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Subject: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Ned Depew [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 10:46:39 10/14/05 Fri In reply to: Gwen 's message, "Fuel prices and county supers idea" on 22:12:43 10/13/05 Thu Gwen - While any relief from the high cost of gas (and more importantly perhaps, home heating oil) would be welcome, what the County Supervisors could do, would (at most) be cosmetic, amounting to less than a quarter per gallon. The real story here is price gouging. It is undeniable that prices took a sharp jump long before any shortages that had to be replenished with higher-priced product emerged. Oil companies and distributors who had been selling gas for around $2.15/gallon one day boosted it up to $2.50 and then over $3 within fourteen days - while still selling the product that they had purchased (or manufactured) at a cost that allowed them to make a comfortable profit at the $2.15/gallon price. We saw a similar phenomenon in the 1972 oil embargo and subsequent price spikes. But at that time we had a responsible President, who was a man of integrity and didn't have strong ties of self-interest to the Oil Cartel. Jimmy Carter moved swiftly to impose a "Windfall Profits Tax" on oil companies and distributors, to remove their incentive to drive prices ever higher. He also instituted a comprehensive energy plan that would have made the US energy independent by 2000, if it hadn't been dismantled by the Reagan and Bush I administrations (and ignored by Clinton). If Carter's plan had been implemented, cars would have been getting 50MPG or better by 2000 - the SUV boondoggle would have been avoided - alternative energy sources would have been developed in earnest (instead of suppressed) using the clout of Federal Government energy research dollars in a big way - for peaceful purposes. Carter actually styled this program the "moral equivalent of war" and asked US citizens to join together behind it - and even make some "sacrifices" to achieve energy independence - as we traditionally have banded together during war time for the common good. If we had done so, the whole "oil Crisis" and the backbone of justification for Gulf Wars™ I and II would not have existed. What I'm saying by this brief history lesson is that not much can be done on the County level that will have lasting effects. The County Supes would do better to pass a resolution demanding both a rigorous investigation - by Elliot Spitzer at least, and at the national level - of Oil Company pricing practices (which when closely examined bear no relation to the traditional "market force" bogeymen of "supply and demand") and the institution of a Windfall Profits tax. In the long run it is not taxes, but obscene profits being extorted by oil companies and their subsidiaries in distribution that is causing these price rises. In European countries high gasoline taxes have the double value of restricting consumption of gasoline (and spurring production of fuel efficient vehicles) and providing funds for national and international public transportation that is model of efficiency and comfort. That was what was intended for our gasoline taxes initially, but now they only go into the DOT general funds, and are mostly spent for more and more motor vehicle roads - leading to increased vehicle usage, increased fossil-fuel consumption and increased air pollution! The worst of all possible worlds! I think that course for the Supervisors would be much more useful - to educate the voters to how the federal government is allowing oil companies to rob us and to our complete lack of a comprehensive energy plan that actually deals with the issue of diminishing oil supplies - than short term relief of a few cents per gallon at the pump. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> Subject: Re: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Gwen [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:37:30 10/14/05 Fri Thanks Ned. That history lesson, if you will, was quite interesting. I do agree that the prices rising when the gas sellers hadn't yet purchased the "more expensive" supply, was ridiculous. You go to work in the morning and by the time you leave that night, gas was up 30 cents or something. I figured the dropped taxes on gas, even if it was both the state and county, would likely be such a small number as to be somewhat insignificant. I do believe the something should be done to monitor gas stations, but then again there are many of the them in the county. Wasn't there something where if people saw that a particular station or chain was gouging, they were urged to report it? I thought someone in a neighboring county actually seemed to get the ball rolling against Cumberland Farms price gouging. (Mine here in CC doesn't seem to be, they are lower than many others...) I don't know whatever came of that, but I could have sworn I read it in the TU. Again, though, thank you for the suggestions. If you aren't banned from the papers, perhaps you should send in a letter on this issue...

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Pete R [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:29:01 10/15/05 Sat All one has to do is walk like i do and the prices will come down. It would be the sensible way to control prices. Oh yes, we can't give up our precious SUV's and foreign cars now can we?

[> [> [> [> Subject: Pete - you're one of the lucky ones - but don't you mean "crawl like I do?" Author: Ned Depew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:31:19 10/15/05 Sat I guess that's one of the side benefits of living under a rock, eh? Most of us are wired-in to a system that requires us to drive to work, at least. And the geography of our towns and cities has developed into such a sprawl that unless you have all day to walk to Greenport and back for your retail needs or for entertainment at the Multi-plexes, and to the Hospital and various far-flung medical facitlites for your medical needs, and unless all your friends live within walking distance (this would imply that you actually have friends who want to spend time with you), then you have to drive. Your response - like that of W. - who advised Americans to "drive less" - is a little like that of Marie Antionette. On the one hand, I applaud efforts by the government (which in the latest "Energy Bill," it is emphatically not making) to improve public transportation and wean America off of fossil fuel, but on the other hand, simply telling the citizenry that they need to change their life-styles in ways that are impossible for the great mass of people in the short run is absurd. Your advice is like that of the hereditary Millionaire who advises the poor to "make more money," - smug and self-satisfied, but not very helpful to anyone.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: "crawl like I do?" Author: Pete R. [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:17:17 10/15/05 Sat Crawl I will, but at least i'am not polluting the amosphere like you with your foreign made car.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Saab is now a GM product... Author: Ned Depew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:23:45 10/15/05 Sat ...although I must admit I'm sorry to have to admit it! Actually, in your case maybe it should have been "slither" rather than "crawl?"

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Still a foreign product Author: Pete R [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:34:39 10/15/05 Sat Here we are neighbors and you talk like that, no wonder some people can't get along with others.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Gwen [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:26:41 10/16/05 Sun Well, I do think that walking is a good idea...in some cases. For instance, why not walk to the post office if you live a few blocks away? It saves gas, saves the atmosphere (however miniscule that savings may be...) and it gets people off their rears and moving. I could go on for ages about sedentary lifestyles and the risks to our health. Pete had a point, yes walking would be beneficial. But Ned had a point too...you can't walk to work if you work 30 miles from home...so walking isn't the answer in the long run...literally. We need something that works for everyone...not just the city dwellers who can utilize public transportation, but also those rural types who cannot. Walking works for some people and kudos and luck to them. I wish i could walk to work. Course, you get the snow/sleet/heavy rain problem with walking as well. Even a block in some weather doesn't work. Not to mention...you can't walk to create heat in your house. So fuel prices, which do include heating oil, are a problem too. I know many people who cannot afford to purchase and utilize a woodstove to heat their homes; not for lack of desire, but lack of funds.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Gene [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:04:18 10/17/05 Mon People could walk to work if there were jobs in the area, that's what the old timers did to get to the Cement Plant, Canada Dry, Match Factory and a host of other places of employment. Now they don't want nothing in the area but a few Artsy Fartsy antique shops and arty galleries which help no one but themselves. Also years ago kids walked to school and were thin, everyone wants to be catered to now, the bus didn't stop at every house on the block.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Energy policy has to be about more than a few dollars... Author: Gwen [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:02:22 10/17/05 Mon Gene, What a wonderful point! Yes, from what I've been told Hudson didn't always used to be upscale antique shops and the likes. I still see people ride a bike to work at WalMart or some of the big chains, but there really aren't jobs to be had in antique shops or art galleries. At least not for the your average person coming in off the streets. And the school...yes, walking to school when you could would be so beneficial. My father used to walk a mile and a half to school, regardless of the weather. Kids today, at least in my opinion, are spoiled with rides everywhere, video games and computers, things that keep them sedentary. And all the while, the foods we eat continue to become more and more unhealthy. Affording organic, fresh or even just GOOD for you food is difficult these days. Just look at ALDI's in Greenport. Cheap food, always crowded store...but take a look at the labels sometime. One little pasta microwave dish is 40-50% of your daily value for sodium. And people buy CARTFULS because they can't afford to buy elsewhere. You see a lot of people with food stamps in there. Or families starting out.