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Concerned Anglers
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Date Posted: 11:03:04 04/16/01 Mon
Dear Ken, Les, Fran and Dan,
I was recently informed that the State of New York was considering a law which would set a maximum length of 4 feet for fishing
leaders. This law doesn't make alot of sense to me and I do not support its enaction. As an avid fisherman who is a proponent of catch
and release fishing and protection of our fresh water resources I am in favor of rules with legitimate aims. However this rule will not
benefit the fish and would be an irrational hindrance to responsible fisherpersons. There are certain water conditions when a longer
leader is necessary. I don't understand the rationale to resticting time tested strategies to catching fish. One is not cheating with a longer
leader but adapting to specific conditions. What is the point of trying to make fishing less enjoyable. Is this law aimed at eliminating ethical
means of catching fish and possibly discouraging persons from enjoying the simple pleasures of angling? Please join me in recognizing the
limitations of a 4 foot leader law. I urge each of you not to pass this law. Thank you for your time. Please do the right thing.
Sincerely,
John
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Hello Randy and thanks for the note! I immediately sent off an email of protest. This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.
Someone has way too much time on their hands.
Here is a copy of the note I sent:
I am writing this email in protest of the proposed 4' leader regulation. After being informed of this proposed regulation my opinion is that
someone has way too much time on their hands and could do much better than waste time and resources on this type of initiative. As
someone that travels to the Salmon River and spends approximately $1500 during those trips, I can assure you the only way left for me to
protest will be to take those dollars spent on guides, hotels, meals, etc., and the associated tax and fishing license revenue and go to
another state with more realistic fishing regulations.
Mark
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Randy,
I would be more than happy to join you in your crusade against the 4 foot leader law as I agree with your points on how it would preclude
us from successfully fishing these affected areas. I will indeed send a message to the parties mentioned in your email. I will also see to it
that I forward this message to any fellow anglers.
Thank you for informing me on these important issues.
Mike
----------------------
Hello Ken, Les, Fran, and Dan
My name is Ray Ellis and I am the owner of Ray's Guide
Service here in Pulaski, NY. I am writing to express my very strong
opposition to the purposed 4 foot leader law. There are many of us here who
work daily teaching both the experienced angler and the novice how to fish
both ethically and morally. Because of the actions of a few bandits or
unethical individuals you want us all to pay a price. By enacting such a law
you will be excluding myself and my clients from fishing many spots in the
river. As has already been stated by my friend and fellow guide Randy Jones
one issue that what not brought up by your expert panel during the
discussions of such a law is the fact of a fishes visual cone in slow moving
deep water such as the sportsmen's, school house and other's. As an
experienced fishermen with over 40ys of experience fishing from Alaska to the
southern tip of Florida and every place in-between I have found that with
different conditions you need to use different tactics to fool your prey. The
size and length of your leader would depend on many factors such as water
levels, light conditions, how educated the fish are, and how much pressure
they are under. By making a law that say's one size fits all is wrong. Do you
really believe that by making such a law you are going to stop the law
breakers absolutely not. In the past we have seen the effect of legislation
to go after the law breaker. You made a very good law doing away with
snagging and what did we get someone figured out hey we can use floating
plugs so what came about the snagging lure of the 90's the J-plug, we had
exaggerated rod manipulation law's enforced the first year hardly enforced
now. So now we get lets go after the those few unethical people who use long
leaders wrongly by punishing the majority. This is not good law. I hope you
will use more thought before enacting such legislation.
Sincerely, Ray Ellis
----------------
Dear Gentlemen,
I am writing in response to the recent developments regarding a possible maximum leader length for fishing the Salmon River fisheries.
Please count me as one who will
oppose any such regulation. If the fishery is truly in your best interest, then shouldn’t the consideration be for a minimum leader length of 4
feet. By shortening the leader
length are you not opening the door for more illegal snagging? From experience, I know that by moving the weight closer to the fly create
the opportunity for a more direct placement of the hook in the location of the fish, thus allowing for increased opportunity to snag a fish.
Snagging is the evil that is deteriorating the fine fishery that you as leaders have built. Please fully consider the impact on the fishery
before making such a broad sweeping regulation.
Steven
-----------------
I am writing you to discourage you from enacting a 4 foot leader law. There are many anglers, including myself that fish with leaders over
4 foot long because the fishing conditions warrant this type of presentation in many areas where I (we) fish. There are several areas of
the Salmon River in particular that the water
is slow and very clear. Fish that lay in these holes generally have been educated by the time that they have reached these areas in the
middle and upper river. The only way to catch these fish and not to spook them is to fish a longer, (6-8 foot) lighter leader to egg sack or
fly. A 4 foot leader law would prohibit me from fishing many of these slow clear areas and thereby force me to either fish only fast
water or slower water down closer to the estuary.
I am a resident of New Jersey and visit the Salmon River several times every year to fish for Steelhead, Browns, and Salmon. I release
all fish I catch, never litter, snag, or crowd other fisherman. I treat all the areas (and anglers) I fish with with respect. Please show the
anglers that fish the Salmon River and other flows in NY the same respect by allowing us to determine the length of the leader we choose
to fish based on what the river and fishing conditions dictate.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
John
-----------------
Gentlemen:
I assume the purpose of this law is to eliminate (or reduce) the practice of "lining" fish. No one can dispute the fact that longer leaders
are necessary under some fishing conditions, just as no one can dispute that the technique is bound to be abused by some. The question
then becomes whether the technique is so abused by unethical fisherman that it requires regulation. That question can only be answered
by observation, and I'm sure you all have done your best to determine whether this technique is being abused to a fault.
I guess my query would be as to enforcement - the only way to enforce these restrictions is through an increased DEC presence on the
river - as the only ones who will voluntarily obey new restrictions are ethical anglers. It seems to me that same increased DEC presence
could just as easily enforce existing regulations, thereby obviating the need for the administrative quagmire likely to result from further
legislation or regulation.
Bottom line: there's an awful lot of stuff out there governing how an ethical fisherman fishes to a fish. Not sure more verbiage would
help. Example: I was fishing last winter with a dual sz. 16 globug combo separate by 4" of tippet. The guy next to me told me I was
fishing illegally. Had no idea. Am I as morally culpable as the bridge trolls at Russel Station who wound/kill dozens of fish a day? Why
penalize me and others like me? Why not just put more bodies in the field? I heard the state respond to reduced creel limit proposals by
saying that the fishery meant too much to tourism, and that we (NY) did not want to give people a reason not to come. If its that
important, give us more bodies, not more rules. Pretty soon, going fishing will be more complicated than doing my taxes!
There's a lot of obvious stuff that goes on that the State should be able to address without more regulation, i.e., is there really any need for
anyone to crank a J-plug across the river? Maybe 1 in 100 legitimate anglers fish that way, if that. Same with hook sizes - no legitimate
reason anyone should lace up a 2/0 stainless steel ocean hook. Therefore, we regulate gap width.
I can't imagine this technique at issue so abused that it requires the State to stick its foot in the door. And it is a legitimate practice -
fishing with Randy Jones this winter, I hooked 7 and landed 3 fish using flies on a day when even the guys bouncing berries along the
bottom were coming up empty (285 cfs - low and crystal clear!). Each of those fish was hooked on a 48"+ leader, and each fish hit the
fly, and was hooked on the inside of the mouth. (I had read some of the other guide's cowardly attacks on Randy on the internet, claiming
he lined fish just to get clients into fish, so I checked to make sure. While I'm sure it is possible to line a fish using the technique at issue, it
did not happen while I was fishing.)
I would note that further regulation should be a last resort. Guys fishing centerpin reels can hook 30+ fish a day, increasing mortality rates
dramatically. Should that practice be banned? Of course not. This isn't like bait shooting a deer. Just my two cents.
Feel free to respond. Thanks for your time.
Andy
---------
Randy,
As a TU Chapter President, and fellow angler and fly fisherman, I hole
heartly agree with the point of view you have taken with regard to
this issue. You have shed so new light to an old issue that's seems to
plague the DEC for the ages. I can't believe that they haven't thought
of it with their "vast" scientific knowledge?
I too am opposed to this proposed regulation change, as it first
defies logic as your position is a stronger agruement for having
longer leaders. Next, I view this proposed regulation change as what I
call DEC's attempt at providing regulation, without enforcement. By
this I mean you cut down on the leader length, you cut down on the
need for having the presence of CO's on the stream to enfore ethical
fishing. Next, the DEC solution is targeted towards salmon fishing,
not all angling on the river system. I have a bone to pick with them
in regards to that...and that is what are they doing about the J-Plug
issue. Shouldn't they be outlawed from use in the river. I spend
copious amounts of time on the river, and in all my time spent in the
upper sections of the river, I have never seen ANY fish caught legally
with a J-Plug. To me allowing that is the same as saying it's ok to
snag, and after all, isn't that the position that we are trying to get
away from? Finally, I have a question for them...and that is why are
you trying to control the leader length on the Salmon River, but not
in any other river system in New York State? Again it doesn't seem to
make sense....I have another saying for that...remember the Boston Tea
Party....what started that ... taxation without representation. Isn't
this a form of that?
I will share your letter with my general membership this coming week,
and ask that they send letters to the DEC regarding what I call a
regulation that defies logic, and an inconsistant approach to
regulation, where none other that the elimination of J-Plugs is
needed.
Thanks for listening. I'll get off my soap box now, but I wanted to
say that I agree with you and you have my support. Also, if you would
like to use any of my observations above, please feel free to. Lastly,
I wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your "Fishing Reports",
as they keep me well informed.
Sincerely,
Russ Mosher
President, Al Hazzard Chapter of TU
--------------------
I am contacting you to support Randy Jones' opposition to the proposed 4'
leader regulation. As he writes;
"Slow, deep, clear water, educated fish and a longer drift equals a
longer leader (6-8 feet) and also a smaller diameter leader. In this
equation the fish's visual cone is so large that weight and main line become
a critical factor and need to be disguised.
I feel a 4 foot leader law would unjustly preclude myself and many other
moral and ethical anglers from fishing these areas. The fish's visual
cone would be so large that a 4 foot leader with main line and weight in
plan view would negate a positive reaction to our fly or bait.
I feel a 4 foot leader law would be unfair and unjust to all ethical
anglers."
It's hard enough for me to catch these fish as it is- restricting our
options by introducing this short-sighted regulation would only serve to
lessen my chances, and would have a definite influence on my decision
whether to return to this area with my recreational $$$
thx., Fred
-----------------------
Thanks for the info. I don't like laws that punish honest people for the
sake of deterring bad behavior by the minority. I agree with you. I sent e-mail
to the 4 people stating my opposition..
Bob
----------
Gentleman, I wanted to voice my opinion about the 4-foot maximum leader law
you are currently considering. First, let me tell you that I'm not a guide
or business man that stands to gain anything other than a better fishing
experience. I have been fishing for salmon and steelhead for 20 years and
found that the best legal fishing I've encountered has been on leader
lengths from 6-8 feet. Since I have increased my leader length I've caught
more fish, legally, then ever. I think most fisherman that do fish, not
snag, will tell you this. I don't think any law will preclude inadvertent
(or purposeful) foul hooking of fish.
Fishing the Salmon and Oswego rivers the last 4 years have been wonderful
because of some excellent changes to regulations and the enforcement of
those regulations, but I feel I must ask you to consider not enacting this
one.
Frankly gentlemen, it's hard enough for us non-experts to catch these
species of fish in these waters. Enacting this law will, in my humble
opinion, make it near impossible for us weekenders.
If anything, I think you should re-introduce the minimum 2 foot leader
length to keep snagging down.
I'm all for regulations that reduce unfair or illegal fishing but this seems
extreme.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter from a concerned fisherman.
Thanks
John
--------------
Randy,
Thanks for the heads up on the propsed "leader law". Am going to be
fishing the Salmon River this coming week-end. Will contact the NY Fish and
Game people and register my written protest.
Regards,
Gil
-------------
If you would all please help me, show support against the possible 4 foot leader law, email or call all of the below:
Regional Director
Ken Lynch 315-426-7403 kplynch@gw.dec.state.ny.us
Les Wedge 607-753-3095 Ex 212 lrwedge@gw.dec.state.ny.us
Fran Verdoliva 315-298-7605 fjverdol@gw.dec.state.ny.us
Dan Bishop 607-753-3095 Ex 203 dlbishop@gw.dec.state.ny.us
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