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Date Posted: 09:29:31 12/04/04 Sat
Author: SoldFide
Subject: Re: Look again
In reply to: Joe 's message, "Look again" on 16:10:08 12/03/04 Fri

I think this guy is confusing the sovereignty of God and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit with our own effort. Did Peter fall away, yes he did, but he had not recieved the Holy Spirit yet, the condition of being saved. Also, after he sinned, as with the other deciples and apostles, Jesus went and got them. I would posit that someone who thinks that they are a Christian could fall away, but if they do, they were never really Christian, 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, but they went out, that it might become palin that they all are not of us."

Also, In John, Jesus is quite clear that anyone who truly believes will have eternal life, and Paul is quite clear that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to sanctify us and drive us to repentance when we sin, but that He is faithful to do this because we are in His hand. We must do this, but the question is agency, the OSAS believe that God will work in them to effect the change. Howver, who for even one hour has "Loved the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." And who has always, even as a Christian, "Loved their neighbor as themself." These are the Greatest Commandments, and we break them every day. Of this we must repent and rely on God's grace.

Also, 1 Johm 2:1-6, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this WE KNOW [emphasis mine] that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says 'I know him' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be SURE [emphasis mine] that we are in him: whoever abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

There is a differense between salvation and the assurance of salvation. There is no such thing as a carnal Christian, but our sanctification is also not completed in this life (Jesus does instruct us to continually pray for forgiveness of our trespasses). True salvations bears fruit, that is the differense. "We are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that remains alone" --RC Sproul and Faith = Salvation + Works, NOT Faith + Works = Salvation (Again, RC Sproul). Also, bear in mind that our names were either written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the creation of the world or they were not. Those who's names are in the book were chosen by God, and God's sovereign will cannot be violated, not by us or anyone else. We are, however, directed to make our election sure (1 Peter 1:10).

The one thing that these people are right about is that faith without works is a dead faith, it is not a saving faith. However, they fail to see that it is a true faith that produces works, and it is the Holy Spirit that does that. No true Christian can believe that it is ok to go on sinning, if they do fall into a snare of sin, and they have the Holy Spirit (meaning, of course, that they are a true Christian) the Holy Spirit WILL convict them and drive them to repentance, a true Christian cannot escape this. If someone feels no compultion to repent and not sin, they have not Jesus as Lord. I guess the major differense in the two views is agency. OSAS trust God to keep us in His way and drive us to repentance if we stray. Conditional Assurence people seem to believe that the Holy Spirit can fail to bring us back to repentance.

Anyway, I have belabored this point long enough. I'm sure most of you knew this already.

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