VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12[3]4 ]
Subject: "Twists," you say? Show us where.


Author:
Ned Depew
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 09:09:33 08/27/05 Sat
In reply to: Gene 's message, "Neddy twists the facts to support his view." on 08:53:21 08/27/05 Sat

Gene -

I've shown you my original sources for some of the facts I've presented - not from me, but based on data collected and analyzed by the EPA, Stanford University and other ususally reliable sources. How have I "twisted" that data? Where is the correct (in your opinion) data available? Only from LaFarge?

As you have at some times in the past, you attempt to discredit others, but don't present a scrap of evidence to support your claims. If you have good, well-researched, independent, contradictory data, please present it. If I am wrong, I want to be the first to know.

If you have nothing but your "opinion," then we'll take that at its face value.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "Twists," you say? Show us where.


Author:
Gene
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:24:27 08/28/05 Sun

You forgot to mention they burn tires in Ct to produces energy and steam. There by saving their land resources from land fills and mountains of tires. If you are going to present facts lets not leave things out like that. Tires burn cleaner in a cement kiln than they do in a TDF burning facility, that is from the EPA too. So you say it is OK for Ct. but not NY.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Wrong, Gene - just plain wrong...


Author:
Ned Depew
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:41:29 08/28/05 Sun

The tires at the CT burn plant are incinerated in a specifically designed and dedicated tire incineration facility, located on the CT shore, several miles upwind of the nearest landmass (the relatively sparsely populated eastern Long Island), where most of the emissions blow harmlessly out to sea. That is the fact.

TDF does NOT burn cleaner in a cement kiln than in a dedicated TDF incineration facility. That is simply not the truth, and you will not find a single scientific study that backs up that ridiculous claim. I can't imagine where you get all your mis-information, Gene, but you certainly seem to have an endless supply.

Please do us all the honor of posting the address where we can go and see for ourselves scientific proof of your claim.

If you want to know where I get my information, one source is the 1988 paper "Domestic Markets for California's Used and Waste Tires," by Seymour I. Schwartz, Professor of Environmental Science and Policy at the University of California at Davis.

He ran tests at four separate cement kiln facilities burning tire scrap (which burns more completely and cleaner than the whole tires Lafarge proposes to burn). His results, which are widely available, found that "dioxin and furans increases of between 53% and 100% in four tests; polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) increased in three tests (between 296% and 2,230%) but decreased by 68% in a fourth test; lead emissions increased in three tests, by 59%, 388%, and 475%, and decreased in one test by 94%; hexavalent chromium increased in one test by 727%, and decreased in two tests by 36% and 87%"

These figures indicate clear increases - sometimes garganutan increases - in some of the most deadly pollutants known to man - and at best, inconsistant results compared to predictions. While tire-burning does reduce some of the less dangerous pollutants released by coal or oil burning, it increases emissions of many much more dangerous chemicals.

If you had any interest in finding out the facts, you could have found this information for your self. Among other places, it is available at: West Virginia Envionmental Council
.

I challenge you to produce the smallest shred of support for your statement, based on scientific fact - and don't try to use that silly "less total pounds of pollution" argument, that compares reductions of relatively benign emissions like SoX with increases in the release of deadly toxins like dioxin and furans.

That is a silly "apples and oranges" argument meant to confuse the public. You may fall for it, but no one with an iota of scientific understanding would be taken in. The truth is, I present the facts, and the sources of those facts so that others can read them first hand and make up their own minds.

You make statements that you can't back up. That's what I call "twisting."
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Wow, kill the Oceans


Author:
Gene
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:51:18 08/29/05 Mon

Winds blowing the stuff harmlessly out to sea. So, its OK to put pollution in the Oceans, if there is any, so you say. Aren't the Oceans the life blood of the Planet? under your sceme of things it is better to pollute the oceans than blow a little smoke over people.

One and one does equal two to some people.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Better than poisoning people? You bet.


Author:
Ned Depew
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:14:57 08/29/05 Mon

Gene -

very funny. At least you finally admit that the emissions from these plants are poisons - that's a step toward recognizing reality from earlier when you claimed that the proposed SLC plant was going to be a giant air cleaner!

Emissions that go out over the oceans are more widely dispersed and so don't concentrate - which is the most dangerous situation. Also, the long-term effects of these pollutants on the marine eco-system are unknown, whereas the effects on people living downwind are clearly documented.

I agree that a better solution would be to not burn tires at all until technology is available to control all these dangerous emissions. But if someone is going to burn them - as you seem to advocate - they should do it in a way that minimizes damage to people.

Possible damage to the oceans or CERTAINLY spewing poisons on your friends and neighbors - which would you choose, Gene? OOOh! Think hard!



[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.