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Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 03:56:16 05/19/04 Wed
In reply to: exa 's message, "Columbus and the Templars" on 14:14:48 05/04/04 Tue

Columbus in the North Sea:

In 1474-1475 he appears to have visited Chios, where he may have resided some time, returning to Genoa perhaps early in 1476. Thence he seems to have again set out on a voyage in the summer of 1476, perhaps bound for England; on the 13th of August 1476, the four Genoese vessels he accompanied were attacked off Cape St Vincent by a privateer, one Guillaume de Casenove, surnamed Coullon or Colombo ("Columbus"); two of the four ships escaped, with Christopher, to Lisbon. In December 1476, the latter resumed their voyage to England, probably carrying with them Columbus, who, after a short stay in England, claims to have made a voyage in the northern seas, and even to have visited Iceland about February 1477. This last pretension is gravely disputed, but it is perhaps not to be rejected, and we may also trace the Genoese about this time at Bristol, at Galway, and probably among the islands west and north of Scotland.
http://www.yenra.com/christopher-columbus/


Various quotes on Malory, Templar, the Grail:

The fall of the Holy Land in 1291 and the dissolution of the
Knight Templars between 1307 and 1314 coincide with the temporary
disappearance of the grail romances from history. The legend was
revived when Sir Thomas Malory wrote Le Morte Darthur (1470 based
on The Vulgate cycle).

http://www.florilegium.org/files/UNCAT/Holy-Grail-art.html

>Also integrating histories of the Assassins, who kept a hidden >fortress
>secluded in the mountains, and the Templars who were rumored to worship a
>head called Baphomet is just a general must, >since they've left their mark
>on the surrounding landscape, and I >recently read a little bit about both.
> Must spend sometime in a Templar castle. Plus I want to have a
> >recurring NPC who is obsessed with the Templar treasure.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail would lead this scenario off in a completely
different direction. HB,HG claims that the Holy Grail, and the treasure of
the Templars was the bloodline of Jesus Christ his bad self. It was passed
down through the Merovingian kings of France, and was a guarded secret to
the present day when the authors were permitted to publish the secret for
general consumption.

Hancock's 'The Sign & the Seal' claims that the Grail and the Templar
treasure was actually the Ark of the Covenant. He uses the bible to trace
the transport of the Ark from Israel during the time of the kings to
Ethiopia, where it remains today. Hancock even kindly includes a photo of
the guardian of the Ark in front of the building where it is kept.

Then there is Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum, which I'm willing to bet he
wrote in reaction to HB,HG.

I also read a book whose name is now lost in the mist of time, which claims
that the Grail and the treasure of the Templars _and_ the head Baphomet that
they worshipped was the Shroud of Turin. It was held in a flat box with a
hole in top that showed the face of the Shroud, which parallels the Grail as
graal, or serving tray, one of the many attempted etymologies for Grail
(from a trans of Eschebach's Parzival IIRC).

Finally, there is the book that just came out that has gone to the top of my
Christmas list: The Lost Treasure of the Knights Templar: Solving the Oak
Island Mystery, by Steven Sora. I read the back in the bookstore, and this
is a real winner. When I was young, I remember, from one of those
mysterious places books I liked to read about a pirate treasure that was
buried on an island somewhere. The entrance to the treasure was so cleverly
designed that it was impossible to get to, impossible to dig around. It was
protected by booby traps along a narrow shaft that led down into the island,
and you couldn't manipulate the lock a the bottom for long because of high
tide. Does anyone else remember this? Apparently Mr Sora does, because he
claims that the it is the Treasure of the Templars that was smuggled to the
new world and hidden with their advanced, nigh-mystical grasp of engineering
in this death trap on Oak Island.

http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/v03/03-290.txt


Re: one of the many attempted etymologies for Grail>>

The confusion of "Holy Grail" le saint graal as Sang real' or "royal blood" originated with Sir Thomas Malory's misspelling in his Le Morte D'Arthur (15th C). There is no valid etymological basis for Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln's contention that "holy grail" means "holy blood".
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/sion.html

linked off from that:

"Readers of Malory may well have been puzzled by the fact that, though he sometimes refers to the sacred vessel as 'the Holy Grayle', a correct translation of the French words 'le saint graal', he also refers to it as 'the Sankgreal' and takes it to signify 'the blyssed bloode of our Lorde Jhesu Cryste', evidently because of a confused notion that 'Sankgreal' contained the element sang, 'blood'." - Roger Sherman Loomis, The Grail, From Celtic Myth to Christian Symbol
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/gnosis/queste.html#Sangreal

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
WallacetheBruce
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Date Posted: 14:44:44 05/23/04 Sun

Hello exa,
Nice to hear from you. I spent soooo long looking for someone who was interested in the book (and the Templars. I don't think I ever mentioned columbus connections with the knights of christ but hear is the forum to do so.

Welcome to my forum. Please feel free to communicate here about all your thoughts and theories.

Read:
Holy Blood and Holy Grail
The Hiram Key
The Second Messiah
Templar Revelation
The Templars by Piers Paul Reed
The Messianic Legacy

I will name a few more next time....but for your own enjoyment I highly recommend The Da Vinci Code. It is a work of fiction but all theories and truly held and all facts are real. A good mystery.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Wallace the Bruce (St. Clair)

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
St Clair
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Date Posted: 14:48:32 05/23/04 Sun

Spelling mistakes....

"......who was interested in the book (and the
>Templars). I don't think I ever mentioned columbus
>connections with the knights of christ but HEAR is the
>forum to do so......."

"HEAR" should obviously read "here"

I hate making mistakes.

Gardez Bien

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 01:02:13 06/08/04 Tue

>I don't think I ever mentioned columbus
>connections with the knights of christ but here is the
>forum to do so.

When I read various parts of F's Pendulum, and saw the references to the Templars, I was reminded of your work, and then Columbus was a natural overlap because of the log book discussions. Since Pendulum is concerned with grand plans, it made sense that the voyage to the new world would somehow be caught up with the Templar mythology, if only in a fleeting reference in the book.

Cheers re the books :)

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
WallaceDeBruce
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Date Posted: 02:48:22 06/08/04 Tue

I have the Log Book beside me now. I understand that you got it for a very low price. Could you please cut and paste some of the quotes and work you did on PRVDA as I could not read them after I left. Please understand I had a deep desire to do so but I was upholding a promise to my wife. Please show me some of your fine work. The book has fascinated me since I was a young boy. It was frustrating to wait so long and then leave when someone actually possessed a second copy of this wonderful book.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 21:23:34 06/08/04 Tue

I tried to send an email to the address at the website with an attachment that had all the entries and spelling checks beneath them. Did that get through?

Anyway, something on the 4th August.

Only he was there who did speke in my favour. He was a German and hys name was Michael Behaim / ye same who had fitted ye Astrolabe

I read the name there as "Michael Behaim", though I wasn't certain about the h and a in Behaim, they seemed odd. If I have the name right, searching online for people of that period brings up a reference to letters by Durer:

"The first is written to Michael Behaim who died in 1511, and had commissioned him to make a design for a woodcut of his coat of arms."

at the bottom
">http://www.knowledgerush.com/paginated_txt/etext06/7durr10/7durr10_s1_p71_pages.html"

Of course there is the joke about "Germans not being such dull folk", so it looks like the right person. I actually had thoughts about whether the log book could be translated into German, the concept of the work makes something like that intriguing, as well as using spellings for the language of the time (Middle High German I believe, though I have no knowledge of it myself).

Re the name Donna Filipa Muņiz-Perestrello. From what the post says, I found Muniz to be used in German pages, and Moniz more generally, so is the author unconsciously using a German spelling for the name?

Looking back at the posts I did for the forum, many points of mine look obscure (I was trying to write sparingly), especially in notes on problematic spellings. Naturally, not all were easy to classify as current or not, and finding a way to set out complications proved hard sometimes.

Searching "M Behaim":

Kimble, G.,H.T. "Some Notes on Medieval Cartography, with special reference to M. Behaim's Globe", Scottish Geographical Magazine, vol. XLIX (1933), pp. 91-98.
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/LMwebpages/Bib3.html

I limited myself to using the OED2's spelling list, not looking up 15th-century English texts and searching them, something that could have added more detail. The repetitiveness of the work got to me after a time, and I wanted to plough through as quickly as I could by the end.

If the email or attachment didn't come through (wouldn't be a first for me) then I can try sending again, or I could just paste the file text into one long email.

There was one word I found unreadable. It's in the 20th August entry, on the page with the drawing of the rod:

. . . . . . . father Jacobus did unlock a closet in a
mysterious mannere and took out of it a wondrous [xxxx]
carved rodde

Looking now, I can make a guess at "injun", but it looks more like a w as the last letter.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 21:26:17 06/08/04 Tue

Ack, could that be edited to remove the html for http://www.knowledgerush.com/paginated_txt/etext06/7durr10/7durr10_s1_p71_pages.html

Or type it correctly so it only activates the link, and not everything else.

[
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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 14:56:25 06/09/04 Wed

I also uploaded the posts to a geocities site as an .rtf

There are probably a few misreadings still to be identified. On the first CC entry I read "I must not let them --known-- therefore alle that I knowe". I now think it runs "I must not let them them --knowe-- therefore" - the last letter looked much like an n, but e would be the letter.

File:

">http://www.geocities.com/exadversum/boketxt.rtf"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 14:57:24 06/09/04 Wed

">http://www.geocities.com/exadversum/boketxt.rtf"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 14:58:25 06/09/04 Wed

Problems again with the link activation (blame me)

http://www.geocities.com/exadversum/boketxt.rtf

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
WallaceDeBruce
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Date Posted: 05:11:22 06/10/04 Thu

My god! I had no idea that you had made a draft of the log boke. WELL DONE!!

I will now copy that into my PDA for reading away from the computer. Thank you very much the work you have done. You found the book, analysed the linquistics and copied it for easier reading. And, I must add...reading the word document causes no damage to the book.

Does your boke have shells on it?
I know that you said it had no inserts, so I will copy them for you and send you the word versions.

What have you found out about the publishing house? How old are they and how old is the book. I think it may be the work of carl maria seyppel.

I am impressed with you enthusiasm and I am delighted that you now possess your own copy of the book. Sorry about the condition and the lack of inserts. I must admit a smuttering of disappointment when you told me how cheap it was. Perhaps it is not as valuable as I always believed.

I still and always will, love it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbus and the Templars


Author:
exa
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Date Posted: 20:22:52 06/10/04 Thu

I got the book then started typing the entries out in mid-late February. On what is left of the front cover there are some tiny shells to the top left of 'My'. The "signatue" is almost nowhere to be seen, I had to look at the image you put up to know what it looked like. The X P is just visible on the bottom-left fragment.

My version was so cheap I'd say because of the damage to the front cover (almost gone), blue biro marks on several pages, and no special inserts. And some sellers are very generous. For Ģ20 I once got an incomplete 1836 edition of Cowper's Life and Works (6 out of 8 volumes, with damage to several).

I'm keen to get the typed version corrected, and perhaps look at "dodgy" spellings in more detail, using original-spelling 15th-centruy texts. Feel free to email improvements to the draft. To make this easier, a plain text version of just the entries is here:

http://www.geocities.com/exadversum/logbook.txt


At the time of the postings I had a quick few searches on the author of the book, and found references to a faux-Egyptian work of his. You were right about the date of the work I believe (you told me details in Mirc chat, I have some of them saved). Nothing shown online about Rangette & Sons.

This was the condition of the cover: