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Date Posted: 17:35:52 02/22/05 Tue
Author: Lindsay
Subject: Pop music in the ensemble setting

I was wondering what you people thought about using pop music as literature for your performing ensemble. I'm thinking more along the lines of choral ensembles (not show choir), but I suppose it could apply to instrumental, too (not jazz bands). My high school choir did a fair amount of pop music, even to the point of our biggest concert of the year was our Pops Concert in the spring, which annually sold out and attracted more people to one concert than all other three combined. Do you think pop music is legitimate concert music? Is there anything to be learned from studying pop music in an ensemble setting? Why or why not?

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Replies:

[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Cynthia Holcomb, 16:04:11 02/25/05 Fri [1]

I absolutely think that pop style is a legitimate form of music. It by no means can replace music from other eras, however singing in that genre offers its own set of rewards and challenges. It still requires good breath support and vocal technique, different phrasing, and musical expression. I believe it may serve as a catalyst to draw more people into the music performances, when they may be hesitant to attend a concert focused on the Baroque era, etc. Any good musical experience is better than no experience at all!


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Lisa, 17:34:23 02/27/05 Sun [1]

Pop Music is a big influence many students lives. Being able to sing some of that pop music can make the student alive and be excited about what they are singing/playing. Being able to perform Pop Music in music ensembles has definitely impacted the way I personnaly look back on my music ensemble days. It also provides the students with wonderful memories.


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Rosemary, 05:00:57 02/28/05 Mon [1]

Pop music is great as long as that's not all you focus on in your music program. Use it for variety and choose pop music that has musical value.


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[> [> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Dr. O., 09:54:43 03/01/05 Tue [1]

Since this conversation is going one direction, let me play devils' advocate here and for the sake of discussion, offer a different perspective.

First, isn't it our responsibility as teachers to utilize the BEST music available in our classrooms and ensembles? There is a very limited amount of time available for instruction and rehearsal: do we owe it to our students to maximize that time by using only the best materials we can find? This wouldn't necessarily exclude pop music, or automatically include everything written by the "Dead white guy" composers. However, I would suggest that most pop music does not fall into the category of great music; some doesn't even fall into the category of good music, since it is intended to be consumed and forgotten.

Secondly, one could argue that students bring with them a deep understanding of popular music already, and very little understanding of other musical types and forms. Should instruction center on what they already know rather than seeking to broaden their knowledge base?

Thirdly: is it honest to use pop music as a "hook", and then hope that we can expose students to other things? You know, sort of "I'll let you sing music you like, but you also have to sing some of 'my' music also." Wouldn't this be like saying to a child "Sure you can have candy for supper, you just have to eat some of the food I want you to eat also."

There is a lot more that could be said, but I have to go to class. I'll be interested in reading your responses.


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[> [> [> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Lindsay, 21:14:59 03/02/05 Wed [1]

From my extensive experience with pop music at the high school level, I came out not really liking it all that much. Yeah, some of it was fun, but I never really got that much out of it, and it never really stuck with me like some other pieces did, particularly the Moses Hogan stuff.

One thing I noticed when we did do pop music was that people threw all their knowledge of musicality and technique out the window, because it was pop music, and they didn't use good technique when singing along to the radio, so why use it when you're singing it in choir? I think that's one of the dangers of pop music, familiarity.

On the other hand though, all music was new once, so who knows who today's Beethoven or Brahms would be? Are the Beatles any less musically valid than Bach? I find myself struggling with this issue - is there as much to learn from the Beatles as there is from Bach? Will kids get more out of Beatles because that's what they're familiar with, or will it just be empty fun, while they slog through "boring Bach?"


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Honoree Pouly, 09:34:49 02/02/06 Thu [1]

I think that pop music is a legitimate type of music. I think it is nice to throw in some pop music. It can help hold the students interest. Of course I think the music should be tasteful and carefully selected, but they can still learn from this type of music. The students could learn about the form and what is most commonly used in pop music. It is good to use different types of music in repertoire or it gets boring. I don’t think that pop music should be the main focus, but allow your students to have some fun.


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Sarah, 17:50:55 02/03/06 Fri [1]

I believe that pop music is a legitimate type of music. As long as the students are learning something, I think pop music can be used. I don't think that just pop music should be used, but it is okay to use occasionally for variety.


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Derek, 11:23:35 02/04/06 Sat [1]

Well, I think there are two things that could be added to this huge discussion:

1) Are parents going to agree with this? If we start adding typical "pop" music into our concerts - I guarentee there'll be somebody in your audience that objects, for whatever reason. AND, if they object to you teaching their son or daughter pop music, how long will it be before support for the music program goes out the window?

2) Is there a chance some students will lose interest in being in the ensemble if part of the curriculum includes pop? You could have students at either extreme: One kid leaves because they object to pop music in general, while the other kid leaves because they object to singing or playing pop music - these kids have a feel for what pop music should sound like, and when it doesn't sound like that in rehearsal they become bored...

Just some more food for thought.


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Tediyra, 00:24:13 02/06/06 Mon [1]

A little pop is ok. You need to teach students to look at modern music from an intellectual standpoint. However, to much can simply be devastating. Its too tempting to perform modern music "as heard" and often lacks the challenge needed for a choir of any level.


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[> Re: Pop music in the ensemble setting -- Devin Bramel, 09:20:53 02/06/06 Mon [1]

I would argue that programming so called "pop" music is a double-edged sword. Yes, the students may enjoy singing it more than more "serious" music (in which case, the teacher should ask himself why the students don't enjoy singing "serious" music and whether his approach to it is causing the dislike) but by the same token, so much of the "pop" music has very little educational value to it. Let's face it, most pop music is written with approximately five chords and is intended to be marketed to those who do not have any understanding of music theory, history, or even what brilliant music can sound like. As educators, how can we justify teaching music that offers so little for students to learn?
Additionally, most arrangements (especially choral arrangements) of pop music are downright laughable. This music was not meant to be sung SATB, yet there are arrangers attempting to create arrangements for these voices. (Some of the parts are absolutely attrocious, especially the standard tenor line in which the tenors must remain on the same pitch for anywhere from 4-8 bars).
This is not to say that pop music does not deserve a place in the curriculum; however, as educators it is our responsibility to provide students with music that contains material that they can learn not only about singing or playing their instruments, but also form, harmony, etc. Most pop music, however, simply cannot meet these requirements.


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