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Date Posted: 18:03:29 04/05/04 Mon
Author: Devin Bramel
Subject: Are school teachers real conductors?

I've been thinking about this issue for quite some time. I've seen about six or seven different high school band directors in my time, and only one has come close to being what I consider an actual "conductor". The others just kind of move their arms in beat patterns and don't really attempt to give any cues or to express the music with their bodies. I know that teachers can't be expected to be Bernsteins or von Karajans, but still I would think that band/orchestra directors could be very good conductors if they actually tried. Do people just not care enough to develop their technique? Cause I think it's the kids, ultimately, who are being hurt by not being taught how to properly follow a quality conductor.

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Replies:

[> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Brittany, 19:05:22 04/13/04 Tue [1]

Let's hope that if your going to be a band director you care enough about your directing because that's what you're doing all the time! I've been lucky enough in High School to have very clear directors. But, I've been under the direction of others, especially student teachers, who seem to have no idea what they're doing. So, I understand what you mean. I think this is something for us to consider because we will one day be in that position. So think...How do you want your students to react to your conducting. Not only does the music express the feeling of the piece, but I believe the directors movements/body actions do it!


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[> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Dr. O., 10:59:52 04/16/04 Fri [1]

>I think it's interesting to note several things here: 1) Is there a difference between those who think of themselves as "directors" and those who think of themselves as "conductors"? 2) Conducting is a PERFORMANCE art; in graduate school conducting programs, it is virtually always part of the performance division (rather than music ed division, for example) of the school. As such, skill in conducting is similar to any other performance skill: it takes time and practice to develop. Fortunately, it CAN be developed by work and practice. 3) If our goal is to develop excellence in our ensembles, I don't see how we can neglect spending time improving our conducting. I don't mean only in a technical sense (beat patterns, clarity, etc.) but perhaps even more importantly in expressivity and musicianship. If we aren't advanced conductors, how will our ensembles become advance performers? I think ensembles very seldom exceed the ability level of their conductors. Sloppy, unclear conducting leads to sloppy, unclear playing. 4) As important as the physical attributes of conducting are the mental aspects. Does the conductor have a clear mental image of the piece? Does he/she have a sense of the musical flow and development of the piece? Has he/she analyzed the work for its emotional/expressive content? Finally, can he/she communicate these things (and others) to the musicians?
I could obviously go on (and on, and on) about this topic. Any other ideas?
Dr. O.


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[> [> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- *~Amanda~*, 07:48:02 04/19/04 Mon [1]

I have had experiences with both types of directors(those who are expressive and those who just wave their hands). I believe that most of the time the directors just don't know how to express. If they were never had an emotional conductor, then they never really knew what it was like. I saw a real difference in the group that I was in between directors, and I hope that I can be expressive and help the students feel the music just like the experiences that I had. School teachers need to be "real" conductors, that is how the audience stays attentive and understands the meaning of the music. If the conductor isn't helping the students then they can't express the music to the audience, or to themselves!


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[> [> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Steven Tharp, 17:55:06 05/15/04 Sat [1]

This is a great question. I would first like to say that as Music Educators, it is our duty to make sure that we give the students the best musical experience possible. In my opinion, We are not conductors until the actual performance. We should be always teaching our students. You can be a great "conductor" but it is far more important to be a better educator and be clear with their conducting than to be a Conductor with bad teaching skills. But really, I don't think that teachers can be considered real conductors. I guess it depends on your definition of a conductor.


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[> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Brittany, 19:12:06 04/19/04 Mon [1]

Over Spring Break, I went to one of our indoor drumline's competitions at Westerville North (near columbus). Some of the best drumlines we've ever competed against were there including Centerville, who beats us every year at each competition no matter what. Like usual, I like to watch each drumline then rate them how I think they stand. After seeing all 7, I had my drumline, Hilliard Davidson 7th while Centerville at 1st. I didn't think Davidson was as powerful, had good enough playing nor where they expressive. To my BIG surprise, Davidson placed 1ST and Centerville 2nd. Later, I found out that 1 of the judges was the retired percussion teacher at Davidson and the other judges knew our drumline very well. I think that they did a horrible job judging. Centerville's music was much harder than Davidsons, but Davidson did have an advantage because they could play their easier music much cleaner. I actually feel bad saying that my old drumline shouldn't have won, but I feel as though they didn't earn it. So, I agree, judges can have certain opinons towards bands...especially if they know the instructor(s)!


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[> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Brittany, 19:13:38 04/19/04 Mon [1]

Over Spring Break, I went to one of our indoor drumline's competitions at Westerville North (near columbus). Some of the best drumlines we've ever competed against were there including Centerville, who beats us every year at each competition no matter what. Like usual, I like to watch each drumline then rate them how I think they stand. After seeing all 7, I had my drumline, Hilliard Davidson 7th while Centerville at 1st. I didn't think Davidson was as powerful, had good enough playing nor where they expressive. To my BIG surprise, Davidson placed 1ST and Centerville 2nd. Later, I found out that 1 of the judges was the retired percussion teacher at Davidson and the other judges knew our drumline very well. I think that they did a horrible job judging. Centerville's music was much harder than Davidsons, but Davidson did have an advantage because they could play their easier music much cleaner. I actually feel bad saying that my old drumline shouldn't have won, but I feel as though they didn't earn it. So, I agree, judges can have certain opinons towards bands...especially if they know the instructor(s)!


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[> [> The 2 above from me should go under "OPINIONS?'' -- Brittany, 19:17:38 04/19/04 Mon [1]

The 2 above from me should go under "OPINION?"


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[> Re: Are school teachers real conductors? -- Jackie Batteiger, 19:03:39 04/22/04 Thu [1]

After reading this post I just keep thinking, ~how much rehearsal time is lost when we have to explain with words what we should be communicating by our conducting?~ Even at the elementary level, students need exposure to good conducting. They learn to watch and interpret expressive motions. It is a challenge when they struggle with just finding the right notes but it is not impossible. Some of the best teaching is done by modeling and a conductors instrument is the baton.


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