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Date Posted: 11:32:02 09/04/08 Thu
Author: RadioRay (The General Idea -)
Subject: Re: Dmitri Orlov: Sail Transport Network
In reply to: Neil 's message, "Re: Dmitri Orlov: Sail Transport Network" on 23:53:14 09/03/08 Wed

... sounds great. The issues that come to mind, however, is the rather obvious lack of actual experience doing even a portion of what is being discussed. Generalities such as:

"The need for wood for housing and ships means protecting old growth trees"

Huh? Trees must be harvested in a manner similar to wheat and other 'crops'. A standing tree is beautiful, but woods only comes from trees and traditional small/medium sized wooden ship building requires a LOT of wood.

I would LOVE to live in a no-engine bay. However, what I see is this idea of building without significant infrastructure and PEACEFUL streets. Like I tell people who complain at the lack of 'good jobs' in 'troubled' areas of Detroit, Compton & south central L.A. etc . 'prosperity follows peace.'. If it's a crime ridden war zone, nobody with a brain is going to move their family there and start a business, if they have ANY other options. The odds of have a nice, peaceful post-petro place without significantly armed, trained and motivated citizens is likely about zero, just like it was during the golden age of sail.

During the golden age of sail, there were TWO general reasons for the ship's Marines:

1. To put down mutiny (crews were often little more than kidnapped victims.)

2. To protect the ship from enemies ashore and afloat.

The British Empire was largely built by Royal Marines dragging a fine 'six pounder' cannon or two. It was not 'fair', but it was effective. the term 'cannonised law' may be closer to the truth than first imagined.

Seriously - I'd LOVE to see this sort of idea work. I'd like to see the conversation focus then produce even 50 acres of sustainable sanity. However, you can learn just how much infrastructure is required to support sihp's as opposed to 'boats' by joining your local fisherman's museum or other restoratory group and see what it takes to build even a single Chesapeake skipjack, much less a coastal freighter.


How about a compromise? Modern , non-rotting materials as available. Realise that oil is not a sin, though the wakes of power boaters certainly are... ;^) . The eco-balance of a fine, synthetic hull that lasts for 50 years or more with little maintenance is a good bargain as opposed to large wooden hulls which may be dead in 10-15 years as they used to die during the golden age of sail. Reading a bit of maritime history shows that many of the fine LARGE sailing ship's were only viable for a relatively short period of time, because of rot. Modern chemicals have made wood much easier to protect and maintain.

Personally, I believe that - like most transitions of baseline technology - this one will not be managed, but rather endured as we are drug by our heels into the next iteration. It would be good to take the high road, with a well planned transition, but frankly, human nature being what it is, I'm hard pressed to see where we've ever done so, unless the benefits were glaring, as in the switch from whale oil lamps to coal oil and finally electricity.

Remember - the reasons for the whale hunts of 150 years ago were primarily for the whale oil during the pre-petrochemical days. I can see the bumper sticker now:

"Don't Drain the Earth: Drain Whales Instead!"


Har-har!

Oh Yeah, now THAT's going to go over well.....




>RadioRay ..._ ._
s/v Milenka
near Weems , Virginia

Ps. Final Prepping for Hurricane Hannah.

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