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Date Posted: 10:43:33 01/17/08 Thu
Author: Jeannine
Subject: This has been bugging me all week - I just have to post about it
I have read some of the comments below many times - and I really disagree with the opinion that we are a country of bigots.
I would never ever ever vote for Hillary - but I am certainly no mysogynist. I have a hundred reasons - listing them now would be a waste of time and effort - but the fact that she is female is certainly not one of them. I would never vote for Obama - but not because he is black. I disagree with him too much. For the record, I am not a racist.
By the same token, I would never vote for anyone based solely on race, gender, religion, sexual preference or anything other than my agreement with how they would govern.
People like the "iron my shirt" guy (fool) and people that would "never vote for a ______ (fill in the blank) are ignorant. I also think they are a tiny minority. To say that we are a racist sexist country is just wrong, in my opinion.
To anyone who thinks Republicans are redneck bigots, I would say the words "Condoleeza Rice". Or does she count seeing as how she has chosen to be a Republican? Funny how "right to choose" only applies to those that choose certain philosophies. I am proud to be in the same party as Dr Rice - not because of what she is but because of what she believes and what she has accomplished. That being said, I don't think people that disagree with me are assholes, stupid etc etc... I just think they have different opinions.
Religious and political bigotry seem more of a problem to me personally - they seem to be accepted - watch any talk show any day or night - as long as the religion you trash is Christianity and the politics you bash are conservative. I would never say, however, that we are a nation of political and religious bigots, because I don't believe that is true - I think the bigots are just louder than average people, that's all.
I really love my country - I spent 20 years of my life serving her - I would truly not want to live anywhere else. We have so much freedom, so many opportunites - no where else compares. I am just so tired of the division. Maybe it will never go away - maybe though, more people will come to be able to discuss their differences and then agree to disagree and work to make the country a better place. That is what I am hoping for in the upcoming election and that will be part of what helps me to decide who to vote for.
I posted this as a separate thread because I do not have any one person here in mind. I honestly just wanted to express myself and hopefully offend no one.
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I applaud you, Jeannine. -- gg, neither a bigot nor a misogynist..., 13:20:16 01/17/08 Thu [1]
And I don't mind ironing hubs' shirts.
If we are a nation of bigots and misogynists (another sweeping generalization?) that's fine by me as I'd rather live here than the Democratic Republic of Congo, Darfur, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq...
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Spectacular post Jeannine.... -- muppetmel, 18:35:59 01/17/08 Thu [1]
... the real reason I don't post in these threads is because I am simply not able to articulate what I believe as well as you can. Beautifully well said, as always.
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Let me make something clear. -- HF, 19:40:37 01/17/08 Thu [1]
We can agree to disagree about the number of bigots and misogynists in this country and that is fine. My personal experience living in a mixed race family and growing up in DC with a number of relatives still living in a poor, segregated community in Mississippi does not permit me to say that these groups are a tiny minority. But your experience is genuine and valid as well so we can leave it at that.
What I need to make clear, however, is that I would never argue that Republicans and/or Christians are the bigots and misogynists. These groups know no political or religious affiliation. Bad people can be found in every town in every state, in every workplace, at every peace rally and in every church. Good people can be found in all of these places too.
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Thanks HF -- Jeannine, 08:34:28 01/18/08 Fri [1]
I do appreciate your experience and wish we could sit down and talk. I would like to understand exactly where you are coming from.
I have lived in Mississippi and New Orleans - the race divide is still alive and well in some places and I am also aware of that. I don't understand it, but I know it exists.
I think I am also a little sensitive right now - tired of hearing that Republicans are hillbillies etc etc etc. (please remind me not to watch Bill Maher for any reason at any time) I know it is not just one group that mouths off and spreads their ignorance, just as I know that no one party or group holds the patent on bigotry.
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My point was -- Terry, 04:52:57 01/20/08 Sun [1]
That this country as a whole is not ready for a woman or a black man as President because there are still many many bigots and mysoginists. You can't possibly believe the majority in this country is like you, intelligent and capable of deciding on a candidate soley on their merits. I really believe you are a rare person because based on what you have always said, I believe you would vote for Hillary if she were the best conservative candidate. Same for Obama. You believe in your politics and not just one or two people.
My opinion about bigots and mysoginists is based on my personal life experience. I'm glad your life experience has been different.
And I still think the current President is an ass and a feeble minded psycho and isn't it great that I live in a country where I can come out and say that w/o fear of being arrested or shot? :-P
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Thank you so much Terry! -- Jeannine, 08:18:16 01/20/08 Sun [1]
I really didn't want to piss you off, and was afraid you would think my post was directed at you - it wasn't.
You may be right that this country is not ready for a black or a female president but I think that there is a large (forgive me if I bring up a Reagan Era term) SILENT MAJORITY that looks at individual merit, not color, not gender.
In the interest of full disclosure, I agree that many do not accept the gay lifestyle as normal and I would go so far as to say they never will. It has always been there - my parents had a friend that was a "confirmed bachelor" but never delved into it. I don't think that most people assign sexual perversion like pedophilia and beastiality to gays, only an ignorant few do that and I hate that you work with the leader of that clan. Hopefully, the next generation will be kinder and more tolerant, and don't worry, Rev. Rufus McDickhead will have to explain to God one day why he hated a group of people that He/She created.
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mm-hmm -- jerri, 21:08:19 06/04/08 Wed [1]
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I really think you are wrong -- Caren, 07:04:20 01/21/08 Mon [1]
I live in Chicago, and it's racist here. But it's been worse, in my experience, in Florida. I have relatives out there that frighten me.
The Democrats held the Congress for 40 years and lost due in part to the Southern Strategy, which your beloved Reagan used. Southern Democrats, who were more racist than egalitarian, became the Dixiecrats that helped him win the election.
They aren't blatent about it. They use code words. But Huckabee, darling of the media cause he's so damn likable playing bass in a rock and roll band, is definitely after the racist vote. What song did he play? "Sweet Home Alabama" and no matter how catchy the hook is, the history of that song makes it clear what "state's rights" really means.
And then there's his "vertical" thinking, which just sounds dumb until you find out it's a big fundie philosophy that means letting God decide as opposed to using human reason.
W. campaigned at Bob Jones University. It's not inadvertent. It's not accidental. It is fully intentional as a message to racists.
My husband, who's still a Republican, is scared to death of Romney b/c of his stand on illegal immigrants (ship 'em back). He doesn't want to believe it either, but he has to admit that there are elements in the party that are motivated by hatred of people of color.
Google it all, b/c I'm running really late and it's my daughter's birthday. But there's no real question that race is used big time. I think traditional Republicans are horrified at the fundie wing that's taken over their party, but even Reagan was willing to use them and racists.
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Oh Please! -- Jeannine, 10:40:55 01/21/08 Mon [1]
Just for the record, I never voted for "my precious Reagan". I voted in 1980 for John Anderson and in 1984 for Mondale. I didn't become a Republican until 1998. Please let me know where to get the Super Secret Republican Code Book, I never received my copy.
I don't need to Google anything to make a point or two. Your OPINIONS (and they are just that, not facts) are certainly your right, but they are wrong.
Democrats who blame the Republicans for racism are very forgetful of where the power was in the South during segregation. And you can Dixiecrats for Reagan me all day, but the Southern Strategy is not a code for "suppress the black man" it was a strategy to take votes away from the Democrats who had been in control of southern states since Reconstruction.
The Democrats lost control in Congress after 40 years in 1994, right? This was because of Reagan's 1980 Southern Strategy? Could it be possible that with a Democrat president the country thought a change was due? After 40 freakin years? And States Rights? I guess the code book would have clued me into the fact that it means "repress the blacks". I thought it was about rights not covered in the Constitution being left to the states.
I am in no way a Huckabee fan, but him singing Sweet Home Alabama doesn't make him a racist. It is not a racist song. It, like anything else, can be interpreted anyway you want. You choose a racist meaning, ok. I don't. Maybe he is a racist. I don't know. But that song is not.
I really wish the "vast right wing conspiracy" train would leave the station.
All that being said, surely it is not the BABY's first birthday. I can't be a year already!
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Reagan most certainly used the Southern Strategy -- Caren, 07:55:50 01/22/08 Tue [1]
And I always call him something like "precious" b/c my hubby thinks Reagan was the bomb. I agree, but then we use different definitions for "bomb".
Yesterday, my FIL was insisting that Obama doesn't have a chance in hell b/c he's black. That's from his experiences as a Mexican in this society.
I grew up in Indiana, where it was 90% white. I thought racism would definitely be over by the time my generation grew up. I didn't even know Mexicans weren't white until I moved to California. It's really easier to be race-blind when you live in a homogeneous society. When you actually live in a racially mixed situation, issues come up that would be defined by some other reasoning if everyone was white, but get called on race b/c it's an obvious "othering" mechanism.
"Southern Strategy" you can google. It started when LBJ went for civil rights. That's when Democrats lost the South. No, it didn't happen all at once and yes, the same strategy that was used to elect Reagan was still used for the '94 takeover. It's not the only reason nor the only strategy, but it most definitely exists and is used.
Kevin Phillips, one of Nixon's advisors popularized the phrase: from a 1970 NYT interview:
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.
Reagan started his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, MS talking about "state's rights"--which are definitely code words for segregation. What's in Philadelphia MS? It's where three civil rights workers were murdered in 1964.
THOSE are the facts you can google. They aren't my opinion. If you want to believe that Reagan wasn't on the ball and was manipulated into talking about 'state's rights' at a site where people died for civil rights, well, we can debate that, but there's no debating that that is where he started his campaign nor that that is part of his speech.
As for "state's rights" simply meaning the Constitution? Please. If you really believe that, then you really are naive enough to believe Tony Snow's "racism is dead" speech.
Google George Wallace, the KKK, and state's rights. That's the recent history of the phrase, and if you think that white supremacists don't know what is meant or what they mean when they say it, again, that's just naive.
"Sweet Home Alabama" has lyrics about loving the Governor--That's George Wallace. And a southern man doesn't have time for Neil Young and his song protesting Wallace's attacks on civil rights for black people. It is a racist song, but it can fly under the radar for people who don't know who George Wallace was or what "state's rights" has been used for for decades.
Same with Huckabee's "vertical thinking" on his website. That's codewords for evangelicals.
They use these phrases on purpose, Jeanine. It's not accidental nor is it ignorant, though I wish to god it were.
And I brought it up b/c you didn't think the country was still racist, and my experience is very different.
And yes, the baby is now 1 year and 1 day old! Amazing!
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Re: Reagan most certainly used the Southern Strategy -- Jeannine, 11:08:12 01/22/08 Tue [1]
My point about Googling is that you can google anything and come up with whatever you want. "Sweet Home Alabama" is a good example - google Sweet Home Alabama Lyrics and you will find things that support your interpretation and mine.
You and I see things differently - no surprise there - but I am no babe in the woods. Remember that I was raised in Texas. My parents were southerners, both born before 1920. I know all about George Wallace (a democrat) - my Dad voted for him. When I went into the military - which is a huge equalizer - I grew up, learned and changed.
I never said racism is gone. I just disagree that the majority of Americans are racist. I am afraid I will never agree with you so you might as well admit I am right. LOL
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