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Subject: Tourists


Author:
Gene
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Date Posted: 08:54:44 07/27/05 Wed

Want to see tourists??? Go to Saratoga. No dreamers up there.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Yearning for Disneyland?


Author:
Ned Depew
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Date Posted: 11:04:53 07/27/05 Wed

Gene -

If you want to live in Disneyland, there are apartments available in Orlando.

Smarth Growth advocates urge a balance of tourism with other uses that include clean manufacturing, retail, agricultural, etc., etc., etc.

There is no one simple answer and a flexible economy - which can respond to the vagaries of national and international economics - will have a constantly shifting balance - with some facets in ascendance while others are in decline.

The paternalistic "Company Town" model you and Tom advocated with SLC has been a loser since the 1950s. Examples from Pittsfield and Schenectady - abandoned and eviscerated by GE - North Adams - where dependence on Sprague Electric led to years of economic depression - Flint and Detroit MI, and even Hudson in the 70s and 80s - abandoned by the Cement Industry and left with a plummeting population and tens of thousands of feet of boardecd -up retail space on Warren Street prove this point.

Neither 'tourism" - which you previously condemned as an insubstantial contributor to economic growth - nor any other single aspect of the economy should be the basket into which we put all our eggs.

We have a good and useful number of tourists here - but we are (thankfully in my opinion) not over-run. I used to live in Stockbridge and can testify that finding a parking space in town in the summer (even to pick up your mail!) was almost impossible, as was getting waited on in a store, finding a table at a restaurant or almost anything else you might want to do there.

Meanwhile, prices jumped in the summer to try to take advantage of the short season of tourist dollars, making the town unaffordable for local residents. The same thing has happened in many tourist destinations, from Martha's Vinyard (where you can rent a lovely 4 BR vacaion cottage for only $9,500/wk) to Key West.

With luck and good leadership, Hudson could still avoid either being over-run and gentrified to death or slumping back into the economic despair into which past administrations led it between 1970-the late 1990s, when a spontaneous renaissance (led by individual business owners and investors and mostly objected to and obstructed by the local political "leaders) set the City on the road to more balanced growth and the possibility of prosperity for the first time in decades.

With the "more-of-the-same" taxing and spending (mostly on themselves) that we are offered by the Scalera/Grandinetti Good-Old-Boy network, the City will not offer such leadership, and it will only require a small change in the national economy to return Hudson to Ghost-town status, or turn it into a gentrified enclave from which locals are all but excluded, like Garrison or Cold Spring.
[> [> Subject: A balanced economy we need, yes?


Author:
Gene
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Date Posted: 12:40:50 07/27/05 Wed

You can't get a much cleaner industry than a new modern cement plant with all it new technology. The price of cement has gone up 25% this year alone and the users of cement have been cut back on their supply to 80% of last years use. When will you and others come to the conclusion cement is a critical material for our well being and the future of our city, county and nation? With the cost of transportation rising due to increased cost of fuel, the availablity of transportation, if you have cement, try and get a ship to transport it, you will find the ships are not available. Would it not be smart to have your product made locally and readily available for use. It is a vital material to be used in the defense of our county unless you wish to hide behind a few sand bags when the missiles come in.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: A balanced economy we need, yes?


Author:
Ned Depew
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Date Posted: 10:27:22 07/28/05 Thu

Gene -

You write: "You can't get a much cleaner industry than a new modern cement plant with all it new technology."

In the Bizarro World you inhabit, this may be true, but in the real world, a plant (even with its "new technology") that asked to be permited to emit more than two tons of pollution each and every day of the year for perhaps 100 years can hardly be considered "clean."

The rise in the cost of Cement is paralleled by the rises in many other costs, from lumber to energy to manufactured goods. You can't blame that on FoH. Perhaps the rising costs will stimulate American Know-how to come up with alternative building technologies that are better, cleaner and cheaper. Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Perhaps cement shortages will act as a brake on the irrational exuberance of the housing and building market. That would be good too.

It is unlikely that "the missiles" will "come in." The only people who have any quantity of missiles are our new best friends the Russians. In any event, it is not the concussion of "the missiles" - from which concrete buildings could concievable offer some protection - which is their real danger. It is the pollution from the multi-thousand-year half-life of their deadly radioactive fallout that would make the surface of the earth non-productive and uninhabitable - and against which concrete is no barrier - that would do the Human Race in.

You would either be poisoned by fallout that leaked into your concrete "shelter" when its air cleaning system eventually failed (if it even had one), or slowly starve to death when your food and water stockpiles - which could never outlast the persistance of Strontium 90 - were exhausted.

It's not concrete that can protect us from catastrophe - but rather our own good-will and love for our fellow man, which can spread throughout the world and establish a true "brotherhood of man." It is our ability to understand that our best aim (and best chance for survival) is to realize that we ARE our brothers' keepers, and that insamuch as we do anything - for good or ill - to our "brothers" we visit the consequences of that action on ourselves as well.

You appear to have been hiding your head in the sand (or behind the sandbags) for a long time now, and I'm concerned that you may not to be able to stop, although I hope you will.
[> [> Subject: Re: Yearning for Disneyland?


Author:
Thomas Koulos
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Date Posted: 15:32:01 07/27/05 Wed

Ned,Get your facts straight.We advocated and still advocate a balanced econmic tax base that's inclusive and not NIMBY oriented to meet local,regional and international needs.The FoH Stretagies to kill the SLC Replacement Proposal with their blame game devisive tactics are reaping the consequences of their short sightness as they go about looking for government subsidies to fund all the projects.
What are the City's,Towns,County,State and National PRIORITIES?With all the EXPERT PLANERS working for your City,Towns,State,and the Nation the hodge podge of their experties are at our doorstep with outstretched hands blaming each other for the mess they and their political allies have placed us in.But what's the use of Gene,Londa,I and others trying to open your eyes, ears and minds to the realities that confront any one willing to face the mud slinging that has made the exploiters of the POLITICALLY CORRECT Hype by promising undelivarable pie in the sky solutions to get elected and political appointments to their supporters.
Go talk to Sammy Boy,The Publishers of our local media,etc. who have all the answers on how to devide the community and milk the system.Tom Koulos
[> [> [> Subject: Facts? Straight? Tom? Which one doesn't belong?


Author:
Ned Depew
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Date Posted: 10:03:54 07/28/05 Thu

Tom -

It is deliciously ironic that you urge someone else to get their facts straight!

You and other SLC advocates continued to urge acceptance of the SLC proposal even when dozens of individuals from various other economic segments of the economy, from manufacturers like Kaz and H.A.V.E. to the many small farms that have started up in the area to hospitality businesses, real estate professionals and many others all testified that they had reason to beleive (based on what had happened in other places) that their businesses would be damaged by the SLC project.

You clearly didn't care what happened to anyone but SLC. You were looking forward (and backward) - as you told us many times - to the new "good old days" when Cement Company payrolls dominated the regional economy, and you reminded us of how "prosperous" Hudson was in the 1940s and 50s, when it was nothing but a "Company Town."

Neither you nor HVEEC (which fell completely apart when its one issue - advocacy of the SLC proposal - went south) ever made any proposals for a "balanced economy" or advocated any such thing. You made a fool of yourself stumbling over your own words to try to argue in favor of that poorly-planned, poorly-executed proposal and now you want to re-write history to try to pretend that that did not happen. But it did.

It was not FoH that killed the SLC proposal, it was the New York State Department of State - as part of the very "process" of review by State Agencies that you and Gene and others urged us to "trust" to do the right thing.

Then, when it did the right thing, you suddenly no longer "trust" it yourselves or support "the process," but insist it has been corrupted by "politics." That is just another laughable attempt by you to save face. But anyone who has been paying the slightest attention knows better.

Until you come up with some positive proposals of your own - instead of just calling others names and criticizing others' efforts - you will be seen as nothing more than a self-important loudmouth, desperately trying to get attention any way you can.

I know you are better than that Tom, and I hope you will rise above that impluse and bring your considerable insight and expereience to bear on coming up with solutions (not simply bemoaning others' lack of them) to our problems.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Facts? Straight? Tom? Which one doesn't belong?


Author:
Thomas Koulos
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Date Posted: 16:36:54 07/28/05 Thu

Fact.you may be looking for a POLITICAL APPOINTMENT since you are not running for Publi Office and by the way I and others read your defensive hype of the FoH devisive rhetoric that you have been feeding us.The voters can accept or reject the proposed NIMBY PLANS because they and the rest of us have to live with the consequences of their votes.
As Gene,Londa,I and others have stated with our names on the record that too is a matter of HISTORY we stand by our opinions while the powers to be try to stifle ours with their so called United Commuinity rhetoric PATRONS.
A 42 year proffesional REPORTER was astounded at the lengths that the R.S. has gone to keep my and others views from being published by firing two of their well known reporters.While they think they have pulled the wool over our eyes,these and other revalations will come back to haunt them.Tom Koulos



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