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Date Posted: 10:40:12 05/31/03 Sat
Author: Kidron
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
In reply to: Harold 's message, "Homosexuality" on 21:11:00 05/30/03 Fri

>Homosexuality is going to be a hot topic for a long
>time to come, so we might as well get used to seeing
>the discussions.

I don't think that there ever will be the kind of proof that many feel will 'solve the problem'. The reason being that there is no single factor that results in a person becoming
homosexual.

Sexuality is a complex part of each of our personalities. It is influenced by our genetic predisposition, by the gestation period of our physical development, by our social
interactions within our families and the larger interactions with society. While we can see genetic trends, hormonal influences, and social conditioning, the final arbiter of sexuality is in the brain. It is this factor where we have the biggest problem in providing "hard science" for we now enter the realm of personal freedom of choice.

To conduct experiments on human beings is unthinkable to most of us. And therefore in the area of human behaviour we can at best try to gather data from a population which is
'uncontrolled'. We can screen for certain genetic traits, but have no control over how this specific group fared during their mother's pregnancy or even later in their everyday social conditioning. The same is true of all the other factors. Therefore we are left with tentative 'proofs' and always with those who seem exceptions to the general finding.

I am convinced that there are some people who have all the basic influences weighted to being heterosexual, and yet they make a personal choice to live as a homosexual. I am
equally convinced that there are some people who are genuinely influenced by all these factors and their homosexuality is as inherent to their personality as heterosexuality is to you or me. They certainly still have a choice, but the choice to live as heterosexual is asunthinkable to them as to live homosexually is to me.

While there are those who insist that ALL homosexuality is biologically determined, there are the others who insist that ALL homosexuality is by choice. Both groups are wrong.

Once one realizes the amazing complexity of human sexuality and the many factors (many of which we are totally oblivious) that influence each of us, then it becomes very obvious that some homosexuals can be "cured" and many cannot. It is out of ignorance that those who offer their clinics and retreats to cure homosexuality, point to their few successes as "proof" of their claims that homosexuality is a sinful choice. It is equally out of ignorance that some deny that "cures" are possible.

For myself, I would question whether "cures" are even needed. It makes little difference whether a person was born to be homosexual, or makes a free choice to be homosexual.
The prime importance is in how their sexuality will be used to build a permanent bond as they meet someone with whom they will form family and spend the rest of their lives loving, honoring and supporting each other.


New_man, you had posted previously suggesting that some of your problems were the result of advice given by an elder in the church many years ago, for you to "find your sexuality". From your posts, it appears that you are taking that advice and I wish you every success.

I would like to post some comments on human sexuality that might help in your search and might be germane to others who are interesting in this topic.

There is no single factor that results in a person being or becoming homosexual.

Sexuality is a complex part of each of our personalities. It is influenced by genetic predisposition, by the gestation period of our physical development, by our social interactions within our families and the larger interactions with society.

While we can see genetic trends, hormonal influences, and social conditioning, the final arbiter of sexuality is in the brain. It is this factor where we have the biggest problem in providing "hard science" for we now enter the realm of personal freedom of choice.

To conduct experiments on human beings is unthinkable to most of us. And therefore in the area of human behaviour we can at best try to gather data from a population which is 'uncontrolled'. We can study selected individuals of the population with certain genetic traits, but have no control over how this specific group fared during their mother's pregnancy or even later in their everyday social conditioning.

The same is true of all the other factors. Therefore we are left with tentative 'hypotheses' and always with those who seem exceptions to the general finding.

I am convinced that there are some people who have all the basic influences weighted to being heterosexual, and yet they make a personal choice to live as a homosexual.

I am equally convinced that there are some people who are influenced by all these factors and their homosexuality is as inherent to their personality as heterosexuality is to me. They certainly still have a choice, but the choice to live as a heterosexual is as unthinkable to them as to live as a homosexual is to me.

While there are those who insist that ALL homosexuality is biologically determined, there are the others who insist that ALL homosexuality is by choice.

Both groups are wrong.

Once one realizes the amazing complexity of human sexuality and the many factors (many
of which we are totally oblivious as we individually grow up) that influence each of us, then it becomes very obvious that some homosexuals can be "cured" and many cannot. I believer that it is out of ignorance that those who offer their clinics and retreats to cure homosexuality, point to their few successes as "proof" of their claims that all homosexuality is a sinful choice.

It is equally out of ignorance that some deny that "cures" are possible.

For myself, I would question whether "cures" are even needed.

It makes little difference whether a person was born to be homosexual, or makes a free choice to be homosexual. The prime importance is in how your sexuality will be used. Used responsibly and with wisdom it can help build a permanent bond as you meet someone with whom you will form family and spend the rest of your life, as you love, honor and support each other.

I believe that the church should speak to ALL with one voice. Your sexuality is a God given gift. It is to be a blessing and not a burden. It is to be an important part of the bond that two people will form in a lifetime commitment to each other. For this reason it is not something shared lightly with others ever. Chastity before that lifetime commitment and fidelity thereafter.

We should not be fussing about ordination of homosexuals, we should be talking about accepting permanent same sex relationships. We have a name and ceremony for those of opposite genders, marriage and wedding. We still need the name and ceremony for same sex couples.

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