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Date Posted: 11:09:35 09/30/08 Tue
Author: HF
Subject: I'm on the fence.
In reply to:
SB
's message, "I have a question about the bailout..." on 09:18:46 09/30/08 Tue
I do, however, strongly believe that we need to make sure that whatever bailout plan is eventually passed is comprehensive and well thought out. I don't want to pass a bill simply because of a perceived sense of urgency. Let's take some time to make sure that we get it right and that it doesn't come to haunt us next year (or in subsequent years).
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I guess hte best way to answer -- Minnie, 13:34:32 09/30/08 Tue [1]
is that right now credit is tight, but it may not as of yet meant that people can get a loan. But that is only a matter of time. NPR reported today that the credit market did not bounce back like the stock market and the early victims will be small business owners. I'm sure in the next few months ordinarly people who want to buy cars and houses will start feeling it. Not so much that they can't get a loan, but the interest will be too high (think great Depression, there was money, but at a very high rate). Also before the bailout money market funds broke the buck, meaning for the first time they did not return what was invested. These arethough to be the most stable and risk-free investment, hence the rush to do something. So I guess i do not have a specific answer for you, but by the time there are examples it mey be too late. I am not an economist either, just a worried consumer.
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Where's my bailout? -- Terry, 03:26:04 10/01/08 Wed [1]
I hear the dire predictions about what will happen if the government doesn't bail out Wall Street. People will be out of work; there won't be any jobs; you will fall behind on your mortgage; you won't be able to get credit; you won't be able to put food on the table.
Well, I'm there. The price of EVERYTHING is skyrocketing; my husband still hasn't found a job and his emergency unemployment benefits will be exhausted after 2 more checks. We are teetering on the edge and I have no idea what will happen if Ed doesn't find work before his unemployment runs out. But you probably won't see me online anymore because the BrightHouse bill will be the first thing I stop paying when we run out of money.
I didn't hear our President say one word about helping people like me. Not one single word. Raise the frigging poverty line! Light a fire under FEMA who were supposed to bring hundreds of jobs to this area after Fay (not one person we know who applied has heard back from them and the FEMA woman never returns calls). Pass ANOTHER extension for unemployment in states like Florida where the majority of he unemployed are construction workers like Ed. 700 billion dollars to bail out an industry run by rat bastards making millions of dollars a year; how about we make those guys pay the friggin tab instead of the tax payers? When I hear the CEO of Washington Mutual is considering not taking his multi-million dollar severance package I want to smack someone. It shouldn't be up to him! If your bank is seized by the feds you should be out of a friggin job w/o any benefits on the spot. I am sick and goddamn tired of listening to the government whine about how we have to bail out these fuckers when it is their own goddamn fault! Republicans and Democrats wanted to deregulate the banks and mortgage companies and now we have to clean up their bullshit? Seems to me the CEO of Lehman Brothers has some cash in his pocket, it's time to pony up and pay the bill.
Where's my bailout?
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Sorry for the rant -- Terry, 03:42:09 10/01/08 Wed [1]
I'm trying to figure out how to live on what's left in the bank until next payday and still feed the kids and fix my 14 year old car that broke down yesterday. I'm feeling kind of stressed.
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Don't be sorry for ranting. I had no idea you -- LAwoman, 12:58:29 10/01/08 Wed [1]
were having such a tough time. I can see why this bailout plan would upset you and others who are struggling to keep their heads above water. Just thinking about the CEOs that contributed to this mess getting out unscathed has me pretty steamed too. I want them all in jail. I still don't know how I feel about the bailout plan. I think it still needs a lot of work. But it seems inevitable that there will be some sort of bailout process enacted.
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It's ok -- Terry, 16:34:06 10/01/08 Wed [1]
I just take it one day at a time. If I think too far ahead I can't sleep and I cry a lot.
I wish I could take my post back because I'm more than a little embarassed to have over-shared.
They were able to patch up the gas leak in my car for a measly $35 so that turned out much better than expected. Car isn't running very well but at least it's running for now. I lost between a 1/4 and a 1/2 a tank on the 13 mile ride home yesterday. Just another kick in the ass because that was the rest of my gas for the week.
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Leaking gasoline these days would be a major bummer. Glad it's fixed! -- LAwoman, 19:32:58 10/01/08 Wed [1]
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I agree with you...but -- Minnie, 10:57:36 10/01/08 Wed [1]
The senerios go like this.
No bailout - more banks fail. CEO walk away (they do not have to pay if their bank fails) and no on can affond anything because money is too tight. The one true thing I know is that rich people will always find a way to stay rich (even when they lose thier jobs)
Bailout - We stop the total financial collapse that is coming and hope the economy recovers.
I realize that neither of these help you rightnow. But one will definitely hurt you in the end. Whatever your politics, we have to think about how to stop more from happening. If now is bad, doing nothing will make tomorrow worse!
Also Sorry about you position. None of this is meant directly to you. It must be erally hard to see that much money given away when nothing is coming to you directly.
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But don't you think -- Terry, 16:37:15 10/01/08 Wed [1]
If they split that 700 billion among the population the economy would rebound on its own? Someone at work told me it works out to about 200K a person. Nice!
I know they're going to pass it and I know we'll end up picking up the tab. Just like the S&L bailout.
Rat bastards. Every last one of 'em.
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IA with you Terry, the very top people who got massive ... -- JennyJenkins, 21:07:56 10/01/08 Wed [1]
bonuses because of the sub-prime mortgage fraud schemes, have taken their money long time ago and parked it in some Swiss accounts and I bet they will not be charged with any fraud, and will be walking free and think up some other scheme in about four years or so...
Isn't it something that the biggest bank failures in our memory have happened under Republican presidents? Remember the loan companies under Reagan? That fiasco was bailed out by the Feds too. Just shows that complete de-regulation of the banking system is not good for the common people, but it practically prints money for the schemers.
Anyway, you asked about how it affects a small business, who still employ the largest number of Americans, since major industry has mostly gone to China or Mexico... :-/
Here's one scenario: a small renovator, or a plumber, might have a medium sized contract. All of the workers, and materials have to be paid for before the work is even started, then you have business expenses such as office, and machinery, including cars. So the contractor, has to have a line of credit from the bank to cover these costs. Once the jobs is done, the invoice is sent, the payment comes in 30 or even 60 days later. In the meantime, he has to exist, using the line of credit. If the business is good, and lots of contracts are in the pipeline, he might operate in the black, and doesn't have to use the line of credit, but sometimes there is a slowdown, like right now, then he has to use a line of credit just to run his office and pay his own bills, not to mention the workers that he didn't lay off. Right now, the credit is tight, and he can't get a line of credit, or if he gets one it has doubled in price. If he can't afford the new high interest rate, he is pretty well forced out of business.
Ideally, the bailout will give a governtment guarantee to the bank for those lines of credit, so that this small business man can get his original line of credit, and keep on the workers he has. If the people keep on working, because their places of employment will keep them too, then they will start the renovations, and his business will prosper again.
I'm sorry to read about your situation and that your husband has a hard time finding a new job. Hopefully, once this bail out goes through, this economy will perk up and people will start hiring again.
Anyway, that's how I understand how this bailout is supposed to work. I bet some schemers will figure out how to line their pockets with this money too, but there are supposed to be a lot of checks and balances, to protects the taxpayers this time.
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if only that would help... -- Minnie, 10:08:59 10/02/08 Thu [1]
I think it would be a bandaid and not fix the bigger picture. No credit. Without credit, companies can't buy stuff or hire people (hitting employment and causing small business and larger ones to fold). NPR had stories about this this AM. car dealership with 35% decrease in the month of Sept. Small businesses whos client no longer want to buy because they can get loans. In the end all this will cost average american a lot more than 200K.
As I understand it, the bail out is not to pay people, but to buy up bad debt in companies so that they can stay afloat, with the thought that at a future time the mortgages will be worth more and the gov. recoups the money
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