Author:
Wade A. Tisthammer
|
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Date Posted: 02/17/04 11:32am
In reply to:
Duane
's message, "Splitting hairs..." on 02/15/04 9:17am
>>>Wade:
>
>>>>For instance, why is
>>>>stealing a candy bar from a store wrong? Because it
>>>>unfairly hurts their business. Why is that wrong?
>>>>Well...it just is.
>>>
>>>No, it's wrong because we, as a (large) group of
>>>humans, have decided it's wrong.
>>
>>What is ethics than? Does merely believing an
>>ethical statement to be true make it true? In
>>that case, was it right for Hitler and the Nazis to
>>slaughter millions of Jews (as they believed it was)?
>
>No, consensus by large group of humans does. The
>decision-making Nazis were not a large group of
>humans, as far as human societies go. And I believe
>you'd have a hard time providing sufficient evidence
>that a world-population-type large number of people in
>Germany truly believed in the rightness of the
>slaughter of Jews.
Perhaps not in the extreme sense of the Holocaust (if we define culture to instead be the majority of the nation rather than the broader sense of customary beliefs of a social group) but vicious Anti-Semitism was certainly the cultural norm. Was that right? We also have other cultures doing apparently unethical things. Was slavery right? Was oppression of minorities right? Does merely the culture believing it to be true actually make it true?
>>>There is already a clear line. Volition.
>>
>>Not that clear. A lot of people would agree on the
>>belief that gay sex between a father and his son is
>>not right even when it is consensual.
>
>Of course. And I never said it was. In fact, I made
>the point that it was NOT ok. Again, the reason being
>volition.
So consensual sex between a father and his son is not right even when consensual because of...volition? I think you need to explain yourself here. The sex here is consensual, so how is volition a reason here?
>We, as a large group of people, have arbitrarily
>selected the age of, oh, say about 18? to be the age
>of majority.
Okay, suppose the father is 38 and the boy is 18 and they have consensual sex. Is that morally okay?
>It is perfect? no. Is it arbitrary? yes. But is there
>a better way to determine volition when it comes to
>sex? Don't know. But we've decided that if I have sex
>with my 16 year old neighbor, it's rape, not
>consensual sex, no matter what.
It is consensual if the 16 year old agrees that she wants to have sex with you. Do you know what consensual means?
>>>If you are opposed to homosexual sexual relations,
>>>then you must be opposed to oral and anal sex between
>>>members of the opposite sex, in order to be
>>>biblically and legislatively consistent.
>>
>>Really? On what grounds? I never claimed that I
>>believe gay sex to be wrong merely because the
>>legislature says so. And where in the Bible does it
>>say that oral and anal sex are immoral?
>
>O.K., so why do you think gay sex is wrong? And why do
>you think anal and oral is ok? Or do you? Please
>clarify your position on the following sex acts:
>
>M+F vaginal
>M+F vaginal + contraception
>M+F/F+M oral
>M+F anal
>F+M anal (strap-on?)
I personally think consensual sex between a man and wife is morally okay. Oral and anal sex would not exactly be my choice, but I find no grounds in thinking that oral/anal sex between a consenting man and wife is morally unacceptable. You said earlier that I must be opposed to oral and anal sex between members of the opposite sex in order to be biblically consistent. Well, I ask you again: on what grounds? Where in the Bible does it prohibit those actions?
The morality of homosexual sex among the community of conservative Christians is frowned upon, at least in part, because of Biblical statements. Of course, you may not find such statements as sufficient grounds. Nonetheless, it seems that moral statements (e.g. thou shalt not kill) can be adhered to even if one is not a Christian.
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
|
Feedback: 