the UKC and the ALCBA Registration Office with
>reguards to matters of the Leopard Cur Breed standard
>and registration." This clearly states again, the
>separation of the three entities, however it also
>infers that the Corp. does not have control over the
>breed standard. Which is only logical as the registry
>is the only entity to have the ability to reject a dog
>or add it to the registry. That only makes good sense
>as any pedigree is worthless unless it is backed up by
>a complete set of historical data (or at least the
>most comlete set of data). To put that power in any
>other hands would either be "breed suicide" or of no
>consiquence as the core value of the registry is in
>its information and, any outside entity does not have
>legal interest in the information. Notice I only said
>"legal interest". Next, backing up a bit, in the same
>article, "The members of this Corporation are uniting
>to, among other things, promote Leopard Curs through
>bench shows, raccoon, squirrel and other hunts,
>treeing contest, water races and other field trials
>and events sponsored by the Corporation." It is rather
>obvious that the gaming department is held and
>overseen by the Corporation. We all knew this and I'm
>just stating this as a reminder. No one that I know
>expects events for Leopard Curs to come from anywhere
>other than the ALCBA INC. The next thing that comes
>to mind is out of Article III (Affiliation) and reads,
>"...The Corporation will aslo be affiliated with the
>ALCBA Registration Office. But the Corporation shall
>be maintained and operated separately and apart form
>the UKC and the ALCBA Registration Office." Yes, they
>are separate but they are affiliated. Let's not
>forget that while we all remind ourselves again of the
>first sentence in Article II. It seems as though
>there is a line in the sand and on one side lies the
>assoc. and on the other lies the reg. office. Folks
>are expected to stand on whichever side of the line
>they are to claim when the real fight breaks out. So
>far there is a lot of posturing but nothing is written
>in stone...yet. Well, I would like to see more of
>"the promotion of friendly and harmonious
>relationships" before there is even a scratch in the
>stone. This is turning into a post for all and I am
>most certainly not pointing all of this to you Dan
>though I do get the impression that you have picked a
>side. I could be wrong. Also, I don't want my
>sticking up for the role of the registry to be
>mistaken as my pick of sides. It is just right and
>that is the side I will always endeavor to be on. I
>believe that the final surveys should be on their way
>to Jed. There will be plenty of time to make all of
>our points heard on any issues that may come up but it
>seems as though it is a little premature to jump ahead
>of the survey and make a move, at least that is, if we
>are trying to promote anything good. Well, this ended
>up turning into a surmon so I'll cut out here. Take
>care, Dan McD. Man, i just got back in town and it seems ive stirred the pot a little with my commrnt on the poll, Dan , as far as the pups from single reg. dogs i would not reg. them IF they are not all lepard as we know them, in other words if ya want to mix the lepard and hound blood its okay w/ me,just dont try to reg. them as full lepard. One day a youngster may think hes getting a lep. but may end up with a mutt. Dan n. i think ya should study nimrod a little more , him and his littermates were running a jackrabbit not a fox and what makes ya think that richard bread him to a black&tan? If ya want to try a jug pup thats ok but it wont be a lepard so why reg. it as one. Is all im trying to say is i love the dogs as lepards and id hate to see them messed up with hound blood. the reason i switched from hounds waS TO GET A BETTER BEAR DOG THAN I HAD,iv been bear hunting theese leps. for about 13 yrs. now and my breedings have just kept getting better all the while so ya cant tell me that ya gotta go outside to maintain or better the breed. njust my 2 cents worth. mike

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