To a nuetral observer some B & W goggles are kicking in -- SUPER-LEAGUE BOARD

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Date Posted: 7/12/05 5:37:18pm
Author: RB
Subject: To a nuetral observer some B & W goggles are kicking in
In reply to: SL 's message, "Concerns about unfair trading, moderators please read.........." on 7/12/05 4:26:05pm

The Tuck/Trotter for Didak Trade would be in favour of the Kelpies to a nuetral observer with long term thinking in mind.Even i think this but reserve the right to trade for a Magpie favourite as i am a Collingwood supporter.

Tuck was a Father/Son selection who probably would have gone top 20.Anybody who saw this kid in the U/18 GF would be aware of his undoubted talent.Did not want to lose him but u have to give to get.

Trotter is widely regarded by most Kanga supporters as a potential gun.Was a # 9 draft pick in a strong draft & has been held back by injuries.Took the time to research him & in my mind stole him in a trade for pick 46.Expect him to play 1's next year & have some impact.Did not want to lose him but u have to give to get.

Didak on the other hand is widely regarded as a "showpony" & "overated" by most opposition supporters.Heck even some Magpie supporters are of similar opinion.Personally i rate him,always have.

Would appreciate it if comments are withdrawn from the Trade thread.This is not the place for other coaches to express personal & obviously biased opinions.I declared openly on the board that Didak was a target.I got him.End of story.

Personally i think many of the trades that have gone through are weighted heavily 1 way or the other.Bottom line is each coach has the right to shape their own squad as they please & each coach rates different players totally opposite to other coaches.That is the beauty of the comp.

Bottom line,its pretty poor when 2 coaches happy with a trade need to explain it to the satisfaction of others whose opinions may be swayed by their own allegiance to supporting a certain AFL club.

cheers RB

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Replies:

[> [> Agree with RB -- Howie, 7/12/05 5:48:00pm [1]

I think we may be greatly underating Sidey's knowledge in this discussion.
He seemed to genuinely believe and know what he received and how he fared.
To D9, I don't think that you, like me, have ever seen Trav Tuck play and possibly Trotter, though he may have slipped on to a VFL screen some day.
It's probably fair to ask Sidey why he thought this was a deal worth taking, but to label it unfairly one-sided seems a little misplaced.
Let's not forget, Didak's got massive potential, but is also massively exposed to us Pie fans. In reality, his worth on exposed form would be similar to that of a Ryan O'Keefe, perhaps more a Steven Johnson. Chris Judd he ain't. Not yet anyway (fingers naively crossed).

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[> [> [> Forget supporters, they do have bias........ -- SL, 7/12/05 7:02:32pm [1]

Would two AFL clubs make this deal??? The answer I believe is no every time. No exceptions. Travis Tuck may of went top 20 in the recent draft, but it was a draft described by many as a even draft of players that may or may not make AFL level. One of the biggest guess drafts ever. Trotter has played a couple of games in his first year, and only has praise from North supporters, not widely accepted as one to watch by opposition supporters all round. Neither player has proved anything as at this date. Didak at worst is a handy week in week out player.

Now I would hate to imagine that this competition is no place for opinion, I have voiced that opinion, I have said that I am not talking from a coaches perspective, but as an organisor of this competition. My affiliation to Collingwood has nothing to do with this view either.

Put simply Didak is well know to be a potential superstar, where as Trotter and Tuck are possibles. Didak in his first year done more than Trotter dreamt to at night this season. Tucks older brother was delisted by Hawthorn before coming good at Richmond, so the parallels could be there. Also can anyone tell me where I can read glowing reports to either player, as potential superstars of this game. Perhaps Wisbey mentioned one or both.

Look I am not being personal, I am not trying to reverse the trade, I am saying what stops someone from coming into this competition in the future (Forget this trade as a comparision) and trading what can arguably be one sided trades? It is a question, what protects our competition?? A coach in this comp can come in, make some silly moves, and leave a skeleton, what stops that from happening??

Sidey and RB, don't see this as a go at you please, perhaps I am wrong in what I think, just something I would like us moderators to think about. What is in place???

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[> [> [> [> i think you are greatly over rating didak -- gothedons, 7/12/05 7:42:18pm [1]

agree that i can see a winner and loser in this trade, but i mean common, didak is no where near superstar status... he is a good player that has shown potential but a superstar is a naive claim... he only had 1 game last season where he had more then 15 disposals, and only 3 games where he kicked more thne 3 goals, definately has potential to be a good player, but is definately not a superstar and dont think he will be... as for trotter sidey is a north fan so he may over rate him, but i see him as a good prospect also, and well i know nothing about tuck but obviously is being rated by wat sidey has seen of him and the name... i dont think there is anything wrong with this trade at all, and i think other trades have gone through which have been more one sided then this...

in the end it all comes down to how the individual rates a player, and thats what makes the comp so unique, u trade and draft who u want, not who other people think are good or not.. From me josh carr is a prime example of this, gun player but i really disliked him thats y i got rid of him...

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[> [> [> [> Would be very difficult to "police" trades -- RB, 7/12/05 7:56:20pm [1]

Besides a case of obvious collusion (never seen anything remotely close) between 2 teams that gets the majority of coaches Questioning a trade (ie Judd for B.Shaw) it should be accepted that 1 coaches trash is anothers treasure & therefore some trades will seem "mad" to each of us as individuals but be seen as a win/win for the actual coaches involved in the trade.

Some points:

Different coaches will rate many players on a wide scale.From gun to dud.

Coaches will rate players who play for the team they support at above market value.

It is assumed all coaches are in the game for long term but the reality is some turnover will occur.

The "fairness" of a trade cannot really be determined until a few years have passed by.The past performance of players means zip when it comes down to it.Only future "points" matter.

Some coaches are going for the prize next year while others are building a team for a sustained tilt at the prize down the track.This can greatly affect the deemed value of a player (young gun or established player ?) depending upon an individual coaches stratetgy.

While its true some teams may be stripped of perceived value by a series of trades by a short term coach, the reality of AFL football is that it evolves constantly so any team decimated in the short term can be rebuilt by a new coach who is dedicated & willing to remain in the comp for a few years.

No answers here but just personal opinions on why it may be difficult to moniter trades regarding value.

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[> [> [> [> [> Understand D9's perspective and perhaps -- Howie, 8/12/05 7:28:34am [1]

A safeguard can be put in where if a certain percentage of mods - let's say 60 per cent - vote the trade should be vetoed then so be it.

Both teams can get their chance to explain their positions about the trade and then the mods can vote.

It will come up. I know my earlier Lance Whitnall/Pick 22 for Jordan Russell/Pick 14 made Josh think "WTF", because on the surface it's a rated tall and an unproven type. However, I was well off for talls, needed mids and am pushing for youth over experience. Additionally, Whitnall had very little market value, as I had regularly floated him without a nibble.
So with an explanation, the trade can make a bit more sense than it may do on face value.

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[> [> [> Ryan O'Keefe is a 100 point plus player -- Maxwell, 8/12/05 10:06:11am [1]

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[> [> [> [> And Lance is a 100-pie plus player -- Howie, 8/12/05 10:23:12am [1]

I was just going on perception and I'd suggest Sydney siders would rate O'Keefe in a similar league to Dids and Cats fans Johnson.

100 points is a fair whack though. How about a trade? Courtney Johns interest? Or O'Keefe's teammate Spriggsy. He's really, really fast and could go surfing with Dermie.

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[> [> [> [> [> Ha.................. funny you say that -- Maxwell, 8/12/05 11:39:36am [1]

At our last Team selection meeting at the end of the season, Dermie did bring up Spriggsy. You could imagine JASON'S reaction to that. Mate, almost blew me out the window.
Thing is, any player with blond hair, Dermie fancies them down at the DAWKS.

Yeah, o'Keefe had a great season this year. And yes I agree Sydney fans do rate him highly. But then he did not go to the Swans with the same expectations that Didak had, when he started at Collingwood.

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