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Date Posted: 18:27:41 02/19/08 Tue
Author: Catie
Author Host/IP: h78.8.28.71.ip.alltel.net / 71.28.8.78
Subject: Joan
In reply to:
Joan
's message, "Re: More misconceptions--and again :)" on 16:09:52 02/19/08 Tue
"I don't know why you believe these things. Perhaps it has something to do with what your church teaches you about Catholicism. Perhaps it's just that you see things but haven't studied them, and so you don't know what it's all about...You insistance that I don't know my own religion thought, is baffling. Why do you think you know what Catholics believe and I don't? :) "
I don't insist nor would I even consider knowing more about your religion than you. That would be arrogant not to mention silly. Also I am not trying to "bash" your religion or make up things that aren't there.
When you stated that Catholics ask Mary to Pray and intercede, means you think of Mary as having some sort of "holy power". Why? Because she is not alive. But If she were alive, living today and you asked her to pray for you, it would be different. But seeing that she has died, and -as it was once stated here, believes she sits near or at God's throne to "intercede" it would appear to me that she is viewed as someone who is bigger than life, something akin to diety. Afterall, "The throne of God" is a most Holy place. Don't we as Christians generally "pray to diety?" Since Mary is dead and you are asking her to pray for you, then it seems you are praying TO HER when you ask that. That is what makes it seem to me at least that you are praying to and worshiping Mary. I don't think I've misunderstood that you said those things, right? -If so I apologize.
Perhaps what it comes down to is terminology? What you practice, praying to ask her assistance, feeling she is at God's side, is what I equate to "worshiping". Our prayers that go "up" should go to God alone. :) Anyway, it seems our main division might then be in our terminology.
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Mary and bears -- Joan, 05:39:06 02/20/08 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
"When you stated that Catholics ask Mary to Pray and intercede, means you think of Mary as having some sort of "holy power". Why?"
I guess I have to ask you why you ask others to pray for you. Do you think that your friends have some sort of "holy power"? Why do you ask someone else to pray for you? Doesn't God already know what you need? Do you doubt the power of your own prayer? Why ask someone else to pray for you?
I ask Mary to pray for me, because she *is* alive in Heaven. All the saints in Heaven are more alive than we are. Since we believe in the communion of saints--all of us, not just the comparatively few saints who happen to be on Earth today--we can ask any saint to pray for us. Why? For the same reasons you ask a more limited number of saints to pray for you.
We don't believe that Mary can pray for us, just as any other saint can pray for us.
"Since Mary is dead"
And here we disagree. :) I believe in life after death. I believe that Mary is alive in Heaven, more alive than we are. Life doesn't end at Earthly death. And it's not on hold, as if in suspended animation.
"Since Mary is dead and you are asking her to pray for you, then it seems you are praying TO HER when you ask that. That is what makes it seem to me at least that you are praying to and worshiping Mary. I don't think I've misunderstood that you said those things, right? "
No. You are saying that Mary is dead, that we worship her, and that we are praying to her as we pray to God.
I am saying that Mary is alive in Heaven, that we ask her to pray for us, because we believe in the communion of saints (all of us), and that we do *not* worship Mary as we worship God. We do not worship Mary at all. Mary is revered and is very special, since she is the mother of God. But as special as that is, Mary is not God. Worship is something reserve only for God.
Joan
PS: How big is your shirt bear? My sister is getting a larger one, and I'm getting a smaller version. Did you have yours embroidered w/ Terry's name?
Joan
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Oh Joan -- Catie, 08:02:26 02/20/08 Wed [1] (h78.8.28.71.ip.alltel.net/71.28.8.78)
please don't ask me anything to do with numbers or measurements. Unless it's written out for me.
i.e.: I know how far I live from Atlanta cause the sign says so, (Atlanta 88 miles at exit I-75) otherwise I have no clue. I'm pathetically & completely right brained! :) I
It's a medium size bear I think. :) Not too small, not too large. I didn't think of having any of them embroidered. (I bought 5) That would have been a wonderful thing to have done. Are you pleased with yours?
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I don't have mine yet. -- Joan, 10:37:40 02/20/08 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
It's going to have my father's name on one foot--LT Clancy--and a copy of his firefighter's patch on the other foot.
The buttons from his shirt will be on its stomach.
The shirt is a khaki color, so I'm not sure that it will be very cute. Who ever heard of a dull khaki teddy bear? lol But I'll treasure it of course.
It's funny how conversations get your mind running. I was thinking of Saints' relics. The pieces of robes and stuff like that never bothered me. But things like peices of bone? OK, that's weird. Then I though, is it any weirder than the collection of baby teeth I have fossilizing in my top bureau drawer? Or the lock of baby hair? lol
Do you have your kids' teeth or locks of their baby hair?
Joan
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Joan, your bear will be perfect! :-)................ -- Barb, 14:50:01 02/20/08 Wed [1] (clgrtnt2-port-112.dial.telus.net/161.184.42.112)
I have small locks of my kid's hair in their baby books...and believe it or not, I have an envelope of my own curls that my mom kept from a haircut I had at 3 years. Curls...lovely soft, shiny curls...but no more. Ah well. :-/
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