Author:
Kevin Joseph Tull
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Date Posted: 17:47:57 11/13/02 Wed
In reply to:
JohnE
's message, "Religious Libertarian?" on 11:51:07 11/12/02 Tue
In answer to the first question they might *feel* compelled by the fact it is their choice to express their religion regardless of the Libertarian Platform.They might *be* compelled if they know a reincarnation of the Spanish Inquisition is reading their posts to this site.
In answer to the second question, No. The part of the first amendment that prohibits government from reconizing or prohibiting religion would be irrelevant if religion was irrelevant.
In answer to your third question yes, and again I scream YES.
Here's an example of a post and the responses it recieved at a site called (LIbertarian) at YahooGroups. You should be proud of the Christian Libertarians responses to this first posts appeal to Libertarians. I was really impressed with the post from that Deacon at that church in Raytown, Mo.;-)(see below)
From: "christian_lobby"
Reply-To: Libertarian@yahoogroups.com
To: Libertarian@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Libertarian] Save the Pledge of Allegiance and our National Motto
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:58:03 -0000
Sign the petition supporting a Constitutional Amendment to protect
the Pledge of Allegiance and our National Motto "In God We Trust."
http://www.wepledge.com
This proposed Constitutional Amendment is sponsored in the House
(H.J. Res 108) by Rep. Chip Pickering and in the Senate (S.J. Res 43)
by Senator Trent Lott. It will protect our Pledge of Allegiance and
national motto, and will prohibit judges from declaring them illegal.
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a really stupid idea. Amend the constitution for a specific case like this? Better to kick the judge out of office that rules this way if you are so inclined. That would solve a lot more problems all at once.
SS
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kick out judges for making unpopular, though correct, rulings? Not in the federal courts, you don't. There's a good reason for lifetime tenure on the bench - because without it, judges would be swayed to rule in accordance with popular opinion rather than the law. Many would argue that this is the primary problem with electing state judges, and that if state judges were given lifetime tenure, there would be fewer of the kinds of abuses that have been documented in Texas over the past few years.
DWS
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is my first post to this list and I have been reading a lot of good
stuff here for some time, unfortunately the comments from "Christian
lobby" are not among them and they struck a nerve with me. Consider this
my small contribution to the Libertarian list and I hope it will help
other Christians who consider themselves Libertarians as well, to watch
out for this kind of insidious and rotten appeal to their faith.
I agree with Mr. Smith III, that this is a stupid idea. I don't mind
anyone, including far right-wing conservatives, in the Libertarian Party.
Much of what they propose I agree with and advocate, but to try to
encourage Libertarians and those persons who actually believe in the
Constitution as the highest law in the land, to be used to promote their
personal religious beliefs then it is clear that you have not read or
understood the very document that you propose to change.
It is a clear violation of the Constitution for the statement "Under God"
to be included in the pledge, regardless of the other difficulties I have
with the idea that children are forced to swear an oath to God and
government in government institutions of learning, further it is again a
continuing violation of the Constitution to retain the national motto "In
God We Trust". I trust in God, and the Constitution protects, as law, my
right to do so as well as protecting by law the right of others to be
free from their government respecting the establishment of my religion or
prohibiting my right to freely exercise it.
By the way, who are you Mr./Ms. Christian lobby? I would like to know the
name of the person who is so clueless. I and other people would like to
know the name of someone who proposes Libertarians desert their
principles because you are a Christian who believes in using the force of
government, in opposition to the established law, to promote your
religious beliefs.
I am a Christian and I would never try to encourage any Libertarian, or
anyone else, to promote my faith through government. It's wrong and it's
against the law.
Below I have posted the sections of the Constitution, that which, if read
by you and understood should leave no doubt in your mind as to the wrong
you are proposing. Are you a Libertarian and a Christian, or are you so
zealous that you would completely ignore the law as well as the
philosophy of the Libertarian Party to push your own agenda? When you
figure it out please let us know.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the
several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both
of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or
Affirmation, to support this Constitution; **but no religious Test shall
ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under
the United States.** US Constitution, Article. VI.(Last Paragraph) (**are mine for emphasis)
Congress shall make no law **respecting an establishment of religion**,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. US
Constitution, Amendment I (** are mine for emphasis)
Kevin Joseph Tull,
thejclib2@juno.com,
Chairman, Jackson County Libertarian Party
Editor, Show Me Freedom Newsletter Official Publication of The Missouri
Libertarian Party
http://www.st-charles.lpmo.org/SMF_Manager.htm
Contributing Editor, Liberty For All ezine, www.libertyforall.net
Deacon, Raytown Christian Church, Raytown, Mo. ( Normally I don't include
the information about me being a Deacon, but under the circumstances it
seemed appropriate)
the pledge is socialist slogan that defies the true spirit of america. It
asks us to pledge to a flag, rather thna the constitution( like the
president, military, etc) and spits in the face of individual rights..I say
eliminate the pledge...with or without under god( not part of the original
pledge) i would not wan tmy kids learning it...I am btw a christian who
feels religion has no place in public schools...i do NOT want the goverment
teaching IT's version of the bible to my kids!
Steve
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