| Subject: Re: Futility? |
Author:
QUITTNER
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Date Posted: 05/22/02 11:53am
In reply to:
Brian
's message, "Futilty" on 05/21/02 7:16pm
>>>My mistake. I had thought that you had a rational reason backing your position. The reason seems to be: "Check it out yourself." Thank you, I have long since done that, along with tens of thousand of other people who have differing ideas. I (and they) already have many books that are not part of the Bible (in my case, the apocryphal writings, the "scriptures" claimed by the Mormons, supposedly authoritative writings from the founders of several branches of Christianity - Mary Baker Eddy, Russell, even the Scientologists - plus writings by authorities on the ancient manuscripts such as Kenyon, Adams, Metzger, the ancient fathers and scholars - such as Josephus). What is it that I have missed?<<<
..... Brian, you are to be commended that you've been reading also books that are NOT a part of the collection known as the books of the bible. Maybe you have missed these - I'm neither for nor against what these authors wrote, only to state that these are just a few examples of writings with *different* and *interesting* points of view:
BM177.M33 1989 Judaism in the First Century by Hyam Maccoby
BM620.M32 1973 Revolution in Judaea. Jesus and the Jewish Resistance by the same author
BR128.G8F69 1999 The Jesus Mysteries. Was the 'Original Jesus' a Pagan God? by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
BS2553.S24 1993 The Five Gospels. The Search for the Authentic Words of Jesus. By Robert W. Funk, Roy W. Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar
- These are just a few of the very many I have read.
>>>Since I must have missed it, could you please summarize these things you allude to that "happened before the crucifixion of Jesus" that you have the more correct understanding of.<<<
..... Summarize all I have been reading? Read the books above for a start, then, perhaps, you'll ask for another list.
>>>Very seriously, I do not know have any real understanding of what things or facts about the period prior to the crucifixion that you are talking about.<<<
..... Read and learn.
>>>I take it your participation on this board is to offer many general platitudes, but never to back up thing up with specifics. When asked a specific question - toss it off to "God".<<<
..... If you want specifics read a book on Science. Items related to religions/belief systems are NOT, cannot be proven, and are as specific as psychic phenomena.
>>>But many Christians maintain that God himself made sure the Bible was complete and sufficient. The clergy would not need to tell God to shut up, if He had already fully delivered His message.<<<
..... Many Christian denominations maintain lots of things that are not agreed upon. What is regarded as God's message is unlikely to be exactly what it said in the no longer available original version in its original language, very many years ago, and is very probably now obsolete or at least superseded by later messages from God.
>>>And, you failed to answer the part of my question about those people who lived before any post-biblical revelations were given. They are denied the knowledge that these revelations brought.<<<
..... Too bad. They don't need it now.
>>>Adhering to what Jesus wanted is exactly what the Mormons (and many other denominations) say they are doing.<<<
..... That's what they SAY. But is it REALLY what Jesus wanted? Do they live in a community as mentioned in Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-37?
>>>Also, you ramble about allowing God to continue giving information to man after the bible came into existence. The "new scriptures" are explicitly claimed to fit that condition, additional information from God that supplements the bible.<<<
..... Lots of claims are made. They may be as reliable as the prophecies by race-horse or lottery enthusiasts, politicians or economists.
>>>Why do you choose to classify them as coming from "outside sources". What differentiates an outside source from something from God?<<<
..... An outside source is outside the bible and other scriptures, "holy" or not, also an outside source does NOT include any of the clergy's pronouncements and claims.
>>>I will probably have to. I think you are incapable of
a rational defensible answer.<<<
..... If you want rational, defensible answers go and read books about Science.
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